Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)
- Thread starter joe
- Start date
Member- Nov 25, 2015
- 1,705
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Large caliber rifles&machine guns, +30 years of loud clubs
what a joke - it does not say how many watts of power, certainly well under 100 mw by the look of it - Wilden highest home piece is 80 mw
pretty useless, but looks high tech and cool for sure
pretty useless, but looks high tech and cool for sure
yeah their home laser is absurdly priced. The clinic laser is 25W.
I'm skeptical that either work, and if they do - that they work much better than the LED lamp that Bobby has been using.
I'm skeptical that either work, and if they do - that they work much better than the LED lamp that Bobby has been using.
Good to know the Lumomed laser can be purchased from Florida.
I have posted this chart before, so repeating it for people who have not seen before. It compares specifications and prices all the inner ear therapy lasers (including the Lumomed Luci) being discussed except the Lucky Laser and the infrared LED flashlights on Amazon.
http://www.konftec.com/html/EN/Auricular_Laser_Comparison.htm
I have not seen results yet. But am doing the very conservative dosage approach 10 weeks on (with therapy twice a week) then three months off. So I have completed two cycles so far. Time will tell.
where did you get this protocol? what is the logic behind it?
sorry to hear you haven't seen any results. it's disheartening.
Did you have any temporary effects? spike? etc ?
@Tom Cnyc
The protocol is the Michael Zazzio approach. The Konftec protocol is somewhat similar. Robert Kroll (Lumomed Hamburg) also uses something similar for chronic cases (he uses more frequent treatment for acute cases). I do not think there is any logic or science behind it, I think Michael uses this approach based on his clinical experience, and expect probably the same for Robert. I do not know what is the source of the Konftec protocol.
The challenge with LLLT for inner ear therapy is that very little basic science research has been done. Everyone knows that with all LLLT treatment, too little dosage is not effective and too much dosage is not effective, it has to be just right. For other ailments there seem to be standard protocols developed that say what amount is just right. But nobody really knows what that just right dosage should be for ears.
Fortunately I have not had any temporary side effects. No spikes or anything else. Could be I am not hitting the cochlea at all and that accounts for both my lack of results and lack of temporary side effects. The laser beam on these home lasers is narrow, and the cochlea is small, so maybe I am missing it altogether. The wider beams of some of the clinical lasers have that as an advantage I think.
Hi guys, I'm about to purchase the Lucky Laser and I have been told by a member that if my T is caused by benzo withdrawal (or stress) it won't work and will only work on hearing loss. I'm not sure if I believe this because something structural (and painful) happened directly to my ears (fullness, pressure fluctuations, extreme pain and H). My T is also very reactive to sound. I do have some hereditary mid-level hearing loss but my T came on after my body went into hypersensitivity after a reaction. So even if it's neuronal damage, the laser is supposed to help that was well. Also wondering if it is safe to use while my body is still hypersensitive, many have claimed it to have a soothing effect but I just wanted to make sure.
I was told my John Lieurance at Lumomed that while long term results for tinnitus are not conclusive, they have seen consistent results for hearing loss thresholds.
@FERNANDO GIL So I might be getting some spikes although it's hard to tell as my T is normally all over the place and fluctuates daily and hourly. The one thing I got that I usually don't get (or at least not this severe), is ear pain. I know it's common with H but normally I get a short pain that last a second or two. This pain lasted almost a minute and happened in both ears - this was after my 3rd session with the laser. I know it's common to get spikes but have you heard of anyone having ear pain?
I didn´t know you already have the Laser. Are you using Lucky Laser? What power and time in each frequencie?
The pain is not usual but it can happen. And H being higher is more usual, usualy comes down after.
@FERNANDO GIL I bought the Luci laser from the Lumomed clinic in Florida. My bank was having difficulties with the transfer for the Lucky laser. I'm just doing the one setting it has which is probably very limiting. 30 minutes per day with a two day break. Let me know if you think there's a better protocol or if I'm frying my ears. Thanks for your help.
@FERNANDO GIL It's just got one setting but I believe it's very close to to Dr Wilden's Lux Spa laser.
The specs on the back say 2 x 40 mW / 660 nm
The specs on the back say 2 x 40 mW / 660 nm
Coleoptere
Member
You might try a build up. First day 5 minutes, then 10, etc. After my first session with 5 Watt LED at 620Nm and 808Nm for half an hour I had a kind of pain in one ear. I really thought I blew my hearing forever. After two weeks it was gone. After that I did a build up to 30 minutes a day which worked fine.
You had a strong reaction, wich is good, better than not having nothing. With time that will calm down and then you can go up with time. So I sugest you stop till it calma down again, or low the time. But your ears are just reacting to the treatment. Hang in there.
- Nov 25, 2015
- 1,705
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Large caliber rifles&machine guns, +30 years of loud clubs
40mw is very low - too low especially for the less penetrating visible light wave which we know is stopped by even a few mm of skin not the mention the thick bones where the cochlea is cast in
Not sure how much you payed for this but this is a scam - try getting a higher powered LED
@Bobby B Well, apparently that may already be too strong for me. This laser is also backed by Dr Wilden as his name appears on the instruction manual and it's sold by the Lumomed Clinic, are you saying his lasers are scams? That's pretty harsh, maybe weaker, yes. But at least they have been in use for some time under Dr Wilden's supervision. Getting a random high powered laser that not many have used for this purpose is highly experimental and makes me nervous to be honest. Is there a lower priced "better" one you can recommend should I not see any results after a couple months?
