Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Long-Lasting Everyday Home-Practiced Experiences

I send you my warmest regards and wish you well.
Hi @Anima - I really appreciate your kind, supportive words. I also value your perspective, and will consider your advice.

I am currently in a discussion with the company about whether or not my money back window has closed, so it may be that the fates help me make this decision.

At any rate, I hear your encouragement to forge on with LLLT, and will provide some further updates as I have them. I am treating myself with the 808nm headset as I type this :)
 
I really think that for anyone that wants to do LLLT, an at-home laser is the best way to go. Especially if one knows how to build one themselves.

Perhaps I may not have sufficient knowledge in electronics (I had bad luck with relevant college courses, despite making A's), but I don't understand how laser devices that are hosted by a doctor would be superior to one at home.

The frequency of lights flashing per second?

If people can get portable lasers, what makes the others so special?

The lasers don't even seem that difficult to make. Costly, yes, but probably a lot better than buying them already made, for those that have 3D printers and electronics kits.
 
Hi everyone,

I suffered from ototoxicity-induced tinnitus and hyperacusis from Wellbutrin (Bupropion) and am considering low-level laser treatment to help me with my symptoms. Do any of you have any tips or concerns for me?
 
Hi everyone,

I suffered from ototoxicity-induced tinnitus and hyperacusis from Wellbutrin (Bupropion) and am considering low-level laser treatment to help me with my symptoms. Do any of you have any tips or concerns for me?
Your mileage may vary. If you want to experiment, Red Light Man (google it) makes very cheap lamps with multiple wavelengths.

DO NOT pay tons of money to one of the hucksters like Wilden or the dude in Sarasota. The lamp is like $100 as opposed to their $1000s.

I am not affiliated. I did purchase one. Part of me thinks it helped. Another part of me thinks it's crazy to think this works. I still superstitiously use it whenever I get a spike from being sick.
 
Your mileage may vary. If you want to experiment, Red Light Man (google it) makes very cheap lamps with multiple wavelengths.

DO NOT pay tons of money to one of the hucksters like Wilden or the dude in Sarasota. The lamp is like $100 as opposed to their $1000s.

I am not affiliated. I did purchase one. Part of me thinks it helped. Another part of me thinks it's crazy to think this works. I still superstitiously use it whenever I get a spike from being sick.
Hey @Tom Cnyc, your success story is one of those that gives me hope!

I just got the Red Light Man Mini Combo. What was your protocol, i.e. how many minutes and how often would you use it? I just tried it for 1-2 minutes and it seems to spike my tinnitus a bit, so I will tread carefully here.
 
Hey @Tom Cnyc, your success story is one of those that gives me hope!

I just got the Red Light Man Mini Combo. What was your protocol, i.e. how many minutes and how often would you use it? I just tried it for 1-2 minutes and it seems to spike my tinnitus a bit, so I will tread carefully here.
I used the Red Light Man before work for like 5-10 minutes per ear, and again at night. Typically I'd just do it when my wife was getting ready to leave and I was sitting there watching TV. I'd just lean it up against my ear. No need for safety glasses or anything but don't be a moron and stare at the thing. I used to twist it a bit to hit each wavelength.

Honestly, I think it does SOMETHING. I can't say it regrows stereocilia because I didn't cut open my inner ear. But that said, if you use it for a while, you'll notice that you may feel some slight "fatigue" deep in the temple area. You noted a spike, so you may agree here. I don't see this as a bad thing. Nor did Hansi Cross' blog.

I hypothesize that a lot of what it does is lower inflammation in the surrounding muscle tissue which gives some relief to the nerves. I'd notice that, after using it for a few days, commonly my tinnitus would be a bit louder but more hissy than ringing. To me, that's easier to deal with. Eventually that would quiet down to better than before.

This may be totally psychosomatic. I don't know. If I didn't have tinnitus and I saw someone advocating for the use of this thing, I would tease them mercilessly - it legitimately sounds crazy. But I did notice that my ears got better at a more rapid rate when I started using it.

Right now I have a very mild "electric noise" in my head. It's honestly barely noticeable. It was also there long before the date that I marked here as my tinnitus "starting". To me, intrusive tinnitus sounds like WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. A hiss or this electric noise is fine. And the wheeeeeee is gone for me the vast majority of the year.
 
