Ketamine Relieves Depression by Restoring Brain Connections

#32
Deep said:
30mg should be suitable per dose so I can still function!
Click to expand...

Deep,

Let's hope so--for your own health as well as the interests of science! :)

BTW, I like your avatar. You don't see many MC Escher prints as avatars.
 
#33
Recently my hyperacusis got bad again and my tinnitus was flaring - I was kinda desperate for relief.
About 4 days ago I took 5 doses ketamine (30mg every 30 mins).

Once again ketamine performed its strange wonders on me. When on the ketamine there is almost no change, I may even perceive the tinnitus to be a little louder.

It's when the drug wears off that I find relief. The next day hyperacusis was diminished by 95% and ringing decreased 50%.

Don't ask me why and how this works for me.
 
#35
I wouldn't play around with it. Long term can lead to kidney damage and mentally I am not sure.

Sounds kind of wreckless but everyone is different, for some in moderation safe - for others not.

I believe it is used for open heart surgery!
 
#39
Ketamine seems to come up at least once a year, every year for the past few years. Nothing new though. Same exact thing every time - it may relieve tinnitus and PTSD.....hmmm can we get some new studies on this or we going to hear the same thing October 2016 in a different article? These internet news magazines and sites rehash stuff over and over.
 
#41
Ketamine
image.jpeg
 
#42
Isn't Ketamine used on horses?.

In any case if they successfully target both T and PTSD i would run trough the streets butt naked screaming " I was the man on the grassy knoll "
 
#43
As @erik said...this keeps coming around. See below for my experience with it in a "fake-out" IV dose...

Way back in 2013:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-here-but-not-to-tinnitus-hyperacusis-%E2%80%94-did-a-ketamine-trial.2867/

Way back in May 2014:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/ketamine-revisited-via-tramadol.4751/

Then in December I posted this threadhttps://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads...nnitus-hyperacusis-did-a-ketamine-trial.2867/as had tried a nasal spray absorption of IV grade Ketamine c/o my doc. who came up with the idea. [Incidentally I have no idea why it would be a recreational drug as it just plastered me severely and had no noticeable mood enhancement except the hangover!].

Well I am bringing it up again, as I saw my doc again last week and he was still keen to have me try it "properly". By that he meant getting "lights out" all the way. Full dose, IV, and getting knocked out for a few hours. To his way of thinking any potential "brain reset" would only happen if unconscious, none of this zombiefied drunkeness equivalent. I said I would think about it.

Summary is...For this to work you seemingly have to have it IV and get "knocked out".

The python in the pancake is, that Ketamine is used widely around here on OR's (operating rooms - I have doc friends who tell me) and surely many, many surgery patients over the years must have had tinnitus (the approximately 20% of the population model)...so how come we don't have scads of reports of people waking up and saying: "Hey doc you replaced the wrong knee, but the ringing in my ears is gone!"

Zimichael
 
#44
I've spent a lot of time reading drug-user forums. I have seen many, many accounts of Ketamine and related drugs like MXE causing or exacerbating tinnitus, and I don't think I've ever seen an account of someone being cured by it.

I am still curious. If IV ket was something you could just buy at the local pharmacy over-the-counter, I'd probably take it out for a test drive... from experiences long ago, I know that it is A Most Interesting Compound.
 
#45
SWIM bumped a few lines and it did nothing other then make SWIM feel drunk for around 15-30 minutes. SWIM will try again soon but SWIM doubts it will do anything in the long run. Alcohol actually makes SWIMS T way more quiet and lasts way longer and is way cheaper.
 
#46
Danger! Warning! There is a research chemical called MXE that is often sold as ketamine on the street. MXE causes tinnitus very frequently!

I heard a story about a guy that wanted to try ketamine for his depression, but he lacked the large sum of money needed to get it at the ketamine infusion clinics.

One day a townie buddy of his stopped by and said he could get special k. The guy was stoked! He would save thousands and be happy again like he was as a kid.

He had never done ketamine before. The first night he tried it he had a crazy experience that lasted hours.

The next day it worked! He was so happy.

