Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[Starman9]

I've been using this device on and off for a short while: https://redlightman.com/product/infrared-830-device/

It's high powered and quite convenient for shining into ears - I lay on the floor and put the device on a couple of books so that it shines directly into my ear, touching or almost touching the ear. I'm giving each ear 15 minutes a day.

My main problem is hyperacusis but I do have some tinnitus which can get loud after exposure to moderate level sound. My tinnitus actually completely disappeared after two days use of this but then re-emerged more strongly a couple of days later. This could be coincidence. If anything, the hyperacusis has got slightly worse, but again this could be coincidental. I have wondered if I'm giving my ears too great a dose. Light therapy dose is biphasic, so too much is as bad as not enough!

I'm going to take the following online hearing test now so that I can see if there are measurable changes in a month or three: https://hearingtest.online/

I have very high quality in-ear monitors (JH 13) and audio interface (RME Multiface 2) that I can use for this test and I'll take care to set everything in the chain at precisely the same level for all tests I take.

 

[Jim51042]

r almost touching the ear. I'm giving each ear 15 minutes a day

This is probably too large a dose. I feel like it made my T worse at 5 mins.

 

[Jim51042]

I then no longer placed in next to my ear

 

[Starman9]

Thanks @Jim51042

You also using the 'Infrared 830 device'?

 

[Starman9]

I've just taken a hearing test using this site. https://hearingtest.online/ See images below. Top image is left ear.

Viewing these test results in isolation may not give an accurate indication of my hearing as the frequency response of my in-ear monitors is unknown etc. But I do have a very clean and high quality audio setup and have made a careful note of all gain settings etc. so that subsequent tests will be made under absolutely identical conditions. I also just took the test twice and got identical results! So these tests will be meaningful when compared with later tests following further light therapy. I decided to use Shure SE846 in-ear-monitors for this test btw (contrary to what I wrote in my previous post).

 

[Jim51042]

Actually the mini combo

 

[Bobby B]

@Starman9
This is pretty good hearing unless you are a teenager

But he tinnitus and h may be caused by loss above 10khz

 

[Starman9]

@Starman9
This is pretty good hearing unless you are a teenager

But he tinnitus and h may be caused by loss above 10khz

Yes, at 12.5khz my hearing is about -50db. Let's see if the light helps!

 

[Blue28]

@Starman9... I'd be interested to hear if the lamp helps as my hearing at 12khz is around -55db. I have tinnitus and hyperacusis also. Keep us all informed, good luck!

 

[mikeplas]

Thanks for the information, i am doubting ordering the device myself. I am following your reply`s here, so keep posting! Thank you Starman9!
For 90 euro it`s worth giving it a shot, but how long and how frequent you must use it to be effective is not easy if you have to find out yourself!

I asked Lucky Laser people what there device cost also, it is a great risk if it doesn`t work my money is gone. My wife thinks it is all a scam, i am doubting! Here is a copy of the e-mail i send them!

Hi Mike

Thanks for your email.
2 probes tinnitus laser consists of one 808nm laser probe and one 650nm laser probe. Price is USD 1600
4 probes tinnitus laser consists of two 808nm laser probes and two 650nm laser probes. Price is USD 2100
The difference is 4 probes tinnitus laser more than 2 probes (one 808nm probe and one 650nm probe) than 2 probes tinnitus laser.
If you have one ear tinnitus, we kindly suggest you to buy 2 probes tinnitus laser.
If you have both ears tinnitus, we kindly suggest you to buy 4 probes tinnitus laser.

If you have anything unclear, please email me immediately without any hesitation.