Hi, I have had tinnitus and hyperacusis for 5 weeks following sound trauma. I have been reading this thread and it's not clear whether LLLT is actually useful. Given the price of the treatment in Baden Baden (up to 5,000 EUR), I am not sure I will do it yet.

I wanted to ask if there is research that indicates how soon LLLT should be started after the onset of tinnitus and hyperacusis to be most effective?
 
Hi, I have had tinnitus and hyperacusis for 5 weeks following sound trauma. I have been reading this thread and it's not clear whether LLLT is actually useful. Given the price of the treatment in Baden Baden (up to 5,000 EUR), I am not sure I will do it yet.

I wanted to ask if there is research that indicates how soon LLLT should be started after the onset of tinnitus and hyperacusis to be most effective?
Given the recent onset of your tinnitus, I think it is better to focus on getting Prednisolone/Pentoxifylline, either intravenously, e.g., at Dr. med. Wallesch in Rhauderfehn, Germany, or orally, starting with 3 days at 60 mg, and then tapering down by 10 mg each day, together with hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

Although I'm an advocate of LLLT, it is in my opinion much less effective. You can buy a low cost system at Konftec. I also use a Konftec 660 nm LLLT device.

All the best!
Jan
 
Wait for Dr. Shore's bimodal stimulation device (Auricle).

I did LLLT at Dr. Wilden in the past - it was just wishy washy hocus pocus. No effect at all and many others have had the same experience.

His son is continuing to offer the "treatment" in Germany and makes money from desperate sufferers. Dr. Wilden himself moved to Ibiza many years ago.

My strong advice: keep your money and don't waste your money on the "light treatment".
 
Given the recent onset of your tinnitus, I think it is better to focus on getting Prednisolone/Pentoxifylline, either intravenously, e.g., at Dr. med. Wallesch in Rhauderfehn, Germany, or orally, starting with 3 days at 60 mg, and then tapering down by 10 mg each day, together with hyperbaric oxygen therapy.
Bedankt @Jan64. I already had 2 rounds of oral Prednisolone (180 mg and 500 mg in total) + 250 mg injection of Methylprednisolone and it didn't seem to help. Do you know if there are indications of how often one should try it?
 
Bedankt @Jan64. I already had 2 rounds of oral Prednisolone (180 mg and 500 mg in total) + 250 mg injection of Methylprednisolone and it didn't seem to help. Do you know if there are indications of how often one should try it?
I feel your pain. It is possible that Prednisolone does not work. I do not know why that is. I do not know how often you should try taking Prednisolone. There is a delay between taking it and the reduction of the tinnitus loudness, so be patient...

All the best!
Jan
 
I see these devices popping up everywhere, a few on Amazon and many more on eBay, often for less than $20.

I wonder what the specifications are (probably LED rather than LASER), and if anyone on Tinnitus Talk has tried them?

Luhak Infrapeace Red Light Earplugs

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Does anyone know what wattage/frequency lasers are used at Dr. Wilden's facility and the Lumomed facilities? I'm looking to see how these compare to the lasers one can get for home use. Looks like years ago there might have been a big difference but less so now?

EDIT:

I heard back from Lumomed in Germany. They said their laser is "25 000 mW and 75 000 mW". That is wildly higher than the home lasers! Is that even safe?
 
I just bought the Konftec home laser. I've read some posts talking about the correct angle of the earplugs.

What is the correct angle? Should they point straight into the head?

Or a little forward, back, up or down?
 
I just bought the Konftec home laser. I've read some posts talking about the correct angle of the earplugs.

What is the correct angle? Should they point straight into the head?

Or a little forward, back, up or down?
Congratulations! I also own a Konftec (660 nm).

Just point the probe straight into the head so the light will reach the cochlea. I would start with 30 minutes twice a day.

I hope it will help!

Kind regards,
Jan
 
I'm a new member here. I've been lurking for a few months. I came down with loud tinnitus, strong hyperacusis, ear fullness, and pressure in the latter part of January 2024. I've been taking it easy, meaning no loud sound exposure; however, I've not been overprotective with my ears and go to the grocery store, doctor's appointments, and Pilates with my wife. All three symptoms have gotten better since early February, but I am intrigued by the LLLT products.

