Kinetic in Poland Claim They Reduce Tinnitus

[Fabrikat]

Unfortunately I was not qualified for the treatment by the doctor because I hear my T in my head and not ears. According to her this disqualifies me from the treatment. I'm planning to do HBOT instead.

I'm sorry to hear that. I was looking forward to hearing your report about this therapy. If they only treat
ear tinnitus as opposed to head tinnitus, I presume they're only interested in new, acute cases. Good luck with HBOT!

 

[Sonic17]

It was not rTMS, they did direct magnetic stimulation of the ear, while rTMS is about stimulation through the skull. But indeed in Poland there are clinics that already do rTMS to treat tinnitus.

There is a clinic in Montreal Canada that offers electrical cranial stimulation for Tinnitus. Has anyone on the forum ever tried it?

 

[Fabrikat]

There is a clinic in Montreal Canada that offers electrical cranial stimulation for Tinnitus. Has anyone on the forum ever tried it?

Hi Angela! That sounds like rTMS to me. There are quite a few people on TT that have tried it. @Melike is the last person I read who had the treatment, alas not successfully. However, she says she has friends who have been treated successfully with rTMS. It seems a bit hit or miss at this stage, unfortunately, though work is ongoing in an effort to perfect it's protocols.

The kind of electrical stimulation I was hoping Mentos was going to try is a bit different. It involves electrodes in the ear canal filled with saline and applying a mild electrical charge. Believe it or not, there is one paper attesting to its efficacy, but I don't know scientific the testing process was. Sounds a bit Frankenstein-ish, doesn't it? I wonder if Frankenstein's creation suffered from tinnitus, what with all those thunderbolts and electricity hitting his poor brain?

 

[Melike]

Hi Angela! That sounds like rTMS to me. There are quite a few people on TT that have tried it. @Melike is the last person I read who had the treatment, alas not successfully. However, she says she has friends who have been treated successfully with rTMS. It seems a bit hit or miss at this stage, unfortunately, though work is ongoing in an effort to perfect it's protocols.

The kind of electrical stimulation I was hoping Mentos was going to try is a bit different. It involves electrodes in the ear canal filled with saline and applying a mild electrical charge. Believe it or not, there is one paper attesting to its efficacy, but I don't know scientific the testing process was. Sounds a bit Frankenstein-ish, doesn't it? I wonder if Frankenstein's creation suffered from tinnitus, what with all those thunderbolts and electricity hitting his poor brain?

rTMS is a form of magnetic stimulation, so there should be a difference since it is 'electrical' stimulation. But, I am not sure how they differ, frankly.

 

[Paulmanlike]

rTMS is a form of magnetic stimulation, so there should be a difference since it is 'electrical' stimulation. But, I am not sure how they differ, frankly.

What was your experience with rTMS? And how much relief did your friends get? Did it last?

 

[Melike]

What was your experience with rTMS? And how much relief did your friends get? Did it last?

I experienced 2 days of near silence, %98, but it didn't last long.

Some of the people I know who had rTMS sessions, got %80-90 volume reduction. I had a conversation with one of them recently, he said he is having a hard time hearing it even if tries really hard. They also claim that they have met with people at the clinic whose T is completely gone after the treatment, but I haven't met one of them personally.

 

[Paulmanlike]

I experienced 2 days of near silence, %98, but it didn't last long.

Some of the people I know who had rTMS sessions, got %80-90 volume reduction. I had a conversation with one of them recently, he said he is having a hard time hearing it even if tries really hard. They also claim that they have met with people at the clinic whose T is completely gone after the treatment, but I haven't met one of them personally.

Did your friends results last? And is it expensive?

 

[Melike]

Did your friends results last? And is it expensive?

Yes. Not that expensive in Turkey.

 

[Sonic17]

However, she says she has friends who have been treated successfully with rTMS.

I am considering going for this treatment in Montreal. It is just that they want you to stay there for three weeks, which is not so easy for me to do. Plus I am a little weary of it making my Tinnitus worse.

 

[Sonic17]

Some of the people I know who had rTMS sessions, got %80-90 volume reduction

Was this at the Montreal Clinic? Does it make a difference how they got their Tinnitus as to whether the rTMS treatment worked for them or not?

 

[Sonic17]

@Melike Okay, I just noticed you were from Turkey, so I know you were not at the Montreal Clinic in Canada. Just ignore that question I posted to you.

 

[Sonic17]

electricity hitting his poor brain?

Maybe this was his treatment for Tinnitus, kind of sounds the same as tRMS?

 

[Kolisar]

Did you manage to lift up your serotonin the the level required to start the therapy?

I just read a report suggesting that serotonin may worsen tinnitus.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-08-serotonin-worsen-tinnitus.html#nRlv

 

[Fabrikat]

I am considering going for this treatment in Montreal. It is just that they want you to stay there for three weeks, which is not so easy for me to do. Plus I am a little weary of it making my Tinnitus worse.

There is a thread somewhere on TT dedicated to rTMS, which you could read, with links to some of the studies done to date. Melike also said that they told her that if the method worked on an individual, it generally became evident after a couple of sessions, though they like to conduct the full number of sessions. Maybe you could break it up. Three weeks is a long time to commit to. And probably pricey too!

 

[Nick07]

I just read a report suggesting that serotonin may worsen tinnitus.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-08-serotonin-worsen-tinnitus.html#nRlv

I wouldn't take it conclusively. The study was on mice not people, so there's no way of knowing conclusively whether their tinnitus worsened if the mice even had tinnitus. To be honest I have to wonder about studies I initially took at face value that involved mice having tinnitus. The guys at the Poland clinic apparently told someone on here raising serotonin levels reduces tinnitus and when he did he had his tinnitus reduced.