 

[Bobby B]

The lucky laser is a good option because it has lots of power at 808nm and a pulsed feature - much better than the very weak laser sold by some doctors

Or if you don't have the money then a 20w 850nm led will also work for much less but you may need a bit of DIY

 

[lymebite]

The 830 nm LED device used by @Starman9 looks like it is 60 watts with a power density of up to 1500 mW / cm2 according to the RLM website. Quite a powerful little unit!

https://redlightman.com/product/infrared-830-device/

 

[Bobby B]

it says that this device covers 60cm diameter..how are you going to target the ears ? this is more like a body - back ache etc.. application

anyway, i happen to have some back ache too so i just ordered one

 

[mikeplas]

@lymebite & @Bobby B
Is the cheaper one perhaps better to target your ears, it says it has a narrow beam angle for high penetration! The trick with both devices is how to, and how long to use it. I am scared that my T get worse or it does not work at all if i use it wrong, tricky, tricky, tricky!

https://redlightman.com/product/infrared-light-device-mini/

 

[Tom Cnyc]

guys - Redlightman suggests 60 joules for nerve tissue. It says clearly on the site how to accomplish this.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

It´s been a while not coming here. Read some posts. And from what I read, there is a big mistake going on. I know and said before. Money is a big issue when it comes to LLLT and laser therapy.
LED´s are NOT LASER. Buying a cheap device that has red light, is not the same as doing LLLT.

LLLT treatment is not just buying a red light and it´s done.

If you do it, do it right.

Cheers to all.

 

[Paulmanlike]

Until any hard evidence comes about, don't do it at all. Or wait until inner hair cell regeneration comes about through gene or stem cell therapy. Very interesting times ahead in terms of hair cell regeneration.

 

[Bobby B]

@Paulmanlike
We already have several independent studies on rats showing hair cells regeneration and nerve regeneration in the acute phase vs placebo so the science and hard evidence is there - the question is how will this work if the damage has been there for a long time ..maybe not as good therefore it's good to have a device ready in hand in case of future noise traumas , this alone is worth the price.

 

[Paulmanlike]

I have a tinnitool here from years ago

 

[LR.]

Hi all,

I have read different studies/reports and I believe some of us can benefit from LLLT (probably not all of us).
I want to buy a laser to do the laser therapy at home. However, apart from Dr. Wilden's laser, I don't know what other options are there in the market (in terms of lasers for home therapy).

Could anyone please tell me other laser options and the advantages/disadvantages (and other features such as price, how easy to use, etc) of those options?

I am tagging
@Bobby B @Cal18 @FERNANDO GIL @attheedgeofscience as I have read a lot of your posts and I find your inputs very valuable.

Thanks.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi all,

I have read different studies/reports and I believe some of us can benefit from LLLT (probably not all of us).
I want to buy a laser to do the laser therapy at home. However, apart from Dr. Wilden's laser, I don't know what other options are there in the market (in terms of lasers for home therapy).

Could anyone please tell me other laser options and the advantages/disadvantages (and other features such as price, how easy to use, etc) of those options?

I am tagging
@Bobby B @Cal18 @FERNANDO GIL @attheedgeofscience as I have read a lot of your posts and I find your inputs very valuable.

Thanks.

Since you are in London, try here first.Maybe they can help you and see if LLLT works for you.
please do not buy a Tinnitol.that is not LLLT.
Fernando
http://photobiomodulationstudio.uk

 

[LR.]

Since you are in London, try here first.Maybe they can help you and see if LLLT works for you.
please do not buy a Tinnitol.that is not LLLT.
Fernando
http://photobiomodulationstudio.uk

Thank you @FERNANDO GIL , I will contact them tomorrow and see what I an do with them.
Between Dr. Wilden laser and lucky laser, which one do you recommend? Is there any big difference between these two devices?

Thanks.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Lucky laser

 

[Tom Cnyc]

@FERNANDO GIL

Why do you say the LED cannot work? What is different about the light?

-Tom

 

[Starman9]

Here's a light that may be of interest. I've not used it but it's got to be worth a punt at such a cheap price! Cheap as chips and powerful too! It requires a separate power supply.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...iveASIN=B00M3NHCC6&linkCode=as2&tag=refm08-21

The light has a sensor that only allows it to switch on in a dark environment. But presumably this could be worked around by simply covering the sensor!

