Learn from Others' Mistakes

[Bill Bauer]

I hope that in this thread people will post the descriptions of incidents that all of us could learn from.

My tinnitus had improved greatly over the first three months (and changed to a hiss). After I accidentally pressed a loud landline phone (its volume stuck at Max) to my bad ear and the person on the other end raised her voice to greet me (I moved my hand away right away, but it was too late), my T changed back to a high pitched noise and got a lot louder. That spike took more than three months to fade, but it had certainly interfered with my recovery. It was a major setback. So you might want to T-proof your home . If you know that something is loud - get rid of it.

Below are more testimonies. Some of them seem to imply that our ears have been compromised and that the sounds that the healthy people won't even notice can have a devastating consequences for people like us. Other testimonies seem to imply that earplugs and ear muffs can provide only a false sense of security.

Of course many people take those risks and are ok. It doesn't mean that they will always be ok. If you begin hitting a wall with a hammer, it takes some time before you get to see the objects on the other side of the wall. Also they will never know whether their tinnitus would have faded, had they not taken those risks.

To me tinnitus is so horrific that I would be willing to pay a high price to reduce/eliminate even a small chance that tinnitus will get worse (or get a small chance that it will fade). The testimonies below seem to prove that a small (or is it not so small?!) risk does exist, and can be eliminated if we go out of our way to protect our ears (and do not willingly expose ourselves to noise).

Having said the above, my own experiences seem to suggest that what can cause big problems during the first 6-12 months, can often be tolerated during your second year. My advice is for you to be extra careful during your first year, and then you will want to "play it by ear."

Unfortunately there had not been any studies about what can cause permanent and temporary spikes. http://hyperacusisfocus.org/research/earplug-use-2/
"While there are over 2200 posts on hyperacusis setbacks in the patient forum on chat-hyperacusis.net, no academic papers could be found using a pubmed search."

The fact that there have been no published studies regarding what causes permanent and temporary T spikes, means there is no scientific reason behind doctor advice to only protect your ears against noises that are known to damage the inner ear. They are basing this advice on studies that talk about what can damage healthy ears, whereas what can hurt us hasn't been studied (and the overwhelming number of testimonies on this site imply that sounds that can hurt us are Way quieter than the sounds that can damage healthy ears).

Click on the "up arrow" to see the messages below in context.

I didn't think listening to headphones would affect my ears since I never exceeded 25% of max volume (usually stayed between 10%-15%). I would use them at the gym to help mask my T and they offered some protection against loud noises at the gym. After about 3 months my T was so bothersome and I couldn't pinpoint the cause since I also work with kids and it can get loud at times. I stopped using the headphones and now use earplugs at the gym and the T did subside. I wouldn't recommend using headphones for more than 20 mins a day and no more than 3 times a week. I used to be at the gym for 2 hours 4-5 times a week so it took a toll on my ears.

I was told not to wear hearing protection for normal everyday situations but look where it's got me. I had my plugs in my pocket too. Getting on with a normal life hasn't helped for me.

" iwholovemusic " had a spike for about 2 years after loud event . I remember he had posted this about 2-3 years ago .
He was also wearing ear plugs and ear muffs !

It's been passed 3 month mark and I still have this annoying spike, the ear pain is gone but the spike remained.

Yes. I have Noise induce T. My spike was due to going out to a bar/day drinking/brewery/lots of alcohol. Since that day my T has been screaming.

No live loud music, just a restaurant and a lot of people in it.

I tried to wear some ear plugs while I was at the gym because I was afraid the clashing of the dumb bells was going to hurt my ears.

However, after working out twice I now have these two low frequency tones that feel like they are fighting over who should be playing every waking second. I can't quite figure out their pitches because they keep tag teaming, but it's much lower than my regular tinnitus.

I'm kind of distressed because I feel like I can never workout again for fear of making my tinnitus worse. What should I do?

I was focusing on avoiding noise at that time, and I do think that watching TV at medium volume levels at that time would have helped keep my ears from getting more sensitive. I've been doing that a lot lately (watching TV with the decibals just under 70) and it seems to help on readjusting my ears/brain to noise.

Yes, you are correct. Not only that, but I have experienced firsthand already how avoidance is so much more helpful. Yes, even using earplugs and earmuffs is not a suitable replacement for avoidance.

In the third or fourth week of November I bought earmuffs and started wearing them on the bus, which I would take daily for work. At some point earlier on in this month (December) there was a new bus driver who not only had the bus intercom system turned on, but had the volume incredibly loud. I wore my ear protection and kept shuffling seats in an attempt to not be near one of the speakers. I suppose I must have not seen one of the speakers and ended up getting blasted. Even with ear protection on, it made my tinnitus arguably at its worse and gave me a new tone. Ever since then, I have opted for ridesharing services despite how expensive they are. I have sworn off using the bus.