A few days later he decided to try again. This time he got very anxious, and in a dissociated state he had a few glasses of wine to calm down. The alcohol made him very dysphoric and he passed out on his bed.

When he woke up the world was different. He felt depersonalized and he had this strange ringing in his ears. He was also more depressed than he ever was in his whole life.

He had to deal with tinnitus onset while chemically super depressed.

He finally put it together based on the duration of the trip that he was sold MXE, or methoxetamine, and not ketamine.

MXE is a longer acting, and it seems potentially neurotoxic analogue of ketamine.

The cruel irony of this tragic tale is that he sought out ketamine to cure depression, and got tinnitus and became suicidal.
 
#48
@Atlantis

I learned this after reading about that guys experience:

I don't know how expensive ketamine is, but to get it from a doctor at a ketamine clinic is 400+ per dose. They give someone 6 doses and then one a month or so.

There are regent tests that can tell real ketamine from other analogues. Apparently there are dozens made as research chemicals.

A mandelin reagent test can identify ketamine.

The conclusion the guy had from his bad experience was that his brain was not something to be cheap with. He should have saved up for the ketamine clinic.

Even if he had gotten real ketamine, a person on ketamine gets dissociated and can make really bad decisions.

But in the interest of harm reduction, he would have been ok if he tested with a mandelin reagent and had a friend there to accompany him and make sure he didn't redose, or drink or do something stupid.
 
#50
#51
i can see why, went to the dentist today to get a filling, had local anaesthetic on the same side as my T, that shit went right down, until it wore off ofcourse.
 
#53
#54
I see that AM-101 has been having success. It is not cleared and cannot be reached or taken at this time which leaves the person with the 3 month window (me) screwed. I don't care if it will be cleared in a year or 2 I need it now. It will only help with the onset of T as soon as possible. While the Tinnitus originates in the inner ear and hasn't moved to the head where nothing will help at that point.

I understand the rationale for treatment assumes that tinnitus arises from excess glutamatergic activity through NMDA receptors and/or hyperactivity resulting from the loss of GABA-mediated inhibition

So Ketamine is an NMDA like AM-101. My time is now not in 10 years once all their trials are done with and I have chronic Tinnitus for the rest of my life.

Is there anyway I could convince a doctor to give me Ketamine for this? I do not want T my whole life. MY 3 MONTH WINDOW is NOW.

Help? Thoughts? Suggestions?

Also how do SSRI help T? (Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors)


Here is the study that proves it works in a 3 month window.

Abstract

Chronic tinnitus has no broadly effective treatment. Identification of specific markers for tinnitus should facilitate the development of effective therapeutics. Recently it was shown that glutamatergic blockade in the cerebellar paraflocculus, using an antagonist cocktail was successful in reducing chronic tinnitus. The present experiment examined the effect of selective N-methyl d-aspartate (NMDA) receptor blockade on tinnitus and associated spontaneous brain activity in a rat model. The NMDA antagonist, D(−)-2-amino-5-phosphonopentanoic acid (D-AP5) (0.5 mM), was continuously infused for 2 weeks directly to the ipsilateral paraflocculus of rats with tinnitus induced months prior by unilateral noise exposure. Treated rats were compared to untreated normal controls without tinnitus, and to untreated positive controls with tinnitus. D-AP5 significantly decreased tinnitus within three days of beginning treatment, and continued to significantly reduce tinnitus throughout the course of treatment and for 23 days thereafter, at which time testing was halted. At the conclusion of psychophysical testing, neural activity was assessed using manganese enhanced magnetic resonance imaging (MEMRI). In agreement with previous research, untreated animals with chronic tinnitus showed significantly elevated bilateral activity in their paraflocculus and brainstem cochlear nuclei, but not in mid or forebrain structures. In contrast, D-AP5-treated-tinnitus animals showed significantly less bilateral parafloccular and dorsal cochlear nucleus activity, as well as significantly less contralateral ventral cochlear nucleus activity. It was concluded that NMDA-mediated glutamatergic transmission in the paraflocculus appears to be a necessary component of chronic noise-induced tinnitus in a rat model. Additionally, it was confirmed that in this model, elevated spontaneous activity in the cerebellar paraflocculus and auditory brainstem is associated with tinnitus.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0077674
 
#55
Michael Sullivan said:
I see that AM-101 has been having success. It is not cleared and cannot be reached or taken at this time which leaves the person with the 3 month window (me) screwed. I don't care if it will be cleared in a year or 2 I need it now. It will only help with the onset of T as soon as possible. While the Tinnitus originates in the inner ear and hasn't moved to the head where nothing will help at that point.

