Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Long-Lasting Everyday Home-Practiced Experiences

[StoneInFocus]

@Hottopic29, I am using the Konftec emLas-520ABCB.

I have used it a couple of times now, 30 minutes each session.

A bit scared of using it now since it appeared to give me some slight burning feeling last time I used it.

The 90-day trial period ends in a couple of weeks. Not really sure what to do with it since we paid around 200 euros on import taxes.

 

[Hottopic29]

@StoneInFocus, it's going to create heat. It's like a light in a shade. It does say it has a temperature rating of 50℃. Maybe use it less. It looks pricey. I can't afford to even try it.

 

[Bennl]

Hi @Bennl, anything to report? I've been on the solutions-search treadmill for the past few weeks on behalf of a friend (whose first language is not English) who developed hyperacusis symptoms about two months ago.

I feel like I've read everything that there is to read on the topic, but am no nearer to any kind of an answer. My friend lives in a small Eastern European country and has had a terrible time finding anyone who has ever heard of the condition, or has any idea how to deal with it (for example, it's been a fruitless task to find anyone offering TRT). My friend has tried supplementation, dietary changes, and so forth, but is getting worse not better.

So far, the only option with any sort of promise appears to be Silverstein's surgery, but the costs involved are vastly out of reach. At least a laser option might be attainable. But the evidence for the efficacy of this method of treatment appears to be dubious at best. Yet the more personal testimony I gather about peoples' experiences of using it, the better.

So far I've had maybe some results. Hard to tell. But it does seem less loud when I wake up the next day for a while (I do the treatment before I sleep).

I tried the 660 mm and the 808 mm. I feel 808 mm is better, but they got a frequency hearing loss chart for which laser is most suitable. Mine is at 2 kHz and 4 kHz so 808 mm was best but I started with the 660 mm. Honestly wish I did HBOT treatment for double the money I spent on the lasers, but it's no use now, I think my onset was too long ago. I mean you can try. We are all desperate here and you'll regret maybe not having tried it if you don't, like I do with HBOT.

 

[Taw]

@Bennl, we all have our regrets, i tried HBOT but the pressure was too much for my freshly damaged ears, I got intense pain after it.

 

[Travis Henry]

Do not do LLLT to your ears. It'll make things worse.

 

[JPGL]

Do not do LLLT to your ears. It'll make things worse.

Why?

 

[Travis Henry]

Why?

I feel it spiked my already really bothersome tinnitus, made it worse and gave me hyperacusis.

 

[Travis Henry]

https://www.lzr7.com/laser-controllers/zx2-next-generation-class-4-laser-from-lzr7/

Freaking quack chiropractor doctor put this pen in my ears and heated it up and now I have reactive tinnitus. That or a dog barking and playing guitar did it this last weekend. Either way if your situation isn't catastrophic tinnitus level, i.e. you can mask it and it doesn't react to or compete with other noises and you don't have hyperacusis, I'd not try LLLT. Just let your ears hell naturally or with supplements and avoid all drugs if you can. I feel that's the best option.

 

[10Kcd]

Hi all, after reading carefully through this thread and doing a bunch of my own research, I've purchased the emLas-520BCB and will document a 10-day treatment here.

For context, I'm 3 months beyond an acoustic trauma that left me with hyperacusis (that has receded a lot - I've been referring to it as sound sensitivity with distortions at this point) and tinnitus (that has also diminished in volume, though has increased in frequency from about 10 kHz to 14 kHz).

I've got a solid mixture of hope and fear around LLLT, so I'm not going to do a full 30 minutes every night as recommended. Instead, my plan is to alternate one 10-minute session each evening between the 660 nm and the 808 nm headsets.

Day 1:
The box arrived yesterday - just under two weeks from ordering to delivery in the US. This evening, I opened the box and put everything together. Pretty simple and straightforward.

I was considering cutting 5 mm from the earbuds as has been mentioned many times in this thread, but decided against it because it seemed unnecessary - I checked the light emission (through the earbuds) against a piece of paper while wearing sunglasses, and it looked wide enough to be able to get down into my cochlea. Perhaps I'll experiment with the 5 mm cuts in the future.

For tonight's treatment, I used the 660 nm headset. I laid down on my bed and decided to hold the ear transmitters into place during the treatment by pressing my thumbs to the back of the metal piece that emits the laser. I did this because the transmitter on the left side didn't seem to fit 100% snugly into my ear. I'm not sure I'd want to do this for a full 30 minute session, as the transmitter became warm to the touch, but for 10 minutes, it was fine, and holding everything in place gave me peace of mind that the light was getting to where it's needed.