Now, to my amazement, and in less than a month, not only has my new tone vanished, but my tinnitus has gone from moderate to mild. It is amazing to think that just cutting out a 15 minute bus drive with ear protection could have such benefits.

While I agree some people here go overboard with hearing protection, this increase in noise sensitivity after wearing hearing protection is only a temporary one. It is not the same thing as the brain turning up the auditory gain when there is a permanent loss in hearing.

With regards to noise exposure that isn't dangerous to most people, I developed a new tone in my right ear after a noise exposure at work back in October. I spent about half an hour in an area that I would estimate was at most 90db, but it was probably less than that. I had deeply inserted large foam earplugs at the time, but apparently that was not enough protection. That tone has not gone away, and it's not some psychosomatic spike. Spikes in volume are somewhat relative in my opinion, they can be attributed to stress, lack of sleep, noise exposure, diet, etc., but completely new tones that do not go away are something different.

What is safe for you may not be safe for me. And the fact is there has been no good study done assessing the vulnerability of already damaged auditory systems. The gold standard for dangerous noise levels is based on old data from OSHA where they looked for permanent threshold shifts of 10db or more at 2000, 3000, or 4000 Hz. As we know now, you can have fairly significant auditory damage without having a permanent threshold shift in those three ranges. There is also a lot of industry push-back when OSHA tries to make safety guidelines more strict (I haven't seen this with noise levels, but I have seen it with chemical safety guidelines). Moreover, it's very likely that some people are more genetically predisposed to hearing damage than others.

What I'm getting at here is I agree with you that some people really do go overboard with hearing protection, and obsessing about noise is not healthy, but it irritates me when people adopt this attitude of "well it works for me therefore it must work for you" or "it's safe for me therefore it's safe for you". No one can say that.

the noise has actually got worse - a lot worse just lately as I've been exposed to a noisy office environment. Normal for everyone else but too noisy for my ears. I now have a noise like a jet engine, a rushing wind with a high-pitched whine in it.

Yeah. I am going through the same thing. Got my T to improve and go back to mild and went to a restaurant I have eaten safely at twice post T and have had the loudest spike that has, after a week, not improved at all. And my H got worse too.

More loud music, despite earplugs. (I.e. way too loud and maybe too long exposure). That was 23 days ago.

In mid January, however, it became worse. I think it was because of a cold that didn't really break out, and instead left me with this new sound in my ears. However I did go to a concert between chrismas and new years, where I for some stupid reason forgot to bring earplugs, so perhaps this might be the cause (not really sure how long after a loud event you can experience an increase)?

Prolonged loud noise exposure like clubs and parties, had some friends with chronic tinnitus that told me I'd be fine with ear plugs, well, I wasn't. They were, however.

TS tells it like it is.

For my part, I'm ramping up the paranoia.

I never leave my home without foam earplugs inserted. I was caught by fireworks a couple of weeks ago. As I went into a middle-sized grocery store, there was a loud bang on the outside. The building should have offered some protection and the same goes for the earplugs. When I was outside the store and walking away, there was a second bang, but then I had put on my Peltor Optime Earmuffs III on top of the plugs. Even though I'd been taking steps to protect myself, there's no guarantee that it was enough. I may have damaged my ears further. But what if I had taken the fireworks unprotected?

If it's dark outside and cold enough to carry a hooded jacked, I ALWAYS use both earplugs and earmuffs if I go outside. I can't walk around with earmuffs in the small village where I live during the summer months, because it attracts to much attention. But as soon as I travel to a city, I carry double protection even if it's too hot outside to conceal the earmuffs beneath a hood.

A problem I haven't solved is that kids sometimes play with fireworks in the green area next to my house. I'm trying to be disciplined enough to carry earmuffs inside during the dark hours. Better to make a habit of it before I suffer yet another permanent worsening. Unfortunately, my glasses messes up the seal, but some protection is better than none.

Social events? Fuck. that.

Sooner or later, there will be a balloon popping, someone screaming, or whatever.

Living with T if you've experienced it getting worse is stone-cold hell. Your life is a cage of fear and most of what can be called meaning is shattered. Trying to live a normal life will, with some bad luck, bring you back to the angst pit as you suffer yet another accidental setback.

I can't believe that I ended up in this reality of ash. Not much point in denying it, though. Accepting the state of affairs makes it a bit easier to endure, as I wait for my final departure. Until then, I'm going to protect my ears as much as I can manage. There's nothing worse than getting caught by loud noises flatfooted, nothing.

