Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

[Jack Straw]

I was lurking on Facebook, and sadly I saw this... They are talking about Lenire.

I'm a little bit sad now...

View attachment 30238
View attachment 30239

P.S. I censored the names.

This device is not the same one that was released in 2015. The technology has changed and improved based on their findings from the trials. Let's stop comparing it to that.

Also, this person's tinnitus got worse a month AFTER stopping. Who knows what this person did outside of the treatment. Maybe their tinnitus went back to the way it was before the treatment, but it seems worse because they gained benefit from Lenire. Maybe they exposed themselves to a loud sound but for some reason is blaming Lenire. Maybe they have age related hearing loss that makes them perceive their tinnitus more. Too many factors to attribute it specifically to Lenire, also including that fact it happened a month after stopping.

Also, this product showed statically significant improvement for 66% of participants, she may have been in the 20% that showed no improvement.

Also, reading reports and reviews online has a bias in itself. Like many people have pointed out, people on forums writing about illnesses are usually worse than usual cases. People who have a negative experience with something are more likely to complain online. People who had a good experience don't want to think about it anymore and move on with their lives and don't return to forums. This is just how things work majority of the time.

 

[Candy]

Great... I thought he meant it got back to baseline after he stopped using it, not higher. I communicated with this person too.

This whole thing is so frustrating - it seems like old research rehashed, especially when hearing @Hazel's podcast with Dr. Rauschecker - he hadn't even heard of Neuromod.

Why aren't we getting more funding? Why is the VA not funding and why can't we get a Tinnitus Research Institute?

We need more awareness like a fathers for justice stunt. Chaining ourselves onto something. Something huge. Anyone?

Aargh frickin' noises shut up!!! Anyhow going on the school run and pretending all is great for a couple of hours.

 

[Ken219]

@Don Tinny

TRT came out in 1993. It took 26 years before it was found (JAMA) that Tinnitus Retraining Therapy with conventional sound generators is no better than Tinnitus Retraining Therapy with placebo generators or standard of care.

This bimodal stimulation treatment will never get to market.

 

[Jack Straw]

Great... I thought he meant it got back to baseline after he stopped using it, not higher. I communicated with this person too.

This whole thing is so frustrating - it seems like old research rehashed, especially when hearing @Hazel's podcast with Dr. Rauschecker - he hadn't even heard of Neuromod.

Why aren't we getting more funding? Why is the VA not funding and why can't we get a Tinnitus Research Institute?

We need more awareness like a fathers for justice stunt. Chaining ourselves onto something. Something huge. Anyone?

Aargh frickin' noises shut up!!! Anyhow going on the school run and pretending all is great for a couple of hours.

Dr. Rauschecker said he didn't know of specifically Neuromod. He surely knows of bimodal stimulation and Susan Shore.

 

[Jack Straw]

@Don Tinny

TRT came out in 1993. It took 26 years before it was found (JAMA) that Tinnitus Retraining Therapy with conventional sound generators is no better than Tinnitus Retraining Therapy with placebo generators or standard of care.

This bimodal stimulation treatment will never get to market.

But it is going to market and is being released across Europe...

 

[Heinrich_S7]

This device is not the same one that was released in 2015. The technology has changed and improved based on their findings from the trials. Let's stop comparing it to that.

Also, this person's tinnitus got worse a month AFTER stopping. Who knows what this person did outside of the treatment. Maybe their tinnitus went back to the way it was before the treatment, but it seems worse because they gained benefit from Lenire. Maybe they exposed themselves to a loud sound but for some reason is blaming Lenire. Maybe they have age related hearing loss that makes them perceive their tinnitus more. Too many factors to attribute it specifically to Lenire, also including that fact it happened a month after stopping.

Also, this product showed statically significant improvement for 66% of participants, she may have been in the 20% that showed no improvement.

Also, reading reports and reviews online has a bias in itself. Like many people have pointed out, people on forums writing about illnesses are usually worse than usual cases. People who have a negative experience with something are more likely to complain online. People who had a good experience don't want to think about it anymore and move on with their lives and don't return to forums. This is just how things work majority of the time.

I agree. But didn't 86% show improvement with 66% being significant improvements?

That would leave the non-responders at 14%, not 20%.

Even better odds for us. Almost 9 out of 10 had a good experience!

 

[FGG]

@Jack Straw

I believe I read somewhere within the last year that age related hearing loss isn't actually true. Modern life is just so noisy that most elderly people end up with hearing loss. I just did a quick google search and couldn't find anything though so perhaps I am wrong. It's not such a far out idea though...

To add: Sorry this wasn't really what you were asking about... but to answer what I believe you were asking about, it seems to me that any hearing loss must be due to the cilia dying, no? In which case there would be accompanying tinnitus?

Does hearing loss occur at any frequency in aging isolated tribal populations (e.g. Amazonian tribes)? Seems like that would be a good way to suss it out.

 

[Don Tinny]

This bimodal stimulation treatment will never get to market.