The only things I noticed during the treatment were that I could hear my tinnitus, and there was a mild warmth in my ears. After 10 minutes, the handset beeped, and it was over. Just like that. I disconnected the headset from the handset, and put everything back in the little storage case it all comes in.

Although my tinnitus has been louder than normal of late, it's come down to about a 4/10 over the past couple of days. That's how I would describe it before I started tonight's treatment, and that's where I perceive it now, after having completed it. So, I'm going to go with 4/10 as my baseline for this 10-day experiment.

I hope this documentation is helpful to someone, and am open to feedback, words of wisdom and encouragement!

 

[SoundB0und]

I hope this documentation is helpful to someone, and am open to feedback, words of wisdom and encouragement!

Hey @10Kcd, awesome to hear you're documenting the start of your laser journey here! I really hope it goes well. I presume you mean you'll be using the laser beyond the 10 days, provided all goes well. I'll comment on some stuff you mentioned, if you don't mind.

I'm still using my laser, the exact same model you have, after 4 and a half years, been using it pretty much nonstop, with 2-3 short breaks. At the very start I had weekends off from lasering, but soon switched to doing the treatment every day, just a shorter amount at a time.

For tonight's treatment, I used the 660 nm headset. I laid down on my bed and decided to hold the ear transmitters into place during the treatment by pressing my thumbs to the back of the metal piece that emits the laser.

I've tried lying down and it just didn't seem better than sitting. Maybe you are different, not sure, but I deem it unnecessary. What I have is one of those small hand mirrors that are usually used for applying makeup, it's more convenient for me than going and checking in a big mirror each time. Every time before I start treatment I look if the probes are at a decently correct angle and sometimes during treatment too because they can shift sometimes.

I also have self-adhesive wound tape on all of the probes in parts where they touch the ears to get the angle I want, so the angle is wrong very rarely for me and I know by feel how to insert the probes, kinda like earbuds with a twisting motion. I rarely get a wrong angle on a probe but it's good to have peace of mind.

If you're going to be in this for the long haul, I'd suggest trying to be careful with the device as much as you can. If you'll continue pressing on the metal parts of the probes, which isn't necessary in my opinion if you're sitting and will get tiresome fast (plus you can't do other stuff during the treatment like being on a smartphone online), then make sure you're never pressing on the white wire connection where the wire attaches to the probes, that is the the most fragile and vulnerable part of the device.

I had probes break starting out years ago and had to send them back quick so they'd still be under warranty, luckily Konftec provided new ones for free. Mine broke because when I was inserting the probes with the twisting motion, sometimes I'd touch the white parts where the wire attaches to the probes, so I suggest to everyone to be careful inserting the probes to not to do that and always grab the metal part. I've been doing that for years and have had no issues. I always use the hand strap too, it seems the controller would not do well in a fall and, to be honest, the entire unit seems like it's quite fragile.

One good advice I got from somebody was, that you can experiment around with your treatment and see and feel it out, what is best for you. At first I did exactly what Konftec suggested, 30 minutes for the 808 nm 90 mW laser and 30 minutes for the 660 nm with 50 mW probes, and it took me some time to figure out I was doing too much for me personally with the 808 nm one because it's almost twice as powerful. The time I did the other probes was about right. When the healing process starts, you need to probably protect even more than usually from too loud sounds for a while. If you start to heal, you'll be able to tolerate more and more again.

That is all I can think of right now. Good luck!

 

[Forever hopeful]

Hey @10Kcd, awesome to hear you're documenting the start of your laser journey here! I really hope it goes well. I presume you mean you'll be using the laser beyond the 10 days, provided all goes well. I'll comment on some stuff you mentioned, if you don't mind.

I'm still using my laser, the exact same model you have, after 4 and a half years, been using it pretty much nonstop, with 2-3 short breaks. At the very start I had weekends off from lasering, but soon switched to doing the treatment every day, just a shorter amount at a time.

I've tried lying down and it just didn't seem better than sitting. Maybe you are different, not sure, but I deem it unnecessary. What I have is one of those small hand mirrors that are usually used for applying makeup, it's more convenient for me than going and checking in a big mirror each time. Every time before I start treatment I look if the probes are at a decently correct angle and sometimes during treatment too because they can shift sometimes.

I also have self-adhesive wound tape on all of the probes in parts where they touch the ears to get the angle I want, so the angle is wrong very rarely for me and I know by feel how to insert the probes, kinda like earbuds with a twisting motion. I rarely get a wrong angle on a probe but it's good to have peace of mind.

