Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod
- Thread starter Tinnitus Talk
- Start date
Member
- Feb 11, 2019
- 801
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/2014
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Headcold/Flu
To @gameover:
I was an English major.
When, for example, I read in "Moby Dick" that the White Whale represented the pitiless indifference of the Universe, understanding this was only of academic interest so that I could answer such questions on an Exam.
Now, after over 9 years of this, tinnitus has been my "education" regarding the Nightmarish Reality as described by Melville. It (as nothing else ever did) made me REALLY understand these readings:
From "King Lear":
"We are as flies to the Gods;
They kill us for their sport."
From Philip Roth:
"The Jewish Faith has often characterized God as an Insane Father."
Or, in the final scene of Hemmingway's "A Farewell To Arms", the protagonist recalls (after he was notified that his wife and baby died in childbirth), that when he was a boy and sitting around a campfire, he saw that numerous ants were frantically scurrying from a burning log, and that he could save them by removing it from the fire, but he chose not to. That, for Hemmingway, summed up his belief in the Munificence of God (or lack thereof).
George Carlin was fired from a Club for saying that there was more evidence for the existence of UFOs than there was for the existence of God (when you think about it, he's really got a point).
From Samuel Beckett:
"Face it, you're on Earth - there's no cure for that."
You are entirely correct about such an alleged Supreme Being being so inept that he apparently did not know how to create a brain that would not produce tinnitus.
I was an English major.
When, for example, I read in "Moby Dick" that the White Whale represented the pitiless indifference of the Universe, understanding this was only of academic interest so that I could answer such questions on an Exam.
Now, after over 9 years of this, tinnitus has been my "education" regarding the Nightmarish Reality as described by Melville. It (as nothing else ever did) made me REALLY understand these readings:
From "King Lear":
"We are as flies to the Gods;
They kill us for their sport."
From Philip Roth:
"The Jewish Faith has often characterized God as an Insane Father."
Or, in the final scene of Hemmingway's "A Farewell To Arms", the protagonist recalls (after he was notified that his wife and baby died in childbirth), that when he was a boy and sitting around a campfire, he saw that numerous ants were frantically scurrying from a burning log, and that he could save them by removing it from the fire, but he chose not to. That, for Hemmingway, summed up his belief in the Munificence of God (or lack thereof).
George Carlin was fired from a Club for saying that there was more evidence for the existence of UFOs than there was for the existence of God (when you think about it, he's really got a point).
From Samuel Beckett:
"Face it, you're on Earth - there's no cure for that."
You are entirely correct about such an alleged Supreme Being being so inept that he apparently did not know how to create a brain that would not produce tinnitus.
- Nov 2, 2022
- 438
- Tinnitus Since
- 09/2022
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Ear infection/Ultra High Frequency SSHL in Right Ear
Wow, all because I used the phrase "Thank God"? There's threads to discuss your contempt and/or disbelief for a God, your little confidence in one of the few people who has given a shit over the past 20 years, etc. No need to blast my two-word phrase with contempt and negativity that was meant for positivity and hope for Dr. Shore's device.
- Feb 11, 2019
- 801
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/2014
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Headcold/Flu
Sorry @ErikaS, but far too many posters on Tinnitus Talk (and elsewhere) have done what I most assuredly prefer not to describe too fully without the slightest intervention from an alleged Supreme Being.
I recall the defensive, blank, open-mouthed reactions from people who claimed to be devout when I asked them shortly after 9/11, "When the Lord saw that Mohammed Atta was about to slit that pilot's throat, why didn't he paralyze Atta's arm and declare, "What you are doing is EVIL and I will not permit it!"
I have absolutely no use for a Supreme Being who would watch this and decide not intervene.
- Jul 23, 2022
- 513
- Tinnitus Since
- 02/2022
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Ear wax or COVID-19 infection
I understand it seems to work on the same principle as Lenire - sound therapy?
That's one.
The other is that there are continual delays.
And by pure statistics - how many promising treatments have people waited for and how many reliably worked?
Then say thanks to Dr. Shore - why are you crediting God with her hard work?