Coleoptere
Member
For the most part I do agree with @Bobby B on his preference for LED's though I think everybody should take his/her own route through LLLT and if I´m not mistaken also @Bobby B started with a Lucky Laser and/or a kind of Lizzy device. 40Mw is more than Wilden's SPA which is 30Mw. I do not know how Laser can be compared to LED's. Would be interesting to read some science for that.
- Nov 25, 2015
- 1,705
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Large caliber rifles&machine guns, +30 years of loud clubs
I started with the lucky laser from China and it has up to 900 mw of power on 808nm which is more than you need given the very narrow probe and resulting beam .
I mostly did up to 500mw for 10 minutes
I think that for laser you would need at least 500mw to even penetrate the thicker bones but that's my opinion based on the usage
It's a very good and powerful device solidly built no question but not cheap .
Cost 1600 usd
The device lumomed sells for clinics is 5w I think which is 100 more powerful than their home device which does not have to be effective but is required to be safe enough so you cannot mess up hence the low power
I mostly did up to 500mw for 10 minutes
I think that for laser you would need at least 500mw to even penetrate the thicker bones but that's my opinion based on the usage
It's a very good and powerful device solidly built no question but not cheap .
Cost 1600 usd
The device lumomed sells for clinics is 5w I think which is 100 more powerful than their home device which does not have to be effective but is required to be safe enough so you cannot mess up hence the low power
- Nov 25, 2015
- 1,705
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Large caliber rifles&machine guns, +30 years of loud clubs
@Cal18
Not sure how you convinced yourself that light therapy will work for you though - if your T is stress or depression related why not trying to fix the underlying cause first ?
LT only works - when it works at all - to improve a physical injury to the inner ear such as noise trauma or ear infection etc..
Not sure how you convinced yourself that light therapy will work for you though - if your T is stress or depression related why not trying to fix the underlying cause first ?
LT only works - when it works at all - to improve a physical injury to the inner ear such as noise trauma or ear infection etc..
- Nov 25, 2015
- 1,705
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Large caliber rifles&machine guns, +30 years of loud clubs
This is an issue with LT - the success rate is low because so many people use it for the wrong causes ..
My ENT told me once he sees a lot of patient with T and obvious hearing dips in the audiogram..
but these people have in fact perfect ears and stress related T which masks some hearing at their T frequency ..
Nothing that LT could solve for sure but the good news is that it's not permanent and cureable by solving the stress issues
My ENT told me once he sees a lot of patient with T and obvious hearing dips in the audiogram..
but these people have in fact perfect ears and stress related T which masks some hearing at their T frequency ..
Nothing that LT could solve for sure but the good news is that it's not permanent and cureable by solving the stress issues
It's hilarious how much BS you can spit out of your mouth, no offense man.
Have you heard about hidden hearing loss or high freq hearing loss.
MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE TINNITUS DON'T HAVE PROBLEMS WITH AUDIOGRAMS AND THEIR TINNITUS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STRESS!
and... it's hilarious that you care what is being said on a trash-talking public forum................................
- Nov 25, 2015
- 1,705
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Large caliber rifles&machine guns, +30 years of loud clubs
@Bobby B At this point, I have no idea what the cause of my T is, I thought I did at first but it has become very obvious that something structural is going on within my ears. I have H, frequent fluctuations of blocked hearing, pressure, thumping, clicking, ear pain and violent T and occasional mild dizziness. I can't simply fix the depression because my reaction was caused by antidepressant which is why I'm in a tough spot and things like 5HTP are very activating on my nervous system.
I also have mid level hearing loss which I know was there before the T started. There's the theory that hearing loss + stress = T (I think many of us on here have seen this video ).
So it's quite plausible that yes, even though there is such thing as stress induced T, it can still arise from hearing loss - even though I'm hoping this is not the case as I agree, the depression cause is easier to fix, I think...
I by no means am expecting a miracle from LLLT nor will I bash the technology if it doesn't work for me but I'm willing to try everything from supplements, to TMJ treatment, to LLLT.
I also have mid level hearing loss which I know was there before the T started. There's the theory that hearing loss + stress = T (I think many of us on here have seen this video ).
So it's quite plausible that yes, even though there is such thing as stress induced T, it can still arise from hearing loss - even though I'm hoping this is not the case as I agree, the depression cause is easier to fix, I think...
I by no means am expecting a miracle from LLLT nor will I bash the technology if it doesn't work for me but I'm willing to try everything from supplements, to TMJ treatment, to LLLT.
@Cal18 I sympathise with you, I have ALL the symptoms that you described in your post and so I know how debilitating it can be. For me, my T & H was caused by an acoustic trauma (i wrote about it in another post). I also have hearing loss. Like you, I'm trying all kinds of things to try to help matters. Good luck to you
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