Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

[dd314]

A tinnitus study without a placebo group is the most pointless thing there is.

If the device didn't work, you end up choosing a bit better values because you feel guilty towards the person who wants to help you.

Then it's an incredibly expensive device, so you choose better values because otherwise it looks like you used it wrong, etc.

Tinnitus sufferers are susceptible to placebo effects.

In my experience with hacky herbal supplements, LOUD tinnitus is not responsive to placebo. My strong suspicion is that only mild to moderate-volume tinnitus is highly responsive to placebo. SCREAMING, soul-shattering tinnitus will laugh at your placebo. I'd drop my life savings on this device if it made people's tinnitus go from 9/10 --> 2/10.

 

[GlennS]

I wish they invested their money in some more promising research instead of wasting it into a device that already showed inconsistent results.

Yep, like the seemingly superior device THEY ALREADY HAD which they abandoned.

 

[Paul1980]

Lenire seems to be on the retreat here in German-speaking countries, and they want to sell the remaining devices to you. I drove from Zurich to Munich in 2020, he can no longer be found on the Lenire card, he probably had too many returns of the device.

https://www.lenire.com/de/arzt-akustiker-find/

I can only repeat myself, it is a smart looking mp3 player that delivers an unscientific sound mix with a few ems tongue shocks. Production costs under 50 euros, sales price 3,000 euros.

It is an MP3 device that is timed to the sound, developed by scientists. I am sorry you think that is unscientific. There are plenty of things developed by scientists that didn't work for certain people. That doesn't make it unscientific. But I am truly sorry you didn't find relief and I respect your opinion. I would be very upset too.

I notice that there are about 5 outlets in DE now, and there were several before. But the ones that remain are the major hearing institutions, like Hannover, Munich, and others. That dooesn't tell me that the device is any less useful until those institutions stop using it. Perhaps the smaller ones couldn't support the users.

There are additional clinics offering it in Switzerland, and the ones in Belgium and the UK, IRL, etc remain. So it would be nice to know what actually is going on besides the typical "the device doesn't work." I mean those clinics must be able to see for themselves whether or not they think the device works, or they are dumb, correct? Or maybe Lenire offers them money?

In other words it would be nice to have more information than one user's, or many users' bad experiences, no matter how terrible things are for them, and as bad as I feel about it.

Because as I have said before, this is the only thing on the market that addresses this affliction. There is another device coming out that uses similar technology. It can't be one big hoax. Otherwise EVERYONE is going to suffer if that is really what it is, even though we have a lot of real user evidence that this device did provide relief.

 

[AfroSnowman]

I just started my 3rd or 4th cycle of Lenire, with probably at least a year gap since my last go. I'm only restarting because I'm working from home and it is no big deal for me to put on the headset while working.

I do have to say each time I've used it, I get a minor alleviation in suffering. Like a 10 goes down to an 8. I've always gotten a pretty quick (within a week) response. Fundamentally not enough of a difference for me to keep it up if it isn't convenient. Hooray I'm left with 8/10 tinnitus instead of 10/10. Kind of who cares?

Ultimately I always stop using it because using it doesn't really make a difference in my life and an hour a day is a lot of treatment time for a shrug sort of effect.

But maybe if you had a 4 tinnitus and could make it a 2, it would be worthwhile.

Come on Team Shore, we need something better than this.

 

[Stuart-T]

It is an MP3 device that is timed to the sound, developed by scientists. I am sorry you think that is unscientific. There are plenty of things developed by scientists that didn't work for certain people. That doesn't make it unscientific. But I am truly sorry you didn't find relief and I respect your opinion. I would be very upset too.

I notice that there are about 5 outlets in DE now, and there were several before. But the ones that remain are the major hearing institutions, like Hannover, Munich, and others. That dooesn't tell me that the device is any less useful until those institutions stop using it. Perhaps the smaller ones couldn't support the users.

