Lion's Mane Mushroom

[Quiet please]

@Lukee, B3? THAT was easy! Lol.

Thank you!

 

[Aaron91]

Does anybody here know if the time released version of Niacin is better than the normal version? I just found one that seems to be available on the local web.

Ok, so this is something I now know a bit more about after a few weeks of research. The terminology around Niacin is incredibly confusing in that Niacin can come in so many forms. Not only is there slow release and immediate release, but there's also Nicotinic Acid, Nicotinamide, Nicotinamide Riboside, Niacin as Inositol Hexanicotinate etc.

DO NOT BUY EXTENDED RELEASE NIACIN

Extended release niacin has actually been shown to cause liver damage. This is something you must avoid at all costs. You also don't want to make the mistake of getting Nicotimanide, which is the non-flush version of Niacin (although some people do report flushing at high enough doses). The whole point of this protocol is to induce a flush, otherwise you may as well pop a sugar pill.

To put it simply, for whoever is thinking of trying the Stamet's stack or using Niacin in general, you want to get immediate release Nicotinic Acid. This is the one I've been using and it works like a charm - I usually get a flush within 10-15 minutes. These are 16 mg pills so you'll need to take a few to induce a flush. I took 48 mg on my first day and only felt slight tingling, but took 96 mg the day after and got a full on flush. I've since had to up my dose every day because like everyone else who supplements with Niacin I'm building tolerance, which is why you actually want to take regular breaks for several days at a time - I'm currently trialing 4 days on 3 days off. I had to take 250 mg to get a flush on my 4th day, which was 2.5 times more than the 100 mg I needed on the 2nd day.

 

[Christiaan]

Ok, so this is something I now know a bit more about after a few weeks of research. The terminology around Niacin is incredibly confusing in that Niacin can come in so many forms. Not only is there slow release and immediate release, but there's also Nicotinic Acid, Nicotinamide, Nicotinamide Riboside, Niacin as Inositol Hexanicotinate etc.

DO NOT BUY EXTENDED RELEASE NIACIN

Extended release niacin has actually been shown to cause liver damage. This is something you must avoid at all costs. You also don't want to make the mistake of getting Nicotimanide, which is the non-flush version of Niacin (although some people do report flushing at high enough doses). The whole point of this protocol is to induce a flush, otherwise you may as well pop a sugar pill.

To put it simply, for whoever is thinking of trying the Stamet's stack or using Niacin in general, you want to get immediate release Nicotinic Acid. This is the one I've been using and it works like a charm - I usually get a flush within 10-15 minutes. These are 16 mg pills so you'll need to take a few to induce a flush. I took 48 mg on my first day and only felt slight tingling, but took 96 mg the day after and got a full on flush. I've since had to up my dose every day because like everyone else who supplements with Niacin I'm building tolerance, which is why you actually want to take regular breaks for several days at a time - I'm currently trialing 4 days on 3 days off. I had to take 250 mg to get a flush on my 4th day, which was 2.5 times more than the 100 mg I needed on the 2nd day.

Thanks for the post. It seems like you got a very potent Niacin. I would love to try your brand but it seems off limits for me to buy the Oxford one in the Netherlands.

I seem only to have some effect with flushing around the 400 mg mark, like warm ears, etc. I will probably up my dose to 600 mg max. to see what its effects are.

 

[Lukee]

Thanks for the post. It seems like you got a very potent Niacin. I would love to try your brand but it seems off limits for me to buy the Oxford one in the Netherlands.

I seem only to have some effect with flushing around the 400 mg mark, like warm ears, etc. I will probably up my dose to 600 mg max. to see what its effects are.

Nicotinic acid aka Niacin is simple B3. As soon as it mentions anything other (like non-flushing or extended release, etc.) it is no longer simple niacin.

In terms of potency, all B3 is basically created equally.

@Aaron91 might get a flush at 75 mg where I get it at 200 mg and you require 600 mg, this is all physiological and not dependent on the brand. Niacin flush can also be affected by diet, body weight, water intake, full or empty stomach and other vitamins/medications. So don't worry about the potency, they are all created equally.

