Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

[Watasha]

Oh no, it's coming. Time to panic about what I'll do if it doesn't work for me!

I know we haven't communicated much directly but it may help to focus on achieving habituation first. Putting hopes into something that may or may not work is only going to impede that. There are going to be people happy and disappointed with this product, it's inevitable. We should continue the push for research/treatments/cures/awareness while trying to habituate in my opinion. If a cure comes along, awesome!

 

[Helheim]

Germany, nice! Seems like I might not have to fly after all! If only they had it in Austria, it's right next door...

 

[Heinrich_S7]

Oh no, it's coming. Time to panic about what I'll do if it doesn't work for me!

Look at it like this, it worked for 4 out of 5 people, the odds are highly in your favor. But even if it doesn't work, this treatment will bring tons of new publicity into developing more treatments for different forms of tinnitus. If this device doesn't work for you, perhaps Susan Shore's will.

 

[KotaDomowa]

If a bit of non-invasive vagus nerve stimulation helped me a bit, does it mean I'm susceptible to electrostimulation and Lenire will help me more? Or is this serious over-interpretation...?

 

[Tanni]

I know we haven't communicated much directly but it may help to focus on achieving habituation first. Putting hopes into something that may or may not work is only going to impede that. There are going to be people happy and disappointed with this product, it's inevitable. We should continue the push for research/treatments/cures/awareness while trying to habituate in my opinion. If a cure comes along, awesome!

You're right of course. But I just can't imagine it happening.

I had habituated to the mild-ish tinnitus I started with, so I know first hand that it's possible, but the problem is that it has spread and continued to get worse - in fact, it fluctuates every minute of the day and I continually have to adapt to try to deal with it - so for me the possibility of being able to have a bit of a handle on it is so important. Because at the moment it worsens out of my control and that's a horrible feeling.

But enough doom and gloom. Fingers crossed that we all see relief soon!

 

[Tanni]

Look at it like this, it worked for 4 out of 5 people, the odds are highly in your favor. But even if it doesn't work, this treatment will bring tons of new publicity into developing more treatments for different forms of tinnitus. If this device doesn't work for you, perhaps Susan Shore's will.

You're right, thank you. I'm a pretty negative thinker, so I like to prepare myself for the worst

4/5 - didn't know it was that high! Awesome.

 

[hans799]

A point from Neuromod's email update today that wasn't covered yet: their new director appointees are people who have 1. a lot of experience getting medical devices certified 2. a lot of experience with medical device supply chains and manufacturing.

Neuromod might proceed slower than we hoped for but I'm completely confident that they got what it takes. The data is hard and encouraging, trademark secured, expertise to launch at scale in place, plans becoming more and more concrete. We're on the right track here. I plan to be among the first patients and I'll keep a journal here complete with photos, measurements and so on.

 

[Tanni]

A point from Neuromod's email update today that wasn't covered yet: their new director appointees are people who have 1. a lot of experience getting medical devices certified 2. a lot of experience with medical device supply chains and manufacturing.

Neuromod might proceed slower than we hoped for but I'm completely confident that they got what it takes. The data is hard and encouraging, trademark secured, expertise to launch at scale in place, plans becoming more and more concrete. We're on the right track here. I plan to be among the first patients and I'll keep a journal here complete with photos, measurements and so on.

Have you seen their photo on Twitter? They look like they mean business

I was wondering which one of us will be first to try - can't wait to hear how you get on!

 

[Allan1967]

A point from Neuromod's email update today that wasn't covered yet: their new director appointees are people who have 1. a lot of experience getting medical devices certified 2. a lot of experience with medical device supply chains and manufacturing.

Neuromod might proceed slower than we hoped for but I'm completely confident that they got what it takes. The data is hard and encouraging, trademark secured, expertise to launch at scale in place, plans becoming more and more concrete. We're on the right track here. I plan to be among the first patients and I'll keep a journal here complete with photos, measurements and so on.

They've announced they are going global... that's pretty fcukin ballsy and speaks volumes.

 

[dayma]

A point from Neuromod's email update today that wasn't covered yet: their new director appointees are people who have 1. a lot of experience getting medical devices certified 2. a lot of experience with medical device supply chains and manufacturing.

Neuromod might proceed slower than we hoped for but I'm completely confident that they got what it takes. The data is hard and encouraging, trademark secured, expertise to launch at scale in place, plans becoming more and more concrete. We're on the right track here. I plan to be among the first patients and I'll keep a journal here complete with photos, measurements and so on.