I have mild to mild-moderate hearing loss from 4 kHz to 8 kHz, and then my hearing goes back up. I believe they say it's "notched." My hearing issues are related to loud noise exposure. I got COVID-19 in the latter part of January 2024, when these three symptoms started.

After reading through a few LLLT threads, I ordered a Konftec emLas-520BC with the red 660 & IR 808 set. It sat on my counter for over a week, but I just recently decided to give it a try. I'm following a similar approach to @SoundB0und by starting off slow, so here's my progress so far.

TREATMENT 1:
4 minutes using the red 660 laser only.
  • TINNITUS: Very soon after the session, I noticed my tinnitus tone going to a higher pitch than normal—a little louder but higher pitch than my normal lower tone.
  • HYPERACUSIS: Not much of a noticeable difference, good or bad.
  • EAR FULLNESS/PRESSURE: I noticed an improvement in lower ear fullness/pressure after this first session in the evening.
DAY OFF:
No treatment.

TREATMENT 2:
4 minutes using the red 660 laser only.
  • TINNITUS: The tinnitus tone is still at a higher pitch than normal. It is a little louder but with a higher pitch than my normal lower tone.
  • HYPERACUSIS: Hyperacusis came back today. Although moderate, this is a little concerning.
  • EAR FULLNESS/PRESSURE: I noticed an immediate improvement in lower ear fullness/pressure, and it felt great.
DAY OFF:
No treatment.

TREATMENT 3:
4 minutes using the red 660 laser only.
  • TINNITUS: The tinnitus tone is still at a higher pitch than normal, and it became louder after treatment 3, which is not welcome.
  • HYPERACUSIS: Hyperacusis is moderate, but I haven't heard it like this since late March, so again, it's a little concerning.
  • EAR FULLNESS/PRESSURE: More improvement in lower ear fullness/pressure is a relief!
DAY OFF:
No treatment.

I decided not to conduct Treatment 4 as I have some concerns about the volume of the tinnitus being still higher than before. Hyperacusis is present but not nearly as bad as back in February-March. Ear fullness/pressure is gone, which feels really good. I'll take a few more days off and reevaluate.

It's now been four days off since the last of 3x 4-minute 660 red laser treatments, with one day off between treatments:
  • TINNITUS: The bad news is that the volume of my tinnitus is still louder than before I started, so I'm hoping it recedes to what it was before the first laser treatment. It's still a higher pitch than the old normal lower tone. Not freaking out but concerned.
  • HYPERACUSIS: It's about the same, maybe slightly better, since I started LLLT, so it's not getting any worse.
  • EAR FULLNESS/PRESSURE: Today, the ear pressure/fullness came back, and it's not comfortable. Just 3x 4-minute treatments of 660 red (no IR) really reduced the pressure, fullness, and inflammation in my ears, which was a big relief.
I'm in a quandary now. I would like to reduce the ear pressure/fullness, but I'm concerned about the higher tinnitus volume and the uptick in hyperacusis. I don't want to exacerbate those two symptoms any further.

Should I stop now altogether or wait another week/month and try just a 1-2 minute session, as my ears seem sensitive to LLLT?

I'm really stumped, as I've heard multiple users say their tinnitus always spiked, especially in the beginning, and then receded back down, but again, I'm concerned.

@10Kcd, @Jan64, @SoundB0und, @Anima, I would appreciate any replies!
 
@10Kcd, @Jan64, @SoundB0und, @Anima, I would appreciate any replies!
Hey there.

Cool that you're trying out the laser. I've not posted on this forum for a while, but I've continued lasering all these years. In early June, it'll be six years. I've been consistent; when I accidentally forget a day(because tinnitus is really not on my mind at all anymore), I always do more the following days, but I gradually decrease the time over five days to reach back the baseline time I always laser. This happens about once a month. What helps is I try to meditate every day, and lasering is part of my meditation. No harm from all this extended time of lasering, as far as I can tell. According to my calculations, I've clocked in over 1000 hours now.