 

[Christiaan]

Holy cr**. I've just turned into a red lobster and I can tell you I've never had it that hot in my life What's going on? I took the same amount as yesterday but now it looks like as if I've taken 3x as much. Still alive, but damn.

 

[Christiaan]

Nicotinic acid aka Niacin is simple B3. As soon as it mentions anything other (like non-flushing or extended release, etc.) it is no longer simple niacin.

In terms of potency, all B3 is basically created equally.

@Aaron91 might get a flush at 75 mg where I get it at 200 mg and you require 600 mg, this is all physiological and not dependent on the brand. Niacin flush can also be affected by diet, body weight, water intake, full or empty stomach and other vitamins/medications. So don't worry about the potency, they are all created equally.

To @Aaron91 & @Lukee, what is the safe upper limit for Niacin? Having a flush for a prolonged amount of time could not be considered safe, is it?

 

[Lukee]

what is the safe upper limit for Niacin? Having a flush for a prolonged amount of time could not be considered safe, is it?

I'm not a doctor so this is not medical advice but I believe 1g a day is well tolerated. Many people take up to 2g without ill effect.

In terms of the length of the flush, I don't believe it's dependent on the dose. The dose will play a part in the severity of the flush but not the length (for most part).

Generally, a flush should last no more than 30 minutes and should be fully subsided in about 45 minutes.

The concern with high doses of Niacin is liver damage but anything under 1g daily should be relatively safe. Once you build up a tolerance it's a good idea to cycle on and off.

 

[Christiaan]

I'm not a doctor so this is not medical advice but I believe 1g a day is well tolerated. Many people take up to 2g without ill effect.

In terms of the length of the flush, I don't believe it's dependent on the dose. The dose will play a part in the severity of the flush but not the length (for most part).

Generally, a flush should last no more than 30 minutes and should be fully subsided in about 45 minutes.

The concern with high doses of Niacin is liver damage but anything under 1g daily should be relatively safe. Once you build up a tolerance it's a good idea to cycle on and off.

Thanks for the umpteenth time, @Lukee.

I'm wondering about something else: Have you also tried the Stamet's Protocol? If so, how did it go?

@Aaron91 and @Quiet please, how are you two holding up?

 

[Lukee]

Thanks for the umpteenth time, @Lukee.

I'm wondering about something else: Have you also tried the Stamet's Protocol? If so, how did it go?

@Aaron91 and @Quiet please, how are you two holding up?

Haven't tried the full protocol yet. I have tried just Lion's Mane and Niacin with little effect, but only for about 5 days.

 

[Chris S.]

Just a word of warning about Lion's Mane - I started taking it yesterday and it seemed to help a bit, but I woke up on Day 2 with a very aggressive tinnitus, with a change in pitch and intensity. I hope it's a temporary rebound effect of some sort. I don't think I'll continue taking the Lion's Mane…

 

[Lukee]

Just a word of warning about Lion's Mane - I started taking it yesterday and it seemed to help a bit, but I woke up on Day 2 with a very aggressive tinnitus, with a change in pitch and intensity. I hope it's a temporary rebound effect of some sort. I don't think I'll continue taking the Lion's Mane…

I can't say for sure the same thing has happened with Lion's Mane but I get the same effect from Vitamin B1. It's transient and usually goes away after a day. I have read a lot about neuropathy getting worse before it gets better when on treatments, specifically tingling. Could it be that worsening of tinnitus is a healing mechanism when taking these supplements?

 

[Chris S.]

I can't say for sure the same thing has happened with Lion's Mane but I get the same effect from Vitamin B1. It's transient and usually goes away after a day. I have read a lot about neuropathy getting worse before it gets better when on treatments, specifically tingling. Could it be that worsening of tinnitus is a healing mechanism when taking these supplements?

Hopefully, this may be the case. I am not panicking yet, but I am not sure if I will go back to taking the extract.

 

[Christiaan]

Just a word of warning about Lion's Mane - I started taking it yesterday and it seemed to help a bit, but I woke up on Day 2 with a very aggressive tinnitus, with a change in pitch and intensity. I hope it's a temporary rebound effect of some sort. I don't think I'll continue taking the Lion's Mane…

Interesting... Do you use it in combination with other supplements?