If you're going to be in this for the long haul, I'd suggest trying to be careful with the device as much as you can. If you'll continue pressing on the metal parts of the probes, which isn't necessary in my opinion if you're sitting and will get tiresome fast (plus you can't do other stuff during the treatment like being on a smartphone online), then make sure you're never pressing on the white wire connection where the wire attaches to the probes, that is the the most fragile and vulnerable part of the device.

I had probes break starting out years ago and had to send them back quick so they'd still be under warranty, luckily Konftec provided new ones for free. Mine broke because when I was inserting the probes with the twisting motion, sometimes I'd touch the white parts where the wire attaches to the probes, so I suggest to everyone to be careful inserting the probes to not to do that and always grab the metal part. I've been doing that for years and have had no issues. I always use the hand strap too, it seems the controller would not do well in a fall and, to be honest, the entire unit seems like it's quite fragile.

One good advice I got from somebody was, that you can experiment around with your treatment and see and feel it out, what is best for you. At first I did exactly what Konftec suggested, 30 minutes for the 808 nm 90 mW laser and 30 minutes for the 660 nm with 50 mW probes, and it took me some time to figure out I was doing too much for me personally with the 808 nm one because it's almost twice as powerful. The time I did the other probes was about right. When the healing process starts, you need to probably protect even more than usually from too loud sounds for a while. If you start to heal, you'll be able to tolerate more and more again.

That is all I can think of right now. Good luck!

You have been using this for a while. Has it worked? Is your tinnitus gone?

 

[SoundB0und]

You have been using this for a while. Has it worked? Is your tinnitus gone?

The answer to the first question is: yes, it has definitely worked. The answer to the second is: no, the tinnitus is still there. I think with how bad my case was, wishing for complete silence is kinda asking for too much. I was so bad off that I got permanent spikes from the shower, high doses of sleep meds would not make me be able to sleep, sometimes for days. I could not tolerate music at any volume nor read a book.

Now I go months without wearing any hearing protection. I have earmuffs close by when out and about just in case a firetruck comes by or something similar, but in regular situations I don't need to wear them. My big goal was to be able to tolerate car rides on the highway, and I'm there now, even if the car is on the older and louder side.

Why I can say with high certainty that it has worked is because, as far as I'm aware, I'm the only person here who had the same amount of damage to both ears and did laser only on one ear or at least much more on one ear, by accident of course. The ear that got less of the laser still happens to be much worse.

In addition to that, it can be deduced that time is of the essence with the laser, because if you count the total months I've done the laser (around 52 vs. 47), they're not that different, but the difference in tinnitus is 3 or 4 times or so, that is because the now good ear got the proper dose of the laser much sooner (I would presume the bad ear got some of the laser but a weak amount of light).

The good ear is not really silent either. I had tinnitus for years before my massive spike. I started the laser after that spike. I would presume the good ear is on the level it was before my massive spike, but I can't be sure. The tinnitus switches ears still to this day, but no matter what ear it's in, it doesn't interfere with my life nor bother me.

Right now I'm not even doing laser to heal, I'm doing it to preserve what I do have. It's very hard to say when improvements are this gradual, but tinnitus wise I probably have not improved in a year or more. Hyperacusis wise I am able to tolerate more and the reactivity is better than a year ago. I'm still really careful and don't do dumb stuff.

Read my success story for more detailed information on everything I tried plus the link to why I had the accident and so on.

 

[10Kcd]

The answer to the first question is: yes, it has definitely worked. The answer to the second is: no, the tinnitus is still there. I think with how bad my case was, wishing for complete silence is kinda asking for too much. I was so bad off that I got permanent spikes from the shower, high doses of sleep meds would not make me be able to sleep, sometimes for days. I could not tolerate music at any volume nor read a book.

Now I go months without wearing any hearing protection. I have earmuffs close by when out and about just in case a firetruck comes by or something similar, but in regular situations I don't need to wear them. My big goal was to be able to tolerate car rides on the highway, and I'm there now, even if the car is on the older and louder side.

Why I can say with high certainty that it has worked is because, as far as I'm aware, I'm the only person here who had the same amount of damage to both ears and did laser only on one ear or at least much more on one ear, by accident of course. The ear that got less of the laser still happens to be much worse.

In addition to that, it can be deduced that time is of the essence with the laser, because if you count the total months I've done the laser (around 52 vs. 47), they're not that different, but the difference in tinnitus is 3 or 4 times or so, that is because the now good ear got the proper dose of the laser much sooner (I would presume the bad ear got some of the laser but a weak amount of light).

The good ear is not really silent either. I had tinnitus for years before my massive spike. I started the laser after that spike. I would presume the good ear is on the level it was before my massive spike, but I can't be sure. The tinnitus switches ears still to this day, but no matter what ear it's in, it doesn't interfere with my life nor bother me.