When people speak of habituation, I'm pretty sure they refer to what I was experiencing when my T was a lot less louder. It was easy to tune out which is why I never took it seriously until it was too late. What I have now is impossible to ignore completely.

It lead to stress and anxiety which have destroyed my sleeping. Without any medication I get maybe an hour of unrefreshing sleep. I take ambien which gives me 4 at most which is my new normal now. Memory and cognitive abilities have fallen off a cliff. I suggest you drop concerts, headphones, and anything else involving loud sounds. You don't not want to reach this state ever. Take care.

It started 2015 with a slight ring that I hardly noticed, but I continued to to go to loud events, use headphones/earphones, loud music, basically everything that you shouldn't do. Then last year it became a massive problem, probably a month before I joined the site. Ever since then it's become a bigger part of my life than it should be.

I can't take it anymore. I don't want to die but at this stage the urge to stop suffering is stronger. Ps. To all members in this forum advising against so called "overprotection". I never exposed myself to sounds even remotely considered as being potentially harmful to healthy people but because of your advice I was exposed to sounds uncomfortable for me which eventually proved to be damaging.

At initial stages i was very weary about sound levels around me and used protection everytime I felt uncomfortable.

Only by reading TRT literature or some posts here I started to expose my self to sounds loud but never louder than 75-80 dB.

Whenever I was feeling like something is not right I was stupid enough to believe you these changes were part of "the natural process of healing".

Is this your healing? Every time you feel like giving this sort of advice have my case in mind.

Now situation is devastating and so strange: 12 days ago dishes near me crashed on the floor and a strange spike started. It wasn't noticeable during the day, during first hours. Then hearing became a bit muffled. Not a big deal anyway.

Problem is the evening and the night. An eletric sound from my ear, from my head... I can't sleep. If I try to cover my ears.. I don't hear the T! But when I put off my hands it starts again.

Bill Bauer told me some spikes can be long to fade. But reading this forum I understaood I developed a strange type of spike.

I dunno what to do...
Tomorrow I have tooh removal.
Today an MRI to my neck.
In 30 days I will be father.
I can sleep maximum 4 hours per night and sometimes 0 hours, and only way is taking Xanax.

I'm beginning to hope that all this fatigues could kill me.

Was a difficult first few months, but I protected my hearing a lot (avoiding loud places, wearing custom -35 dB plugs outside and Peltor muff when things got loud).

The tinnitus had slowly lowered o a slight "shhh" that was so low i was ok to sleep in a silent room (and i hardly heard the tinnitus even with the Peltor on most days, or if i heard it it didn't bother me).
I had stopped all medication.

5 days ago, looking for work, I had a Skype call. Basically my PC messed up and the Skype ringing tune was much higher than it usually is. Took me 20 seconds to stop it but apparently it may have been too long.

Now I'm back to a loud baseline tinnitus with new very high pitched sounds coming and going on top of it.
Very depressed and angry that one small mistake can mess my ears again when my life was finally going so well again.
I'm now considering going back under AD since I have a hard time coping with this.

I was sitting in my house and my next door neighbor decided to cut his entire lawn with a gas powered weed wacker. She did that for about little over an hour on and off, I guess stopping to refuel and moving around to different parts of the house and driveway. I was so deep into a movie with my girlfriend that I was just not paying attention, and did not notice the high pitched sound of the weed wacker outside at first.

But later that afternoon I got a very bad spike and my tinnitus went through the roof. You would think that a person is safe in his own home from something like this, but it seems that I was not. Even with all of my double pane windows and heavy cloth blinds closed I guess that high pitched noise from the weed wacker just went right through it and nailed my ears.

So I have been suffering the past 3 days with increased tinnitus. It started on sat after noon around 12, and here it is today Tues and I'm a little better, but not back to my baseline again yet.

It's really freaking me out. I'm very mad and frustrated at myself for not using in my ear plugs or gun muffs to protect myself, but who would have thought that their would be any danger inside of my own home ?

I did measure it on my dB meter on my phone and it seemed to be around 58 dB. I have no idea how accurate that a cell phone's dB meter is.

My neighbors house and driveway are about 30 to 50 feet away from my house and driveway depending where they are using the weed wacker or where I was in the house I happened to be in the front room. I did notice that I could hear the movie over the sound of the weed wacker it wasn't until I paid attention that I realized how loud the sound from the weed wacker was.

I have so much hearing loss. Even every day noises that don't affect people give me hearing loss. Literally a four hour shift at work manning the quietest part of the store gave me hearing loss again in March.