There are additional clinics offering it in Switzerland, and the ones in Belgium and the UK, IRL, etc remain. So it would be nice to know what actually is going on besides the typical "the device doesn't work." I mean those clinics must be able to see for themselves whether or not they think the device works, or they are dumb, correct? Or maybe Lenire offers them money?

In other words it would be nice to have more information than one user's, or many users' bad experiences, no matter how terrible things are for them, and as bad as I feel about it.

Because as I have said before, this is the only thing on the market that addresses this affliction. There is another device coming out that uses similar technology. It can't be one big hoax. Otherwise EVERYONE is going to suffer if that is really what it is, even though we have a lot of real user evidence that this device did provide relief.

It can no doubt provide some relief. However, I believe the tongue pad is probably useless. What is making a difference - where it does make a difference - is the sounds which are played into the ear. But why pay £3000 for sounds which you can buy for next to nothing or get free on YouTube? I use a sound file on YouTube and it gives me a significant reduction for maybe 6 hours or so. I listen lying down on my mobile for 10-15 minutes - turn off - and it smooths my zinging, piercing tinnitus to a more acceptable hiss. I must say there are many tinnitus neuromodulation videos on YouTube that do not work for me. Maybe those for whom Lenire does not work at all have not been presented with sounds which work for them.

So yes - some users are getting a benefit. I just think they are being ripped off frankly for that amount of money. The British Tinnitus Association does not recommend Lenire but frankly even if they did, I would still want to see some proper independent studies comparing Lenire + tongue stimulator with Lenire's sounds only, plus say Lenire vs. the kind of video I listen to on YouTube that many have had relief from.

I just started my 3rd or 4th cycle of Lenire, with probably at least a year gap since my last go. I'm only restarting because I'm working from home and it is no big deal for me to put on the headset while working.

I do have to say each time I've used it, I get a minor alleviation in suffering. Like a 10 goes down to an 8. I've always gotten a pretty quick (within a week) response. Fundamentally not enough of a difference for me to keep it up if it isn't convenient. Hooray I'm left with 8/10 tinnitus instead of 10/10. Kind of who cares?

Ultimately I always stop using it because using it doesn't really make a difference in my life and an hour a day is a lot of treatment time for a shrug sort of effect.

But maybe if you had a 4 tinnitus and could make it a 2, it would be worthwhile.

Come on Team Shore, we need something better than this.

Good comments. You are right, a 20% reduction is not enough. An 8 is going to be nearly as intrusive as a 10. I guess at 6 you would probably be using it more. I would say someone with level 4 would probably not be suffering enough to warrant the investment. Mine is about 5, or 7 when spiking - I would not buy Lenire to reduce my tinnitus down a level or two, it would really need to eliminate it to be worthwhile for that money.

 

[dd314]

I'm out of the loop here, why does the newly published TENT-A2 study say that this device works for 95% of people, yet the review thread says it's a total dud.

Can anyone fill me in here?

 

[Aussie Lea]

I'm out of the loop here, why does the newly published TENT-A2 study say that this device works for 95% of people, yet the review thread says it's a total dud.

Can anyone fill me in here?

Yes. TENT-A2 states average reduction of 15.3 TFI points. TFI is a scale of 0-100. Clinically significant improvement requires 13 TFI point reduction.

If you go from 80 to 65, that's a ~19% reduction.

A lot of the studies (not just Lenire) show 13-16 TFI point reductions, just by doing something. If a person in a white coat hands over some white noise generators and tells you it's going to be alright, you can very surely show a 13-16 TFI point reduction in your TFI survey.

Point is, TFI and THI and such subjective surveys are BULLSHIT and we need better objective measurements (like the one The Bionics Institute is working on here in Australia).

Neuromod is taking advantage of how poorly TFI and THI work and then puts the results into fancy marketing. They are quite the scumbags. THIS DEVICE HELPS 95%! WOW!

Fuckin' hell... if this fancy habituation device worked this well, tinnitus would be a worry of the past!