I understand the rationale for treatment assumes that tinnitus arises from excess glutamatergic activity through NMDA receptors and/or hyperactivity resulting from the loss of GABA-mediated inhibition

So Ketamine is an NMDA like AM-101. My time is now not in 10 years once all their trials are done with and I have chronic Tinnitus for the rest of my life.

Is there anyway I could convince a doctor to give me Ketamine for this? I do not want T my whole life. MY 3 MONTH WINDOW is NOW.

Help? Thoughts? Suggestions?

Also how do SSRI help T? (Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors)


Here is the study that proves it works in a 3 month window.

Abstract

Chronic tinnitus has no broadly effective treatment. Identification of specific markers for tinnitus should facilitate the development of effective therapeutics. Recently it was shown that glutamatergic blockade in the cerebellar paraflocculus, using an antagonist cocktail was successful in reducing chronic tinnitus. The present experiment examined the effect of selective N-methyl d-aspartate (NMDA) receptor blockade on tinnitus and associated spontaneous brain activity in a rat model. The NMDA antagonist, D(−)-2-amino-5-phosphonopentanoic acid (D-AP5) (0.5 mM), was continuously infused for 2 weeks directly to the ipsilateral paraflocculus of rats with tinnitus induced months prior by unilateral noise exposure. Treated rats were compared to untreated normal controls without tinnitus, and to untreated positive controls with tinnitus. D-AP5 significantly decreased tinnitus within three days of beginning treatment, and continued to significantly reduce tinnitus throughout the course of treatment and for 23 days thereafter, at which time testing was halted. At the conclusion of psychophysical testing, neural activity was assessed using manganese enhanced magnetic resonance imaging (MEMRI). In agreement with previous research, untreated animals with chronic tinnitus showed significantly elevated bilateral activity in their paraflocculus and brainstem cochlear nuclei, but not in mid or forebrain structures. In contrast, D-AP5-treated-tinnitus animals showed significantly less bilateral parafloccular and dorsal cochlear nucleus activity, as well as significantly less contralateral ventral cochlear nucleus activity. It was concluded that NMDA-mediated glutamatergic transmission in the paraflocculus appears to be a necessary component of chronic noise-induced tinnitus in a rat model. Additionally, it was confirmed that in this model, elevated spontaneous activity in the cerebellar paraflocculus and auditory brainstem is associated with tinnitus.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0077674
Click to expand...
I understand what you feel and think, as I was there myself. But as far as I know there is zero proof that there is a window of 3 months (or any time frame) before it gets "centralized" in the brain. It's just theories and no one actually knows how it works. That's what you learn when you read more and more research; that there is very little knowledge about T and that there is a vast number of sub groups of T which makes it even more complicated.

Even if you get the treatment there is no guarantee what so ever that it will work, that's the truth. The test on animals is isolated to that animal species and it can not be translated to that it will work on humans. Please correct me anyone if I'm wrong.

My personal belief is that if the "error/damage" that causes T is fixed somehow, the T will resolve itself, regardless of how long you've had it.

I truly hope you will get better!
 
#56
And another thing. I have read tons and tons of research, studies and info about T the last 18 months. To summarize there is no single treatment that is even close to solid. There are antidepressant, AM-101, hearing aids, ketamine, MDMA, sound treatments, diets, lifestyle changes, stress reduction, Trobalt, stem cells, LLLT, electro and magnetism, brain stimulation and so and so on. Every study says that it works for some and not for others. But when people try the treatments in real life they rarely work. Some people "try it all" and still no result, that's why I wouldn't stress too much on missing out on a specific treatment. The cold and hard fact is that we know very little. The more you get to know about T, the more you realize how little we actually know. Sorry for the bad news but it's better to know how it is than having false hopes
 
#57
PatrickG said:
I understand what you feel and think, as I was there myself. But as far as I know there is zero proof that there is a window of 3 months (or any time frame) before it gets "centralized" in the brain. It's just theories and no one actually knows how it works. That's what you learn when you read more and more research; that there is very little knowledge about T and that there is a vast number of sub groups of T which makes it even more complicated.

