Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

[AfroSnowman]

Does anybody know how long the mouthpiece lasts? I read that it should be replaced every half a year or so. Is this true? If so, how much should replacing it cost?

It has an hour count in it, which I think is around 180. In terms of cost, you are looking at ~$350 USD.

 

[dd314]

Lenire seems to be exploding in name recognition and popularity, and I'm starting to question whether the minuscule sample size we have here—from two years ago—is breeding unwarranted skepticism.

Don't get me wrong; I'm still afraid to try it, but thousands of people have now. I just want to see more reviews.

 

[Bob3382]

Most Lenire reviews I can find that are not Neuromod-sponsored are negative, but that might be because people with negative results want to vent their anger at spending $4,500.

 

[WilRic]

Most Lenire reviews I can find that are not Neuromod-sponsored are negative, but that might be because people with negative results want to vent their anger at spending $4,500.

There should be more positive reviews. Truly reducing tinnitus isn't like getting slightly whiter shirts in your laundry. If Lenire worked, a lot more people would be singing its praises.

I hate how much positive media attention it's getting. I wish a journalist would realize that this is basically the Theranos of the tinnitus world. But it's a nuanced story, and investigative journalism is dead. So all we get are recycled press releases from Neuromod.

 

[Bhaveen]

There should be more positive reviews. Truly reducing tinnitus isn't like getting slightly whiter shirts in your laundry. If Lenire worked, a lot more people would be singing its praises.

I hate how much positive media attention it's getting. I wish a journalist would realize that this is basically the Theranos of the tinnitus world. But it's a nuanced story, and investigative journalism is dead. So all we get are recycled press releases from Neuromod.

It must be helping some people. I hope audiologists aren't just recommending something that doesn't work, though I completely appreciate it doesn't work for all.

 

[slc]

Lenire's advertising (which I carefully read a while back) claims to reduce the bothersomeness of tinnitus, not actually reduce tinnitus.

Two different kettles of fish as I see it.

Tinnitus, assuming it is mild or moderate, could be made less bothersome by using sound therapy, engaging in activities where one is in the zone, such as dancing, playing classical guitar, hanging with friends, a good support system, etc. But the tinnitus itself (with the ups and downs that many of us experience in terms of tones and decibel levels) will be essentially unchanged.

That being said, I think a few people have reported on Tinnitus Talk that their tinnitus, not just their response to it, improved. But lots of folks have reported no change, and quite a few found their tinnitus got worse while (and even remained worse) using Lenire.

 

[dd314]

Lenire's advertising (which I carefully read a while back) claims to reduce the bothersomeness of tinnitus, not actually reduce tinnitus.

Two different kettles of fish as I see it.

Tinnitus, assuming it is mild or moderate, could be made less bothersome by using sound therapy, engaging in activities where one is in the zone, such as dancing, playing classical guitar, hanging with friends, a good support system, etc. But the tinnitus itself (with the ups and downs that many of us experience in terms of tones and decibel levels) will be essentially unchanged.

That being said, I think a few people have reported on Tinnitus Talk that their tinnitus, not just their response to it, improved. But lots of folks have reported no change, and quite a few found their tinnitus got worse while (and even remained worse) using Lenire.

"Like the shirt on your back" —Hubert Lim

 

[Yeshua7]

Lindsey Graham prefers the term 'ladybugs'.

That's funny. I understand the reference...

 

[Dizzyhead888]

Has anyone bought Lenire in 2020 and still uses it after this many years? Do you think the device still works safely?

 

[AfroSnowman]

Has anyone bought Lenire in 2020 and still uses it after this many years? Do you think the device still works safely?

I bought it in 2020 and still use it periodically. When I do use it, it is for 2-4 weeks, 30 minutes a day. It does make a difference, but not a game-changing difference for me. When I use it, I get a near immediate and noticeable (within a few days) reduction in tinnitus distress, not a change in symptoms. This impact maxes out within a couple of weeks.