 

[dd314]

Yes. TENT-A2 states average reduction of 15.3 TFI points. TFI is a scale of 0-100. Clinically significant improvement requires 13 TFI point reduction.

If you go from 80 to 65, that's a ~19% reduction.

A lot of the studies (not just Lenire) show 13-16 TFI point reductions, just by doing something. If a person in a white coat hands over some white noise generators and tells you it's going to be alright, you can very surely show a 13-16 TFI point reduction in your TFI survey.

Point is, TFI and THI and such subjective surveys are BULLSHIT and we need better objective measurements (like the one The Bionics Institute is working on here in Australia).

Neuromod is taking advantage of how poorly TFI and THI work and then puts the results into fancy marketing. They are quite the scumbags. THIS DEVICE HELPS 95%! WOW!

Fuckin' hell... if this fancy habituation device worked this well, tinnitus would be a worry of the past!

Interesting, so is the TFI scale linear?

That is, is the difference between 80 and 65 the same difference as the difference between 40 and 25? Because if it's non-linear, then that could be a HUGE improvement

 

[Stuart-T]

The Lenire is such a major rip off - at £3000 or so it looks like a contrived device to separate suffering people from their money. Plus trips to Ireland which can be very costly.

The problem with measuring tinnitus is that subjects are being asked to give a score on their reduction - this is too subjective and open to error. It is frankly not scientific because there is no way of confirming the figures being reported.

I think Lenire should rent these things out - and allow people to buy them if they work.

 

[dd314]

The problem with measuring tinnitus is that subjects are being asked to give a score on their reduction - this is too subjective and open to error. It is frankly not scientific because there is no way of confirming the figures being reported.

I actually think TFI is a decent proxy for volume. Minimal masking level is the closest thing to an objective measure of volume, but it has its own disadvantages like differing frequencies. I'm content with TFI.

 

[TLion]

I discovered today that Lenire is sold in my city. I had a chat with the audiologist and he said they have treated 25 persons over the course of 2 years with only 1 that didn't have some kind of improvement.

is this worth a try? It's gonna be around 3.000€.

 

[Sironketchup]

I discovered today that Lenire is sold in my city. I had a chat with the audiologist and he said they have treated 25 persons over the course of 2 years with only 1 that didn't have some kind of improvement.

is this worth a try? It's gonna be around 3.000€.

I think yes!

Lenire has improved my condition, even though I've quit it for now after about 2 years.

 

[TLion]

My tinnitus is very high pitched (10 kHz) and reactive. I also have some kind of ear pain/stress regularly. My hyperacusis has gotten better but it's still present. If I understand correct, Lenire could help to lower the threshold for masking, right? This would be so cool, because I miss my old tinnitus which was easily masked by everyday sounds.

 

[George Brunner]

I discovered today that Lenire is sold in my city. I had a chat with the audiologist and he said they have treated 25 persons over the course of 2 years with only 1 that didn't have some kind of improvement.

is this worth a try? It's gonna be around 3.000€.

Did he really say that? Only 1 person out of 25 had no improvement? Then I was again one of the only 4% where the device didn't help. What a coincidence. Or does the audiologist have an interest in presenting it more positively than it is? Can he say what suits him? Yes he can. What would you say as a seller if you were to sell the device? Well, I don't know, so, alright, don't try it?

1 out of 25 with no improvement is a blatant lie. It's similar to the Axe commercial, which conveys that just by spraying on the completely overpriced deodorant you are suddenly the dream man of 4 billion women in the world.

Or like the fashion saleswoman who said to me, the suit looks great on me, I'm like a model.

Or the optician who told me that it is very important to have a triple anti-reflective lens on my glasses (on photos I am still the only one whose eyes cannot be seen because my glasses reflect back).

Or my orthopaedist, who prescribed hyaluronic acid injections for 400 euros. I refused the last ones because they led to deterioration. But in one study, I'd say I was too stupid to see the benefit and tick improvement.

I could make a long list here... forget Lenire.