I actually experience the opposite effect right now, though I also throw Niacin, Psilocybin, Magnesium, Algae oil, Lutein and other pro-BDNF/NGF stuff in the mix.

 

[Chris S.]

Interesting... Do you use it in combination with other supplements?

No, no other supplements.

 

[Lukee]

Interesting... Do you use it in combination with other supplements?

I actually experience the opposite effect right now, though I also throw Niacin, Psilocybin, Magnesium, Algae oil, Lutein and other pro-BDNF/NGF stuff in the mix.

How is it going for you with the psilocybin in the mix?

 

[GBB]

Just gonna throw it out there that I was taking this for months when I developed my severe tinnitus. It seems to affect opioid receptors in the cochlea and may sensitize/desensitize them.

"Erinacines are diterpenoids that have been shown to increase nerve growth factor mRNA expression; another type called erinacine E is a kappa opioid receptor (KOR) agonist, which may help with opioid addiction and pain."

International Tinnitus Journal, Vol. 5, No.2, 76-91 (1999) Endogenous Dynorphins: Possible Role in Peripheral Tinnitus​

I can't say for sure but it might have contributed to my situation. I think like most things some people probably will have the opposite effect and it can help them.

 

[Christiaan]

How is it going for you with the psilocybin in the mix?

It makes quite a difference, to be honest. I am experiencing a subtle decrease in my tinnitus. Another thing, which I didn't expect at all, is a major decrease in annoyance. It's a bit like mindfulness, as in that I feel and hear my tinnitus, but it doesn't really elicit a strong or negative response from me anymore (e.g. negative thoughts). I'd consider that as a major bonus.

 

[Christiaan]

No, no other supplements.

Sorry to hear that. I really don't know what else might be at play. But like @Lukee said, your spike might very well be a temporary issue as an effect by Lion's Mane.

 

[Chris S.]

Not sure if GBB's post is what I need to hear right now... My situation is unchanged - the massive tinnitus spike is not going away for now. I will update if/when that changes. If others are thinking of using Lion's Mane - be careful.

 

[Marin]

Just a word of warning about Lion's Mane - I started taking it yesterday and it seemed to help a bit, but I woke up on Day 2 with a very aggressive tinnitus, with a change in pitch and intensity. I hope it's a temporary rebound effect of some sort. I don't think I'll continue taking the Lion's Mane…

Nerve growth factor can induce histamine release from mast cells which can make inflammation worse for some people. I highly suspect I have mast cell issues, and lion's mane temporarily spiked my tinnitus and made my ear pain worse.

I supposed that could explain why it spikes tinnitus in some other people, too.

Interestingly, I've tried Psilocybin once so far and it did not negatively effect my ears which is pretty amazing since everything else does.

 

[Lukee]

Not sure if GBB's post is what I need to hear right now... My situation is unchanged - the massive tinnitus spike is not going away for now. I will update if/when that changes. If others are thinking of using Lion's Mane - be careful.

I can't say for sure but Lion's Mane might have increased my hyperacusis albeit temporarily. I feel like the days when I took it my ears were more sensitive so maybe @GBB has something with his post.

My tinnitus never really spiked on Lion's Mane, not that I noticed anyway. I would think this is temporary and should come back down.

 

[Lukee]

It makes quite a difference, to be honest. I am experiencing a subtle decrease in my tinnitus. Another thing, which I didn't expect at all, is a major decrease in annoyance. It's a bit like mindfulness, as in that I feel and hear my tinnitus, but it doesn't really elicit a strong or negative response from me anymore (e.g. negative thoughts). I'd consider that as a major bonus.

There are certainly people for whom this has worked for. Like I said in other posts, it's typically at a macro dose and not microdosing, but if you are feeling improvements then I would continue on. The mental aspect is 90% of the game. As I've said before, if you have a condition but it doesn't bother you, is it really an issue?

Of course QoL is affected because we still have to mostly be cautious of noise exposure and such but if you can go about your day without being aggravated, anxious or depressed by your tinnitus, I think you're winning.

 

[Chris S.]

