Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)
- Thread starter joe
- Start date
MemberI'm using Konftec for 6 months now (0,5 watts or 500mW). Seems to lower the T for awhile. But I have had spikes of really loud T after using it. But overall, it seems 30 min a day with a few days off in the week is helping.
But that's the point. If that moderator of a pretty large german forum is right, Wilden has a history of advertising success with tinnitool size lasers, which would really mean lllt is all just a con.
Size does not matter, is the power, that is more important. 5 Mw is nothing, 80 Mw is something at least.
And in laser terms is big diference.
Yeah I know physical size doesn't matter. I'm talking about power size which is 5mw on tinnitool, and 35mw for the ones Wilden sells, hardly 80mw. What they say on that german forum is he was peddling smaller mw sizes before, the thing we have to find out is if that's true and how small, as that would put the whole LLLT thing in disrepute.
- Aug 14, 2013
- 2,455
- Tinnitus Since
- Resolved since 2016
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown (medication, head injury)
Well... what exactly are "they" talking about: clinic grade therapy dosage or home laser therapy dosage?
Does it matter? Tinnitool is routinely made fun of by pro-LLLT people, its the very reason why LLLT studies were failed or ''paid by the cochlear implants industry'' kind of thinking. What matters is whether Wilden was indeed claiming successful numbers with 5mw lasers.
Post 15 from this thread in 2008 has someone say he bought a 5mw off of Wilden (to no success).
http://www.actiononhearingloss.org.uk/community/forums/tinnitus.aspx?g=posts&t=1356&jse=1
shiieeet...
- Aug 14, 2013
- 2,455
- Tinnitus Since
- Resolved since 2016
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Unknown (medication, head injury)
And from this post around the same period, it would seem that he - Dr. Wilden - is not using the Tinnitool as his product:
Source: www.actiononhearingloss.org.uk/tinnitusforum.aspx?g=posts&m=8722
Hi All
Just noitece my last post was a month ago. So is time for an update.
I went back to China as I did last December, So being is the same situations give me a better vision of
comparation. I know i´m getting better but you tend to forget the situation to make a comparasitation, Being in the same places and having the same situations,you have better view to compare.
I stoped the laser one week before traveling, so i had time for my ears to rest. It was a wise decision. I had a very calm time during the time i was in China , wich was better than 6 months ago, way better. My T was there when I wake up, and after 1/2 hours start to low to the point where i need it concentrate to ear it. One night was higher but nothing special. So a way better week that 6 months ago. On the flight back to Portugal T was higher than normal, and was high all day when I arrived Portugal. I´m sure i had some food with MSG, cause next day was low, really low. During the time i was in China i borrowed my Laser to a person to see if he got some reaction, but unfornatly nothing during the time he tryied. So no treatment when I got back from China. I can say that week was my best week ever. Every day my T was only when i wake up in the morning and after a wille it got so low to a point where i was thinking it´s gone. Last weekend i had almost two normal days, Just T when I wake up and rest of the day there was almost nothing. As soon I restart the laser T went up again. and it´s been up and down all this week. Some day higher some days lower. I will do it for few more days, and rest again. The incredible thing, is that if I make only 20 minuts of 650 nm at 80 Mw, T goes up right after. The recation is imediate. I´m considering to stop for a more time, maybe a full month or more and see. But happy with I already acomplished.
Sheers all.
Just noitece my last post was a month ago. So is time for an update.
I went back to China as I did last December, So being is the same situations give me a better vision of
comparation. I know i´m getting better but you tend to forget the situation to make a comparasitation, Being in the same places and having the same situations,you have better view to compare.