If you are going to say thank God when something good is going to happen - when you see a storm coming it is only consistent and fair to curse God or say no thanks to God.
Not really. What I noticed the first few times after using Lenire is that it would change an otherwise always stable set of ringing sounds, and would make it whoosh and variable. It was kind of gradual that the reactivity went down. Things might be a little different for me though because I was part of Otonomy's suicide shot in 2019. I call it that because that's what it made me want to do, and likely also why I have visual snow syndrome now. So things might work differently on me since my brain was messed up so bad by that.
I'm trying to get it updated to the latest settings, I've had the original settings and want to switch it up since the most recent ones got better results from the clinical trials. Not sure if it'll help honestly.@ChrisBoyMonkey, I have had tinnitus since 2008 after a noise trauma. After that I got floaters and VSS. I live in Germany. If Lenire works for your VSS, maybe I will get the device too
I'm going to try NORT for the visual snow syndrome though. It's just intense eye workouts but I found quite a few good reviews about it outside of that little study done recently.
Joshua Macleod
Member
- Jul 23, 2022
- 513
- Tinnitus Since
- 02/2022
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Ear wax or COVID-19 infection
Sadly no - Lenire will do a booming trade in the USA.
That is why we have to get the word out there to protect buyers who think it works because they got FDA approval.
Yep, especially since Neuromod "recruited" (read: paid off) "well-respected" specialists/researchers affiliated with "top tier" schools in the U.S., I bet they will keep pushing Lenire snake oil device as long as they have more profit from it. It's funny, when I asked said specialist if he will offer Auricle once available, he said possibly with quite a hesitation.
Don't ever assume a good product will win the garbage if the profit incentives are not aligned.
- Feb 11, 2019
- 801
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/2014
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Headcold/Flu
As of yesterday I counted only 17 clinics in the entire US that were carrying Lenire (and none were in Illinois).
This bears all of the characteristics of going the way of every one of those other now defunct "treatments" (SoundCure, Neuromonics, The Levo System, Desyncra). How do they expect to market this? No matter how much of a gaslighting spin these Audiology Groups may place on this, how many nonetheless can come up with the exorbitant $4,000.00+ (uninsured) cost?
I noticed that, curiously, there was no mention of this in the Health and Wellness Section of our Chicago Tribune. Why wasn't there a lead article titled "A Revolutionary Tinnitus Treatment Soon To Be Coming Near You."
I found it amusing to wonder if the Lenire Distributors have said, "We have got to sell as many of these as we can before Auricle makes us look like the former "Flying Machines" in comparison to the Wright Brother's Airplane."
- Dec 3, 2022
- 253
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012. Worsened 2022.
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Primarily loud music. Secondary - ETD + TMJ
- Jul 8, 2019
- 1,162
- Tinnitus Since
- 1991
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Loud Music / family history
They don't have to lie, the trial results were not controlled for placebo. You'll need to make your own judgment call on that.
Two clinics I know about, who offered Lenire in the past, were very disappointed with its efficacy. Neither is anymore offering this treatment to their patients. So the study results are absolutely not in line with the real world data.
View it this way: in this forum, there are people angry with God, and any religious reference drives them crazy. Just do as Dante said in the Divine Comedy: "Pay no heed to them, but look and pass by."
Thank God for what Dr. Shore is doing and ignore the rest!
- Jul 23, 2022
- 513
- Tinnitus Since
- 02/2022
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Ear wax or COVID-19 infection
Rationalise it anyway you want. How can I be angry with something I don't believe exists?
It just irritates me when believers credit God with the hits (cures etc) and keep silent about the misses (Ebola, AIDS, COVID-19, parasitic worms in the guts of children in Africa).
If there is a God - that God is responsible for the shoddy human design which causes tinnitus, so praising God for helping a doctor to find a cure for an illness that God caused, is a bit silly to say the least.
They may not be lying. But there is such a thing as confirmation bias.
They are doing their own trials - and have a financial stake in the results.
Independent trials are needed not funded by the company. But nobody is going to pay for this.