30 minutes MRI gave at least a 30% increase last year despite wearing double hearing protection and I have never recovered. Hope it goes well for you.

Yeah, that's how I ended up with severe tinnitus and it was mild in the beginning. I'm not saying people should stay at home all day but I do think that things like concerts can permanently worsen tinnitus even if that person wears hearing protection. Of course, not in every case and the thread is about a lawn mower not a concert but I don't think it's responsible to tell someone to just 'live their life' - go out with hearing protection but if your body is giving you signals that t is getting worse then listen to those. I had people with tinnitus tell me I'd be safe with ear plugs and if I noticed a spike it would just be due to me worrying about it... I know other people aren't as naive and stupid as I used to be but the severity of my tinnitus was honestly preventable and I wouldn't wish such a worsening on anyone else. But again, this is about a lawn mower. Sorry for digressing the thread...

I tried the 'laissez faire' approach for that first period, where I didn't let myself be bothered by most sounds, except for 80db+ (when I started plugging the ears) and still went out and did all my old activities, but that ended up costing me dearly. I had a 'spike' (if it can still be called that) that hasn't gone away.

So, I'm currently experiencing a big spike in both ears that is not subsiding – and I don't know why – because it shouldn't have been a bad enough exposure to do this.

I used a heat gun to remove some old lino flooring for about 1-1.5 hours. I turned it off every 2-3 mins or so for about a minute – so it wasn't constant for the entire 1.5 hours. I used double ear protection the entire time – silicone earplugs fully inserted and 37dB Peltor X5 ear defenders on top. The heat gun basically sounds like a hair dryer, and my iPhone measures it at 72dB from the distance I was using it from my ears.

At no point did it feel loud or uncomfortable – my ear protection should be bringing down the exposure to 55dB (at worse!)

Following this, both ears have gotten worse – by a decent amount. Enough to unsettle me. It has been 8 days, and no real sign of improvement.

The fact that it is in both ears, feels like a different spike than normal, and has not subsided in the usual time has got me concerned.

I was walking past a stack of speakers at the mall when they suddenly blasted loud music. I didn't have earplugs on because I know that area of the mall is normally quiet. Just sucks that the speakers came on. But worse was that I froze in place, like a deer caught in headlights. I got exposed for I dunno, 20 to 30 seconds before survival instinct took over.
Lex, Jul 11, 2017

I've vastly improved since I last posted but I am not yet back to baseline pre-setback.
Lex, Jan 28, 2018

Ive not been on this site for some time as I was staring to adapt quite well to my tinnitus. But just the other day I was breaking up some old CD's I didnt want and the cracking sound seemed to change the volume/tone of my Tinnitus.

It wasn't until 6 months ago, December 2017, that my lifestyle drastically changed. I started going out to clubs, parties, and I obviously started drinking. These are things never use to do prior to December 2017.

I noticed late February that something was wrong. My tinnitus began increasing in volume. But I was caught up in the hype. I was caught up in the fun. And I ignored it. WHICH I GREATLY REGRET.

Over the past couple of months my tinnitus has been getting worse and worse. Till about 3 weeks ago were the ringing starting becoming unbearable.

I realised that my partying days are over, but my young and foolish self didn't want to except that. So I came up with the "bright idea" to go to parties without harming my ears, and that was to wear ear plugs at the party (this party happened 5 days ago by the way).

2 hours into the party I could feel that the ear plugs are not working. I then asked my friends if we could leave because I started panicking and we left. What made matters worse is that I was high (we smoked marijuana that night) so it made me extremely paranoid and all my mind focused on was the tinnitus. I couldn't even sleep that night, the ringing was too much.

5 days later and the ringing is still loud. And it's not showing any signs of decreasing in volume.

My T faded a lot suddenly almost 3 years ago. I had total remission of some trebly sounds in my head. It became only audible in quiet rooms.

Now its back in full force cause Im stupid. Some ENT told me ear plugs are safe. Wrong! T is with me again.

Hopefully this thread will help to raise awareness.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Earlier this year, "my side" (the one that argues that there is plenty of evidence that it makes sense to exercise caution and not intentionally expose oneself to noise) and "the other side" had argued in a number of threads on this forum. Judging by the number of posters supporting each side, and by the "like" and "agree" counts on the various posts, it appeared that about half of the regulars support my side and about half support the other side. The fact that three people from the other side tried to take down my posts, seems to show that they don't believe they can respond to my post with convincing counterarguments.