Right now I'm not even doing laser to heal, I'm doing it to preserve what I do have. It's very hard to say when improvements are this gradual, but tinnitus wise I probably have not improved in a year or more. Hyperacusis wise I am able to tolerate more and the reactivity is better than a year ago. I'm still really careful and don't do dumb stuff.

Read my success story for more detailed information on everything I tried plus the link to why I had the accident and so on.

Hey @SoundB0und - thank you so much for your words of encouragement and advice. Your posts were definitely some of the ones that inspired me to move forward with LLLT, and it feels good to have your support!

I'll post my Day 2 documentation below, but the one big question I have is around how to know that the earbuds are properly placed. I appreciated some of your specific recommendations (the mirror, the wound tape, not worrying about lying down), and I'm still unclear whether I should be worried about getting a perfect seal (the sensation I get when I first put in foam earplugs) as opposed to just getting things placed securely (the sensation of earplugs being in, but with a sliver of space so that a tiny bit of more direct sound comes in).

When you are using the laser, are your ears totally plugged and sealed, or not? I'm not sure I'd be able to get a 100% seal without pushing on the transmitters.

 

[10Kcd]

Hi all, continuing here with my ten initial days of documenting LLLT.

Day 2:
For tonight's treatment, I used the 808 nm headset. I had a short delay, as when I started my 10 minutes, the controller immediately turned off. It took me a couple of minutes before I realized that the battery was probably almost dead. Even though I read in the instructions to charge the battery, I didn't actually do that for my first treatment, and since I used the 660nm headset last night, it all just worked. Tonight, I had to take out the charging apparatus and plug it in in order to start my treatment.

Like last night, my tinnitus was about a 4/10 before I started the treatment. The main difference I noticed with the 808 nm headset is that it got much warmer. Like last night, I chose to push on the back of the transmitters (not near the white wire connectors, @SoundB0und - don't worry

After 10 minutes, I concluded my treatment, put the headset away, and left everything else out to charge for the night. My tinnitus was still at about a 4/10, though now, 30 minutes later, it feels slightly louder - more like a 5/10. It's possible I'm just imagining a difference, and need 24-hour treatment cycles alternating between the 660 nm and the 808 nm headsets to formulate any meaningful conclusions.

That's all for tonight!

 

[SoundB0und]

When you are using the laser, are your ears totally plugged and sealed, or not? I'm not sure I'd be able to get a 100% seal without pushing on the transmitters.

No, they're not perfectly sealed like foam earplugs. I personally don't see how the seal could be important. What's most important to me is the angle of the probes relative to the head, mine are at a slight angle pointing downwards, but not too much downwards, otherwise the light would shoot up too much and miss the pea sized cochlea.

I had a situation where the opening of my ear canal had been stretched out in the left ear and probe was loose, thus the angle was too much, otherwise I don't think this was even possible for me to happen, as it never did with the right ear. It's light treatment, you're not trying to warm up your inner ear or keep air from coming out or anything like that, you're sending photons with a certain wavelength to your cochlea. It's more like aiming a (cold) beam of light. Having a seal in your ear canal which is outside the eardrum anyways won't do anything useful in terms of light penetration or treatment outcomes in my opinion.

A quick word on charging: you don't have to charge overnight, mine takes definitely less than 3 hours for full charge. I charge once a week every day on the same day, after treatment, so I don't forget it. Also, Konftec says it's fine to use the laser while charging the battery.

Thanks for the kind words. You might get a spike initially, I did for sure.

All the best,
Sound

 

[10Kcd]

No, they're not perfectly sealed like foam earplugs. I personally don't see how the seal could be important. What's most important to me is the angle of the probes relative to the head, mine are at a slight angle pointing downwards, but not too much downwards, otherwise the light would shoot up too much and miss the pea sized cochlea.

I had a situation where the opening of my ear canal had been stretched out in the left ear and probe was loose, thus the angle was too much, otherwise I don't think this was even possible for me to happen, as it never did with the right ear. It's light treatment, you're not trying to warm up your inner ear or keep air from coming out or anything like that, you're sending photons with a certain wavelength to your cochlea. It's more like aiming a (cold) beam of light. Having a seal in your ear canal which is outside the eardrum anyways won't do anything useful in terms of light penetration or treatment outcomes in my opinion.

A quick word on charging: you don't have to charge overnight, mine takes definitely less than 3 hours for full charge. I charge once a week every day on the same day, after treatment, so I don't forget it. Also, Konftec says it's fine to use the laser while charging the battery.

Thanks for the kind words. You might get a spike initially, I did for sure.