If it were a silver bullet against tinnitus, word would have gotten around here (in Central Europe) for a long time.

 

[AfroSnowman]

My tinnitus is very high pitched (10 kHz) and reactive. I also have some kind of ear pain/stress regularly. My hyperacusis has gotten better but it's still present. If I understand correct, Lenire could help to lower the threshold for masking, right? This would be so cool, because I miss my old tinnitus which was easily masked by everyday sounds.

I'm pro giving stuff a try.

For me Lenire did something, not a lot, not enough to make a real difference, not long lasting effect. Whenever I pick it up and use it for few weeks I do tend to have a slight better week, but for me an hour a day is a lot to dedicate to something that has a faint, almost indiscernible effect.

So if you are blessed that if you spend the €3,000 you won't miss it, it is worth a try. If your personal finances are a bit tighter, I wouldn't assume that you are going to get €3,000 of relief out of the product.

 

[TLion]

I surely would miss the 3.000 €, but I'm honestly at my wits' end. I'm barely able to work, the electrical hiss is making me so afraid. I have better days and really bad days. When I found Lenire to be available in my city yesterday, there was a glimpse of hope I can do something. Every bit of relief is better than no relief. My tinnitus is not too loud but it's so high pitched and reactive.

I read a few times Lenire could change the pitch of the tones you're hearing. That would be so so great.

 

[Lurius]

I had to deal with Neuromod directly again today and after they changed their profile to "Otologie" I have discovered that they no longer serve customers in my country due to some absurd policy change. They now only deal with customers in the EU (which also leaves USA, Asia, Africa etc out of the picture). They seem to want to die on that hill so I'm not sure what to do.

I'm waiting for a call from one of their people, I will update you when I know more.

 

[AfroSnowman]

I surely would miss the 3.000 €, but I'm honestly at my wits' end. I'm barely able to work, the electrical hiss is making me so afraid. I have better days and really bad days. When I found Lenire to be available in my city yesterday, there was a glimpse of hope I can do something. Every bit of relief is better than no relief. My tinnitus is not too loud but it's so high pitched and reactive.

I read a few times Lenire could change the pitch of the tones you're hearing. That would be so so great.

I understand the need to do something, taking some proactive action is empowering and beneficial in the short term in and of itself. Have high hopes but modest expectations and go for it.

 

[TLion]

Is it actually true that Lenire can make the tones you hear softer? Since my reintroduction of Paxil, my tone is so much higher than before. I'd love to have it softened.

 

[Lurius]

Is it actually true that Lenire can make the tones you hear softer? Since my reintroduction of Paxil, my tone is so much higher than before. I'd love to have it softened.

It can go both ways. The 60 minutes they recommend is absolutely not something you should take as a blueprint for your own brain. I use it for 20 minutes with 1 day on and 1 day off for the best result. Whenever I use it for more than 25 minutes, it cooks my brain and I get nightmarish humming for a day. You have to experiment for quite some time to find what works for you.

 

[TLion]

It can go both ways. The 60 minutes they recommend is absolutely not something you should take as a blueprint for your own brain. I use it for 20 minutes with 1 day on and 1 day off for the best result. Whenever I use it for more than 25 minutes, it cooks my brain and I get nightmarish humming for a day. You have to experiment for quite some time to find what works for you.

Was Lenire successful for you? Is your tinnitus lower?

 

[Lurius]

Was Lenire successful for you? Is your tinnitus lower?

I misread that sentence as "Are you a tinnitus lover?", which I am most certainly not, haha.

My tinnitus is a fluctuating mess but I have had some success with Lenire. It's not all bad. It has definitely helped me. But I've also had a lot of experiences where it made it worse. The insane worsening I had in spring of 2021 is still a mystery and the culprit could actually be Lenire. I think you should try it if you think it's worth the money, but definitely be careful about how you use it. I would NOT start with 60 minutes, no matter what they say over there.

 

[TLion]

I misread that sentence as "Are you a tinnitus lover?", which I am most certainly not, haha.