One objection raised against the post was that "anyone can use this forum's search function." Using this logic, we don't need that Research forum, as all of us can just search PubMed and Google Scholar ourselves. I Haven't used the search function. I have been reading this forum for 15 months now and every time I see one of those cautionary tales, I would paste it into a special file on my computer. I don't think it would be easy to find those cautionary tales by using the search function. Also, the point is that most people will Not Know that sounds that the healthy people won't even notice can harm people like us, so most won't use the search function. Most of the people who are aware of this issue won't use the search function. And even if one were to use the search function and find something, one is unlikely to keep looking and find That Many cautionary tales that one can benefit from.

Another objection was that the "cautionary tales" were taken out of context. When I see posts about people getting spikes where the culprit was likely NOT the poster being exposed to noise, I don't add them to my file. When I quote a cautionary tale, I always point out that the reader is welcome to click on the "up arrow" to see the quote in context (and I believe this was the case in the post that got deleted). This is because I am confident that the reader will agree with me that once the context is taken into account, the post can still be interpreted as evidence that it is a good idea to stay away from noise if one can. Another thing to keep in mind is that the authors of those posts get notified about this thread. If any of them feel like they had been taken out of context, they can easily write about it in this thread.

I hope people will post their experiences (or the experiences of others') here. If you want to debate how far it makes sense to go to protect our ears, please use one of the old threads that have those debates. Most of the arguments had already been voiced in threads like
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/why-do-some-people-hate-bill-bauer.27106/
I would be happy to have another debate, but let's not just keep regurgitating old arguments.

 

[fishbone]

I hope that in this thread people will post the descriptions of incidents that all of us could learn from.

My tinnitus had improved greatly over the first three months (and changed to a hiss). After I accidentally pressed a loud landline phone (its volume stuck at Max) to my bad ear and the person on the other end raised her voice to greet me (I moved my hand away right away, but it was too late), my T changed back to a high pitched noise and got a lot louder. That spike took more than three months to fade, but it had certainly interfered with my recovery. It was a major setback. So you might want to T-proof your home . If you know that something is loud - get rid of it.

Below are more testimonies. Some of them seem to imply that our ears have been compromised and that the sounds that the healthy people won't even notice can have a devastating consequences for people like us. Other testimonies seem to imply that earplugs and ear muffs can provide only a false sense of security.

Of course many people take those risks and are ok. It doesn't mean that they will always be ok. If you begin hitting a wall with a hammer, it takes some time before you get to see the objects on the other side of the wall. Also they will never know whether their tinnitus would have faded, had they not taken those risks.

To me tinnitus is so horrific that I would be willing to pay a high price to reduce/eliminate even a small chance that tinnitus will get worse (or get a small chance that it will fade). The testimonies below seem to prove that a small (or is it not so small?!) risk does exist, and can be eliminated if we go out of our way to protect our ears (and do not willingly expose ourselves to noise).

Having said the above, my own experiences seem to suggest that what can cause big problems during the first 6-12 months, can often be tolerated during your second year. My advice is for you to be extra careful during your first year, and then you will want to "play it by ear."

Unfortunately there had not been any studies about what can cause permanent and temporary spikes. http://hyperacusisfocus.org/research/earplug-use-2/
"While there are over 2200 posts on hyperacusis setbacks in the patient forum on chat-hyperacusis.net, no academic papers could be found using a pubmed search."

The fact that there have been no published studies regarding what causes permanent and temporary T spikes, means there is no scientific reason behind doctor advice to only protect your ears against noises that are known to damage the inner ear. They are basing this advice on studies that talk about what can damage healthy ears, whereas what can hurt us hasn't been studied (and the overwhelming number of testimonies on this site imply that sounds that can hurt us are Way quieter than the sounds that can damage healthy ears).

Click on the "up arrow" to see the messages below in context.






























































Hopefully this thread will help to raise awareness.

This thread really helps no one Bill. All it does is it screws, with the minds of fragile forum members and puts even more fear into their lives. Our members are suffering and posts like this make them worst. Please respect the people here and post material that helps them move ahead and not backwards.....

 

[Bill Bauer]

This thread really helps no one Bill.

If someone has blind faith (despite all of the evidence) that noise is safe, then they would think the above. If it is the case that noise might not be safe (as evidenced by all of those people's posts), then it is important to raise awareness of it.

This is one of the most important posts I made on this forum (possibly second only to that Stats thread).

 

[Bill Bauer]

Our members are suffering

Yes, and what they don't realize is that there are everyday things that can make their T louder. Those things sound harmless (e.g., music at the mall, the sound of CDs being broken), but they can do serious damage. I wish someone were to tell me about this, early in my journey. I remember several other people on this forum making posts saying the same thing (lamenting not being warned).