 

[Kolisar]

I wouldn't take it conclusively. The study was on mice not people, so there's no way of knowing conclusively whether their tinnitus worsened if the mice even had tinnitus.

I agree. I just wanted to post it because it may be applicable to humans and I wanted anyone considering this treatment to have as much information as possible, especially if one of the instructions being given for this particular treatment could, potentially, cause more damage.

 

[Sonic17]

@Fabrikat
I will look for the thread on rTMS, thank you. Yes, the three weeks is a long time commitment, breaking it up would be better, I agree. If I knew someone in Montreal to stay with, it would be helpful, but unfortunately I do not know anyone there. The clinic offers rTMS, counselling, maskers for three weeks for just a little over $6, 000.00. I am not sure if the price of the maskers or hearing aids are included, but probably not seeing as hearing aids can be just as expensive as this. They do not use neuromonics, but something similar to this. I feel if it works it is well worth the cost. They do an initial consultation for about 850.00, perhaps after this consultation they would be able to determine whether or not u r a candidate for their therapy. I am seeing another EMT at the end of September, I will ask his opinion and go from there.

 

[Fabrikat]

@Sonic17, keep us posted if you do end up going. Melike had her therapy over 12 days only and cost came in under $2000 US. If you ever wanted an excuse to go to Turkey for a holiday, that could be it. Sounds like it would be cheaper flying there than 21 days in Montreal, I suspect.

 

[Paulmanlike]

A clinic in Harley Street in London offers rTMS for tinnitus as well as depression (it's NICE approved for depression/still experimental on tinnitus).

They say every report so far has indicated positive results.

I hear a few stories of it potentially making it worse.

Talking to a Professor on here, much work needs to be done on the protocols for it to become a standard treatment for tinnitus.

Please let us know how you get on, I considered the therapy in London myself, but it's probably big bucks for no guaranteed result.

 

[Snake]

A clinic in Harley Street in London offers rTMS for tinnitus as well as depression (it's NICE approved for depression/still experimental on tinnitus).

They say every report so far has indicated positive results.

I hear a few stories of it potentially making it worse.

Talking to a Professor on here, much work needs to be done on the protocols for it to become a standard treatment for tinnitus.

Please let us know how you get on, I considered the therapy in London myself, but it's probably big bucks for no guaranteed result.

I tried rTMS at Kinetic, it didn't do anything to my Tinnitus. But maybe there is a different protocol in London clinic?

 

[Sonic17]

@Fabrikat Yes, Fabrikat, i will keep you informed if I go. I am somewhat of a chicken though, so it will not be anytime soon. Although Turkey is less expensive (thank you for the information) it is WAY too far from home for me. Although I do hear it is beautiful.

 

[Sonic17]

@Paulmanlike
Thank you for the information. Good to know it has had positive results, sounds promising.

 

[Contrast]

These guys over at The Kinetic Center of audiology claim to have treatments for tinnitus, I'm skeptical and will be investigating this.

They also claim to have treatments for hidden hearing loss as well as other conditions like schizophrenia. We need to investigate this very shady company promising medical miracles.

They also make lots of typographical errors like myself. Discuss here what you think about their services.

 

[Contrast]

It's a combination of sound therapy, special diet and physical excersizes to assure propoer level of BDNF protein which they believe is crucial for adaptation of damaged synapses in inner ear. They belive it's a synaptic damage which causes Tinnitus in my case (noise exposure at rock concert). It's a bit similar theory that Charles Libermann has about cochlear synaptopathy and hidden hearing loss.

Yes, but it's a bunch of quacks using his theory for their own profit. Quacks will familiarize themselves with real science to make their quackery look genuine.

We need to be skeptical of this diet, exercise, all natural supplements = cure logic.

 

[JohnAdams]

Looks interesting but the website is rather devoid of much detail apart from saying they use "technology"

You luddite!

 

[JohnAdams]

If they aren't injecting BDNF right into your ear then I'm calling BS on paying them for anything. If they know how diet and exercise can alleviate tinnitus then they need to just tell us.

 

[Snake]

These guys over at The Kinetic Center of audiology claim to have treatments for tinnitus, I'm skeptical and will be investigating this.

View attachment 29405

They also claim to have treatments for hidden hearing loss as well as other conditions like schizophrenia. We need to investigate this very shady company promising medical miracles.

View attachment 29404

They also make lots of typographical errors like myself. Discuss here what you think about their services.

It's a scam, period. They have not helped anyone here in Poland that I'm aware of. I hear only bad things about them.

Their "technology" is diet, rTMS (that we know isn't effective at all and also there's a risk involved as we have one horror story here on Tinnitus Talk, I can't remember the nickname) and ACRN (that is also not effective) that they rebranded as ARC. Really, it's bad.

 

[AVIYT]

I have visited them recently as it's one of the few tinnitus options in Poland. I wouldn't say it's necessarily a scam, but no one can currently help as much as the next guy in this. I've been told I need hearing aids in both ears. It won't improve tinnitus, but it might prevent further hearing loss or a least make it more manageable.

Edit* oh.. didn't notice the bit about schizophrenia. That's laughable.

 

[GregCA]

I've been told I need hearing aids in both ears. It won't improve tinnitus, but it might prevent further hearing loss or a least make it more manageable.

Hearing aids aren't going to prevent further hearing loss.

What they can do is provide more external input to your ear so the tinnitus doesn't stand out as much. That is generally positive (I have experience with that).

In some cases, restoring of hearing via hearing aids makes the tinnitus reduce in volume (and even disappear if you are lucky), perhaps due to the reverse process that happens when we lose hearing. I am not lucky to be in this set, unfortunately.

If you do have hearing loss, I suggest you give hearing aids a try. There is little downside in trying.