Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[Tom Cnyc]

@Bobby B why is the wide beam an issue? Power by cm2 is actually pretty high, no?

 

[Bobby B]

Not really
There is a huge lense and it did not feel warm like my lucky laser at 808nm

I doubt these numbers translate into real optical power

But the fan noise alone makes it totally useless for our application

Save your cash and build your own led
There is one poster who did it and showed us pics - his ID is pumkinate

 

[jer]

Could anyone out here put together some sort of guide on lasers to use / if you are making it home made, what you need. Materials. Strength of the laser, you name it? That would be amazing for anyone trying to use this.

 

[Bobby B]

No Lasers

Use LED

 

[Frédéric]

Alterations in Auditory Electrophysiological Responses Associated With Temporary Suppression of Tinnitus Induced by Low-Level Laser Therapy: A Before-After Case Series

Abstract

Introduction: Tinnitus is the phantom auditory perception of sound in the absence of an external or internal acoustic stimulus. The treatment is difficult due to multiple etiologies and great psychological influence. The purpose of this study was to determine alterations in auditory physiological and electrophysiological responses associated with temporary suppression of tinnitus induced by low-level laser (LLL) irradiation.

Methods: This study was conducted on 20 subjects with subjective tinnitus. All subjects signed the informed consent form and satisfied all the study eligibility criteria. Visual analog scale (VAS) for loudness, loudness matching of tinnitus (LMT), pitch matching of tinnitus (PMT), Persian-tinnitus questionnaire (P-TQ) and Persian-tinnitus handicap inventory (P-THI) were conducted pre- and post-low level laser therapy (LLLT) for all the subjects. Electrocochleography (ECochG) and distortion product otoacoustic emissions (DPOAEs) were recorded in 11 subjects. Continuous wave diode lasers, including red (630 nm) and infra-red (808 nm) were applied, and were both designed by the Canadian Optic and Laser (COL) Center. Twelve sessions of laser therapy were performed, 2 sessions per week for each subject. Total dose was 120 Joule/ ear/session.

Results: LLL irradiation could cause a significant decrease in subjective tests scores consisting of VAS for loudness, PMT, P-TQ, P-THI, but did not result in a significant improvement of objective evaluating parameters except for compound action potential (CAP) amplitude.

Conclusion: LLLT might be a subjectively effective treatment for short-term improvement of tinnitus. Defining a new protocol for optimizing LLLT parameters may be an option to improve parameters of objective tests.

Keywords: Low level laser; Tinnitus; Electrocochleography; Distortion product; Optoacoustic emission.

Full text: attached file

 

[Noise_sucks]

Hi there,

I just registered only to participate in this Thread. I have some experiences with LLLT done by Lumomed in Germany (son of Dr. Wilden).
I don't want to support their extensive prices anymore. This Thread is really huge and it's nearly impossible for someone who is new to the Thread to find anything:

So here's the question: How can you build your own LED or Laser-Device for home therapy? I know there is some kind of DIY-Instruction inside this thread (it gets mentioned from time to time).
Can someone link to this or give an Instruction?

Thanks,
ns

 

[Bobby B]

buy a 20W LED in 850nm online
optical power is about 10% of the electrical power so you have the equivalent of a very powerful 2000Mw laser unfocused for safety
you will need a heat sink on the LED as it heats - PC supply stuff, cheap

you need a power source in the right voltage - a transformer or battery, cheap

thats it , all these supplies should be under 100 Deutschmarks and use it 10 minutes per ear every 3 days or once per week don't overdo it it takes time

 

[Noise_sucks]

buy a 20W LED in 850nm online
optical power is about 10% of the electrical power so you have the equivalent of a very powerful 2000Mw laser unfocused for safety
you will need a heat sink on the LED as it heats - PC supply stuff, cheap

you need a power source in the right voltage - a transformer or battery, cheap

So it is just 850nm? I know that Dr. Wilden for example is using two different Wavelengths (pulsating, changing every 10 seconds or so. You can actually hear it "clicking".

Power source: which voltage would be correct? I think I'm gonna try the battery solution first to simplify matters.
Plan is to mount the LED + heatsink to headphones.

 

[Bobby B]

You don't really need pulsating but on and off if it gets too hot on the skin

Pulsating is good to send a powerful beam deep without overheating the surface of the skin

I'm sure it can be easily built into the led circuit as well


Sure Wilden uses a more fancy device very expensive but at the end it's just photons doing the job there is no distinction from the cells in the ear if those came from a laser or a led - same exact photon

Led will waste more photons as its less focused but again the cost of photons is almost zero so it doesn't matter if we waste light

Wavelength is for deep penetration you can try a longer wavelength but you get less photons per second so exposure needs to be longer

 

[Tom Cnyc]

anybody still doing this?

 

[Reinier]

anybody still doing this?

Yes.
I set out to do this for a couple of years. I started in June 2016.
Approximately 20 minutes 5 days a week. Alternating between 650nm (100mW) and 808nm (250mW 10 Hz).
I think the small improvement I noticed in all this time with my hyperacusis, is because of natural healing/adapting. Tinnitus is pretty much the same.
No improvement in hearing. (not checked with audiogram).

 

[Coleoptere]

Still doing 15 minutes LED's 5 Watt 808 Nm every other day since beginning of this year. I had some improvements on 2K and 4K according to heading tests I did myself. Not confirmed by official tests. No improvement on T. H is a bit reduced. Not sure if I will have further improvements or that something different caused these improvements.