I don't understand too well what you mean. On Tinnitus Talk there are people who will shortly be testing the device. Neuromod are taking appointments.

I assume that it may never get to my country, but that's another problem.

 

[GlennS]

This bimodal stimulation treatment will never get to market.

...aaaaand here we go again.

 

[Dizzyhead888]

@Don Tinny

TRT came out in 1993. It took 26 years before it was found (JAMA) that Tinnitus Retraining Therapy with conventional sound generators is no better than Tinnitus Retraining Therapy with placebo generators or standard of care.

This bimodal stimulation treatment will never get to market.

TRT doesn't reduce tinnitus. It locks the person in for a year using White Noise Generators to get used to their tinnitus. Some people after a year get a reduction in their tinnitus loudness which is mistakenly attributed to TRT.

There is optimism regarding Bimodal Stimulation given the results of the clinical trials.

Let's stay optimistic or worst case neutral, rather than cynical.

 

[Candy]

The person in question above was encouraging to me. He didn't try and dissuade me... He could have just had an unsuccessful experience. It does seem he took part in the latest trial. I didn't bring it up before as I didn't want to bring the mood down.

Let's face it, the best experiences will come from the testimonials, we've seen them already. Just like the ones on the Tinnitus Clinic.

At this stage I will be going to the Tinnitus Clinic in London as I'm not going it alone again.

 

[hopeful4future]

There is a gentleman on Reddit claiming he has been accepted by Neuromod for the consultation to see if he is suitable for the treatment. He stated he is from Ireland so maybe they are weeding through all the applications trying to find local people at this time.

 

[Jack Straw]

There is a gentleman on Reddit claiming he has been accepted by Neuromod for the consultation to see if he is suitable for the treatment. He stated he is from Ireland so maybe they are weeding through all the applications trying to find local people at this time.

View attachment 30242

Perhaps you can persuade him to come here to talk about it?

 

[Jesus112233]

I was lurking on Facebook, and sadly I saw this... They are talking about Lenire.

I'm a little bit sad now...

View attachment 30238
View attachment 30239

P.S. I censored the names.

However the same person with the same profile picture is telling that she did have some relief!!

 

[Shelly75]

I messaged Padraig on Facebook - he told me overall he would say he got about a 10% reduction and only noticed a subtle change. He did say though that since then his tinnitus has stopped bothering him and is not an issue anymore so it sounds like he has habituated to it.

 

[Jack Straw]

I messaged Padraig on Facebook - he told me overall he would say he got about a 10% reduction and only noticed a subtle change. He did say though that since then his tinnitus has stopped bothering him and is not an issue anymore so it sounds like he has habituated to it.

I suspect that it not only reduces the sound but also has an effect on how the tinnitus signal affects our limbic system as well.

 

[Oceanick]

@Oceanick

Have a look at this:
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-pitch-and-loudness-matching.242/

May I ask you what antibiotic started your tinnitus? Mine was gentamicin.

Mine was neomycin.

Gotta watch out for the aminoglycocides.

 

[Dizzyhead888]

I messaged Padraig on Facebook - he told me overall he would say he got about a 10% reduction and only noticed a subtle change. He did say though that since then his tinnitus has stopped bothering him and is not an issue anymore so it sounds like he has habituated to it.

Do you know the cause of his tinnitus?

The Neuromod CEO said that the device strongly helps those tinnitus sufferers who also have hyperacusis.

I can probably say that it helps people with noise trauma rather than other non-noise causes of tinnitus.

 

[Skinjob]

@Don Tinny

TRT came out in 1993. It took 26 years before it was found (JAMA) that Tinnitus Retraining Therapy with conventional sound generators is no better than Tinnitus Retraining Therapy with placebo generators or standard of care.

This bimodal stimulation treatment will never get to market.

How do you figure that, Ken? They are making appointments now, after all.

And may I ask you, if all you feel regarding Neuromod is negativity and skepticism, what are you trying to do here?

 

[Dizzyhead888]

There is a gentleman on Reddit claiming he has been accepted by Neuromod for the consultation to see if he is suitable for the treatment. He stated he is from Ireland so maybe they are weeding through all the applications trying to find local people at this time.

View attachment 30242

I don't get it. You need to have an appointment in person to confirm if you are suitable for the device or not?

I thought the assessment questionnaire was enough to determine suitability.

This will be a hustle for the people travelling.

 

[KotaDomowa]

Do you know the cause of his tinnitus?

The Neuromod CEO said that the device strongly helps those tinnitus sufferers who also have hyperacusis.

I can probably say that it helps people with noise trauma rather than other non-noise causes of tinnitus.

@Clare B had no noise trauma.

If I understand correctly - but here I can be wrong, correct me if so - Patricia also does not (....?)

 

[Dizzyhead888]

@Clare B had no noise trauma.

If I understand correctly - but here I can be wrong, correct me if so - Patricia also does not (....?)

