Learn from Others' Mistakes

[SugarMagnolia]

Actually it rather surprises me that TT allows member quoting across threads. I am on other forums that do not allow this because quotes can be used in a misleading manner.

If you click the arrow, it takes you to the original post, so you can read the whole thread and understand the post in context.

Does that quote permission extend to threads where you are not participating? Are their time limitations? What if you have not been active in months or even years?

I think when we post in a public forum, we are giving permission to be quoted anywhere and anytime on the website.

 

[Ed209]

Nice euphemism, Ed!

Most of us aren't even realizing our biases:

Absolutely Greg. I remember a few years back watching a documentary which went through human biases. In fact, the financial crash of 2007 was blamed on a human bias and a new system was implemented to help tackle it. There were many other examples including the CIA, and other intelligence agencies, that often miss what's obvious, again, because of our biases.

We are all prone to the confirmation bias which this thread is typical of. I can't argue too much because I could be considered the same. What's needed is a clear scientific approach.

All we have is our opinions and this debate will never end. My opinion is quite clear, however.

 

[dpdx]

I barely slept last night. yesterday I decided to go around with my friends and walk around the town. I also got a drink at a pub (where music was about 75-80db). Well T has went up. It went up last week to very bad levels when I was walking outside next to a busy road on my way to a park. I have only T in one ear though now. The T in right ear is gone.

 

[Tinniger]

A short question to the advocates of a strict noise avoidance regime:
If only one ear has tinnitus, should only one ear be protected?

 

[dpdx]

I dont understand how I got T in one ear but not the other. When both of them were exposed equally when listening IPOD and while being at the festival.

 

[Ping43]

I believe in a lot of cases, H (I could be wrong) is a result of being in the flight or fight mode. I've read this several times on other sites. When we are in this state all of our senses are enhanced to alert us that there is danger. Its a weird beast that's for sure. In the last two months I've noticed my eye floaters more. They haven't changed and I have had them for as long as I can remember. But being in the constant state of flight or flight my pupils are more dilated causing me to notice them more. But I truly believe once we relax and stop treating the noise as a threat then we can move on and evetually habituate. And I know there are more severe cases of H and if this is the case then you really need to find a specialist that can guide you through it because it is something that can be managed if not cured. I also believe it is not relative easy to make your tinnitus worse. If it was easy then everyone would have severe loud debilitating tinnitus and this just isn't the case. One thing I say to myself everyday is that I am not the first or last person to get tinnitus and H therefore I will habituate and go on to live a happy life. I truly hope everyone here finds peace and move forward.

 

[Bill Bauer]

When I posted this back in June, some people got the moderators to delete the thread. Now their tactic seems to derail the thread and post off topic. In order to see the relevant posts (the ones that mention experiences that we can learn from) in this thread (right now those are posts #1, #17, #32 (@New Guy 's post), #34 (@Autumnly 's post), #39 (@Mellow7 's post), #48 (@lena_ 's post), #50 (@TracyJS 's post), #62(@dpdx 's post).

To make it easier to read the first three pages of this thread (and possibly the pages that come after that), what you can do is click on the usernames of fishbone, Ed209, and Michael Leigh and then click the "Ignore" text link (after you finish reading this thread, don't forget to "Unignore" them by hovering your mouse over your own username, clicking "People you ignore" text link and then clicking "Stop Ignoring"). After you read posts #1 and #17, you can temporarily add me to the People You Ignore list too, to help you to read this thread.

 

[Tinker Bell]

If you click the arrow, it takes you to the original post, so you can read the whole thread and understand the post in context.

Yes, I mentioned that earlier on the thread. That still leaves out relevant information that does not help members. Hopefully the author will take the time to address the 30 questions for the 30 quoted members. Otherwise this remains a thread of quotes, and that is not very helpful.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Lex suffers from severe hyperacusis. Her quotes are in reference to her hyperacusis, not her tinnitus. A member who does not know her background might assume the quote you linked is referencing tinnitus.

You are on my Ignore list, so I am seeing your posts only now. If I remember correctly, Lex's H became debilitating after that incident at the mall. I am not sure what point you are trying to make.

Because not all of the quoted members are on this thread

Thus far, three or four of those members made posts in this thread, and none of them seem to believe that they had been quoted out of context.

