Isn't It OK to Use Headphones Even at Low Volume?

[Bill Bauer]

I hope someone reading this asks their doctors whether a loud phone or clanking plates can change T for the worse. If you do that, please let us know the answer that you got from your doctor.

 

[glynis]

@Michael Leigh,
We will have to agree to disagree on this topic..
However If I find evidence to back up my view I will put a thread up myself on the matter.
Maybe I will put a poll up as its interesting to find out the view of members around the world.
Love glynis

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Michael Leigh,
We will have to agree to disagree on this topic..
However If I find evidence to back up my view I will put a thread up myself on the matter.
Maybe I will put a poll up as its interesting to find out the view of members around the world.
Love glynis

Indeed Glynis we agree to disagree. I want to make the following clear so there's no misunderstanding. "noise induced" tinnitus is completely different from tinnitus that wasn't caused by "loud noise" in my opinion. I have had tinnitus for many years, the same as others in this forum. I have corresponded with too many people and read many posts, where people with "noise induced" tinnitus has been made worse listening to audio through headphones at low volume. I agree, not everyone with "noise induced "tinnitus will be adversely affected. However, I don't think that they should take the risk. Should the tinnitus increase it is unlikely to reduce to it's previous level.

There is no medical doctor that can convince me that it perfectly safe for someone with "noise induced" tinnitus to use headphones at low volume, especially when such a person doesn't have the slightest idea of what it's like to live with "loud intrusive"tinnitus for even a day unlike me and many others in this forum that have endured the torment of this horrific condition when it reaches severe level. Why on earth would anyone want to risk their health in this way is beyond me.

I stress again: For people that do not have "noise induced" tinnitus they are probably safe using headphones.
Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

I hope someone reading this asks their doctors whether a loud phone or clanking plates can change T for the worse. If you do that, please let us know the answer that you got from your doctor.

Most doctors don't know anything about tinntius Bill. They know about the anatomy of the ear and how to treat it medically or surgically. These are two different things.

 

[glynis]

My views are my views .
I have counciled many people and spoke to many people whom tinnitus is a part of their job.
I only ask members to look in to my views and ask whom they like about it and like most members on here will make their own mind up and take everyones views as equally important.
We are all different in so many ways and can be due to -
How we got tinnitus
Medications
Virus and infection
Acustic nuroma
Stress and anxiety
Ear conditions like menieres
Hyperacusis
And a list as long as my arm.

One person can not push their views on others as its the right answer as bad as their tinnitus as been.
I have been to hell and back but thats my own tinnitus journey .
Forums have many members and should value their views and not try to intimidate their views .
Love glynis

 

[Michael Leigh]

With respect @glynis You do not have noise induced tinnitus your tinnitus was caused by Meniere's. My views and advice that I'm giving here is to people that have suffered tinnitus "by exposure" to loud noise. Just as I may never know what it's like to experience Meniere's, you don't know the effects of "noise induced" tinnitus or hyperucusis which has resulted from it. Isn't it quite strange: most of the people on this thread that agree with me their tinnitus was caused by "exposure to loud" noise.

Michael

 

[glynis]

I stick by my views and will back it up if I find info on it.
Im sure the authour has a rough idea what to ask his ENT and audiologist.
Love glynis

 

[Michael Leigh]

This is the reason why there are so many tinnitus forums on the Internet because there are medical professionals giving advice about a condtion that they know very little about. I say again, they know about the anatomy of the ear and can treat it medically and surgically and this they do well. However, when it comes to tinnitus many know little about it. Just read the many posts in this forum which will support what I'm saying. If they were knowledgeble in tinnitus as they were about the anatomy of the ear there probably would be no need for this forum.

Michael

 

[glynis]

I agree to dissagree....
Its about headphone use and our views are equally important.
Love glynis

 

[Michael Leigh]

Headphone use yes but with one difference @glynis Headphone use with tinnitus caused by exposure to loud noise which is what the author of this thread is suffering from.

I have said my piece and shan't be commenting further about this.

Michael

 

[glynis]

@Michael Leigh,
As I said ,playing white noise on low volume for people whom can not afford white noise generators or hearing aids around the world then using earplugs on the lowest volume for a short time im my opinion is ok and I have been advised about this by two professionals.
We have to agree to dissagree about it !
Love glynis

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Michael Leigh,
As I said ,playing white noise on low volume for people whom can not afford white noise generators or hearing aids around the world then using earplugs on the lowest volume for a short time im my opinion is ok and I have been advised about this by two professionals.
We have to agree to dissagree about it !
Love glynis

I hear you @glynis please ask the proffesionals that you refer to if they have "noise induced" tinnitus and for how long? I am not saying one shouldn't listen to white noise through headphones if they have "noise induced" tinnitus, it is somethingI don't recommend as it's unregulated. Using white noise in this way is not advisable because the tinnitus will usually be masked or covered up. I have corresponded with people that have tried this method of therapy and it has made things worse. This is not to say everyone will be adversely affected. I feel it would be better to use a stand alone sound machine or external sound source instead of playing a sound directly into the ear if they don't have white noise generators.