I stoped the laser one week before traveling, so i had time for my ears to rest. It was a wise decision. I had a very calm time during the time i was in China , wich was better than 6 months ago, way better. My T was there when I wake up, and after 1/2 hours start to low to the point where i need it concentrate to ear it. One night was higher but nothing special. So a way better week that 6 months ago. On the flight back to Portugal T was higher than normal, and was high all day when I arrived Portugal. I´m sure i had some food with MSG, cause next day was low, really low. During the time i was in China i borrowed my Laser to a person to see if he got some reaction, but unfornatly nothing during the time he tryied. So no treatment when I got back from China. I can say that week was my best week ever. Every day my T was only when i wake up in the morning and after a wille it got so low to a point where i was thinking it´s gone. Last weekend i had almost two normal days, Just T when I wake up and rest of the day there was almost nothing. As soon I restart the laser T went up again. and it´s been up and down all this week. Some day higher some days lower. I will do it for few more days, and rest again. The incredible thing, is that if I make only 20 minuts of 650 nm at 80 Mw, T goes up right after. The recation is imediate. I´m considering to stop for a more time, maybe a full month or more and see. But happy with I already acomplished.
Sheers all.
So one guy says he was using a 5mw product and all we have right now is that Wilden said but hey it isn't the tinnitool. Not all 5mw lasers are tinnitools.
We're still left wondering if, when according to
http://medicallasersystems.com/about_laser.html
''In the 1980s however, technological advances allowed for the emergence of relatively inexpensive laser diodes with a wide range of wavelengths. Many Therapeutic Lasers were developed and sold during this period, but were all very low power, around 1 miliwatt(mW). The development of devices for LT has proceeded in such small steps because rather than being driven by the demand for LT devices, the production and availability of laser diodes is driven by the massive demand for laser diodes in technology such as compact disc players, laser scanners, and for a wide range of defense applications. As these technologies matured in the 1990's, they were able to handle much higher power outputs, as high as 500mW, resulting in shorter treatment times for LT applications.''
and Wilden
http://www.dr-wilden.de/en_praxis/11.html
becomes a laser specialist already in 1990, probably publishing successes by 1994, there is more than nagging doubt whether he might have just been riding the laser industry's wattages all along.
Hi @FERNANDO GIL
I am going to see Anne very soon. Nervous and excited at the same time. I will stay for 9 treatments. Any suggestion for me while I stay there? I stop lucky laser for two weeks according to Anne's instruction. Thank you in advance.
I am going to see Anne very soon. Nervous and excited at the same time. I will stay for 9 treatments. Any suggestion for me while I stay there? I stop lucky laser for two weeks according to Anne's instruction. Thank you in advance.
Hi
During the time I was there it was winter, so at 4 PM was night already, so not much done. Laser and then get back to the Guest house. I run and work at night. Now you will be there on the exacto oposite, almost for sure you will day light till 10 PM. Go to Oslo and if Anne have a chance ask her yo show near her house. it looked nice.
ruben ruiz
Member
Im using the spa model form Wilden. It seems to bring relief for a while then the T returns.
Ive been using it for 10 months. It seems the warmth is appreciated by the ears. I wish someone would invent ear plugs that warm the inside of the ears for a kind of relief.
Ive been using it for 10 months. It seems the warmth is appreciated by the ears. I wish someone would invent ear plugs that warm the inside of the ears for a kind of relief.
- Aug 21, 2014
- 5,049
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- karma
It does seem that a number of people report spikes -- and I myself had two terrifyingly loud spikes both times I experimented with IR LED LLLT using a device which in theory shouldn't even be able to penetrate the outer ear.
Take that as you will; I personally do not think it's reasonable to suggest that something which causes a severe, short term spike in tinnitus, is necessarily useful in the long term -- if I believed that, then I suppose I'd treat my tinnitus by shooting a pistol with no earplugs.
- Aug 21, 2014
- 5,049
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- karma
I've got one of these sitting on my desk; should I point it into my ear? I'm pretty sure it'll be able to penetrate into the cochlea, given that it can burn holes in masonite.
http://www.wickedlasers.com/arctic
http://www.wickedlasers.com/arctic
canyonero
Member
Haha, I have messed around with lasers and hit my skin with a 1W for just a second and it hurt and left a burn. Imagine 2W on the eardrum would be like sticking a hot coal into your ear.
But you would not mind to put a lamp with 60 W near you ear?
When you talk about laser treatment you must ALWAYS refer to the wavelenght, so please advise what was the wavelength of the laser you refer. If not then you are giving wrong information, Second and last when talk about LLLT we tall about mW 1/1000 of a watt.
