Learn from Others' Mistakes

[Nanny chocolate]

Crumbs, aren't you clever Ed.
@Ed209

 

[Ed209]

Crumbs, aren't you clever Ed.
@Ed209

Just pointing out some facts. I was trained in sound engineering as well as music which helps with all things relating to sound. Don't big me up too much though I'm not that great .

If anyone is interested, though, I just fell upon a link which backs up what I said about ear protection. There are many sources relating to this subject but this gets straight to the point:

I'll paste an excerpt below:

Ear plug ratings are regulated by international standards and ratings. In the United States, the EPA requires that every product post their NRR (Noise Reduction Rating). This measures the potential of reduction in sound by dB (decibels).

These ratings rely on proper usage, which varies so greatly that OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) and NIOSH (National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health) developed derating systems to more accurately portray NRR. In other words, ear plugs are so often misused that an NRR may inaccurately portray the level of protection. As a consumer, it is difficult to know whether or not you're wearing them correctly, and even more so to tell the difference between correctly and incorrectly worn ear plugs.

https://www.yourbestdigs.com/reviews/the-best-ear-plugs/#noise-reduction-ratings

 

[Nanny chocolate]

Still think you are clever though x

 

[Tinniger]

"damage is damage" and that the cause of the damage might not matter.

For many tinnitus sufferers, the intensity varies from day to day between mild, moderate and serious.
Do they suffer varying degrees of damage from day to day?
And where should (this constantly changing) damage be? On the cochlea, on the auditory nerves, or right in the brain?

 

[Bill Bauer]

Wow, Bill, how do you manage to cross a road? When cars are present, there's a > 0% chance of getting hit!

Good point.

I believe that being exposed to loud noises carries not only a nonzero, but also a non-negligible risk for many people. Each person gets feedback from their body, and, based on their past experiences can estimate what their risk is. If they had been exposed to loud noises and never had any problems, perhaps that risk is low for them. If they have had problems in the past (but thought that it was just stress, as those noises can't possibly be harmful), their risk might not be so low.

Given my experiences, the probability I assign to getting a spike after noise exposure is substantial.

I will say it's practically impossible to protect against all the noises Bill is talking about

You Can stay away from noise. I am doing it, @flobo is doing it, @Red is doing it, as do many others.

Do they suffer varying degrees of damage from day to day?

The damage causes symptoms. The symptoms vary from day to day.

On the cochlea, on the auditory nerves, or right in the brain?

We might never know.

 

[Tinniger]

The damage causes symptoms. The symptoms vary from day to day.

If we cannot eliminate the causes, it would make sense to minimize the symptoms...
Why vary the symptoms?

 

[Bill Bauer]

If we cannot eliminate the causes, it would make sense to minimize the symptoms...
Why vary the symptoms?

I was just trying to point out that just because T volume is variable doesn't necessarily mean that the cause of T is variable. Also, the original cause of T (acoustic trauma) is not the same as what is causing us to experience T (possibly neurons).

Protecting one's ears would hopefully help to promote recovery and minimize the symptoms.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I was just trying to point out that just because T volume is variable doesn't necessarily mean that the cause of T is variable. Also, the original cause of T (acoustic trauma) is not the same as what is causing us to experience T (possibly neurons).

Protecting one's ears would hopefully help to promote recovery and minimize the symptoms.

Your statement above is very compassionate as we know that our experiences with tinnitus may be different from someone else. On this topic many things may cause a spike. I will often get a temporary spike just from taking a nap.

For me with physical tinnitus it could depend on neck movement and the weight of noise blocking headphones that compresses arteries and muscles in my neck causing a spike. I have heart disease which is not friends with loud noise. I also have a compromised spinal cord where any sound vibrations from touch can travel causing a spike. Ear protection plus the use of rubber gloves will help with that. This thread subject matter is just endless and it depends on one's conditions.

We can't project that we know the answers per someone else.

 

[MBH]

Lesson from others mistakes A. they have hard time with spikes and they last. B. They realize this is not the yellow brick road to OZ. C. And advice on dealing with spikes or T is welcome. D. Small sounds can lead to becoming permanent! E. Waking up to spikes can take your breath away not to mention messing up your day and the day after. Is there a happily ever after.

 

[dpdx]

My advice for everyone who just got Tinnitus (if you are reading this) is please do not expose yourself to concerts/clubs/theather or you will make it worse. PLEASE Do not use headphones/earbuds and DO NOT DO EAR TESTS (like ear syrnging, micro suction, caloric test, vemp, ecog, acoustic reflex, tympanometry,etc) BECAUSE You will make it worse. I had initially mild T and now I have very very intrusive tinnitus with severe hyperacusis. My T can be heard over my own voice and other peoples. I barely sleep at night anymore and I have also Severe H, turning pages of a book hurts, as well as my own voice and other peoples voices.
If you get Mild T please just leave it alone, dont read stuff over this forum, shut it off, and move on. You will habituate and will move on with your life. If you obsess over it and monitor it all the time and ALLOW dumb ENTs and Audiologists to touch it, you can make it worse and let me tell you, you dont want to have what I have. Because of my Severe H and Severe T I also developed dark eye floaters ( never had that before in my life), and I got High blood pressure which causes me balance issues. DONT MAKE TROUBLE. also dont overprotect your ears, you can walk outside without earplugs but make sure to cover them up when ambulance passes.