Did anyone with noise trauma get a significant reduction in their tinnitus?
I would presume yes because the majority of tinnitus sufferers have experienced noise trauma so if clinical trials were positive for 86% then it helps tinnitus caused by noise trauma.

 

[Candy]

@Shelly75 looks like we all contacted the same guy.

 

[Shelly75]

@Shelly75 looks like we all contacted the same guy.

Ha! I know! He must be sick of us all.

 

[Shelly75]

Padraig just got back to me - his tinnitus came on overnight, no noise damage, he's had it for 10 years.

 

[Paulmanlike]

I'm not contributing much these days but I will just offer my insight.

- Brand new accounts with no history claiming they got 'cured' twice is suspicious to me and I have seen it before with every other treatment. I don't rely on it much, if at all.

- The 'real' testimonials that can be relied on are from longer term Tinnitus Talk members. That's what I'm counting on.

- The guy who got a 10% reduction, personally I don't know how he got 10%, whether that be a figure from his head or from Neuromod, but they state clearly that RESULTS WILL VARY. Tinnitus is heterogeneous meaning the mechanism may have been different from one person to the next.

- While it's nice to be optimistic, it's also very important to be realistic. In the information that was leaked we saw very few patients go from a severe case to a mild case although according to the figures it did happen for a minority.

- Some improvement is noted on the info that was released that can bring a severe case to a moderate case, a moderate case to a mild case and so on.

- During the interview consultation there was a note where they will ask you what your expectations are. I would assume anybody going there thinking they are going to pay €2500 for a definite cure or even a definite reduction will be gravely mistaken. They can not promise anything.


All in all, I am optimistic that if this treatment works, there will be an inevitable flow of 'evidence' that it does something for a majority. It's just a waiting game now and I don't plan to part with a penny until I see it.

Hope everyone's doing okay!

 

[acute]

Some improvement is noted on the info that was released that can bring a severe case to a moderate case, a moderate case to a mild case and so on.

And maybe a mild case to a zero tinnitus. I hope for that.

I think for mild sufferers, Lenire will knock out the tinnitus.

I pray for that.

I don't know how to classify my tinnitus now. But I know for sure that now it's nothing in comparison to how it was in my first five weeks, which was a terrible living hell.

So, for now, maybe I can talk about having mild to moderate tinnitus, while the living hell of the first few weeks does not come back.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

I'm not contributing much these days but I will just offer my insight.

- Brand new accounts with no history claiming they got 'cured' twice is suspicious to me and I have seen it before with every other treatment. I don't rely on it much, if at all.

- The 'real' testimonials that can be relied on are from longer term Tinnitus Talk members. That's what I'm counting on.

- The guy who got a 10% reduction, personally I don't know how he got 10%, whether that be a figure from his head or from Neuromod, but they state clearly that RESULTS WILL VARY. Tinnitus is heterogeneous meaning the mechanism may have been different from one person to the next.

- While it's nice to be optimistic, it's also very important to be realistic. In the information that was leaked we saw very few patients go from a severe case to a mild case although according to the figures it did happen for a minority.

- Some improvement is noted on the info that was released that can bring a severe case to a moderate case, a moderate case to a mild case and so on.

- During the interview consultation there was a note where they will ask you what your expectations are. I would assume anybody going there thinking they are going to pay €2500 for a definite cure or even a definite reduction will be gravely mistaken. They can not promise anything.

All in all, I am optimistic that if this treatment works, there will be an inevitable flow of 'evidence' that it does something for a majority. It's just a waiting game now and I don't plan to part with a penny until I see it.

Hope everyone's doing okay!

Anyone expecting a definitive verdict is probably going to be disappointed. I'm expecting a lot of "it seems to be better" or "I think it's helping" type comments.

 

[Paulmanlike]

Anyone expecting a definitive verdict is probably going to be disappointed. I'm expecting a lot of "it seems to be better" or "I think it's helping" type comments.

Good point. I will certainly not be taking much from comments like that - I am holding fire until I see a 'real evidence' base build up. I have a lot of admiration for the creator of Tinnitus Talk that brings us all together so we can make informed choices to go and get this treatment. If Neuromod wants €2500 from me, I will want to see an evidence base for it and will certainly not pay that while I just have their word to go on. That's my own personal choice however (for many reasons) and thank you in advance to all the people that go for it - I wish you the best of luck and please report back to us.

If I see success stories the coming months/year to make an informed decision I would get the treatment myself but I can not put myself through it if I go for it and many other people come on saying it had no effect and I've just thrown €2500 at a pair of a headphones and an iPod. I feel for me personally I can hold on to see whether or not it 'works out'.

Also - good luck to Neuromod if you're reading this. Taking on tinnitus is a high risk investment and I hope your patients get results and if so may you have great success.

 

[Jack Straw]

Anyone expecting a definitive verdict is probably going to be disappointed. I'm expecting a lot of "it seems to be better" or "I think it's helping" type comments.

My god you are so pessimistic.