Now for your post. I realize now, after all these years, that this whole "trying to cure my own ailments" topic is controversial and very difficult for people. When you mess up, there's no one else to blame but yourself; everyone will say what you did was stupid, and so on. The casualties from modern medicine are not looked at the same way. Every time you start something new, it's Russian roulette, that applies to medications by doctor and anything you try on your initiation. Nowadays, I feel very hesitant to advise people in the form of "do as I did, and it'll work."

I had so many advantages in recovering from my horrible tinnitus; I was willing, capable, and able to live like a hermit; I had the time, energy, and will to be really careful and yet still willing to go on the roulette wheel, have a very overactive mind; am generally not anxious; I've learned not to push myself too far when things seem like they're not working out; I start slow and experiment and most of all, I take try full responsibility for what I do. I was just lucky to have these predispositions and lucky that things actually worked out; the biggest part was just luck on the roulette wheel, really.

You can increase your odds and increase them by a lot, but things can still go wrong no matter what. It's not only about effort but the right kind of effort, too. And do realize that not doing anything is doing something; plenty of people get worse without taking action, and it's not looked in the same light as those who got worse actually taking action; the latter seems much worse to people, for whatever reason. So... I have a hard time recommending my methods to most people, not because I no longer think they up your chances of recovery, but because I don't think there are many who could execute them correctly; there are some here who I definitely see who could do it, though.

As far as doing the laser, I started very slow but only did that for a couple or a few days; I amped up to the routine recommended by Konftec really fast (which I now realize was very suboptimal for me, but I think it was better than going really slow, now I don't really follow any strict routine because I have a feel for whatever I need to do). And the spikes, it's hard to talk about this because somebody will just take it the wrong way and ruin themselves with the laser, perhaps, but I really wish my tinnitus would spike from the laser nowadays; it pretty much doesn't at all at this point.

I gauged it as a sign of healing, but when it did spike, it was a very different kind of spike than the spikes when I damaged myself from loud sounds. Very different doesn't sound like much for regular people; it just sounds to them like their tinnitus spiked. The laser spikes actually felt like healing; they felt good in a way, but on some level, they were really hard to explain again. The injury spikes just came with ear fullness(which the laser spikes never did have for me) and this kinda burning sensation, and you feel you lost hearing acuity and so on.

Now, somebody will just try to build a "structure" around what I said, and well, my ears are not burning and have no fullness, so I'll keep blasting the laser, which is incorrect for many reasons. I'm not trying to seem ambiguous here for no reason. It's literally a skill more than a knowledge base I have. Would the world's best surfer explaining to you what he does really improve your surfing? Not really; in fact, if you just went by what he does and got on the board for the first time, you would start overthinking, trying to emulate him, and actually get worse; this is what I feel like talking about these things.

It seems like I got off on a bit of a tangent, but I think it's important that people don't try to strictly and blindly follow what I do or did; we are just hugely different in many ways. If you wanted to do what I did, you'd not really need me to tell you the times of the laser and what to do when it was all experimentation and with my body, so it's not going to translate to your predispositions and your body because we're that different.

I am not trying to discourage anyone here, either. I do believe a recovery is possible, but it takes a lot of work, and one needs to really think about what he or she is willing to sacrifice to recover. I see a lot of posts on the forum like "Got blasted with loud sound on the city, how can I be so unlucky?" or along these lines. That's really lacking awareness to me and people who are in this kind of mindset should probably not even try the laser. Not that I never go to the city or anything, I do, and always with muffs nearby, knowing the need and the benefits of going out outweigh the costs and that I could get ruined. So you did not get unlucky; you just got hit with a, in the short term, statistical improbability, not an impossibility.

So, to end, to me, and this is just to me, it feels like you're either healing somewhat from the very short laser sessions you've done or that maybe you're not protecting as well while doing the laser as you should(you mentioned going out). I believe that when you get into healing mode, it's paramount to protect well from sounds that are too loud, even better than prior to starting to heal with the laser. You also mentioned higher pitch, which was a classical sign of healing to me, one which I don't get anymore after all these years. I feel that the hyperacusis has improved, which is a very good sign, and that means you should heal more with the laser if you protect adequately. Your ears are sensitive to LLLT; I wish mine were at this point :) One thing I still believe is the longer you wait and slip out of the acute phase, the worse your chances of recovery with the laser are. I've shared the story of what happened to my left ear; it's still around 4x worse than the right to this day. It's a long game, this lasering, and about six months in, I just learned to mostly ignore everything short term because I realized it's helping me.