Michael

 

[Tinker Bell]

I may start a thread on this, but does the cause of tinnitus matter in terms of avoiding additional damage?

Is hair cell damage different if it caused by a virus, acoustic trauma or ototoxic drugs? Is there any actual data on this versus anecdotal references?

Are not all of us — regardless of how we acquired tinnitus — susceptible to additional damage from loud noises, viruses and ototoxic medications?

Every single ear specialist and audiologist I have seen has told me that I need to be cautious of loud noise and ototoxic medications. Neither caused my tinnitus.

 

[glynis]

@Michael Leigh ,
Like I said we will have to agree to dissagree.
Even the BTA sell sleep phones in their shop to play music through the night like white noise.
This topic can go on for ever and my views wont change.
Forums are like that so the authour can take on board peoples views.
Love glynis

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Michael Leigh ,
Like I said we will have to agree to dissagree.
Even the BTA sell sleep phones in their shop to play music through the night like white noise.
This topic can go on for ever and my views wont change.
Forums are like that so the authour can take on board peoples views.
Love glynis

Indeed @glynis the BTA do sell sleep phones and many people use them without any adverse effects. However, you will find those that have "noise induced" tinnitus quickly stop using them. I shall end now for we are on two different wave lengths. Noise induced tinnitus, is different from tinnitus that wasn't caused by loud noise.
All the best
Michael

 

[glynis]

I would like to see the evidence to back that up !!!
Love glynis

 

[Tinker Bell]

How is noise induced tinnitus different from other kinds of tinnitus?

 

[Rick Austin]

well this is all bad news since listening to music like that is very important to me. Also important, is that i have to try and mix/master the music i make, and my laptop isn't good enough, so i need headphones. i guess i can try to stop recreationally.

I also hope that one day we will without a doubt understand tinnitus, it's causes, etc. it ain't good when everyone disagrees about a condition like this

 

[Jazzer]

This is the reason why there are so many tinnitus forums on the Internet because there are medical professionals giving advice about a condtion that they know very little about. I say again, they know about the anatomy of the ear and can treat it medically and surgically and this they do well. However, when it comes to tinnitus many know little about it. Just read the many posts in this forum which will support what I'm saying. If they were knowledgeble in tinnitus as they were about the anatomy of the ear there probably would be no need for this forum.

Michael

I absolutely agree Michael.
When you unfortunately have the experience of noise induced Tinnitus, you can spot comforting twaddle from audiologists and Tinnitus "specialists ??" a mile off.

 

[Tinker Bell]

I absolutely agree Michael.
When you unfortunately have the experience of noise induced Tinnitus, you can spot comforting twaddle from audiologists and Tinnitus "specialists ??" a mile off.

Perhaps you can clarify for me. How is noise induced tinnitus different from other forms of tinnitus?

 

[linearb]

It maybe basic physics linerb but when someone has "noise induced" tinnitus and uses headphones even at low volume all that science goes out the window. The amount of people that have contacted me over the years that have followed the wrong advice given to them by ENT doctors and other health professionals, saying it's okay to use headphones at low volume. Now they are suffering.

if they damaged themselves, then it wasn't a "low volume". This can be deceptive.

The neat thing about physics is that it isn't situational or subject to emotional bias or the whims of the moment: if a noise is damaging, then it is. If it's not, it's not.

 

[Bill Bauer]

"Science" involves observations. Here is one, the second post in this thread

Using headphones at low volume is how I got tinnitus. All volumes on sound mixer, programs, and headphones were always at about 5%...and I am still here!

Here is another observation

I didn't think listening to headphones would affect my ears since I never exceeded 25% of max volume (usually stayed between 10%-15%). I would use them at the gym to help mask my T and they offered some protection against loud noises at the gym. After about 3 months my T was so bothersome and I couldn't pinpoint the cause since I also work with kids and it can get loud at times. I stopped using the headphones and now use earplugs at the gym and the T did subside.

Michael states that people he talked to provided more observations consistent with the hypothesis that it is not completely safe to use headphones, no matter how quiet one sets the volume to.

if they damaged themselves, then it wasn't a "low volume".

Our first observation involved setting the volume at 5%. You are right, 5% must have been too loud, if it lead to damage. So there is no such thing as "low volume" for someone who already has tinnitus.

 

[GregCA]

Every single ear specialist and audiologist I have seen has told me that I need to be cautious of loud noise and ototoxic medications. Neither caused my tinnitus.

Same here.

Is hair cell damage different if it caused by a virus, acoustic trauma or ototoxic drugs? Is there any actual data on this versus anecdotal references?

