Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

[ruud1boy]

My tinnitus is freaking killing me right now. I'm quickly losing faith. I have a scheduled call with Neuromod next week.
I think it's the white noise hiss. Piano tunes and chirps are ok.

This'll probably make jack all difference for you, but I don't hear it as 'white noise' - to me, it's heavy rain. I think there are faint rumbles of thunder buried beneath it all as well. I'm probably conditioned to hear that as my SoundOasis is set to 'distant thunderstorm on a remote lake', so I'm used to hearing heavy rain for 8 hours a day.
They reckon nature sounds are more readily acceptable to the brain, as that's what you're used to from an evolutionary standpoint. Maybe thinking of the noise differently might get it past your tinnitus triggers?

FWIW I'm still in my first week of treatment - I've done 9 sessions so far - but I haven't had any adverse affects and my whistling friend has been at the lower end of my normal range so far. I'm trying not to examine it too carefully, but I'm cautiously optimistic. That said, now I've posted this, tomorrow will probably be horrendous.

 

[ruud1boy]

Can anyone tell me the loudness of the sounds in dB you have to listen to via the headphones?

At a very rough guess, I would say around 60 dB. They set the device according to your hearing profile, but you can increase or decrease the volume using the controller. It's not particularly loud at the default setting, but I've taken to clicking the volume down by 2 notches on every session - probably just me being overly cautious.

 

[TheDanishGirl]

If @Redknight has had tinnitus for 5 months it can hardly be coincidence that it's fading now just when he started the treatment.

Of course it can.

And good for you that you have the means to throw money on every device that's going to come out. Just remember not everybody is that financially privileged.

 

[annV]

And good for you that you have the means to throw money on every device that's going to come out. Just remember not everybody is that financially privileged.

It's sad people like @Sironketchup are apparently loaded yet haven't bothered giving this great forum a few dollars. In the meanwhile a financially struggling person like yourself have given from what little you have. World is crazy... (I pledge to donate to Tinnitus Talk next week and I still need to send my boobs to all of you too!!)

With regards to Lenire's efficacy, remember that there's also the placebo effect.

When is the peer review publication coming out? I wonder if the delayed publication is because the treatment might not be effective?

 

[Cojackb]

@Cojackb

How are you all getting on with your devices?

Everything was going well but as of last night I'm having one of the most severe spikes since my tinnitus got worse this year. Nothing to do with Lenire, I went to a friend's last night and completely misread the volume of the people, background music and other things.

Really not sure whether to take a few days off the treatment to let things settle again (touch wood) or just to keep pressing forward but reduce the volume.

Up until this point things had been going well. So hopefully will get back on track as soon as possible.

 

[Mathew Gould]

Of course it can.

And good for you that you have the means to throw money on every device that's going to come out. Just remember not everybody is that financially privileged.

I can't imagine having to work and having little money while having tinnitus. Having little kids would be tough too.

 

[Redknight]

At a very rough guess, I would say around 60 dB. They set the device according to your hearing profile, but you can increase or decrease the volume using the controller. It's not particularly loud at the default setting, but I've taken to clicking the volume down by 2 notches on every session - probably just me being overly cautious.

It varies from person to person, mine's only about 30 dB.

 

[Allan1967]

This'll probably make jack all difference for you, but I don't hear it as 'white noise' - to me, it's heavy rain. I think there are faint rumbles of thunder buried beneath it all as well. I'm probably conditioned to hear that as my SoundOasis is set to 'distant thunderstorm on a remote lake', so I'm used to hearing heavy rain for 8 hours a day.
They reckon nature sounds are more readily acceptable to the brain, as that's what you're used to from an evolutionary standpoint. Maybe thinking of the noise differently might get it past your tinnitus triggers?

FWIW I'm still in my first week of treatment - I've done 9 sessions so far - but I haven't had any adverse affects and my whistling friend has been at the lower end of my normal range so far. I'm trying not to examine it too carefully, but I'm cautiously optimistic. That said, now I've posted this, tomorrow will probably be horrendous.

Trouble for me is rain sounds are a trigger, especially shower water.

 

[EDDTEKK]

It is really dubious why the peer review hasn't been completed and published. We don't know the background and can only speculate.

But, I know if something is a breakthrough treatment which works for 80% of patients, you should expect to have this process finished as soon as possible, in addition to publishing in all scientific journals.

Since this hasn't been done, I am asking myself about Lenire's efficacy.

 

[Cal18]

Trouble for me is rain sounds are a trigger, especially shower water.

