What you describe is remarkably similar to my own experience with tinnitus although I never actually went and got a proper hearing test, only a head X-Ray (presumably to look for a neuroma) when first diagnosed back in '91.Here is my latest hearing test. I would add that I don't seem to hear much above 9kHz. Remember I have had 3 acoustic traumas (as well as too many nights spent in Berghain) so my ears are pretty messed up.
I have mild hyperacusis/noxacusis in my left ear. Like a dull pain that never really goes away. I don't really know how to qualify it. The pain is so random sometimes. Gabapentin seems to help but to I have to say a good pint of beer always seems to make the pain go away
I think they are, providing you don't "dis-improve" them with the wrong settings!So the results are not permanent? Dr. Ross O'Neill said the opposite, he stated the benefits could last at least 12 months after the end of the treatment.
For me you have no hearing loss up to 8 kHz since till 20 dB is considered as normal...Here is my latest hearing test. I would add that I don't seem to hear much above 9kHz. Remember I have had 3 acoustic traumas (as well as too many nights spent in Berghain) so my ears are pretty messed up.
I have mild hyperacusis/noxacusis in my left ear. Like a dull pain that never really goes away. I don't really know how to qualify it. The pain is so random sometimes. Gabapentin seems to help but to I have to say a good pint of beer always seems to make the pain go away
I'm not ready to draw conclusions about all of neuromodulation based solely on Lenire. That being said I wasn't particularly impressed with Susan Shore's improvement charts vs. Lenire although hers didn't (as I recall) feature any worsenings. Minnesota seems the most promising but they seem to be the least heralded and may languish in obscurity.I think the various processes of treating tinnitus, particularly given the very real dangers of patient worsening, is going to be too hit and miss.
This is becoming confusing.
The results above are correct given the data from the patient questionnaires. Note that an "improvement" here is defined as a reduction in TFI of 13 or more points.When looking at the patients who provided complete data (36 patients), 8 of them had no hyperacusis and some hearing loss. Of these, 2 dropped out due to adverse outcomes. All 6 of the remainder had no significant improvement. In fact, the average TFI of these 6 increased rather than reduced (despite the fact that the average across all patients was -13.9).
Hey Daniel,@hans799 How is your hearing loss in a bit more detail? Is it mild? Is it in the higher frequencies or across all?
Hungarian, born and bred! I use an alias simply for privacy, I wouldn't want colleagues or HR googling my name and finding out about my issues with tinnitus. I believe we also have @Kriszti here, too!Btw, are you Hungarian or an expat living in Budapest?
Possibly. Since the 2nd timing lead to spikes my TFI at 12 weeks might have been worse than at 0 weeks. However this is a little bit misleading because the first timing did lead to improvements and now that I'm back on it, I'm doing better again.Hans, are you one of the six in this part of the data PeterPan mentions?
This is exactly my experience. 1st timing works, 2nd actually disimproves.When I filled in the questionnaire, at the end of the 12 week mark, I might have been rather negative compared to how I felt when I started the treatment. The second settings really did not work for me and it felt like all the good progress I had made while on the first settings had been cancelled. But now that I am back on the first settings I can totally see the difference and they definitely work for me.
Hi Hans,@PeterPan would it be possible to compare the 6-week data with baseline for the 6 people who report hearing loss but no hyperacusis? I have a hunch that they might actually have had improvements at that point which were later spoiled by the 2nd timing.
Me neither. I essentially still have faith in the science, and it looks like neuromodulation, at least in its current Lenire format, will help. But the main caveat (not withstanding hyperacusis) seems to be that one's basic hearing profile needs to be intact to get the most benefit. This is something I'm struggling with.I'm not ready to draw conclusions about all of neuromodulation based solely on Lenire.
I haven't heard much from the Minnesota team for some time. I am on their mailing list for a possible next phase study, but I haven't heard much of anything since Hubert Lim started working with Neuromod. Last update around here was that they were looking for engineers to create a wearable device for their treatment. I would say that was probably a year ago or so.Does anyone know how far along the Minnesota device is?
I spoke with Dr. Shore and she said she expects the 2nd trial to be done by early fall. She is unsure when commercialization will occur. She said it is likely that their treatment will have a positive effect if you can modulate your tinnitus.
Unfortunately, I can't modulate mine. Then again, mine is reactive so I'm part of a smaller subset of tinnitus sufferers.