All the best,
Sound

Thank you again, @SoundB0und - I really appreciate your input. You'll see in my post below that I stopped worrying so much about the seal of the earbud, and I hear you about the angle being the more important factor.

Thanks for the charging advice, too. I thought I read in the instruction manual that the handset took 12 hours to charge, but it was definitely charged well before that, as I don't sleep 12 hours a night. I'll keep in mind your recommendation to charge at the same time each week.

I've read enough on this thread to know that I might get an initial spike, so I'm bracing for that, though so far it's gone in the opposite direction. But I know that can change at any time.

Anyway, thank you for your support and encouragement.

 

[10Kcd]

Hi all, checking in for my daily LLLT documentation update.

Day 3:
I need to start this post by saying that my tinnitus was very low today. Like a 2/10 for good portions of the day. It may be a complete coincidence, or it may be a placebo effect, but either way, I'm noting it here because last night was the first night I used the 808nm headset (the more powerful of the two I own). I even went to an outdoor work event with a loudspeaker playing this afternoon, and I didn't experience any adverse effects. Of course, I used earplugs and didn't get too close to the loudspeaker; nevertheless, it was noteworthy.

Feeling buoyed by these positive developments, and knowing that I would switch back to the 660 nm headset tonight, I upped my treatment time from 10 to 12 minutes. I also chose not to hold the back of the transmitters to my ears as I have done the past two nights, opting instead to simply push them in snugly and check to see that they were appropriately angled.

The treatment itself was pretty unnoteworthy: mild warmth; low, even tinnitus; time passing. I finished and disconnected the laser wires, and similar to last night, am now perceiving a very slight increase in the volume of my tinnitus - 3/10, higher than where it was right before treatment, but overall lower than it's been any of the past couple of days before today.

Tomorrow, I'll be back to the 808 nm headset, and will decide based on how I'm feeling whether to up the time, though I'm more cautious with the stronger laser. Until then, I wish you all silence

 

[10Kcd]

Hi again, and welcome to my nightly LLLT update.

Day 4:
Today was one of the best days I've had since my acoustic trauma back in June. My tinnitus was running between 1/10 and 2/10, with some moments when I forgot about it entirely. I'm really curious to know what part of that is a placebo effect from the LLLT. All I can say is that I hope some of it is true healing, even though it seems impossible that the LLLT could be so effective so quickly.

For my treatment, I returned to the more powerful 808 nm headset, and stuck with a 10-minute time limit. Like last night, I wasn't worried about the earbuds making a seal in my ears, and simply stuck them as far into my ears as they'd go and checked the angle before pressing start.

I can see that this process is becoming normal for me, and for that reason, there's not a lot to report. There was warmth in my ears and the time passed. As has been the case the past three nights, there is a slight spike in my tinnitus now, but very minimal - about a 3/10, up from 2/10 at the outset.

The most noteworthy development after four nights is simply that my tinnitus baseline volume seems to be ratcheting down. I'm hopeful that this is actually because something about the LLLT is healing my inner ear, and not coincidence or my own imagination (both very possible).

I also listened to some music through my analog receiver/speaker setup this afternoon, and it felt ok to do so. It wasn't loud, but at what I would describe as a moderate, room-level volume. There's not enough evidence to suggest that my sound sensitivity has improved because of the LLLT, and I can definitely hear the typical rattling distortion when, for example, I speak loudly. Still, just having a chance to listen to music and be relaxed about it felt good.

There you have it. I'll be back again tomorrow.

 

[10Kcd]

Hi all, continuing with my 10 days of documenting LLLT.

Day 5:
Today was my first bad tinnitus day since starting treatment. Where yesterday the volume got so low I was able to totally forget about it for stretches of the day, today I was between 5/10 and 6/10. I even spent some time in the success stories section of this site just to cheer myself up.

As for the treatment itself, I returned to using the 660 nm headset, and decided to bump up the time to 15 minutes. It was uneventful as usual, with warmth in my ears, and the slightly too loud beep once the time was up (I don't understand why they make the ending beep as loud as they do).

I'd rate my tinnitus to have started at about a 6/10 as tonight's treatment commenced, and that's where it is right now, 15 or so minutes after finishing it.

Since the consensus has been so strong that tinnitus often spikes at certain points in LLLT, I'm not really concerned about this spike. It is annoying though, and perhaps makes my daily documenting seem a bit more realistic - until now, it's been almost unreasonably smooth sailing.

This marks the halfway point in my documentation. I'll be back tomorrow.

 

[10Kcd]

Hi all, more documentation of my first 10 days of LLLT.