 

[Bill Bauer]

you can walk outside without earplugs

If you do that, and you get a spike as a result of the noise, learn from that mistake. But of course if you do that and it works out for you, learn from that experience too and act accordingly.

 

[dpdx]

If you do that, and you get a spike as a result of the noise, learn from that mistake. But of course if you do that and it works out for you, learn from that experience too and act accordingly.

Bill did your T reduce? I have Severe H and T since January and I saw 0 improvement.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Bill did your T reduce?

I don't want to go into details, but I will say that it is quieter compared to how it was a year ago.

 

[dpdx]

I don't want to go into details, but I will say that it is quieter compared to how it was a year ago.

I want my to reduce but what I really want is for my Severe H to go away. I cant even talk how bad it is. I am confused Bill. I had no Severe T on the R ear, then when I did the ear tests on Jan 15, which were primarily on the R (healthy ear) two weeks later I Developed severe h on right ear and just moderate h on left ear. I do not know whether my TMJ caused the severe H on the R ear. I have bad TMJ on R ear, you can even feel the cartilage on the TMJ joint on the right cheek.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@dpdx I feel for you, but in time your issues should get better. I got my first very severe tinnitus from syringing causing hearing loss, then an ear test. What really helped was to use a warm towel and gently rub my entire head and neck. I started doing this at three year and by year 4 I had improvement. I also had severe H and for that I was able to take advantage of the rain season from my covered open porch. It wiped out my severe H after having it for 1.5 years in two weeks.

One of my many problem from my newer severe onset - whiplash is TMJ. Ora-Guard has a design that does not cover front teeth - only the first three molars on each side. I can't cover my back teeth as my jaw joint hurts more. I use a cold towel or ice wrapped in a towel and I place it on the jaw joint for a few minutes. I use gentle massage.

Pink music - I use a brook from U Tube as much as possible. I play it soft and use it in the background when I go to other internet sites. I play pink rain at night.

I try to lower blood pressure naturally and increase oxygen flow. Breathing exercises. A little vitamin C. Some walking and gentle arms movements.

Lots of idea on this site.

 

[dpdx]

@dpdx I feel for you, but in time your issues should get better. I got my first very severe tinnitus from syringing causing hearing loss, then an ear test. What really helped was to use a warm towel and gently rub my entire head and neck. I started doing this at three year and by year 4 I had improvement. I also had severe H and for that I was able to take advantage of the rain season from my covered open porch. It wiped out my severe H after having it for 1.5 years in two weeks.

One of my many problem from my newer severe onset - whiplash is TMJ. Ora-Guard has a design that does not cover front teeth - only the first three molars on each side. I can't cover my back teeth as my jaw joint hurts more. I use a cold towel or ice wrapped in a towel and I place it on the jaw joint for a few minutes. I use gentle massage.

Pink music - I use a brook from U Tube as much as possible. I play it soft and use it in the background when I go to other internet sites. I play pink rain at night.

I try to lower blood pressure naturally and increase oxygen flow. Breathing exercises. A little vitamin C. Some walking and gentle arms movements.

Lots of idea on this site.

I didnt know caloric test was ear syrnging. Crazy.
Turning pages of the book hurts my ears, talking, other people talking, urinating, turning lightswitches on, etc
I cant work anymore. pretty much disabled, add in the severe tinnitus.
I also have ear fullness now and moderate hearing loss from the caloric test.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I didnt know caloric test was ear syrnging. Crazy.
Turning pages of the book hurts my ears, talking, other people talking, urinating, turning lightswitches on, etc
I cant work anymore. pretty much disabled, add in the severe tinnitus.
I also have ear fullness now and moderate hearing loss from the caloric test.

Same with me to all that you said. Yesterday I received another spike and very increased hyperacusis on top on my high pitched severe tinnitus. I don't know if a spike from neck issues and hearing caused the spike or if hyperacusis caused the spike. Then maybe the spike caused more hyperacusis.

I don't think my spike & H of yesterday is from my TMJ. For you I suppose it could be possible that your TMJ is causing hyperacusis. I hope that someday you get some relief.

 

[dpdx]

Same with me to all that you said. Yesterday I received another spike and very increased hyperacusis on top on my high pitched severe tinnitus. I don't know if a spike from neck issues and hearing caused the spike or if hyperacusis caused the spike. Then maybe the spike caused more hyperacusis.

I don't think my spike & H of yesterday is from my TMJ. For you I suppose it could be possible that your TMJ is causing hyperacusis. I hope that someday you get some relief.

We are tormented souls.

 

[dpdx]

Same with me to all that you said. Yesterday I received another spike and very increased hyperacusis on top on my high pitched severe tinnitus. I don't know if a spike from neck issues and hearing caused the spike or if hyperacusis caused the spike. Then maybe the spike caused more hyperacusis.

I don't think my spike & H of yesterday is from my TMJ. For you I suppose it could be possible that your TMJ is causing hyperacusis. I hope that someday you get some relief.