At any rate, I wish you good luck with whatever you choose to do going forward. There are risks, nothing is 100% safe when you go rouge in treatment and recovery, but I think you can still make good progress if you're careful and persistent enough.
 
Thanks for the reply. It's much appreciated!
I had so many advantages in recovering from my horrible tinnitus; I was willing, capable, and able to live like a hermit; I had the time, energy, and will to be really careful and yet still willing to go on the roulette wheel
I'm fortunate where I live and work from home is on a small acreage, not inside a traditional neighborhood, so I have more control over the noise around me except for the weekly lawn crew that shows up, but I stay inside.
And do realize that not doing anything is doing something; plenty of people get worse without taking action, and it's not looked in the same light as those who got worse actually taking action; the latter seems much worse to people, for whatever reason.
Yes, I seem to beat myself up like I am now if I try something new and it doesn't work out, as I feel guilty for potentially making this condition worse.
It seems like I got off on a bit of a tangent, but I think it's important that people don't try to strictly and blindly follow what I do or did; we are just hugely different in many ways.
True. I'm not attempting to follow your recipe exactly; I'm just looking for general feedback and how the process went for you and others using LLLT.
So, to end, to me, and this is just to me, it feels like you're either healing somewhat from the very short laser sessions you've done or that maybe you're not protecting as well while doing the laser as you should(you mentioned going out).
It makes sense. Back in February, I believed I was overprotective, so I loosened up a bit and thought it actually helped my progress. I have only been to a few restaurants so far with my wife, where we sit outside at off-peak hours and always have my protection with me. The grocery store nearby is quiet, and there are not many loud young kids there. Our weekly Pilates class is very quiet. The instructor talks as he teaches with no yelling or turning up the music and no weights clanking around.
I believe that when you get into healing mode, it's paramount to protect well from sounds that are too loud, even better than prior to starting to heal with the laser.
I do understand your point, though. It sounds like once you start LLLT, I need to be more protective of my ears, as they are more sensitive now while being treated.
feel that the hyperacusis has improved, which is a very good sign, and that means you should heal more with the laser if you protect adequately.
I didn't write this correctly in my original post, so let me clarify regarding the hyperacusis while doing LLLT. After the second and third LLLT sessions, the hyperacusis flared up each time, and now I'm hearing sharp sounds again, which is concerning. I didn't realize how much the hyperacusis has improved since February until now after the LLLT treatment. Hyperacusis is back; although not severe, it is more noticeable than before I started LLLT.

Is this normal?

Regarding protection, while in the beginning of LLLT sessions, I'm going to hold off any future laser treatments until Monday, May 13th. I'm busy with potentially noisy environments this coming week, so I'll get through this coming week and plan on 5-13-24 to start LLLT again. I'm praying the louder tinnitus and hyperacusis calm down by then. If not, I may not proceed with future treatments as I'm very concerned about making my situation worse permanently.

When you first started LLLT, how long did your tinnitus spikes last before they subsided? Days, weeks, months?

Did your hyperacusis spike initially, and if so, how long did it take to return to normal? Days, weeks, months?

I have never had a spirit of fear, but since January, when all this hit me, I've been somewhat concerned about making it worse permanently, but as you said, that comes with the territory.

Thanks, @SoundB0und!
 