I plan on going to Ireland as long as it's possible with a supplier. I was thinking about doing a vLog / YouTube series of the journey. We will see...

 

[nuno1976]

Realistically when will we have the chance to buy the Lenire device?

 

[ringinghours]

I had a hearing test by a audiologist which showed I don't have hearing loss. My tinnitus was likely caused by over-exposure to noise. Will I still be able to use this device when it comes out?

 

[Tanni]

I plan on going to Ireland as long as it's possible with a supplier. I was thinking about doing a vLog / YouTube series of the journey. We will see...

That would be awesome to watch, do it

 

[GlennS]

If a bit of non-invasive vagus nerve stimulation helped me a bit, does it mean I'm susceptible to electrostimulation and Lenire will help me more? Or is this serious over-interpretation...?

Neurostimulation merely establishes a dual connection between the outside world and the brain (sound through ear and electrodes to nerve points). What you DO with that connection is what determines the final outcome. If you look at the presentation you'll see that the stimulation parameters make a big difference. I am not aware of detail of University of Michigan or University of Minnesota's actual parameters. But results from one treatment may not predict results from another.

In Hubert Lim's presentation they showed how mixing up the stimulation half-way through the treatment broke through a plateau. This makes sense as so many elements of human training seem to benefit from variation (especially exercise). But I think this was a hunch on Neuromod's part. Over time I will expect them to continue running more and more experiments to improve the results. I would also expect the data to get picked up by competitors and drive THEM to experiment in different ways. All of this benefits us, the patients. The worst case scenario would be to spend money running through the treatment multiple times. I would prefer if Neuromod granted patients lifetime access to additional treatment cycles should the device go through more evolution. Without that early adopters might be forced to pay and pay again. But to get some improvement now rather than to wait for it to improve to some unknown state is the tradeoff we may all have to make.

 

[KotaDomowa]

I had a hearing test by a audiologist which showed I don't have hearing loss. My tinnitus was likely caused by over-exposure to noise. Will I still be able to use this device when it comes out?

@Clare B also does not have hearing loss (but had tinnitus) and she got silence after the treatment

However, the cause of her tinnitus was unknown.

 

[winstona]

It's time to debate whether to go to Ireland or wait for a local release.

I can be an early adopter if I choose to go but what if the treatment needs further adjustment to the equipment in say, 6 months? I may be losing that further adjustment if I choose to have it set up and go home.

I can wait till this device is released in Canada. But knowing that a Canadian release will most likely lag behind a US release, I fear how long it will take for this to come here. And if and when it gets here, will our audiologists be able to properly configure it? I know at least if I go to Ireland with an authorized Neuromod audiologist, they will set it up right.

Basically if I choose to go to Ireland, I will have a chance to have my life back earlier but may miss out on upgrades. But I get to drink a lot of Guinness everyday when I am there, so that's a bonus.

If I choose to stay and wait, I may have to wait another 1-2 years, probably more! But I save money by not having to pay for the expense of flying to and staying in Dublin. And if the device doesn't work for me, it wouldn't feel like I have flew half the world away for nothing...

Decisions, decisions...

 

[Watasha]

You're right of course. But I just can't imagine it happening.

I had habituated to the mild-ish tinnitus I started with, so I know first hand that it's possible, but the problem is that it has spread and continued to get worse - in fact, it fluctuates every minute of the day and I continually have to adapt to try to deal with it - so for me the possibility of being able to have a bit of a handle on it is so important. Because at the moment it worsens out of my control and that's a horrible feeling.

But enough doom and gloom. Fingers crossed that we all see relief soon!

I hear you. That's got to be tough. Don't underestimate what the brain is capable of in the meantime. Cheers!

 

[annV]

If I choose to stay and wait, I may have to wait another 1-2 years, probably more! But I save money by not having to pay for the expense of flying to and staying in Dublin. And if the device doesn't work for me, it wouldn't feel like I have flew half the world away for nothing...

The trip wouldn't be for nothing.

Ireland is a very nice country! It would be a nice vacation for you at the same time.

I vote you go!

 

[winstona]

The trip wouldn't be for nothing.

Ireland is a very nice country! It would be a nice vacation for you at the same time.

I vote you go!

Yeah, this I know!

Because I just came back from a Dublin, Belfast, Kilkenny trip around 6 months ago! I had a blast with drinking Guinness everyday and touring the Game of Thrones locations lol. Going again simply for vacation will be a little too soon.