Please keep us posted on if they are able to remove the white noise sound. I also get increased tinnitus from the same types of sounds.

 

[Mentos]

I can't imagine having to work and having little money while having tinnitus. Having little kids would be tough too.

I do work and I have a little kid while having tinnitus, honestly I can't imagine not to work and not having family, both are great distractions from tinnitus.

 

[GlennS]

Be advised that I'm not responsible for managing your broad assumptions.

Part of any effective communication is paying attention to when the people are trying to politely clue you in that you're being a little obnoxious.

 

[Daniel Lion]

I can't imagine having to work and having little money while having tinnitus. Having little kids would be tough too.

Welcome to my world.

Little kids, little money, tinnitus, hyperacusis.
It's a blast.

My mistake for pursuing fine arts and then becoming a teacher.
Loser professions for money.

 

[AfroSnowman]

It is really dubious why the peer review hasn't been completed and published. We don't know the background and can only speculate.

But, I know if something is a breakthrough treatment which works for 80% of patients, you should expect to have this process finished as soon as possible, in addition to publishing in all scientific journals.

Since this hasn't been done, I am asking myself about Lenire's efficacy.

It's been more than a decade since I was last involved in academia, but my recollection of the publication process was very slow, sometimes more than a year between submission and actual publication.

It takes time to publish in scientific journals. There is lots of back and forth as the reviewers request clarifications, bring up issues, etc. and then the PI and team have to go back both address the questions and then rewrite the paper. Remember the journals aren't publishing for us, but for other researchers so while the raw numbers of positive cases may be what is important to us, they care just as much about different statistical models and methodologies.

That being said it does make me a little leery that we haven't seen the raw data yet. Mitigating my concern is the PI seems like a legit researcher who wouldn't want to damage his career over huckerism and that the University of Michigan data which is clearly using a similar approach was published with that sort of 80% success rate, plus University of Minnesota is also following the mechanisms.

These are all reasons why I'd like to give my appreciation to those who share their experiences, good and bad, with this device. Thanks to you gals and guys while I wait my turn to give it a try.

 

[Meiro]

Even Dr. Berthold Langguth didn't know about a month ago when it will be launched in Germany, besides the fact that he is working closely with Neuromod.

How do you know that Dr. Berthold Langguth didn't know about it? Any proof?

Thanks.

 

[JohnAdams]

No disrespect intended but you joined tail end of May, have only made 8 posts and they're all on Lenire. 5 sessions is the equivalent of 2 days and one morning.

How do we know you're genuine and not an employee of Neuromod?

Why would a company post fake reviews about the quality of their product on the internet?

View attachment 31472

Wow amazing proof. I'm convinced!

 

[Ruse]

No disrespect intended but you joined tail end of May, have only made 8 posts and they're all on Lenire. 5 sessions is the equivalent of 2 days and one morning.

How do we know you're genuine and not an employee of Neuromod?

In fairness surely an employee of Neuromod wouldn't have the audacity to claim they have success within 48 hours of starting treatment!

 

[El BUZZ]

@Redknight @Allan1967

The way you describe the sounds provided by Lenire makes me think of those you can get from a free app called ReSound Relief. White noise, heavy rain, chirping, piano chords...

Please, give it a try and let us know if they are the same. Could you?

 

[Allan1967]

In fairness surely an employee of Neuromod wouldn't have the audacity to claim they have success within 48 hours of starting treatment!

I suspect it's more about cancelling out a negative post. People are easily swayed.

 

[Heinrich_S7]

I suspect it's more about cancelling out a negative post. People are easily swayed.

One of my gut feeling concerns is that the reason Neuromod is so hush hush is because they know it doesn't work. Thus the reason they aren't speaking to anyone.

I know I have nothing to base that on, but it's awfully fishy that they're being this tight lipped almost 3 months out now...

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

I suspect it's more about cancelling out a negative post. People are easily swayed.

One of my gut feeling concerns is that the reason Neuromod is so hush hush is because they know it doesn't work. Thus the reason they aren't speaking to anyone.

I know I have nothing to base that on, but it's awfully fishy that they're being this tight lipped almost 3 months out now...

I have been uncomfortable with their behavior in general. Even the interview came across as slightly defensive. It doesn't necessarily mean it won't work but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

 

[Codaz]

One of my gut feeling concerns is that the reason Neuromod is so hush hush is because they know it doesn't work. Thus the reason they aren't speaking to anyone.

I know I have nothing to base that on, but it's awfully fishy that they're being this tight lipped almost 3 months out now...