Nerve growth factor can induce histamine release from mast cells which can make inflammation worse for some people. I highly suspect I have mast cell issues, and lion's mane temporarily spiked my tinnitus and made my ear pain worse.

I supposed that could explain why it spikes tinnitus in some other people, too.

Interestingly, I've tried Psilocybin once so far and it did not negatively effect my ears which is pretty amazing since everything else does.

Thanks for this observation, Marin. How long did it take for the spike induced by Lion's Mane to subside? I am on Day 3 and have just had another night of very little sleep and don't know for how long I can take this.

 

[Lukee]

Thanks for this observation, Marin. How long did it take for the spike induced by Lion's Mane to subside? I am on Day 3 and have just had another night of very little sleep and don't know for how long I can take this.

If @Marin is correct about the histamine, maybe you could try taking an anti-histamine to help and see if that will bring down the spike.

 

[GBB]

Thanks for this observation, Marin. How long did it take for the spike induced by Lion's Mane to subside? I am on Day 3 and have just had another night of very little sleep and don't know for how long I can take this.

I took it for like 6 months straight so if you immediately discontinue, hopefully the symptoms will subside.

 

[Marin]

Thanks for this observation, Marin. How long did it take for the spike induced by Lion's Mane to subside? I am on Day 3 and have just had another night of very little sleep and don't know for how long I can take this.

I think my spike calmed down in a day or two. I had only taken one capsule and had an immediate negative reaction so I stopped right away. I hope yours calms down soon! I agree with @Lukee that trying an antihistamine could be helpful.

 

[Quiet please]

I didn't get the nerve to try the Niacin because of the flushing. I'm allergic to peach & grape skin. After eating, I get a very bad flush & my anxiety goes up exponentially.

I have been using the Lion's Mane alone and my tinnitus is nonstop through the roof.

As of this am, I've stopped taking it for now to experiment to see if it's a coincidence or not.

Always something! Not funz.

 

[Christiaan]

I didn't get the nerve to try the Niacin because of the flushing. I'm allergic to peach & grape skin. After eating, I get a very bad flush & my anxiety goes up exponentially.

I have been using the Lion's Mane alone and my tinnitus is nonstop through the roof.

As of this am, I've stopped taking it for now to experiment to see if it's a coincidence or not.

Always something! Not funz.

I didn't know that grape skin and Niacin share the same compounds! But I completely understand that you quit the Niacin after a similar flushing effect. It's no fun at all, especially the first time.

I also had a moment during my first flush when I thought to myself why I was so stupid to use Niacin in the first place. But luckily after one week I have grown accustomed to it and now it doesn't bother me as much as before.

But it's too bad that Lion's Mane might be the cause of your spike. More and more people are talking about the possible effect of histamine on this forum and I'm wondering why some people do not have the same experience (perhaps that some took certain supplements like Curcumin simultaneously, which btw seems to have an antagonistic effect vs. histamine release, according to one study ).

 

[Quiet please]

@Christiaan, I'm not sure my allergy to peach & grape skins is Niacin related. But just the experience of the flushing was very scary for me. I really don't want to have a repeat like experience. The Lion's Mane probably is the spiking culprit, but am not 100% sure. I'll know as soon as I'm going off it until the tinnitus goes back to baseline & I try once more.

With that said, I am very sensitive to salicylates & I may have been eating too many with a low carb diet of lots of veggies & salads.

# can't-win

 

[MikeAMFM]

I'm getting on the Lion's Mane + B3 Niacin.

I'm doing a small dose and going up daily.

1/4 tsp Lion's Mane, about 690 mg I think.
1/80th tsp Niacin, 25 mg.

Others that I've tried... I think CoQ10 and Quercetin make a difference, but not that much.

After age 27 we lose systemic enzymes to battle inflammation. i.e. healing from cuts slower and all that stuff.

Wobenzyme N is my next one because I'm 36 turning 37 and I figure, what the hell, if my tinnitus is inflammation based...

I really like the Niacin because it opens everything up, but I'm going to start small and build it up. Opening an Excel sheet for this one.

I'm using this Lions Mane:

URL]https://harmonicarts.ca/products/lions-mane-mushroom-tincture[/URL]

The Niacin is just a 50g bulk bag from the nutrition store.