My current theory for how it works is that it decreases the pain response to tinnitus by overstimulating the portions of the brain/auditory system associated with it, so you become desensitized to the sensation. This might also explain worsening cases; I imagine some people don't react well to overstimulation of their tinnitus. It also explains the kind of "meh" non-specific benefits of those it works for because it just makes it feel a little less extreme.

For me, desensitization reaches its maximum impact after a couple of weeks and plateaus, so additional use doesn't have any additional benefit, and the modest benefits usually last for around four weeks. If I am having a really rough stretch, I'll pull it out, and nine times out of 10, I somehow feel a little less rough after a few days, but the benefit is modest and not long-lasting.

 

[RunningMan]

I bought it in 2020 and still use it periodically. When I do use it, it is for 2-4 weeks, 30 minutes a day. It does make a difference, but not a game-changing difference for me. When I use it, I get a near immediate and noticeable (within a few days) reduction in tinnitus distress, not a change in symptoms. This impact maxes out within a couple of weeks.

My current theory for how it works is that it decreases the pain response to tinnitus by overstimulating the portions of the brain/auditory system associated with it, so you become desensitized to the sensation. This might also explain worsening cases; I imagine some people don't react well to overstimulation of their tinnitus. It also explains the kind of "meh" non-specific benefits of those it works for because it just makes it feel a little less extreme.

For me, desensitization reaches its maximum impact after a couple of weeks and plateaus, so additional use doesn't have any additional benefit, and the modest benefits usually last for around four weeks. If I am having a really rough stretch, I'll pull it out, and nine times out of 10, I somehow feel a little less rough after a few days, but the benefit is modest and not long-lasting.

Are you still microdosing Ketamine when you use Lenire? And if so, only when you're using Lenire?

 

[AfroSnowman]

Are you still microdosing Ketamine when you use Lenire? And if so, only when you're using Lenire?

No, I've kind of dropped that. Maybe it had a beneficial effect, especially at a micro-microdosing level, but in the end, my experience with Lenire is what I described above. If I am having a really bad stretch, it is something I can pull out and probably will lower my distress modestly over a week or so. Still, additional use doesn't create additional gain, and maybe the microdosing improved the effect, but like everything with Lenire, not enough to fundamentally change the experience of having severe tinnitus.

 

[GlennS]

Has anyone bought Lenire in 2020 and still uses it after this many years? Do you think the device still works safely?

Anyone remember when the descriptions of its effect said it rewired your brain and hence this would be a one shot treatment???

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

 

[linearb]

Hi y'all.

Some of you may remember I was a lab rat in a UMich study and have generally expressed skepticism about Lenire because of two factors:

• It's a venture-capital-backed thing that has, to my eyes, abused an earlier European clearance for an earlier version of their device (MuteButton) to get EU/US medical-device clearance based on questionable data.
• The decision to use Bluetooth (20-40 ms latency) in a device where synchronization in the <10 ms range matters is idiotic tech-happy nonsense. Even if this can be solved from a technical point of view (it certainly could, with the right kind of communication protocols), it's really stupid to invest that much time in getting radio waves working poorly when a wire "just works."

That said, the UMich stuff worked, and I have found out Lenire is now available closely by; I've got the money stashed in our HSA, so I am just going to go for it. Trip reports are incoming in a few months, I suppose.

I don't really believe this stuff can be damaging in the long term; I think the most significant risk is to my wallet.

My current theory for how it works is that it decreases the pain response to tinnitus by overstimulating the portions of the brain/auditory system associated with it, so you become desensitized to the sensation. This might also explain worsening cases; I imagine some people don't react well to overstimulation of their tinnitus

If it works at all in the same way the UMich stuff does, then it works by causing the dorsal cochlear nerve to rewire itself slightly so that less somatosensory nerves are cross-wired into the nerves that go from the DCN to the auditory cortex.