 

[Bobby B]

I still do it but I don't notice the same improvements i got in the first weeks or months

I think it's just like steroids - it does help but only in the acute phase, and this has been the conclusion of the various animal studies as well

 

[Bobby B]

I think the value of LLLT is twofold

1 have a device ready to be used asap in case of new noise exposure and thus take advantage of the acute window of opportunity

Note:
I also store an emergency supply of prednisone at home with a proton pump inhibitor as it's hard on the stomach

2 do it once a week and "fix" the on going smaller noise exposure damages which could over years or decades, give your ears better chance against age related hearing loss by preserving those valuable remainig hair cells and nerves

 

[MikeEd]

Does anyone know how I can find a provider for low level laser treatment in southeast Michigan?

 

[Tom Cnyc]

@Bobby B -you started LLLT immediately?

 

[jer]

Or anyone in the Houston area?

 

[Bobby B]

@Bobby B -you started LLLT immediately?

I started at 4 weeks

 

[Bobby B]

Could anyone out here put together some sort of guide on lasers to use / if you are making it home made, what you need. Materials. Strength of the laser, you name it? That would be amazing for anyone trying to use this.

All the info is in these threads

 

[lymebite]

Does anyone know how I can find a provider for low level laser treatment in southeast Michigan?

@MikeEd
@jer

One (pretty good) 0ption is to find a provider near you using the same laser as Lumomed in Germany. The first link shows the laser used by Lumomed. With the second link, you can put in your ZIP code and see who has one of these lasers near you. Then they can contact Lumomed and ask for the protocol for inner ear disorders.

Most areas of the United States seem to have many providers using this laser. To the best of my knowledge, none of them are doing it for the inner ear problems (except for Lumomed's site in Sarasota, Florida) but if they get the protocol from Lumomed they can do it for you and it should be the exact same treatment.

http://www.celasers.com/medical/products/mls-therapy-lasers/m6

http://www.celasers.com/medical/for-patients/find-a-practice

Here is Lumomed's website:

http://lumomed.com/en/home-2/

 

[jer]

@lymebite how safe is just having the protocol though? Don't you need like actual training in ear disorders to do this safe and securely? I do not know how comfortable I would be walking into a chiropractor his place and going. Sir, I know you usually do this for joints, but here is the protocol and could you just point it in my ear and blast away please!

 

[Bobby B]

Yes a clinic is the best option if you have acute damage from noise and no time to waste

For the more chronic cases you won't find much success anyway so instead of wasting money on these clinics, making your own 100 dollars led device is the best option

 

[EatMoTacos]

Or anyone in the Houston area?

I am.

 

[EatMoTacos]

If someone can provide the details of the circuit and or power requirements for the LLLT I could probably build one.

 

[lymebite]

@lymebite how safe is just having the protocol though? Don't you need like actual training in ear disorders to do this safe and securely? I do not know how comfortable I would be walking into a chiropractor his place and going. Sir, I know you usually do this for joints, but here is the protocol and could you just point it in my ear and blast away please!

@jer

Good questions. I don't know the answers for sure. Supposedly this is all perfectly safe as long as you protect your eyes. You could ask Lumomed in Florida if they think your local chiropractor could handle it.

 

[MikeEd]

@MikeEd
@jer

One (pretty good) 0ption is to find a provider near you using the same laser as Lumomed in Germany. The first link shows the laser used by Lumomed. With the second link, you can put in your ZIP code and see who has one of these lasers near you. Then they can contact Lumomed and ask for the protocol for inner ear disorders.

Most areas of the United States seem to have many providers using this laser. To the best of my knowledge, none of them are doing it for the inner ear problems (except for Lumomed's site in Sarasota, Florida) but if they get the protocol from Lumomed they can do it for you and it should be the exact same treatment.

http://www.celasers.com/medical/products/mls-therapy-lasers/m6

http://www.celasers.com/medical/for-patients/find-a-practice

Here is Lumomed's website:

http://lumomed.com/en/home-2/

Thanks, I think the challenge will be finding someone that would be willing to use this on the ear. You would probably need to find a doctor that specializes in ears. I called a few ear doctors the other day and none of them were familiar with laser treatment and they couldn't refer me to anyone did laser treatment.

There is one medical facility on the list in my area I'll try calling them. I doubt if they would be familiar with using it on the ear. They probably won't want to do it for liability reasons. And I doubt if a chiropractor would want to treat ears.

 

[MikeEd]

If someone can provide the details of the circuit and or power requirements for the LLLT I could probably build one.

How do you know that you won't do more damage? Even if you bought a laser how do you know if it's the right type?

 

[EatMoTacos]

How do you know that you won't do more damage? Even if you bought a laser how do you know if it's the right type?

Each component should have specific data sheets attached to them, not any diode or "laser" would do. As long as I know the power requirements and currents, the outputs "should" replicate the study. This is all pre-calculated of course and done with a significant number of testing using my equipment in my garage (o-scope, meters, frequency generators, etc..) to ensure the power output is within +/- 5% tolerance.

 

[jer]

Have you used your homemade LLLT on yourself @EatMoTacos. If so, how have been the results?

 

[EatMoTacos]

Have you used your homemade LLLT on yourself @EatMoTacos. If so, how have been the results?

No I haven't ever used it. My first question was to make one if anyone ever had the circuit diagram.