If we are expected to learn from the mistakes of others, then we need to fully understand the circumstances.

1. Onset of tinnitus date

Why are you choosing this thread to make this point? Using your logic, every single person making a post on this forum ought to answer these questions. Just because other people's circumstances are not identical to my circumstances doesn't mean I can't learn from their experiences. Having said that, I agree - if we were to have that information, it would be very helpful. To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, we have to make decisions based on the information that we actually have, and not based on the information we Wish we had.

My tinnitus is louder today and was last night.

I just don't know what to do.

Listen to what your body is trying to tell you. If you protect your ears, eventually they will get well enough and not require as much protection.

this thread only serves to illustrate the functionality of the search feature and cutting and pasting

As I had pointed out earlier, I got most of those quotes by reading this forum for 15 months and saving posts that I found to be interesting. People should be aware about those experiences. When someone starts quoting dB levels that are considered to be safe for healthy people, you should remember this thread and realize that what is safe for a healthy person might not be safe for one of us.

If you start getting spikes as a result of walking down a noisy street, the natural reaction is to think - "it can't be the case that something like that can have an impact on my tinnitus." As a result, the person might continue ignoring the signals from his or her body, and continue doing what is hurting his or her ears. However, after reading this thread, the person will be aware that this is a Possibility. Then the person will have an option to act accordingly. So here is at least one positive thing that might come as a result of reading this thread. There are more benefits (already voiced in other posts by others), and what you wrote above proves that you haven't read those posts.

 

[TracyJS]

@Bill Bauer
Yes, but what kind of protection??
I will be driving home today.
Musicians ear plugs?
Foam ear plugs?

 

[Tinniger]

The author is trying to prove that tinnitus sufferers are more susceptible to renewed noise than healthy hearers.
This may be the case for tinnitus sufferers with auditory trauma.
However, at most 40% of those affected by tinnitus are certain that they have tinnitus as a result of noise.
Many of those affected have better and worse days. Good days when they don't know about tinnitus for hours and bad days when they go crazy due to the intensity of the tinnitus.
In my poll: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...nnitus-days-do-you-know-the-phenomenon.26542/ the vast majority voted for a randomness of "bad days". This is to ensure that there is no connection between temporary deterioration and any other circumstance, even when tracked carefully.
In addition to noise, there may be other reasons for a spike: Diet, meals, sodium, sugar, hydration, caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, wheater, barometric pressure, medications, supplements, exercise, sleep, quality of sleep, sleeping position, stress...
In my opinion, blaming noise alone as the cause of all evil is a one-dimensional view of a complex problem like tinnitus.

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Bill Bauer
Yes, but what kind of protection??
I will be driving home today.
Musicians ear plugs?
Foam ear plugs?

@TracyJS hope you don't mind me saying: avoid using foam plugs at all cost. If your ears feel sensitive try using the "noise reducting" plugs. Try not to use them too often.

Michael

 

[Bill Bauer]

@Bill Bauer
Yes, but what kind of protection??
I will be driving home today.
Musicians ear plugs?
Foam ear plugs?

If I were you, I would use foam ear plugs.

you don't mind me saying: avoid using foam plugs at all cost.

Michael is saying this because he believes that using foam earplugs can lead to hyperacusis. I used foam earplugs and my hyperacusis had disappeared. I made sure to listen to TV at moderate volume every day. Michael had never been able to explain why "plugs + listening to TV at moderate volume" is not a viable strategy.

 

[Michael Leigh]

If I were you, I would use foam ear plugs.

Michael is saying this because he believes that using foam earplugs can lead to hyperacusis. I used foam earplugs and my hyperacusis had disappeared. I made sure to listen to TV at moderate volume every day. Michael had never been able to explain why "plugs + listening to TV at moderate volume" is not a viable strategy.

@Bill Bauer

Please do not assume what I think regarding the use of foam earplugs. I do not believe or recall me ever writing, that the use of foam earplugs will cause hyperacusis. That is just rediculous. The use of foam plugs is not what I would recommend for Tracy, as It will make her brain focus more on the tinnitus by blocking off sounds from the outside environment. It is also possible they will give her a feeling of isolation and increase the feeling or noise of her inner auditory system. The human body is a noisy place, the last thing one wants to do, is allow the brain to focus on this.