Wich is UGE diference....
Anyone that does LLLT knows and try to make the treatment, knows that T will be up for some time before it calms dow to a new level. Unforntly is that the way the treatment works. I wish it was not.
When I mean SPIKE is a sound inside my ear that goes up a LOT for about 10/15 seconds and right after nothing.
If i took someone in a misunderstang sorry for that.
I know ATEOS had it, and Hansi talks about them as well. The reason I say i like it, cause i know the regeneration process is still going. If i Like to have louder T for a week, NO i don´t.
For sure a better description of I intentend to say with spike.
Once again sorry for the misuderstanding.
"
Hansi said:
October 15, 2010 at 1:53 pm
The sudden loud tinnitus sounds is a great sign. Very good.
I had lots of that a couple of weeks before I reached the point where I could say that I definitly had improved.
But…the first time it happened I git really scared.
I was laying down and relaxed with th result that the T was quite friendly and "hissy" when suddenly.
a) The hissing sound became 10 times as loud for a half second
b) everything went totally silent for a half second
c) this gigantic carhorn sound entered for something like 8 seconds before it faded away and the hissing sound was back.
I remember I said "Hello" just to check that I still could hear.
Very scary, but today I smile when I think about it.
"
Just an update. I don't have *ANY* spikes now with the laser. Also, my T is very low. Probably a 3/10. It has been this way for a few weeks. I can't prove the laser did this but it is no longer loud T. I use the laser 5 times a week for 30 min. That is just my report...take it or leave it but I don't agree with @linearb or @Nucleo . However, what works (or doesn't) for them is what this board is about. For me, LLLT is working and I don't see any harmful affects. As long as this is the case, I will continue. If not, I would surely stop.
MontmorencyTT
Member
- Jun 21, 2015
- 16
- Tinnitus Since
- 1/1990 (very approx)
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Probably ear infection. (Also led to HF hearing loss)
Hi David,
None that I have discovered so far. I'm also in the UK and was hoping to find somewhere closer, but the nearest I have found is a place in Dublin (who haven't answered my email, so doesn't inspire confidence).
If you discover somewhere in the UK, please post and I will do the same.
Best wishes,
Mike
Hi @FERNANDO GIL
Want to get your opinion about movie theater. Is it safe to go to the movie theater? The movies now are all very loud. I saw the movie last Saturday after a long time and notice the T is louder today (did not notice it immediately but today it is louder). I hope it is not due to the movie otherwise I will be kicking myself. I wore wax ear plugs plus press my ears whenever I sense the music is too loud. Did you ever go to see movies in the movie theater or we should avoid it at all costs. Hope I am not over-senstive about this.
Thank you for your reply in advance.
Want to get your opinion about movie theater. Is it safe to go to the movie theater? The movies now are all very loud. I saw the movie last Saturday after a long time and notice the T is louder today (did not notice it immediately but today it is louder). I hope it is not due to the movie otherwise I will be kicking myself. I wore wax ear plugs plus press my ears whenever I sense the music is too loud. Did you ever go to see movies in the movie theater or we should avoid it at all costs. Hope I am not over-senstive about this.
Thank you for your reply in advance.
I don´t go to a movie since I started the laser.
Two weeks ago I went to dinner out with friends, and was in a festive place. They start a concert, i stayed for a 1/2 hour and after a few days my T went up I was wearing plugs. And today I was talking to the Portuguese lady that is LLLT as well, and even with plugs after a a movie her T was loud as well. And remember what happen to Nick.
Avoid noise places as much as possible. And movies this days about 100 db all the time and during 2 hours. I was thinking to see Star Wars 7 in December but today I see I will not do it.
Thank you for your quick reply. I will avoid going to the movies now. I have only gone twice since I started LLLT. I am pretty careful about avoiding the noise. Thought ear plugs will help to protect in the theater and decide to go. Not going anymore. Just watch the movies at home. Not worth the risk. Did your T increase after the dinner party go back to normal now? What about the porguese lady?
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