 

[fishbone]

If someone has blind faith (despite all of the evidence) that noise is safe, then they would think the above. If it is the case that noise might not be safe (as evidenced by all of those people's posts), then it is important to raise awareness of it.

This is one of the most important posts I made on this forum (possibly second only to that Stats thread).

I can go through all your copy n pasted material and DEBUNK them all. I won't do that, because I don't have time for such pointless threads. In the end this is just a FEAR MONGERING thread. Your thread(s) will never bother me, but these poor people dont deserve to see such threads...

 

[Bill Bauer]

I can go through all your copy n pasted material and DEBUNK them all.

If you are not going to do it, why talk about it here? I can Debunk all of your arguments. Now what?

 

[Bill Bauer]

@fishbone

If you want to debate how far it makes sense to go to protect our ears, please use one of the old threads that have those debates. Most of the arguments had already been voiced in threads like
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/why-do-some-people-hate-bill-bauer.27106/
I would be happy to have another debate, but let's not just keep regurgitating old arguments.

 

[fishbone]

Yes, and what they don't realize is that there are everyday things that can make their T louder. Those things sound harmless (e.g., music at the mall, the sound of CDs being broken), but they can do serious damage. I wish someone were to tell me about this, early in my journey. I remember several other people on this forum making posts saying the same thing (lamenting not being warned).

Let me ask you this. How come everyday noise, don't seem to make my tinnitus worst? Please help me on this one Bill.
I have broken dishes, I have accidentally blasted my bose speakers, I was training 2 days ago in MMA studio and teacher had heavy metal music on(low volume and for 1 hour). Please explain why my ears are not worst right now? I have walked on air packets, I have been exposed to everyday noises....

 

[Ahat]

I can go through all your copy n pasted material and DEBUNK them all. I won't do that, because I don't have time for such pointless threads. In the end this is just a FEAR MONGERING thread. Your thread(s) will never bother me, but these poor people dont deserve to see such threads...

I've never even interacted with this guy, but after reading his posts I can tell it's like dealing with a child.

 

[Bill Bauer]

How come everyday noise, don't seem to make my tinnitus worst?

You might have been T-free, had you been more careful.

But I agree - if everyday loud noises had never given you any spikes, then it is possible that you are one of the lucky people who don't need to worry too much about this. For people like you, if the cost (in terms of effort and missed experiences) is low, it still makes sense to try to avoid loud noises, though.

 

[Bill Bauer]

During my recent vacation, I got exposed to noises that, in the past, would have resulted in savage spikes for me. I ended up being fine. So it is entirely possible that after about a year, one is less vulnerable. I will write about those experiences in an upcoming thread. Like I wrote in my original post:

my own experiences seem to suggest that what can cause big problems during the first 6-12 months, can often be tolerated during your second year. My advice is for you to be extra careful during your first year, and then you will want to "play it by ear."

 

[fishbone]

You might have been T-free, had you been more careful.

But I agree - if everyday loud noises had never given you any spikes, then it is possible that you are one of the lucky people who don't need to worry too much about this. For people like you, if the cost (in terms of effort and missed experiences) is low, it still makes sense to try to avoid loud noises, though.

Bill you need to read my posts, because what you just posted in this single post is absurd and too funny. I got tinnitus because I was sick and almost died as a teen. Then I made it worst, because I went to heavy metal concerts. These are not everyday noises bro. If you are going to post and say something, please be factual about it

Please stop scaring these poor people and lay off the copy n pasting....

PS- what really made my tinnitus worst was the illness I had, rock concerts/bars/loud events and meds. Everyday noises are not the reason why my tinnitus is intrusive today....

 

[Bill Bauer]

Then I made it worst, because I went to heavy metal concerts. These are not everyday noises bro.

Did you read the posts that I had quoted? Those people's experiences had to do with everyday noises (or concerts + earplugs).

It doesn't look like you read

Yes, you are correct. Not only that, but I have experienced firsthand already how avoidance is so much more helpful. Yes, even using earplugs and earmuffs is not a suitable replacement for avoidance.
...

Now, to my amazement, and in less than a month, not only has my new tone vanished, but my tinnitus has gone from moderate to mild. It is amazing to think that just cutting out a 15 minute bus drive with ear protection could have such benefits.

So even after you gave yourself loud T, it is possible that your T would have faded had you tried to be easier on your ears.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Please stop scaring these poor people

Please stop trying to keep people ignorant and unaware of those posts. Also, please stop posting off-topic in this thread.