Michael

 

[TracyJS]

@Bill Bauer
I have noticed since I started protecting a bit more my hyperacusis has increased. I listen to the tv at a moderate volume every day.

I wish I knew what to do.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Please do not assume what I think regarding the use of foam earplugs.

Sorry.

I listen to the tv at a moderate volume every day.

You want to set the volume to be as high as possible, while still allowing you to watch TV for several hours and not get a spike.

If your tinnitus increases when you don't use hearing protection, and your hyperacusis gets worse when you use hearing protection, then you choose the action that results in the least distress for you...

 

[Bill Bauer]

The author is trying to prove that tinnitus sufferers are more susceptible to renewed noise than healthy hearers.
This may be the case for tinnitus sufferers with auditory trauma.
However, at most 40% of those affected by tinnitus are certain that they have tinnitus as a result of noise.

I've seen the ideas above voiced in other posts by other people. Here is another benefit of this thread - we can use it to bust myths like that. The users below were quoted in the first post in this thread. The list of the causes of their T is as follows:

Gman - ear wax
Yborleevoor - "maybe stress, maybe depression"
Alvise - sudden hearing loss
derpytia - hearing loss/ETD

So it appears that even the folks whose T is not a result of acoustic trauma can benefit from the cautionary tales in this thread.

In my poll: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...nnitus-days-do-you-know-the-phenomenon.26542/ the vast majority voted for a randomness of "bad days".

I am not sure what your point is. The over thirty people I quoted, don't believe that their spikes were random. They know exactly what had caused those spikes - and they are the best people to be able to make that judgement. When you get ear fullness the second after the noise stops (or right after the noise begins), and get T the next day - you KNOW what caused your spike.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I have noticed since I started protecting a bit more my hyperacusis has increased. I listen to the tv at a moderate volume every day.

I wish I knew what to do.

Life Is Problematic

I have spoken to many people that have intrusive tinnitus. Some that are new to its sudden onset, and others that have habituated for a while, but for some reason a resurgence of the tinnitus has lasted longer than a spike, and has left them feeling insecure and with the believe that things wont improve. I just want to say that I have also been in these situations.

At times like this, one might find themselves thinking: My life is over. Why can't they find a cure? Why did this happen to me? A while back I spoke to someone on the telephone that was new to tinnitus and having a particularly difficult time coping with it. He mentioned: every time that he's out he can't stop looking at people's ears and wondering what it would be like to be them and not hear the sound of roaring tinnitus.

I explained that even the most optimistic and successful people have down times and they don't necessarily have tinnitus, for life is problematic and few of us go through it without problems. We have no idea what another person is going through so be careful what you wish for. He continued listening. I know tinnitus isn't easy especially when it's severe but hold on to the thought that it will improve. I still had his attention so continued.

In an attempt to make him feel better I mentioned that life throws challenges at us and puts obstacles in our way. Perhaps if everything came easily to us we would never grow and develop and in some cases not reach our full potential without some struggle, or appreciate the good things that we have in life. He mentioned that he was a maths teacher, happily married with two children and had a business with his brother. He agreed that things hadn't always gone smoothly but overcoming certain problems and issues in his life seemed to make everything worth while, until he got tinnitus. I understood where he was coming from, but at the same time trying to reassure him that things would improve although it may take a little time.

His doctor prescribed an antidepressant but he didn't want to take them and asked me what I thought. It wasn't my place to advise him on this issue but I told him of my experience with medications, that I took to help manage my tinnitus that my ENT doctor prescribed.

When I first had tinnitus I had taken antidepressants for a while, which helped me not to become too down. In later years I was prescribed clonazapam 2x 0.5mg when my tinnitus was severely intrusive. It helped a lot. I was advised of it's addictive nature and closely monitored by my GP. I mentioned, I take them now only when the tinnitus is severe for up to three days by then the tinnitus usually subsides or reduces to complete silence.

This gentleman kept in touch and told me he decided to take the anti-depressants. Then he went quiet for long while. One evening I got a call from him, telling me his tinnitus had reduced and was improving all the time and that he had returned to work. He felt content and happy that he was able to move on with his life.

Michael

 

[Jiri]

I believe @Jiri got a serious spike following the incident that he had described below

True.

This thread has turned basically into this thread again: Protecting? Overprotecting? Not protecting? and unless you have x-men wolverine's gene type of healing powers, it's gonna be merry-go-round topic of a discussion on TT.