True. I'm not attempting to follow your recipe exactly; I'm just looking for general feedback and how the process went for you and others using LLLT.
Yes, that's good. I spoke more to everybody about how I see things, not only you specifically, but that's alright :) From what I read, it doesn't sound like you're putting yourself in unnecessary danger.
I do understand your point, though. It sounds like once you start LLLT, I need to be more protective of my ears, as they are more sensitive now while being treated.
Yes, I see it like that.
After the second and third LLLT sessions, the hyperacusis flared up each time, and now I'm hearing sharp sounds again, which is concerning. I didn't realize how much the hyperacusis has improved since February until now after the LLLT treatment. Hyperacusis is back; although not severe, it is more noticeable than before I started LLLT.
That's unfortunate. I'm trying to think back six years ago to when I started, and to be honest; I don't think I had any massive or even discernible spike in hyperacusis from the laser. Then again, I was in the biggest hermit mode, which might have been hard to notice. Even during the summer, I was in my room, windows closed, door closed, curtains drawn (it was slightly less sauna-like that way), so I had no accidents (I still had a couple). It must've been at least 50 degrees Celsius in that room, lol. But my situation was also that at my worst moments, after having tinnitus for one month, I could not read a 5-word sentence at the loudest moments and got damage to my auditory system from just the shower when not protecting my ears. For me, extreme measures were necessary.

It's pain hyperacusis, right? Not just things sounding louder, or do you hear "more"? And yeah, I used sound enrichment at night, which I still do and have done since the beginning of my journey. In my first years, it always temporarily spiked me, even when I chose the least spiking sound, and it never masked tinnitus for me, but I figured I needed it to make my auditory system get used to sound, so I've never been one of those who say stay in silence. It's a balancing act for me between how risky you have to be and, at the same time, having sound around you still. But yes, again, it doesn't sound like you should damage your ears with those things you mentioned.
Regarding protection, while in the beginning of LLLT sessions, I'm going to hold off any future laser treatments until Monday, May 13th. I'm busy with potentially noisy environments this coming week, so I'll get through this coming week and plan on 5-13-24 to start LLLT again. I'm praying the louder tinnitus and hyperacusis calm down by then. If not, I may not proceed with future treatments as I'm very concerned about making my situation worse permanently.
I think it's a fine idea.
When you first started LLLT, how long did your tinnitus spikes last before they subsided? Days, weeks, months?
I believe the tinnitus spiked massively only during the session when I started and then shortly after the session; it settled to a higher level than before, but not massively so. I think it's a good idea to start with the red light. I find it much more calming, and the 808 nm probes were and are more stimulating; that's what it feels like. I don't know any other way to describe it.

As far as how long the spike lasted, a month in, I was already feeling some improvement; I'd say I even got somewhat of a placebo effect in the very beginning, which I think I posted about as well, but a month into lasering and four months since getting tinnitus, I felt like things were going in the right direction, not that I had improved a lot or anything. Over the years, my six tones merged gradually one by one into a single tone, tinnitus got lower and lower, etc., and hyperacusis as well but not as easily, and reactivity of the tinnitus to sounds was the hardest to improve.

I hope you'll be fine, and it goes down from now on, so you'll know what's up. Good luck.
 
Even during the summer, I was in my room, windows closed, door closed, curtains drawn (it was slightly less sauna-like that way), so I had no accidents (I still had a couple). It must've been at least 50 degrees Celsius in that room, lol.
Wow, that's 120 degrees Fahrenheit. I would not have been able to handle that.
It's pain hyperacusis, right? Not just things sounding louder, or do you hear "more"?
You know I'm not 100% sure if it's pain hyperacusis or not? When things get really loud right away, let's say, for instance, a bunch of people laughing, my tinnitus gets very loud very quickly, followed by some distortions at the upper range. Those sounds also sound very sharp, so there is some immediate pain from the sharpness, but that subsides as soon as the sound level goes back down. I don't get any facial paralysis, burning, or stabbing pains. Now I can get ear fullness/pressure sometimes afterward, but not every time.

Since my last LLLT treatment on 4/29/24, the pressure/ear fullness has returned, and hyperacusis has gotten noticeably better. However, the tinnitus pitch is still higher or thinner, but the volume is still louder, which is concerning. The tinnitus volume will drop a little overnight but seems to increase some the next day, which is higher than before the three LLLT sessions.

This last week was very busy for me, and I was exposed to a lot of noise for two days. The first day, I had to move one of my kids out of their dormitory room, which wasn't too bad, but there was more noise than I was used to, so I wore concert-type earplugs.