I had tmj before and no severe h, severe h presented itself about 2 weeks after those ear tests, and severe t one week.

 

[Bill Bauer]

D. Small sounds can lead to becoming permanent!

To be fair, the quieter the sounds, the lower is the chance that it can lead to a permanent spike. Just do your best to avoid the sounds that feel loud to you, and things will hopefully work out.

You say that your T was caused by stress. I read many posts where people like you report recovering, or greatly improving. Have you experienced any fading in the past 6 months?

 

[dpdx]

To be fair, the quieter the sounds, the lower is the chance that it can lead to a permanent spike. Just do your best to avoid the sounds that feel loud to you, and things will hopefully work out.

You say that your T was caused by stress. I read many posts where people like you report recovering, or greatly improving. Have you experienced any fading in the past 6 months?

How can stresss cause Tinnitus. That means everyone should have tinnitus. I think T is caused by hearing loss or some other malady.

 

[Jiri]

@Greg Sacramento Is there a way to tell that your tinnitus spike was likely caused by a neck problem?

I had to move 2 heavy stones today, bending down, to help my grandparents empty one tank.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Jiri ----- It could be:
- Neck issues, hearing, spike, hyperacusis increase
I don't know what caused what

I don't think it was my heart, jaw or noise exposure.
I'm not taking any meds, but will start new heart meds tomorrow.

Thanks for caring.

 

[Jiri]

No problem @Greg Sacramento . I hope you feel better soon.

 

[MBH]

I'm coming up to year now and my T is from stress, I medically had nothing, no meds other than allergies med that I was on for years. I was mostly never around noise, but I I'm not like the most who have T by noise or hearing lost I also have none, I'm also 53 They can say I'm 53, but I don't buy into that. I think in general I learned some functional ways about T from here. As far as sounds that make my T spike in the beginning I had more spikes and it may have been from small or large sounds around me, l could not pinpoint to no where land. As far as my T lowing, it has at times, but with three tones, static, crickets, irregular T and I will say at the 6 months mark I felt my body was better and that's good enough for now.

 

[Bill Bauer]

my T is from stress, I medically had nothing,

Could it be that you had experienced "sudden hearing loss", and it caused T?

 

[MBH]

I had a MRI all blood work, and I went to 2 audio and one hearing person (private company ) all test confirmed no loss. I had to fight from private to sell me maskers. Believe me I found the whole thing shocking. I truly believe a had a stress mind Snap. Which I made up that term.

 

[MBH]

Bill, Ty for thoughts in my T, again thanks again.

 

[dpdx]

I hope that in this thread people will post the descriptions of incidents that all of us could learn from.

My tinnitus had improved greatly over the first three months (and changed to a hiss). After I accidentally pressed a loud landline phone (its volume stuck at Max) to my bad ear and the person on the other end raised her voice to greet me (I moved my hand away right away, but it was too late), my T changed back to a high pitched noise and got a lot louder. That spike took more than three months to fade, but it had certainly interfered with my recovery. It was a major setback. So you might want to T-proof your home . If you know that something is loud - get rid of it.

Below are more testimonies. Some of them seem to imply that our ears have been compromised and that the sounds that the healthy people won't even notice can have a devastating consequences for people like us. Other testimonies seem to imply that earplugs and ear muffs can provide only a false sense of security.

Of course many people take those risks and are ok. It doesn't mean that they will always be ok. If you begin hitting a wall with a hammer, it takes some time before you get to see the objects on the other side of the wall. Also they will never know whether their tinnitus would have faded, had they not taken those risks.

To me tinnitus is so horrific that I would be willing to pay a high price to reduce/eliminate even a small chance that tinnitus will get worse (or get a small chance that it will fade). The testimonies below seem to prove that a small (or is it not so small?!) risk does exist, and can be eliminated if we go out of our way to protect our ears (and do not willingly expose ourselves to noise).

Having said the above, my own experiences seem to suggest that what can cause big problems during the first 6-12 months, can often be tolerated during your second year. My advice is for you to be extra careful during your first year, and then you will want to "play it by ear."

Unfortunately there had not been any studies about what can cause permanent and temporary spikes. http://hyperacusisfocus.org/research/earplug-use-2/
"While there are over 2200 posts on hyperacusis setbacks in the patient forum on chat-hyperacusis.net, no academic papers could be found using a pubmed search."

The fact that there have been no published studies regarding what causes permanent and temporary T spikes, means there is no scientific reason behind doctor advice to only protect your ears against noises that are known to damage the inner ear. They are basing this advice on studies that talk about what can damage healthy ears, whereas what can hurt us hasn't been studied (and the overwhelming number of testimonies on this site imply that sounds that can hurt us are Way quieter than the sounds that can damage healthy ears).

Click on the "up arrow" to see the messages below in context.






























































Hopefully this thread will help to raise awareness.

Add my horror story in as well with the ENT, so people can avoid the same mistake. Not only do you get loud T but black eye floaters and visual snow.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Add my horror story in as well with the ENT, so people can avoid the same mistake. Not only do you get loud T but black eye floaters and visual snow.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/caloric-test.26658/