I don't have all the data for all the forms of damage, but the explanation I was given for my sensorineural losses is that the Otosclerosis bone remodeling process releases enzymes in the inner ear which are toxic to the hair cells. It is supported by a paragraph from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otosclerosis :

The mechanism of sensorineural hearing loss in otosclerosis is less well understood. It may result from direct injury to the cochlea and spiral ligament from the lytic process or from release of proteolytic enzymes into the cochlea. There are certainly a few well documented instances of sclerotic lesions directly obliterating sensory structures within the cochlea and spiral ligament, which have been photographed and reported post-mortem. Other supporting data includes a consistent loss of cochlear hair cells in patients with otosclerosis; these cells being the chief sensory organs of sound reception. A suggested mechanism for this is the release of hydrolytic enzymes into the inner ear structures by the spongiotic lesions.​

So it looks like SNHL from otosclerosis "looks similar" to other causes of hearing loss that destroy some hair cells in the cochlea (not unlike noise induced HL). There may be differences of course, but there's at least that in common.

 

[Alue]

I may start a thread on this, but does the cause of tinnitus matter in terms of avoiding additional damage?

Is hair cell damage different if it caused by a virus, acoustic trauma or ototoxic drugs? Is there any actual data on this versus anecdotal references?

Are not all of us — regardless of how we acquired tinnitus — susceptible to additional damage from loud noises, viruses and ototoxic medications?

Every single ear specialist and audiologist I have seen has told me that I need to be cautious of loud noise and ototoxic medications. Neither caused my tinnitus.

While I disagree with Michael on a number of points, there may be a lot of different types of tinnitus that we have yet to identify or differentiate. (This is paraphrasing what a neurotologist that works in tinnitus research told me.)
Is it the hair cells that are damaged, is it the synapses, or is it both? The etiologies may matter to some degree, but I don't think anyone knows at this time. I don't think any one type of tinnitus or one etiology is objectively worse than the other, and avoiding adding insult to injury is probably a good idea for everyone with hearing damage.

I have even less information about this, but I suspect the same is true for hyperacusis.

 

[Tinker Bell]

While I disagree with Michael on a number of points, there may be a lot of different types of tinnitus that we have yet to identify or differentiate. (This is paraphrasing what a neurotologist that works in tinnitus research told me.)
Is it the hair cells that are damaged, is it the synapses, or is it both? The etiologies may matter to some degree, but I don't think anyone knows at this time. I don't think any one type of tinnitus or one etiology is objectively worse than the other, and avoiding adding insult to injury is probably a good idea for everyone with hearing damage.

I have even less information about this, but I suspect the same is true for hyperacusis.

Sorry if I am muddling it — looooooong day so I am exhausted — but to clarify, at this point know one truly 100 percent knows if noise-induced tinnitus is different?

I could see tinnitus varying based on whether hair cells are damaged or synapses. Perhaps tinnitus with measurable hearing loss is different from tinnitus without hearing loss. And I think tinnitus with hyperacusis is different, too.

I agree, too, in that I do not think one cause leads to worse tinnitus than other causes.

 

[Alue]

Sorry if I am muddling it — looooooong day so I am exhausted — but to clarify, at this point know one truly 100 percent knows if noise-induced tinnitus is different?

I could see tinnitus varying based on whether hair cells are damaged or synapses. Perhaps tinnitus with measurable hearing loss is different from tinnitus without hearing loss. And I think tinnitus with hyperacusis is different, too.

I agree, too, in that I do not think one cause leads to worse tinnitus than other causes.

I don't think anyone knows for sure. I just think our knowledge about tinnitus as a whole is very limited.

It's okay. It's been a loooooong day for me too, and my brain is even more fried than usual.

 

[Tinker Bell]

I don't think anyone knows for sure. I just think our knowledge about tinnitus as a whole is very limited.

It's okay. It's been a loooooong day for me too, and my brain is even more fried than usual.

It is stated often on TT as if it is a fact, but it really isn't which is why it's confusing.

 

[Bill Bauer]

It is stated often on TT as if it is a fact, but it really isn't which is why it's confusing.

I would imagine that the pattern of inner ear hair damage might be different for acoustic trauma patients and patients who got T due to ototoxicity. The former lose the hairs that correspond to higher frequencies. I am not sure why that would be the case for the latter.

 

[GregCA]

I don't think anyone knows for sure. I just think our knowledge about tinnitus as a whole is very limited.

It's important to distinguish "I realize that we don't know" from "I know and it's <insert assertion here>". The latter is what is gathering some questioning.
Realizing that we don't know is not just fine, it's actually quite healthy for deductive reasoning and progress.
Asserting that we know when we don't takes us down a really poor cognitive path, and leads to learning impermeability.

 

[Alue]

It's important to distinguish "I realize that we don't know" from "I know and it's <insert assertion here>". The latter is what is gathering some questioning.
Realizing that we don't know is not just fine, it's actually quite healthy for deductive reasoning and progress.
Asserting that we know when we don't takes us down a really poor cognitive path, and leads to learning impermeability.

O' I agree. That's the point I'm getting at. I was more addressing Tinker Bell's question and not Michael's statements. I don't waste my time arguing with certain people.

I also agree with linearb's statement. While there are a lot of things we don't understand about tinnitus, there isn't much mystery about how sound pressure works.