The next day, we had a graduation dinner at a busy restaurant for my other kid, followed by the actual graduation ceremony, which included several thousand people. I wore foam earplugs and Bose noise-canceling headphones for the ceremony. I initially stayed inside for 30 minutes, went outside for over an hour, and then returned. After that, we had more family time and pictures back inside to watch my daughter graduate, which was still noisy outside.

By the time I got home that night, my ears had never rang so loud; it was not good. Two days later, thankfully, the ringing dropped back down to the same level as before the busy two days. That said, they are still louder than before the LLLT treatments.

With all of that said, I'm still unsure as to whether I should continue again with LLLT due to the increased level of ringing, which has not gone back down to pre-treatment levels. Should I wait for the level to drop first or continue treatment now?

I could try a one-minute session every other day to be extra cautious, but again, I'm still worried the level of ringing may continue to rise and never drop back down. This last week has been the most sound exposure I've had since this started in January, so that obviously could be a factor in why the ringing has not dropped back down to pre-treatment levels.

Any thoughts, @SoundB0und?
 
When things get really loud right away, let's say, for instance, a bunch of people laughing, my tinnitus gets very loud very quickly, followed by some distortions at the upper range. Those sounds also sound very sharp, so there is some immediate pain from the sharpness, but that subsides as soon as the sound level goes back down
I never had something exactly like this, but it could be a sign of healing, but who knows? With how little you're doing the laser, like less than 1/10th a day of what I've been doing for years, and you've been sporadic as well, it's hard to imagine it'd have such a strong effect in terms of healing. 1-2, or even 3 minutes is nothing, in my opinion. It's hard to see how it'd hit you this hard. I consider myself a good responder and sensitive. I understand it's uncharted territory for you, and pushing through the spikes can be daunting. Do you have fleeting tinnitus? Do you mean more than you did before the laser? I started getting fleeting tinnitus with strong-as-hell ear resets after cranking the laser duration.

And there's no natural way to know what you'd be without the laser vs. what you get from it, like a crossroads; there's no undoing this and choosing either of the other options once it's done, if you know what I mean. In a way, it was easier for me to push through. I was already at, if not suicide levels then. I knew I could not hold onto the damage level I did have because I was not going to be forever able to avoid accidents and spikes that were permanent; I had plenty in the first months. Because of this, I opted to blast through everything in terms of spikes since if I hurt myself and it got much worse, I would not be "double dead"; I'd still be just dead. That is not your situation, and you have much more to lose.

What I do remember about my first 5 minutes after just doing the 1 minute the day prior (I think that's how it went, but it was ages ago) was like my ears feeling, "this is good, keep doing this." It felt like an excellent calming thing for me, it's hard to describe, but it felt like a healing ointment together with how you feel when you go out into the sun after being inside for days, only inside my ears; that's probably the best way to describe it. It felt like it was reducing inflammation and calming down the ears. Now I usually don't get that same feeling at all, but sometimes, if I miss the laser for over a day and get exposed to lots of noise, I get a very small hint of the same thing.

So yeah, I don't have some great advice, especially if you're spiking this hard. It's up to you if you want to gamble more on this, sacrifice social gatherings, and be extra careful to heal.
 
I can't thank you enough @SoundB0und for taking the time to respond; it helps.
it's hard to imagine it'd have such a strong effect in terms of healing. 1-2, or even 3 minutes is nothing, in my opinion. It's hard to see how it'd hit you this hard.
I'm as surprised as you are that just a few 4-minute sessions could cause such a big reaction. I knew my ears were sensitive after a hearing aid trial in March. Those hearing aids blew up my ears badly, making everything so loud — horrible! Based on that, I decided to go slowly and cautiously with LLLT but still reacted. I'm glad I didn't go to a local clinic where they use the 2500 mW lasers.

After only three 4-minute sessions, there was a noticeable spike, and as far as the tinnitus is concerned, it has stayed about the same high volume since my last LLLT session two weeks ago. The volume of tinnitus is louder with a higher pitch, so more natural sounds mask it during the day, but you can hear the loudness at night when it's quiet, which is bothersome.

The hyperacusis was getting better pre-LLLT but now has an increase in sound sensitivity, although since my last LLLT session, it's slowly improving with less sound sensitivity.