Even if you get the treatment there is no guarantee what so ever that it will work, that's the truth. The test on animals is isolated to that animal species and it can not be translated to that it will work on humans. Please correct me anyone if I'm wrong.

My personal belief is that if the "error/damage" that causes T is fixed somehow, the T will resolve itself, regardless of how long you've had it.

I truly hope you will get better!
Click to expand...

My Tinnitus is pretty mild Id say 2.5/10. Its been a while though. I haven't gone out or done anything with friends in along time. I just want this to go away, but it might not apparently. I'm not depressed anymore but my social life has gone away completely since having it. I'm afraid of loud sounds and try to stay away from anything loud. I don't think Ill go to any parties ever again or concerts. Even with hearing protection its scary. And I'm not gonna wear earplugs and try to pick up girls at a party lol.

Thank you, I hope yours gets better as well!
 
#58
Michael Sullivan said:
My Tinnitus is pretty mild Id say 2.5/10. Its been a while though. I haven't gone out or done anything with friends in along time. I just want this to go away, but it might not apparently. I'm not depressed anymore but my social life has gone away completely since having it. I'm afraid of loud sounds and try to stay away from anything loud. I don't think Ill go to any parties ever again or concerts. Even with hearing protection its scary. And I'm not gonna wear earplugs and try to pick up girls at a party lol.

Thank you, I hope yours gets better as well!
Click to expand...
You are right that you should protect your ears from now on. But don't think it will be in the way of living a good life and picking up girls. If you think that ear plugs will be in the way of that, then you are completely wrong my friend and you should work on your self image. I have severe T and roller coaster depression and pick up girls on a consitent basis. Believe in yourself :)
 
#59
PatrickG said:
You are right that you should protect your ears from now on. But don't think it will be in the way of living a good life and picking up girls. If you think that ear plugs will be in the way of that, then you are completely wrong my friend and you should work on your self image. I have severe T and roller coaster depression and pick up girls on a consitent basis. Believe in yourself :)
Click to expand...

Thank man! Do you go to clubs at all even with earplugs? Because even with earplugs at nightclubs sometimes get to 115db so its still risky and people with earplugs can still have a temporary threshold shift.

Also, what have you done to cope with it are you not afraid of loud noises at all or don't have a problem going through daily activities?

Has anything brought your T down specifically? I don't know when I'm going to drink again but I don't want it to affect my T, but I've read some people it makes their T diminish temporarily.
 
#60
Michael Sullivan said:
Thank man! Do you go to clubs at all even with earplugs? Because even with earplugs at nightclubs sometimes get to 115db so its still risky and people with earplugs can still have a temporary threshold shift.

Also, what have you done to cope with it are you not afraid of loud noises at all or don't have a problem going through daily activities?

Has anything brought your T down specifically? I don't know when I'm going to drink again but I don't want it to affect my T, but I've read some people it makes their T diminish temporarily.
Click to expand...
I stay away from louds clubs but do go to bars (with custom ear plugs). I don't have T from loud noises but have close friends who do, and they always wear ear plugs. I have bartender friends who don't have T but who also always wear ear plugs. It's just common sense to protect your hearing. There is nothing cool about damaging your hearing, like many people who go to rave or heavy metal concerts seem to believe. Give your ears love! Girls sometimes ask me why I have ear plugs, and I say something like "my ears are the opening to my heart, and it's sensitive and needs to be protected" and they usually laugh and couldn't care less about the ear plugs. So don't worry about that bit :)

My T isn't affected by anything as far as I know. Tried and tracked things like sleep, diet, stress etc but it's living its own life. Always changing, always several noises, always a pain in the ass. Never stable or consistent.

To summarize, you MUST protect your hearing and stay away from loud places (loud clubs, concerts, headphones etc) but don't let the T control you. Live your life and invest in developing yourself.
 

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