Lidocaine/Josef Rauschecker

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by TuxedoCat, Jun 17, 2018.

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Has intravenous administration of lidocaine lowered the volume of your tinnitus?

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. Never had intravenous lidocaine

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    1. Fightthearmy

      Fightthearmy Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      work-related
      Josef Rauschecker mentioned intravenous Lidocaine again and potentially similar drugs but with a prolonged effect, in the new Tinnitus Talk interview at Patreon. In my opinion he made it sound rather appealing, but what about the ototoxicity?
       
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    2. SmallRonnie
      Ape-like

      SmallRonnie Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      Ireland
      Tinnitus Since:
      H since 2018. T since 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud noise
      Lidocaine is used to treat ear infections, I'm using it right now in the form of ear drops. Not sure how different it is to IV.
       
    3. GregCA
      Jaded

      GregCA Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Otosclerosis
      I suppose that the difference is that, as an IV, Lidocaine gets into your blood stream, and therefore can reach your cochlea.

      As ear drops, it is called topical application and, unless you have a perforated ear drum, the drops will be prevented from making their way from the canal to the middle ear, so they are unlikely to get anywhere near your cochlea.
       
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    4. Gb3

      Gb3 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      SSHL
      They are doing a clinical trial for Lidocaine at Mass Eye and Ear. After the injection you undergo an MRI to analyze the brain.
       
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    5. SmallRonnie
      Ape-like

      SmallRonnie Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      Ireland
      Tinnitus Since:
      H since 2018. T since 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud noise
      There is a warning on the bottle not to use it if you have a perforated eardrum alright.
       
    6. ma7555
      Doubtful

      ma7555 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Bupropion
      There seems to be two Lidocaine derivatives that could be taken orally. Mexiletine and Tocainide. Both have been trailed heavily in the 80s and 90s with rather good results but due to the effect being only temporary it was not worth the risk as these drugs can not be taken long term. I guess this is why those drugs never got approved as a tinnitus treatment.
       
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    7. Nick47

      Nick47 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      Interesting. I will look for the studies. I thought only Lidocaine worked.
       
    8. HighleyTall
      In pain

      HighleyTall Member

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      monitor noise trauma at gig
      Did you find any studies?

      This paper mentions intravenously administered Mexiletine.

      Mexiletine Hydrochloride (powder) is available in Belgium on request at the pharmacies.
       
    9. Nick47

      Nick47 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      Only intravenous Lidocaine and the ear shots in another thread.
       
    10. HighleyTall
      In pain

      HighleyTall Member

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      monitor noise trauma at gig
      In this paper, they mapped Lidocaine related changes in neural activity, measured by regional cerebral blood flow (rCBF) PET.
      Does anyone have the full paper?
       
    11. annV
      Fine

      annV Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown - possibly hereditary
      Here it is.
       

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    12. Nick47

      Nick47 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
    13. ErikaS

      ErikaS Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Pennsylvania, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection/Ultra High Frequency SSHL in Right Ear
    14. HighleyTall
      In pain

      HighleyTall Member

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      monitor noise trauma at gig
      Thank you @annV!
      This is interesting. It is an easy-to-perform procedure. They still seem to be reviewing the results.

      If Lidocaine works for me (temporarily), they have to cut my 8th nerve on the left. And I mean it.
      Interesting, but what if (some specific) tinnitus is neuropathy?
       
    15. AverageJoe12

      AverageJoe12 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2023
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Night club in Feb ‘23, MRI in Feb '24, drummer since age 15
      Thanks for sharing. I emailed them to see if they're taking more participants for the "normal hearing (NH) with tinnitus (T+)" cohort. I'd fly up to Boston for this in a heartbeat. It seems like a small study, though. 40 participants total, only some of whom actually have tinnitus.

      EDIT:

      So I almost immediately heard back from the US lab on their Lidocaine study. I'd have to fly up to Boston (not a huge deal) but then it's a pretty noisy affair which might be tricky with my right ear hyperacusis and reactive tinnitus. Here's a synopsis of everything I'd be signing up for. The MRI is my main concern due to sheer noise and claustrophobia. I'm gonna mull it over today/tomorrow.
       
    16. HighleyTall
      In pain

      HighleyTall Member

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      monitor noise trauma at gig
      Dr. Pulec also tried Lidocaine on the subject of the case report in his paper.
       
    17. HighleyTall
      In pain

      HighleyTall Member

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      monitor noise trauma at gig
      Another Lidocaine study.
      Too bad the paper is behind a paywall.

      Lidocaine: neurobiological targets and effects on the auditory system
       
    18. annV
      Fine

      annV Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown - possibly hereditary
      Attached is the full paper.
       

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    19. HighleyTall
      In pain

      HighleyTall Member

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      monitor noise trauma at gig
      Thank you, @annV!

      Here is another paper that is referenced in the previous one. For some, Lidocaine seems to have an effect (and in the cochlea). It would be interesting to know the cause of the patients' tinnitus. But again, this paper is behind a paywall, and this information will probably not be available.
      But the previous paper also stated that Lidocaine does not cross the blood-labyrinth barrier (BLB). How can we then get these results?

      And again, we see a relationship between OHCs and tinnitus. Forget IHCs.
       
    20. annV
      Fine

      annV Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown - possibly hereditary
      Attached is the full paper of that one, too.
       

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    21. Note
      Wishful

      Note Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2023
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing, microsuction
      I'm not an expert, but maybe Lidocaine blocks HCN2 channels in auditory nerve fibers.
       
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    22. HighleyTall
      In pain

      HighleyTall Member

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      monitor noise trauma at gig
      I had an online consultation with Dr. Boedts yesterday. I sent him an email earlier with my questions so I didn't have to talk too much, but unfortunately, he didn't read it. Half an hour and my head felt bad afterward due to the talking. He seems to be experimenting with Botox and Xylocaine and seems to prefer the latter. He also injects in the mouth (soft palate) and even up the nose. He does not recommend intratympanic injections; this is very unpleasant for the patient. He suggests a series of weekly injections. Some have no improvement, others only for an hour, some for a few days or weeks/months. What he also noticed is that if a patient has a noise incident during this series of injections they often relapse.

      I'd like to try it, but because of my current condition, I don't think I can handle the trip. A local ENT could do it, too, he said, but then again, they probably don't have any experience.

      EDIT:

      I asked Dr. Boedts if he had data on the relationship between the cause of tinnitus/hyperacusis and the success of Lidocaine treatment. Unfortunately, he didn't.
       
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