Well transparency is key, but look at other Tinnitus Centres. They have not been very open either.

 

[JohnAdams]

I suspect it's more about cancelling out a negative post. People are easily swayed.

Based on the available information, isn't it obvious?

 

[JohnAdams]

One of my gut feeling concerns is that the reason Neuromod is so hush hush is because they know it doesn't work. Thus the reason they aren't speaking to anyone.

I know I have nothing to base that on, but it's awfully fishy that they're being this tight lipped almost 3 months out now...

Berthold Langguth: Scientific Advisory Board for Neuromod.
https://www.neuromoddevices.com/company/clinical-advancement#scienceadvisory

Berthold Langguth: Principal Investigator for the clinical trial.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02669069

Truth, facts.

 

[Chinmoku]

One of my gut feeling concerns is that the reason Neuromod is so hush hush is because they know it doesn't work. Thus the reason they aren't speaking to anyone.

I know I have nothing to base that on, but it's awfully fishy that they're being this tight lipped almost 3 months out now...

We have a plot with some aggregate data in reduction a few pages back. We also have forum members who are experiencing positive results. We have members who benefited from trials with similar approaches in the US. It won't work for everyone and for some people the reduction will be limited but I don't think we can say it just doesn't work.

 

[Mentos]

One of my gut feeling concerns is that the reason Neuromod is so hush hush is because they know it doesn't work. Thus the reason they aren't speaking to anyone.

I know I have nothing to base that on, but it's awfully fishy that they're being this tight lipped almost 3 months out now...

I remember you being pretty optimistic about Lenire, even saying that in mild cases it might knock the tinnitus out.

What changed for you to become so reserved about Lenire? Based on current user experiences it seems for 4 users it does something for their tinnitus in a positive way. The only exception being @Allan1967 for whom it spiked his tinnitus which we all hope will return back to baseline for him.

 

[Cojackb]

One of my gut feeling concerns is that the reason Neuromod is so hush hush is because they know it doesn't work. Thus the reason they aren't speaking to anyone.

I know I have nothing to base that on, but it's awfully fishy that they're being this tight lipped almost 3 months out now...

The team at Lenire are VERY transparent in the fact this might NOT work for everybody. If this is a scam, it is one of THE MOST invested and convincing scams I've ever seen. Involvement from some of the leading Tinnitus experts, tens of millions of Euros of investment. I'm also not even sure if you can get FDA approval on medical devices without substantiating evidence of its effectiveness.

I understand the need for caution, considering the amount of "cures" and "breakthrough treatments" all over the internet but having met these people twice now and using their device, I can assure you they believe in what they're doing.

Even if this treatment doesn't work for me, I'd still recommend these people to anybody who is willing to take a chance at some kind of improvement.

I also suspect that Lenire need real world testimonials and results if they're to begin marketing or pushing their product further afield.

Stay optimistic

PS, I know you didn't use the word Scam, I just couldn't think of anything else to label the situation with. Just so you're aware I'm not trying to put words in your mouth! Sorry!

 

[Mentos]

The team at Lenire are VERY transparent in the fact this might NOT work for everybody. If this is a scam, it is one of THE MOST invested and convincing scams I've ever seen. Involvement from some of the leading Tinnitus experts, tens of millions of Euros of investment. I'm also not even sure if you can get FDA approval on medical devices without substantiating evidence of its effectiveness.

I understand the need for caution, considering the amount of "cures" and "breakthrough treatments" all over the internet but having met these people twice now and using their device, I can assure you they believe in what they're doing.

Even if this treatment doesn't work for me, I'd still recommend these people to anybody who is willing to take a chance at some kind of improvement.

I also suspect that Lenire need real world testimonials and results if they're to begin marketing or pushing their product further afield.

Stay optimistic

PS, I know you didn't use the word Scam, I just couldn't think of anything else to label the situation with. Just so you're aware I'm not trying to put words in your mouth! Sorry!

How is your tinnitus by the way? Did it return to baseline (or below) after the recent spike you experienced?

 

[Cojackb]

How is your tinnitus by the way? Did it return to baseline (or below) after the recent spike you experienced?

It's gradually getting quieter again yes, it's much closer to baseline than it was Friday night and I'm sleeping again mostly so that's a plus.

Honestly, the treatment seems to have helped - each time I had a session the spike seemed much calmer afterwards.

 

[KotaDomowa]

We are difficult patients. We have been cheated (and, more broadly, mistreated) so often that we no longer trust anyone.