 

[fishbone]

This thread is nonsense and as long as I am a member here, I will not let you scare these people and get them paranoid. You say that people go to concerts and their tinnitus is worst? Let me ask you this, how much stress/anxiety did they have towards that concert? What DB protection was their ears protected with? These 2 alone make a HUGE difference. How long did they have ear plugs or muff in or on their ears? These make a HUGE difference.

I been to 2 heavy metal concerts last year with good ear plugs and my tinnitus never raised in volume and my hearing never got bad either. I am not saying people need to go to concerts, this is their call, but I was not bothered by the concert at all. The only issue I had was that my ears had ear plugs in them for 2-4 hours and they were tired and irritated in the end.

You know why i don't get spikes Bill? Because I am not scared, anxious, stressed out about noise. I am not scared of noise/sound. These poor people are scared right now and you are just scaring them as usual.

You can type whatever you want, but i can debunk them........

PS- I wish @Contrast would show up and make a meme of this post

PSS- As I always say in my posts, people need to protect their ears in known spots(bars,concerts,live events). I am not telling people to go to concerts, live shows or anything of that nature. This is their call and it is 100% up to them if they go or not...

 

[Bill Bauer]

This thread is nonsense

And yet we get posts that support my point of view every couple of days. Here is one that just got posted today. Note, that it is entirely possible that had my thread not been deleted back in June, the person below might have read it, might have learned from it, and might not have felt suicidal now (click on the "up arrow" to see the rest of his post).

I thought I had it under control until about 2-3 weeks ago, when I went to a friend's house and it was only 3 of us in total; me, my friend, and his roommate. There was music playing on the speakers that wasn't even loud but it caused me to leave with a "spike" that lasts t0 this day.

 

[Ahat]

Wow. How do you have time for this? It's obsessive.

This is fear mongering at its finest. We need to protect our ears where we see fit, but you would have people believing they will get a permanent spike if they cough.

The only evidence you have for anything you say is from here and you take it as the gospel. Can you back anything up with evidence outside of Tinnitus Talk? You do realize this place only consists of a small fraction of people that have tinnitus, right?

 

[Bill Bauer]

You know why i don't get spikes Bill? Because I am not scared, anxious, stressed out about noise.

Most of the time when I got spikes, I wasn't stressed out about the noise. I had a serious three-month long spike as a result of a loud phone. Even after I got a spike, I wasn't worried - I thought to myself: "How bad can it be? It is only a Phone!"

Likewise, the person I quoted in my last post wasn't stressed out about the music ("that wasn't even that loud") at a party he attended. Alue didn't expect to get a spike as a result of that loud machinery that he got close to voluntarily. This holds true for most of the cautionary tales above (one notable exception being Lex's story). So most of the time people get exposed, get a spike and THEN become stressed. It is not the other way around.

 

[fishbone]

And yet we get posts that support my point of view every couple of days. Here is one that just got posted today. Note, that it is entirely possible that had my thread not been deleted back in June, the person below might have read it, might have learned from it, and might not have felt suicidal now (click on the "up arrow" to see the rest of his post).

I do not know this person and i don't want to offend them at all. I don't know if this person has hyperacusis or not. I don't know if they have an ear infection or not. I don't know if this person has stress/anxiety or not. Bill so many factors that I do not know and we do not know. You cannot just throw an example like this one or the one's you posted in the original thread without knowing the full story. Unless you 100% know the person or their FULL story your points cannot be 100% valid....

 

[Ed209]

I'll post once because I know how this will end up. I agree with fish. Selecting a bunch of random quotes from people who are suffering is not a great idea and doesn't really prove anything. Most people with tinnitus are stuck in a cycle of fear, so I would expect to see the kind of posts that you have copied and pasted; I was once one of them. All you are doing is perpetuating the fear that all sound is bad and that one should abstain from life; for 99% of people this is practically impossible without putting a serious strain on their mental health. It's likely to make anyone who has hyperacusis feel worse (in the longterm), and the ultimate destination for most people will be a life with phonophobia. And believe me, that's something people don't want because it's mentally exhausting and can ruin lives.

I understand the dangerous aspects of noise, but we can use protection to mitigate the risk in the majority of situations. If we ever put ourselves into an environment where the noise levels are too high to be safe, even with hearing protection, then we should leave or avoid going in the first place. Such extremes are very rare. Put it this way: you are unlikely to stumble onto the front row of a Slayer concert by accident! Noise like that aren't likely to come into your life whilst you are out shopping at Walmart for example. The truly dangerous environments are often places we choose to go or have prior knowledge of. We must also understand that noise damage is time weighted, and accumulative, so people are more at risk if they are being exposed to dangerous levels of occupational noise, unprotected.