Day 6:
The spike in my tinnitus that started yesterday continued today. Somewhere between 5/10 and 6/10 all day. I'm still not stressing out about it as I was expecting a spike, but I don't love it.

For tonight's treatment, I went back to the 808 nm headset. I also decided to bump up the time on this more powerful headset to 12 minutes. Nothing unusual to report about the treatment itself, just the typical warmth in the ears. As I began, my tinnitus was a 5/10. Now, about 15 minutes after treatment, it's seems similar, possibly a little higher - it might be a 6/10, though I may be losing a bit of objectivity in my self-ratings by documenting every night. Regardless, the tinnitus is noticeable right now.

I'll document two more nights with the 660 nm headset and two more nights with the 808 nm headset to round out my 10 days. One of the initial observations I'm developing about the LLLT is that I haven't really noticed much of a difference in the impact of the two headsets. I recognize that it may simply be that I haven't used either enough to make an informed assessment.

Hoping something I've written thus far is helpful to at least someone out there!

 

[10Kcd]

Hi all, nightly LLLT update here.

Day 7:
My tinnitus spike that began over the weekend is persisting, hovering between 5/10 and 6/10. Today I considered pausing my treatment, but decided that since I'm far from feeling catastrophic about the increase in tinnitus volume, I'd proceed with today's treatment and take the next three days on a case-by-case basis. I also knew I would be using the less powerful 660 nm headset.

As has been the case every evening, there were no issues during the treatment. There was warmth in my ears, and that's about it. I increased the time to 16 minutes, which is one minute more than the last time I used the 660 nm headset.

I started and ended treatment at about a 5/10 in terms of tinnitus volume, and while I'm a bit more aware of it right now, I'm not confident that the volume has actually increased.

Something I have been noticing since yesterday is that the quality of my sound sensitivity may be shifting slightly. A specific example is that, when I am in conversation with someone with a loud voice (and particularly in a smaller space with a lot of acoustic reverberation), I'm hearing my tinnitus blend with a high pitched "swish" overtone - surely in the 14 kHz area that my tinnitus currently plays at. The "swish" sound seems different from what I would describe as more of a ring overtone I'd been hearing in similar acoustic situations previously. I have no idea whether this represents a healing direction, as both overtones are annoying and distressing, but it is a development.

As I get closer to the end of my 10 days of documenting this LLLT experience, I find myself looking forward to taking a break from it to see how things shift. Clearly the treatment is stirring things up in my auditory system, and I'm hoping that the shifts I'm perceiving are related to some sort of healing.

 

[Jupiterman]

Lasers supply photons of light which transform to heat energy on the surface they impact on.

I can't see how heating up the ear apparatus will aid healing. If anything I'd think it would cause irritation to the very delicate apparatus.

Just my opinion, nothing more.

 

[10Kcd]

I can't see how heating up the ear apparatus will aid healing. If anything I'd think it would cause irritation to the very delicate apparatus.

Hi @Jupiterman - I'm with you in being unsure whether there's any benefit to the laser treatment. There are scientific articles that members have posted throughout the many pages of this thread, some of which demonstrate positive correlations between lasers and cellular regeneration. There are also people who see lasers as nothing more than a placebo (at best) and harmful (at worst).

Being early enough into my auditory issues, and curious enough to try out this laser treatment, I've been posting my initial experiences as a daily log, mainly because it's something I wished someone had done as I was considering whether or not to step into this. I'm thinking of it as a type of "guinea pig journal" that I hope is helpful to others who are curious about LLLT.

By the way, I see that you've been dealing with auditory issues for just a couple months longer than I have... how are you doing?

 

[Jupiterman]

Hi @Jupiterman - I'm with you in being unsure whether there's any benefit to the laser treatment. There are scientific articles that members have posted throughout the many pages of this thread, some of which demonstrate positive correlations between lasers and cellular regeneration. There are also people who see lasers as nothing more than a placebo (at best) and harmful (at worst).

Being early enough into my auditory issues, and curious enough to try out this laser treatment, I've been posting my initial experiences as a daily log, mainly because it's something I wished someone had done as I was considering whether or not to step into this. I'm thinking of it as a type of "guinea pig journal" that I hope is helpful to others who are curious about LLLT.

By the way, I see that you've been dealing with auditory issues for just a couple months longer than I have... how are you doing?

@10Kcd, it's commendable that you are doing this medical experiment/research with yourself as the subject.

As for how I am doing, please feel free to click on my postings.

 

[10Kcd]

Hi all, continuing with my LLLT documentation.

Day 8:
I'm still generally experiencing a spike in my tinnitus, though it hasn't really shifted up or down much since the weekend.