My advice is, do not waste your money. Personally, the top people in that company - for their snake oil - I would push them all off the top of a cliff.
Another €30M EUR investment in Neuromod! WTF.
Ireland: Neuromod Devices Closes €30 Million Financing to Expand Availability of Tinnitus Treatment Device Lenire®
Ireland: Neuromod Devices Closes €30 Million Financing to Expand Availability of Tinnitus Treatment Device Lenire®
- Mar 2, 2018
- 280
- Tinnitus Since
- 2/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Rock 'n Roll
Damn and half of it is venture debt too. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in terms of them pursuing US DoD contracts with the Auricle team on its heels. I would sure love to see the financials to see how they are justifying a $15M Series B (that probably puts them at a ~$100M valuation). Probably just TAM (Total Addressable Market) and no competition... yet.
It's been ages since I was on Tinnitus Talk. I literally can't believe the Lenire thing is still going on. I was one of the very unlucky ones that got Lenire first. It worsened my back-then mild tinnitus to an unspeakable level. It's not just fraud and scam, it literally can make you incredibly worse.
It's been years and I never got back to baseline like the unprofessional and unskilled Lenire staff suggested it would. They didn't even refund me for what they did to me.
I'm writing this so noone else experiences the same thing. I wish I had never known about Tinnitus Talk because everyone was promoting Lenire like the tinnitus therapy of the century.
Whomever is thinking about purchasing Lenire, I would strongly suggest to rethink.
It's been years and I never got back to baseline like the unprofessional and unskilled Lenire staff suggested it would. They didn't even refund me for what they did to me.
I'm writing this so noone else experiences the same thing. I wish I had never known about Tinnitus Talk because everyone was promoting Lenire like the tinnitus therapy of the century.
Whomever is thinking about purchasing Lenire, I would strongly suggest to rethink.
I second this. I've had the same experience with Neuromod. I understand now that what they do, is using a lot of the same tricks as magicians and scammers use. Lots of pseudoscience talk. A clinic furnished with medical equipment used to do seemingly valid tests like an audiogram and such.
I called Neuromod out on LinkedIn for their continuous marketing of their product. Their response was that just a tiny number of Lenire users got adverse effects. Which evidently is not true.
So my advice is the same - there is not one single credible instance of anyone gotten their tinnitus loudness decreased using Lenire, and several instances to the contrary.
Given the failure of the much anticipated bimodal treatment from Susan Shore, I'd say this whole approach has failed. Stay away from the scammers and learn to accept living with tinnitus. That's the only advice I have.
Yes. You have been fooled. Return the device and do not attempt to use it. Chances are your tinnitus will get louder if you do.
Even if true, that only addresses the "safety bar".
A medical treatment also needs to address the "efficacy bar", i.e. the treatment must yield better outcomes than if you "do nothing". That means you need to compare to a control group, which is quite critical because tinnitus does get better on its own for a majority of people, so claiming "X% of my patients got better!" is necessary but not sufficient. It's a high bar.
I haven't read about this failure anywhere. Is this a very recent discovery? What is the source for that statement?
It became my opinion that bimodal stimulation for tinnitus is a failure, after reading the important parts of the results of the study released not long ago. There were a lot of dropouts from the study, the improvements were meagre and highly prone to bias. Same problems as with the Lenire study. I have experience with that particular treatment and know how dangerous it is.
So this is my informed opinion, I'm the source. If you think I'm wrong, fine. I'd like to be proved wrong but as things stand, there's absolutely zero evidence, apart from anecdotes given by a pair of much hailed forum heroes, that the bimodal treatment has any merit at all.
The bimodal project has been going on for 15 years without any evidence for success.
RunningMan
Member
- May 8, 2023
- 604
- Tinnitus Since
- HiFrq ~2000, Increased 2022, LoFrq ~2020
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Loud noise - clubs, stereos, cycles, headphones, engines,etc
I wouldn't say it was a failure. Even 5 dB better reduction than the placebo (control) could still be noticeable, and it could work better for some or better longer term for more reduction. Too early to call it a failure, even if the study results might raise more questions and concerns.
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