That's the whole mechanism for this stuff. If that's not what's going on, then the thing is probably an expensive placebo. If that is what's happening, it seems like the effect they are getting is less dramatic than the research Dr. Shore has published.

I'm going to start legal Ketamine therapy soon, but it doesn't have much to do with my tinnitus, and I am not really expecting changes there. My bleary memories from college are that Ketamine and Methoxetamine tend to make my tinnitus worse in the short term.

 

[dd314]

Hi y'all.

Some of you may remember I was a lab rat in a UMich study and have generally expressed skepticism about Lenire because of two factors:

• It's a venture-capital-backed thing that has, to my eyes, abused an earlier European clearance for an earlier version of their device (MuteButton) to get EU/US medical-device clearance based on questionable data.
• The decision to use Bluetooth (20-40 ms latency) in a device where synchronization in the <10 ms range matters is idiotic tech-happy nonsense. Even if this can be solved from a technical point of view (it certainly could, with the right kind of communication protocols), it's really stupid to invest that much time in getting radio waves working poorly when a wire "just works."

That said, the UMich stuff worked, and I have found out Lenire is now available closely by; I've got the money stashed in our HSA, so I am just going to go for it. Trip reports are incoming in a few months, I suppose.

I don't really believe this stuff can be damaging in the long term; I think the most significant risk is to my wallet.

If it works at all in the same way the UMich stuff does, then it works by causing the dorsal cochlear nerve to rewire itself slightly so that less somatosensory nerves are cross-wired into the nerves that go from the DCN to the auditory cortex.

That's the whole mechanism for this stuff. If that's not what's going on, then the thing is probably an expensive placebo. If that is what's happening, it seems like the effect they are getting is less dramatic than the research Dr. Shore has published.

I'm going to start legal Ketamine therapy soon, but it doesn't have much to do with my tinnitus, and I am not really expecting changes there. My bleary memories from college are that Ketamine and Methoxetamine tend to make my tinnitus worse in the short term.

I agree with almost everything you said, but the CEO of Neuromod has a PhD in biomedical engineering and did his undergrad in electrical engineering, and has explicitly stated that the latency has been corrected for.

 

[Nick47]

@linearb, when do you reckon you will get your hands on Auricle? I know you have experience in technology.

Are you still on your medication cocktail with no plan of tapering just yet?

Best wishes,
Nick

I agree with almost everything you said, but the CEO of Neuromod has a PhD in biomedical engineering and did his undergrad in electrical engineering, and has explicitly stated that the latency has been corrected for.

Did he say when this new upgrade was launched? I presume it's already in use, but since when?

There is supposed to be a new study published this year, with a placebo group.

 

[2noist]

Did he say when this new upgrade was launched? I presume it's already in use, but since when?

I think you misunderstood @dd314. I don't think there's been any new upgrade to correct any latency issues, but the CEO claims that the latency has been corrected for since day 1, and is a non-issue.

 

[ploughna]

It's been a while since I worked on Bluetooth audio. Still, I do know many Bluetooth codecs are available, with different levels of audio quality and latency depending on the type of compression/decompression used. It's not so much the latency itself that matters (this can range from 30-200 ms), but how stable it is. A stable latency (which is possible with better codecs) can be compensated for and, in the case of Lenire, can be reliably synced with the electrical pulses.

 

[Bhaveen]

I read that the Veterans Army of the United States is now offering Lenire as a treatment option. I find that remarkable. I just hope that it's not a signal from them regarding Dr. Shore's device.

 

[Joey72]

I read that the Veterans Army of the United States is now offering Lenire as a treatment option. I find that remarkable. I just hope that it's not a signal from them regarding Dr. Shore's device.

There's the right way, the wrong way, and the Army way.

 

[RunningMan]

I read that the Veterans Army of the United States is now offering Lenire as a treatment option. I find that remarkable. I just hope that it's not a signal from them regarding Dr. Shore's device.