I believe the line gets crossed - in a hugely unhealthy way - when people start losing sleep over things like a toilet seat falling, or a van door shutting, for example. I have seen numerous posts from people, who are in a fragile state, that have taken prednisone on multiple occasions because of noises like I just mentioned. You have to understand that tinnitus is directly associated with the emotional processing centres of the brain and nervous system, so any kind of fear response that is linked with the tinnitus signal, can and will, cause a spike. The stress relationship is well documented.

I'll finish by saying that we are in a bubble here because we are surrounded by sufferers which only compounds the issue. It's a bit biased, to copy and paste people's misery, from here, to use as data.

 

[Bill Bauer]

but you would have people believing they will get a permanent spike if they cough.

If you read my posts, you will see that the above is not true. I pointed out multiple times that people should listen to their bodies. The argument you are trying to make (TT represents a small fraction of people with T) had already been discussed many times on this forum.

The only evidence you have for anything you say is from here and you take it as the gospel.

Again, I had already addressed this in this very thread. I think that T is so horrible that it is unwise to take any chances. If you don't think that way, then of course you should not care too much about those posts that I had quoted.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Selecting a bunch of random quotes from people who are suffering is not a great idea and doesn't really prove anything.

This is not a proof, it is information that people are free to use or to ignore. Of course, each post alone is not very useful, but when they are all placed in one thread, it makes it easier for one to assess what to make of them all.

I believe the line gets crossed - in a hugely unhealthy way - when people start losing sleep over things like a toilet seat falling, or a van door shutting, for example.

I believe @Jiri got a serious spike following the incident that he had described below:

I was driven to one of the hospitals in Prague where they specialize in Tinnitus in a crappy old ambulance. Each time the driver would slam the sliding door shut it'd generate a noise of 114 dB (obviously not a long time in duration but still, it was inside a small closed area - a van).

And that was about 8 - 9 times during the whole journey as I wasn't the only passenger.

I was using double hearing protection 32 dB SNR earplugs + 27 dB SNR Peltor Muffs. I figure that makes - 37 dB. In total I was then exposed to 77 dB each time the driver opened and shut the sliding door.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Regarding the "stress" argument: It is T spikes that cause the stress and fear. If one's T is not spiking and one tries not to be reckless, one's stress levels will be low.

If one is not aware of the danger, exposes oneself to noise and gets a spike, THEN one becomes fearful and stressed out.

The way to minimize fear is to raise awareness.

 

[Ahat]

If you read my posts, you will see that the above is not true. I pointed out multiple times that people should listen to their bodies. The argument you are trying to make (TT represents a small fraction of people with T) had already been discussed many times on this forum.

Again, I had already addressed this in this very thread. I think that T is so horrible that it is unwise to take any chances. If you don't think that way, then of course you should not care too much about those posts that I had quoted.

I did read your posts in the beginning and I really wish I hadn't.

This is like arguing with my 7 year old. You never get anywhere.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I did read your posts in the beginning and I really wish I hadn't.

This is like arguing with my 7 year old. You never get anywhere.

Your argument comes off like an argument a young child would make (seeing how there is no argument, just a personal attack).

 

[Ed209]

This is not a proof, it is information that people are free to use or to ignore. Of course, each post alone is not very useful, but when they are all placed in one thread, it makes it easier for one to assess what to make of them all.

I said I'd post once but I'll just say this and leave it at that: what you are doing is fear mongering. New and impressionable minds could be scarred for life reading stuff like this. You go too far and often have people taking prednisone like it's a multivitamin.

I once made a joke post of how it would be to live under your restrictions and it's still true today.

 

[Bill Bauer]

what you are doing is fear mongering

"fear mongering: the action of deliberately arousing public fear or alarm about a particular issue."
So public service announcements about the dangers of smoking/drunk driving shouldn't be done because that's fear mongering?

 

[Ahat]

Your argument comes off like an argument a young child would make (seeing how there is no argument, just a personal attack).

That is correct. There is no argument. Just calling it like I see it.

Nice talking to you...

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Depending on a person's situation a posting could be seen as positive negative where others will see it as negative positive, or just negative or positive.

Thoughts from some internet Psychologists:

Using positive thoughts like with optimism may be a misnomer. Expressing optimism can be counterproductive, unfitting and untimely for some due to many reasons. A warning or a blessing could be helpful to some and hurtful to others depending on the nature of their situation. Optimism helps us manage stress, but what happens when a person is told to see a favorable outcome at the expense of facts to the contrary.

There must be a balance between idealism and realism. Falling short in who we are in achieving the necessities of a normal responsible life due to pressure saying that we can achieve normalization needs to be considered.