Thanks for clearing this up. If flinching from certain sounds means hyperacusis, or a mild form of it, then I guess I qualify too. The missus has a habit of dragging a metal griddle across the stove causing a brief squealing sound. It's bloody awful and makes me wince!A discussion with @PeterPan has revealed that I've misunderstood the definition of hyperacusis and apparently I have it, too. I often find myself flinching and moving away from and feeling uncomfortable around sounds that don't bother others (e.g. cutlery dinging, weight plates dropped in the gym, etc). After such a sound, my ear often becomes temporarily clogged, like there's some kind of muscle which tightens to protect it (even if it doesn't affect my hearing or spike the tinnitus).
Because there's no physical pain I didn't think this was hyperacusis but I stand corrected. This means that I also fit the "has hyperacusis, but hearing profile is mostly intact" mold that Lenire seems to be most beneficial to.
I'm posting this to correct my earlier statements about not having hyperacusis.
I have a hearing impairment, no hyperacusis, have been using Lenire for 10 months now and it's done jack all for me. The positives I'm taking from this are that at least I do know it doesn't work for me in it's current form and I was fortunate enough to avoid the 1 in 5 chance of worsening.Hans, are you one of the six in this part of the data PeterPan mentions?
This is becoming confusing.
I think that's a question for @Markku and @Hazel. It would be great if Neuromod could share their data with Tinnitus Talk as well (e.g. under some form of non-disclosure).I was wondering, do you think it would be possible to share the data? If I understand correctly there were about 40 respondents. Therefore, people here might be able to scroll through the data themselves and might be able to pick out patterns not reported on? Just an idea.
Yeah, that's right. I'm a Maths Graduate with some statistics, and have been enjoying getting back into the stats!I get the impression he loves stats tho' ;-)
The report is a great piece of work. It shows dedication to bring us the information we need but are not getting from Neuromod. I am truly grateful for your efforts.
Thanks for the compliments. I hope it has been useful.I'd just like to echo the praise for @PeterPan - it's clear there's an enormous amount of work gone into this and it is greatly appreciated
Hi ruud1boy,I have one completely unimportant question - one of the responders in the survey dropped out at 6 weeks because the device broke and couldn't be replaced? Why could it not be replaced? I'd be irked to say the least if a £2k box of tricks packed up after 6 weeks and the supplier refused to replace it.
If they were a US resident then Neuromod doesn't cover replacement.Hi ruud1boy,
It was reported "My tonguetip seems to have shorted out (far ahead of schedule) and so I haven't been able to do the treatment for about 3 weeks now".
I guess it would be covered by warranty but maybe the member who had the problem can elaborate (if they are reading!).
PeterPan
Absolutely. Why is something so promising the least developed for a potential relief from this hideous disorder.Minnesota seems the most promising but they seem to be the least heralded and may languish in obscurity.
Definitely. I think between this and something like FX-322 we're on the road to getting real treatment options.Now, where's Susan Shore's e-mail address...
It's partly due to Neuromod distracting Lim from the Minnesota device, that looked much more interesting than Lenire from the little we know. I wonder if Lim has signed a clause for Neuromod about not working for a competing device for a given time.Absolutely. Why is something so promising the least developed for a potential relief from this hideous disorder.
Yes it is. Same goes for the Hough pill which has existed for what? 5 years? 10 years? Same for FX-322.It's a crime we have people contemplating and sometimes committing suicide while on some dusty shelves in Minnesota they have a device they can calibrate with a brain scan that completely eliminated tinnitus for @kelpiemsp.
I have a bit of hearing loss and I am on PS1 (white noise & piano).One question on the type of sounds that are delivered with Lenire.
I spoke with one patient who told me he had no white noise sounds in PS1 but just piano music. However, other patients here with PS1 mentioned white noise.
Does this depend on hearing loss? Do patients without hearing loss only get the piano music and those with hearing loss the white noise too? Can anyone confirm? Thanks.
@hans799, @pinklights98, @ruud1boy, @alanisnotadj, @MadsWithT, @BigNick and other Lenire users, could you let me know if Lenire's sounds included white noise or not?One question on the type of sounds that are delivered with Lenire.
I spoke with one patient who told me he had no white noise sounds in PS1 but just piano music. However, other patients here with PS1 mentioned white noise.
Does this depend on hearing loss? Do patients without hearing loss only get the piano music and those with hearing loss the white noise too? Can anyone confirm? Thanks.
There is definitely some white noise in PS1.@hans799, @pinklights98, @ruud1boy, @alanisnotadj, @MadsWithT, @BigNick and other Lenire users, could you let me know if Lenire's sounds included white noise or not?
I have heard both versions. I'm sensitive to white noise so I was wondering. Thanks.