The only person I can think right off the top of my head who had twice bad acoustic trauma that resulted in tinnitus, and now recovered 95% is @jjflyman , so why not ask him for advice?

How about this? This topic is already a never ending story. There are academics on this forum. Let's do a small reasearch project then, using both qualitative and quantitative methods of analysis. It'd be a peer-reviewed paper and let's have it published in a reputable tinnitus journal. 5000 words ish limit?

This could make a real difference and would draw more attention to this issue from other professionals in the field.

Findings would be reported using an empirical report structure (IMRD): Introduction, Methods, Results and Discussion sections.

Just an idea...

 

[Wolfears]

@Bill Bauer
I have noticed since I started protecting a bit more my hyperacusis has increased. I listen to the tv at a moderate volume every day.

I wish I knew what to do.

It's a fine balancing act...protect too much and you will get too sensitive to sound...protect too little and you are risking a spike.
In my initial stages I was wearing electronic earmuffs (same kind they wear at the gun range) and they served me well.
They let in certain amount of decibels that would not harm me, but if there was a sudden loud noise, I was protected.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Let's do a small reasearch project then, using both qualitative and quantitative methods of analysis. It'd be a peer-reviewed paper and let's have it published in a reputable tinnitus journal.

That's like saying "Let's open a business and become millionaires." Easier said than done... But then again, perhaps the "reputable tinnitus journals" are not as demanding as the reputable journals in my discipline.

 

[dayma]

I can't say I have heard anything from reputable physicians that going beyond normal hearing protection can do anything for T. I am personally friends with multiple ENTs that have been helping me and learned a lot from them.

If you feel like you need to overprotect , go for it , but for me it's just avoid concert type loudness etc....

 

[Bill Bauer]

I can't say I have heard anything from reputable physicians that going beyond normal hearing protection can do anything for T.

First of all

http://hyperacusisfocus.org/research/earplug-use-2/
"While there are over 2200 posts on hyperacusis setbacks in the patient forum on chat-hyperacusis.net, no academic papers could be found using a pubmed search."

The fact that there have been no published studies regarding what causes permanent and temporary T spikes, means there is no scientific reason behind doctor advice to only protect your ears against noises that are known to damage the inner ear. They are basing this advice on studies that talk about what can damage healthy ears, whereas what can hurt us hasn't been studied (and the overwhelming number of testimonies on this site imply that sounds that can hurt us are Way quieter than the sounds that can damage healthy ears).

and second of all

Doctor: Don't confuse your Google search with my 6 years at a medical school.

Patient: Don't confuse the 1-hour lecture you had on my condition with my 20 years of living with it.

 

[dayma]

First of all

and second of all

I was talking T not hyperacausis

 

[dayma]

second of all

I am in the medical industry. Lol. Ty for talking down to me

 

[Jomo]

Bill i am sorry but i disagree with the way you go about handling tinnitus...you are extreme...i am not trying to put you down..I am just stating what I feel...as long as you have proper protection (CUSTOM FITTED MUSICIAN EARPLUGS) you will have no issues. You definitely need to change your lifestyle a bit and you need to be weary of loud bass (so skip the club and go to a bar).

Throughout my year and a half (i believe) I have gone to weddings and i have gone to bars and loud places...I dont do this regularly but this past week I went to a strip club with my friends for a bachelor party and i had no issues at all..i got married last year and even attended my own wedding and bachelor party where I played drums in a studo with my friends and then went to a bar in the city and then went to a strip club and didnt come home till 4 in the morning...i have had NO setbacks and NO spikes...if anything my T has improved so much i dont even notice it anymore except at night !!! When i go out i usually dont wear my plugs unless i am going into the city or loud restaurant..in a mall or store i usually dont wear them. An exception would be when i go to warehouse type store such as home depot and cotsco...those places sometimes slam big crates full of heavy stuff (i had it happen before with no protection and i felt the whole inside of my ears shake...not fun)...I always do my best to use proper caution...whenever in doubt I put my plugs on...once again i have had NO setbacks....even when i have had loud accidents it never results in a spike lasting days...in the beginning it would last for a few hours (tried to swat a mosquito)...but as time goes on and you expose yourself little by little the hyperacusis gets better...another thing that I do that probably helps as well is I drink pineapple juice every day...its the best natural anti inflammatory you will find and tastes great...I have no proof to suggest that there is a correlation but i really believe it has helped me alot. Other than that, all I want to say is dont be afraid to live your life...i am proof that you definitively can