The Shore device hasn't received FDA approval, yet, so it's not like they chose it over a better available treatment.

 

[Bhaveen]

The Shore device hasn't received FDA approval, yet, so it's not like they chose it over a better available treatment.

It is more that the VA wants to use something that could actually make the tinnitus worse, which surprised me.

 

[AfroSnowman]

There's the right way, the wrong way, and the Army way.

It is the finest placebo money can buy.

 

[Dizzyhead888]

For those of you who benefited from Lenire, on a scale of 1-10, how much tinnitus reduction did you get on average?

 

[IYIiKe]

It must be helping some people. I hope audiologists aren't just recommending something that doesn't work, though I completely appreciate it doesn't work for all.

I don't know. My audiologist didn't know what hyperacusis was and went to find people in the area to assist. They recommended Treble Health.

It's a severely underfunded issue, tinnitus and hyperacusis.

 

[Bob3382]

Hi y'all.

Some of you may remember I was a lab rat in a UMich study and have generally expressed skepticism about Lenire because of two factors:

• It's a venture-capital-backed thing that has, to my eyes, abused an earlier European clearance for an earlier version of their device (MuteButton) to get EU/US medical-device clearance based on questionable data.
• The decision to use Bluetooth (20-40 ms latency) in a device where synchronization in the <10 ms range matters is idiotic tech-happy nonsense. Even if this can be solved from a technical point of view (it certainly could, with the right kind of communication protocols), it's really stupid to invest that much time in getting radio waves working poorly when a wire "just works."

That said, the UMich stuff worked, and I have found out Lenire is now available closely by; I've got the money stashed in our HSA, so I am just going to go for it. Trip reports are incoming in a few months, I suppose.

I don't really believe this stuff can be damaging in the long term; I think the most significant risk is to my wallet.

Did you go for Lenire? What results have you had, if any? I have it available near me, but the $4950 cost is a little much of a chance to take.

I was ready to jump on the bandwagon, but I hesitated because of all the negative reports I have read on Tinnitus Talk.

 

[RunningMan]

For those of you who benefited from Lenire, on a scale of 1-10, how much tinnitus reduction did you get on average?

I'm not surprised there haven't been any responses to this.

Did you go for Lenire? What results have you had, if any?

He said trip reports are incoming in a few months, he supposes. It hasn't been that long, yet.

I have it available near me, but the $4950 cost is a little much of a chance to take.

I was ready to jump on the bandwagon, but I hesitated because of all the negative reports I have read on Tinnitus Talk.

Very risky chance unless you don't mind throwing away $5000 for something that's highly unlikely to lower tinnitus and could make it worse.

 

[AfroSnowman]

For those of you who benefited from Lenire, on a scale of 1-10, how much tinnitus reduction did you get on average?

1-2.

 

[IYIiKe]

To be fair, the sample size here isn't great in many respects for improvement. You're probably not on these boards if you improve enough to be tolerable again. If you are, you're again part of an even smaller subset. There is definitely some survivorship bias and inherent issues with asking for positive reviews on a board that is frankly fairly negative in general.

 

[Markku]

You're probably not on these boards if you improve enough to be tolerable again.

inherent issues with asking for positive reviews on a board that is frankly fairly negative in general.

Well, many of those who have genuinely disabling tinnitus would come back to report of their success with Lenire (if there was any success to be reported about, that is.) Not everyone of course, but in our experience the severe sufferers are more likely to report back on things.

We also personally know many severe sufferers who have tried Lenire to no avail.

Finally, Hubert Lim, Chief Scientific Officer of Neuromod, said at the TRI 2024 conference, during the Neuromod-hosted dinner: "Lenire is just a distraction for the brain."

It's true that Tinnitus Talk steers towards those who are severely afflicted by tinnitus, but this is also the group that most desperately needs effective treatments, and Lenire isn't that. Period.