Tonight's treatment consisted of 11 minutes with the 808 nm by headset (one more minute than I spent the last time I used this more powerful of the two headsets). Same as usual: warmth in the ear, nothing else noticeable, either positive or negative.

I don't have a whole lot more to share, other than to say that I've perceived the volume of my tinnitus at about the same from the start of treatment through writing this post - 5/10. Perhaps I'm habituating to the treatment, maybe I'm plateauing in whatever is shifting, or maybe it's all in my head. At this point, I'm mostly looking forward to taking a break to see if/how things shift.

 

[10Kcd]

Hi all, I'm now closing in on the end of 10 days of LLLT documentation.

Day 9:
My tinnitus seemed to dip in volume today after having been spiked at between 5/10 and 6/1o since the weekend. It was probably around a 4/10 for a lot of the day, and there were some moments when I wasn't thinking about it - something I haven't experienced since last Saturday.

For my treatment, I returned to the 660 nm headset, and bumped up the time to 18 minutes. Interestingly, I didn't feel as much warmth as I've been feeling in my ears this evening. Typically, I feel it less with the 660 nm headset than with the 808 nm headset, but even relative to the other nights with the 660 nm headset, it felt less warm.

I perceived my tinnitus at about 4/10 to start, and now, a few minutes after the treatment, it's closer to 5/10, but pretty similar. I think I am often more aware of my tinnitus after completing the treatments because I'm trying to determine if it's shifted in volume, so it's hard to say for sure whether it actually spikes with LLLT, but it does seem to do so most nights.

Other than that, my bad ear has generally become more sensitive to high frequency speech sounds, particularly "s" sounds. I'll be curious to see if/how that shifts once I take a break from nightly laser sessions after tomorrow night's treatment.

I'll be back tomorrow for one more journal post.

 

[10Kcd]

Hi all, this is my final of 10 nights of documenting my experience with at-home LLLT.

Day 10:
Today, like yesterday, my tinnitus was a bit less intrusive, 3/10 to 4/10, generally speaking. When I began this evening's treatment, it was at about a 4/10.

I used the 808 nm headset, and I set the timer for 12 minutes. This is the longest I have used the more powerful of the two headsets I've been using. The treatment itself was uneventful. I enjoyed the additional warmth in the ears that the 808 nm headset provides.

Several minutes on the other side of the treatment, my tinnitus is about the same as when I began, 4/10. I'm going to take a break of at least a week now, both to let my ears rest and to see if/how things shift in my auditory system.

Looking back on these 10 days, the main things I'm taking away are the following:

1. I didn't notice a huge difference between how I felt during or after using the 660 nm vs the 880 nm headsets.
2. I'm not sure there was any discernible difference the treatment made in my perceived tinnitus volume - there were spikes and reductions, but I finished about where I began.
3. I do feel that the new "swish" overtone I'm hearing with certain frequencies of speech (especially "s" sounds) is correlated to the laser treatment. I don't know if it's a good or a bad (or a neutral) sign - it is an annoying development, but I'm hopeful it represents some movement in the direction of healing.

Overall, I'd say the jury is still out on whether LLLT is something I want to continue to use. I'm also aware that I was relatively conservative in terms of how much I was willing to subject my ear to (for reference, the manufacturer recommends 30 minutes a night - I only did between 8-18).

If there's anyone out there considering trying at-home LLLT, I'm happy to respond to any questions you may have, though I am by no means an expert. I sincerely hope that my documentation has been of some use to some of you, and I'll likely post an update a few days from now to report on any changes.

In the meantime, thanks for reading, and I wish you silence!

 

[10Kcd]

Hi all, it's been almost a week since I posted an update on how things have shifted for me since my initial 10 days of self-administered LLLT with the emLas-520BCB - I've got you in mind here, @CW Dragon

First, the good news: it seems like the "swish" overtone that had emerged after beginning treatment has chilled out. In other words, my left (impacted) ear seems less reactive to the spoken "s" sound, and others in that frequency range. I'm still using earplugs when I go into a lot of noise (which I've minimized in general), though there have been some moderate-level (70-ish dB) situations I've entered without earplugs and without problems.

The less good news is that my tinnitus is holding strong at 14 kHz and what I perceive to be about a 4/10 or 5/10 in terms of volume. For reference, in the Tone Match tab of the Tinnitus Play app on my iPhone, if I play 14000 Hz and slide the volume up about a third of the way, the sound I hear holding the phone up to my right (good) ear is almost identical to what I hear in my left ear.

I'm continuing to take NAC, and have been rotating through a bunch of other supplements, but am not really convinced that anything outside of NAC is actually helping (though nothing seems to be hurting).