 

[Bill Bauer]

I was talking T not hyperacausis

I was also talking about T, too. Are you saying that there HAD been studies done about what causes T to spike?

for talking down to me

Sorry you feel this way. I wasn't talking down to you. I was just pointing out that when doctors do stuff like referring someone with mild T to have a test done that ends up causing severe T

The major blow happened on Jan 15 when I did the caloric test which got me severe h and t which didnt improve one bit since.

(in this case, the test is safe for healthy people, but is Clearly/painfully obvious not safe for people with T), you get
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...orum-more-useful-than-your-ents-advice.28006/

The bottom line, there hasn't been much research done on T, and as a result all the doctors know is that T is incurable.

 

[Alue]

All of this is so confusing for me.
I drove yesterday to a support meeting.
It was an hour away on busy Chicago area streets
I didn't wear ear protection.
I drive a 2016 Ford Fusion sedan.
The meeting was a bit loud for me. People taking with loud voices. A heavy door opening and closing. It bothered me.
Then I drove home without protection.
My tinnitus is louder today and was last night.

I just don't know what to do.
Should I wear ear protection driving?
At the grocery store?
If, so what kind? Foam blues, musicians filtered plugs? Muffs?

Also, my hyperacusis seems to be worsening. I'm more sensitive to everyday sounds than I was before. Toilet flushing, doors closing ect.

I need to go out into the world.
I don't go to places with loud music or anything.

This debate just makes me so confused on what to do.

I agree it's difficult to know where to draw the line, and I think it has to be done on an individual basis because we are all different and some of us don't have the same noise tolerance as others. I do think some go overboard with protection on this forum, but others don't seem to realize that what might be okay for them might be too much for people with hyperacusis.

Even if it caused a spike, I doubt what you've described would be damaging in any way. I've experienced many temporary spikes like what you have described, and all but one have been a temporary increase for me. The one time I had a worsening I knew it was uncomfortably loud, but I stuck it out because it was at work. It wasn't a spike in volume but a whole new tone that has not gone away. Spikes in volume come and go for a lot of different reasons. I know it's hard to do, but it's best to not stress about them especially if they only last a few hours or a few days.

 

[Bill Bauer]

it's best to not stress about them especially if they only last a few hours or a few days.

I agree that one shouldn't panic upon getting a spike. However, if one stops trying to avoid the circumstances that cause spikes, I believe that one might live to regret it.

 

[Adzy]

In the first week of my on-set my ringing was low. I had my window rolled down. A car revved hard and it was very sensitive to my ear. I cringed and instinctively put my hand to my ear. I also noticed my ringing was louder once I removed my hand. It really pissed me off, although the guy didn't do anything that would've bothered me before. So could it be that in NEWER on-sets the ear is more sensitive to this and we should take more pre-caution. Like an open wound that is still healing. I agree with Bill and I take ear plugs with me just in case now. My AC had a small ring today that bugged the hell out of me, never noticed before. But unlike a wound that has already fused, healed or closed you may be okay to do whatever. I had a back fracture early life. Couldn't do anything for about a year while in a back brace. After it healed, there was scar tissue and stiffness, but I could get back to things. So in this sense, both may be right in a way. HOWEVER, I re-hurt my back in the same spot a couple years ago. Muscular this time. I didn't care for it or for stretching. I've been doing yoga since November, and my back is more better than ever which was a surprise. If its been 3 decades of T and you are were you are, I can see your point. You still have to live life and not stay stuck in a shell. But if you're not even a year in, might want to be extra careful in the case its still in healing mode. If I was diagnosed with permanent T, I would still be re-searching and trying to figure it out, but thats just me. I think my situation is ETD, because neti pot has brought my spike down about 80% as of today. I will likely be done with it very soon. I've always worn ear protection for construction purpose and never been big on loud music to the ears or anything. Been to one hardcore concert in my life. So I guess those were smart ot lucky decisions made, like wearing ear plugs for the time being. But lets not kill Bill for warning others. Its not fear mongering. I think he's absolutely right to a certain crowd.