I could choose to visit other cities like Cork and Killarney if I go again.

 

[KotaDomowa]

Initially, I thought that Lenire was to be launched first in Ireland and later in Germany. Now it sounds like a parallel launch...?

 

[Jack Straw]

Jack Straw, give it a rest with the memes already. If @annV's source is true it may be out within a month in Ireland.

Link to source?

 

[Don Tinny]

Oh no, it's coming. Time to panic about what I'll do if it doesn't work for me!

Hey! Rauschecker's pill is only 10 years away. LOL.

 

[Allan1967]

It's time to debate whether to go to Ireland or wait for a local release.

I can be an early adopter if I choose to go but what if the treatment needs further adjustment to the equipment in say, 6 months? I may be losing that further adjustment if I choose to have it set up and go home.

I can wait till this device is released in Canada. But knowing that a Canadian release will most likely lag behind a US release, I fear how long it will take for this to come here. And if and when it gets here, will our audiologists be able to properly configure it? I know at least if I go to Ireland with an authorized Neuromod audiologist, they will set it up right.

Basically if I choose to go to Ireland, I will have a chance to have my life back earlier but may miss out on upgrades. But I get to drink a lot of Guinness everyday when I am there, so that's a bonus.

If I choose to stay and wait, I may have to wait another 1-2 years, probably more! But I save money by not having to pay for the expense of flying to and staying in Dublin. And if the device doesn't work for me, it wouldn't feel like I have flew half the world away for nothing...

Decisions, decisions...

I think you'll be expected to return sooner than 6 months and possibly multiple times.

 

[GlennS]

Link to source?

Sorry, Jack. It's a rumor based on her source. If that's not good enough for you, by all means stay cynical and serve us some more Princess Bride nonsense. Some of us don't require this unit to be hand delivered in a bow before we start believing it's real.

 

[winstona]

I think you'll be expected to return sooner than 6 months and possibly multiple times.

I hope not! If that's a requirement it would suck knowing that a fix is available and I won't be able to go because of the repeated trips required.

 

[Jack Straw]

Sorry, Jack. It's a rumor based on her source. If that's not good enough for you, by all means stay cynical and serve us some more Princess Bride nonsense. Some of us don't require this unit to be hand delivered in a bow before we start believing it's real.

I think you are confusing me with someone else.... I have been one of the few fighting against the constant skepticism and negativity around this product for months.

My memes are meant to be funny and not taken seriously.

My only current complaint about Neuromod is that fact that they are terrible about keeping their future patients in the loop. Seeing that they are going to have a market share monopoly on this technology for the next couple of year they can do so without repercussion, because where else will we go. This is a valid thing to be upset about seeing they have been stringing us along with now two different release dates that have passed.

Overall, I am happy and excited for this product, but how they have handled communication is souring.

 

[Heinrich_S7]

I hope not! If that's a requirement it would suck knowing that a fix is available and I won't be able to go because of the repeated trips required.

By the time you'd be set for your second visit, it'll likely already be in the United States/Canada.

 

[pochito]

I think you'll be expected to return sooner than 6 months and possibly multiple times.

Do we know exactly what is supposed to be tuned?
Is it about the sound sequence/timing of the sounds and electric impulse?
Or is it about the audiogram only?

They were just saying that the tuning was about your audiogram if I remember correctly, which is basically an exam with 10% margin error, it means that you can even have better/worse results with some frequencies depending on the place and the technician who is administering your test.

If it is about the audiogram and our hearing I don't think we should need to do many updates as the treatment should at first just be for a few weeks/months. Then maybe if you want/need to redo a "cure" a few years later, then updating makes sense.

And if it is just an update for the sequence timing I hope they are thinking about an online firmware update or something like that. Would be very disappointing if we would need to buy a "new model 2.0" in a few years because they found better patterns.

 

[winstona]

By the time you'd be set for your second visit, it'll likely already be in the United States/Canada.

US? Possibly. Canada? I doubt it. I really hope I am wrong though.

Like for example, the ECG feature on the Apple Watch series 4 is available in the United States and not in Canada because Health Canada hasn't approved it yet. That's an FDA approved feature.

 

[Heinrich_S7]

US? Possibly. Canada? I doubt it. I really hope I am wrong though.

Like for example, the ECG feature on the Apple Watch series 4 is available in the United States and not in Canada because Health Canada hasn't approved it yet. That's an FDA approved feature.

I believe audiology here is private. Either way, I'm 5 minutes from NY state so...