The ear pressure/fullness completely disappeared during LLLT treatments but is now back.
Do you have fleeting tinnitus? Do you mean more than you did before the laser?
If by fleeting tinnitus you mean it comes and goes temporarily, then I have had that a few times over the last weeks: one ear gets louder for a few seconds, then gets really silent, and then goes back to normal within 5 seconds.
And there's no natural way to know what you'd be without the laser vs. what you get from it, like a crossroads; there's no undoing this and choosing either of the other options once it's done, if you know what I mean.
Yes, I agree, and that's making it challenging for me to decide whether to continue with LLLT or stop now. My concern is that I'd like to get the tinnitus volume back down to the pre-treatment levels, so I'm not sure if LLLT will do that or stop completely and pray it goes down on its own.
I was already at, if not suicide levels then. I knew I could not hold onto the damage level I did have because I was not going to be forever able to avoid accidents and spikes that were permanent; I had plenty in the first months.
I haven't been suicidal, but I've been very down and just hoping I can enjoy a vacation with my family again one day in the future. That's all I want at this point. Right now, I can't do much & when I do, my ears have been reacting negatively. My anxiety levels have come down, but I'm depressed a lot as it's turned my world upside down.

This last week, I've had more sound exposure than the previous two months combined. The two days of moving my daughter, followed by a big family dinner at a restaurant and a graduation ceremony, were loud for me. I've had family at my house for another three days and they haven't been crazy loud but more than I'm used to. The last two days, I've had a lot of inner ear pain. It was very tough. All of this has not helped my cause. In hindsight, I probably should have waited to start LLLT until after this past week as there was so much noise exposure, but who knows for sure?
It felt like it was reducing inflammation and calming down the ears.
I felt the same way, significantly reducing the inflammation part. That's the one area I saw immediate improvement, which was great. Since I stopped LLLT, the ear pressure/inflammation has come back.

If you were to stop doing LLLT yourself, do you feel as though you would revert back to pre-LLLT treatment levels? So you're committed for life to LLLT, just like a diabetic always has to have daily insulin available?

Thanks again!
 
If you were to stop doing LLLT yourself, do you feel as though you would revert back to pre-LLLT treatment levels? So you're committed for life to LLLT, just like a diabetic always has to have daily insulin available?
No, I don't think I would revert back to pre-treatment levels or that my tinnitus would significantly spike from stopping the treatment. I can't say for sure, but that's how it feels. It's such a minor task for me to do it for an average of less than 20 minutes a day while I meditate. I do feel that the tinnitus isn't decreasing much, if at all, from the laser treatment, but that was the same thing I posted three years ago after having used the laser for three years. Since then, it feels like I've made some small progress in this regard. Even now, I believe it makes my ears more resilient to spikes, which makes the laser treatment totally worth it for me. I'm not sure how long I'll keep doing it, but I have no compelling reason to stop right now.
 
Has anyone tried using a suitable wavelength LED light engine/module with natural dispersion or a lens to form the desired beam? These can get rather thermally warm.
 
I think if there is an autoimmune activity in the ear, LLLT could potentially cause damage and a setback of months or years because it stimulates the immune system, as stated on the Konftec website.
I see these devices popping up everywhere, a few on Amazon and many more on eBay, often for less than $20.

I wonder what the specifications are (probably LED rather than LASER), and if anyone on Tinnitus Talk has tried them?

Luhak Infrapeace Red Light Earplugs

View attachment 56132
I think this is 660 nm with 5 mW. A cheap option, and not entirely silly in my opinion. I mean, couldn't one theoretically just use it for longer to achieve the same effect, except have more control because it is a slower buildup?
 
Where can I buy a reliable 5 mW 660 nm LLLT?

I need to start with a low power before going up.

Konftec (50 mW)
Wilden (50 mW)
Tinnitool (100 mW)
 
5 mW is not very powerful but they are available at very good prices, around $25.

Here is one example (this one is 650 nm, not 660 nm, but that's pretty close):

Lisade Red Light Therapy Earplugs with Storage Box Relief Tinnitus Device for Sound Ears
I am worried those are not safe, but maybe they are; I don't know.

Are there any other reputable lasers, preferably models that have been used in clinical trials?

Tinnitool isn't selling the 5 mW version anymore.
 

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