I'm leaning into the idea of starting another course of LLLT treatment, probably for a week or so. I'm not super-convinced that it helps, and I also don't have evidence that it's hurting, though I do wonder whether simply leaving my ear alone is the better option.

For those who have experience with self-administered LLLT - especially within the first few months of an acoustic trauma - I'm curious to know how you made choices about when to treat, and when not to, as you were getting started.

I'm also (even more) curious to know if anyone has a good way to document and determine with anything that feels close to "accuracy" whether and/or how much the LLLT helps in reducing your tinnitus and sound sensitivity.

These questions feel like the next frontier, and frankly, knowing how to answer them would help me know if this is a treatment I want to continue pursuing.

 

[SoundB0und]

For those who have experience with self-administered LLLT - especially within the first few months of an acoustic trauma - I'm curious to know how you made choices about when to treat, and when not to, as you were getting started.

I started LLLT within 3 months of my trauma. I just went all in; the idea of taking longer breaks didn't make much sense to me. I don't think I had any discernible improvements for at least a month, real gains started coming 3 months in if I remember correctly. I healed the most within the 1st year and had decent gains in the 2nd year as well, 3rd year marginal gains. In my opinion measuring your improvement in weeks or even days is not really useful.

Provided you do this correctly, it's also really difficult to say how much you'd have improved on your own vs using the laser in addition to just normal healing, or rather, it's impossible, because you took another turn on the road and can't get back to "the other road" ever. In my case the improvements have been so slow that I'm almost completely unable to gauge how much I've improved based on just the volume of the tinnitus. What I do is I try to remember how I behaved or had to behave in order to not induce a spike, because they were so much easier to get in the past.

Those changes in how careful I was were really slow. I can't really even remember what this super loud tinnitus was like. Visualizing it I just remember my emotional reaction, not the blaring tinnitus with 5 or more tones (which merged within the first 2 years and became one tone). Habituation in my opinion works both ways, you habituate to whatever tinnitus you have (to a degree of course and if it's really loud perhaps it's impossible for a lot of people, not trying to preach habituation here), it becomes the new norm and then you're used to it.

If you've been reading around the forums you've probably came across this link already, but just in case you haven't, here it is again. The website is down because the person who made it died of causes unrelated to tinnitus, so a website that archives other websites has to be used, that's why the link looks like that. This is the best documentation of anybody making of their tinnitus laser journey that I've read, quite detailed.

 

[10Kcd]

I started LLLT within 3 months of my trauma. I just went all in; the idea of taking longer breaks didn't make much sense to me. I don't think I had any discernible improvements for at least a month, real gains started coming 3 months in if I remember correctly. I healed the most within the 1st year and had decent gains in the 2nd year as well, 3rd year marginal gains. In my opinion measuring your improvement in weeks or even days is not really useful.

Provided you do this correctly, it's also really difficult to say how much you'd have improved on your own vs using the laser in addition to just normal healing, or rather, it's impossible, because you took another turn on the road and can't get back to "the other road" ever. In my case the improvements have been so slow that I'm almost completely unable to gauge how much I've improved based on just the volume of the tinnitus. What I do is I try to remember how I behaved or had to behave in order to not induce a spike, because they were so much easier to get in the past.

Those changes in how careful I was were really slow. I can't really even remember what this super loud tinnitus was like. Visualizing it I just remember my emotional reaction, not the blaring tinnitus with 5 or more tones (which merged within the first 2 years and became one tone). Habituation in my opinion works both ways, you habituate to whatever tinnitus you have (to a degree of course and if it's really loud perhaps it's impossible for a lot of people, not trying to preach habituation here), it becomes the new norm and then you're used to it.

If you've been reading around the forums you've probably came across this link already, but just in case you haven't, here it is again. The website is down because the person who made it died of causes unrelated to tinnitus, so a website that archives other websites has to be used, that's why the link looks like that. This is the best documentation of anybody making of their tinnitus laser journey that I've read, quite detailed.

Thank you for the info, @SoundB0und - as always, I truly appreciate your wisdom and perspective.

I'm aware that I have been quite conservative in my initial approach to LLLT (and, if I'm honest, quite scared of it). I'm holding the idea that, to really see whether this is going to work for me, I'm going to have to go beyond my comfort zone. That's not to say that I need to be reckless, but I will need to commit to longer treatment sessions over a much longer period of time.

After reading your reply, and especially after reading Hansi Cross's documentation (which I had skimmed before but appreciated reading much more thoroughly, and with the lens of someone who has now actually dipped my toes in the LLLT water), I am feeling interested in diving in more fully, and am going to allow myself to sit with the question of whether or not I'm actually ready.

I'll post an update when I have something meaningful to share.