According to the following link, this particular light produces 200mw/cm2 at about 13cm distance.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product...iveASIN=B00M3NHCC6&linkCode=as2&tag=refm08-21

 

[Bobby B]

In the link of the clinic he did recommend there is no distinction made between LED or Laser in terms of effectiveness.

In fact, from a human cell perspective receiving a photon there is no difference if it was generated from LED or Laser.

The THOR device mentioned in that UK clinic link is all LED.

Formerly known as Low-level Light Laser Therapy (LLLT), Photobiomodulation (PBM) is the application of light (usually a low power laser or LED) to promote tissue repair, reduce inflammation or induce analgesia.

@FERNANDO GIL

Why do you say the LED cannot work? What is different about the light?

-Tom

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I know. I want to hear his logic. Though

In the link of the clinic he did recommend there is no distinction made between LED or Laser in terms of effectiveness.

In fact, from a human cell perspective receiving a photon there is no difference if it was generated from LED or Laser.

The THOR device mentioned in that UK clinic link is all LED.

Formerly known as Low-level Light Laser Therapy (LLLT), Photobiomodulation (PBM) is the application of light (usually a low power laser or LED) to promote tissue repair, reduce inflammation or induce analgesia.

 

[Paulmanlike]

Lol

 

[summ]

Hi, I've been reacting positively to local LLLT, which is 820nm 300mW continuous and pulse.
Lucky laser with shipping and import duties costs 2400 or 3100 EUR, which is a LOT.
Is someone here considering selling their Lucky Laser?

 

[Tom Rollison]

Hi. I'm brand new here. My profile is up. Just wanted to chime in here as I have some experience with photobiomodulation. I started looking into it as a therapy for my arthritis and worsening joints in general. I've been a very active person all my life. Long distance running, back packing, dancing, lot's of physical work, drumming, guitar, bass, etc. When it looked like I needed a fourth knee operation my orthopedic doctor told me forget it. At my age it's diminishing returns. As I had a long vacation coming up when I expected to be walking a LOT ( ever been to Paris?) I was desperate to find some way to mitigate the pain in my knee. I read about LLLT which led to LED lights for photobiomodulation.

There is a famous Russian scientist who was the big pioneer and promoter of LLLT who himself said exactly what Bobby B quoted. I can certainly vouch for LEDs. My knee is completely pain free at this point. It's a natural modality, which means it takes time. It's not a pill you take and voila. There's a lot of very good science behind this therapy however.

My tinnitus had been noticeable, as opposed to ignorable, for a couple of years . I chalked it up to getting older. But I just went through a health event that seems to have made it much worse. I woke up one day to find that I had intense vertigo and a raging headache. I was pinned to the sofa and no amount of pills would break the headache. This the third day and it is finally letting up a bit. Finally the naproxen is cutting the headache. I have no idea what precipitated this. I did immediately try wrapping the lights around my head. The system I use is not cheap but of very good quality I think. They recommend 20 minutes (the system shuts itself off at that mark) no more than twice a day. I can't say if the lights are helping this condition or it's just the passage of time and healing itself. But today I was finally clear headed enough to realize the my tinnitus is quite a bit louder. I am sure this is related to the vertigo. I am also pretty sure (knock on wood) that this is not Mennier's. I have a good friend who has that so I'm pretty knowledgeable on that too.

So I am now trying to apply the lights every day to my head and ears. It's just been two days so much too soon to say anything about results. I will certainly write up a note if I hear an improvement that seems positive. The lights can have an actual healing effect not just analgesic. But it does require real consistency. I now only apply them to my knee when I feel it's needed before a big hike and after. And it continues to be pain free. Sorry for the long post. Here's the system I use: http://www.ledtherapylights.com/