My tinnitus is a fluctuating mess but I have had some success with Lenire. It's not all bad. It has definitely helped me. But I've also had a lot of experiences where it made it worse. The insane worsening I had in spring of 2021 is still a mystery and the culprit could actually be Lenire. I think you should try it if you think it's worth the money, but definitely be careful about how you use it. I would NOT start with 60 minutes, no matter what they say over there.

My problem is that my new tinnitus (after worsening) is piercing through everyday noises and isn't maskable anymore by environmental noises. This bugs me the most because before it was easily maskable. Is it possible that Lenire can reverse the threshold shift done by the SSRI? So that the tinnitus can be masked again? What exactly is the success Lenire achieves?

 

[Lurius]

My problem is that my new tinnitus (after worsening) is piercing through everyday noises and isn't maskable anymore by environmental noises. This bugs me the most because before it was easily maskable. Is it possible that Lenire can reverse the threshold shift done by the SSRI? So that the tinnitus can be masked again? What exactly is the success Lenire achieves?

That's somewhat individual. A lot of people in this forum thinks Lenire is a joke, a scam, snake oil etc. Those people had no change or a massive worsening. But that's not the case for everyone. There can be a minor improvement or it can be more significant, like your tinnitus consistently staying a low level for many days in a row. Then maybe you get 1-2 bad days before it goes back to 3-4 good days again. But this is pure speculation. No one is going to be able to tell you exactly what it will do for you. I have a very sensitive brain so I only need to use it for 20 minutes every other day - if I use it more, it fires on all circuits and I have a funky circus show in the brain.

 

[KoolKat]

Neuromod needs to be shut down ASAP.

 

[MikeB1996]

So this thread seems quite old, but active.

I live in Ireland myself, and there is a Lenire place fairly close to me... I was planning to go there, however, after reading many of these comments, I'm a little terrified, not going to lie.

The few people that it did help I'm happy for, however, the many that say their tinnitus got even louder... is it worth the risk?

 

[MikeB1996]

So this thread seems quite old, but active.

I live in Ireland myself, and there is a Lenire place fairly close to me... I was planning to go there, however, after reading many of these comments, I'm a little terrified, not going to lie.

The few people that it did help I'm happy for, however, the many that say their tinnitus got even louder... is it worth the risk?

An update:

I called them. They don't cover anything with a medical card so I'd have to dish out a fair amount but I'm extremely skeptical from all the replies here.

 

[Stuart-T]

An update:

I called them. They don't cover anything with a medical card so I'd have to dish out a fair amount but I'm extremely skeptical from all the replies here.

I have posted my views before about this.

3000 EUR is quite a lot of money to speculate on a treatment. If you have a large disposable income and can afford to lose that sum, then you could well take a chance - you can always sell it for maybe 1000 EUR. I have seen some for sale.

But if money is an issue - and you are not totally desperate - I would probably not bother.

Go onto YouTube and experiment with various tinnitus sounds out there - I believe the Lenire works on the same principle.

 

[MikeB1996]

I have posted my views before about this.

3000 EUR is quite a lot of money to speculate on a treatment. If you have a large disposable income and can afford to lose that sum, then you could well take a chance - you can always sell it for maybe 1000 EUR. I have seen some for sale.

But if money is an issue - and you are not totally desperate - I would probably not bother.

Go onto YouTube and experiment with various tinnitus sounds out there - I believe the Lenire works on the same principle.

I appreciate the reply! That kind of money sure would be an issue in these times for a glimmer of improvement. Shame, I got so excited when I found out they specialise in tinnitus and they're so close to me.

 

[Stuart-T]

I appreciate the reply! That kind of money sure would be an issue in these times for a glimmer of improvement. Shame, I got so excited when I found out they specialise in tinnitus and they're so close to me.

I know - you are lucky eh - charlatans only an hour's drive away when many others are having to fly in and stay at hotels for the privilege of being fleeced.