I don't know what to make of this. Would this 56% response rate encourage or discourage them from further research on this therapy?
MicroTransponder: Latest News and Research
- Thread starter erik
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I don't know what to make of this. Would this 56% response rate encourage or discourage them from further research on this therapy?
Member- Aug 24, 2014
- 179
- Tinnitus Since
- 07/2009
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Loud Music and being dumb
I don't think so. In the article states that it's going under FDA review. 50% is better than any other study's I've read.
I believe there probably revising their method for a non-invasive way of stimulating the Vagis nerve.
I believe there probably revising their method for a non-invasive way of stimulating the Vagis nerve.
That is great news!!! and i think 50% is a great score. Especially since tinnitus can have so many different causes, i don't think that soon we will see one cure for all. So i think a 50% result is great. And if it can help 50% of users with tinnitus, that is HUGE! 
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
For me 50% is not great for a condition such as subjective tinnitus. The reseason being is that tinnitus sufferers are unreliable. If it was 80-90% I could be more positive.
Look at ACRN for example and some of their studies that suggests it helps 7:10 users, then look at uses in real life - the amount of people who claim it being a long lasting relief is minimal.
There is always the placebo effect and the unpredictability of tinnitus; some here mention there being good days and bad days with varying degrees of levels in loudness.
I'm not keeping my hopes up for the microtransponder, seems where there is money to made we are a gold mine whether it works or not.
Look at ACRN for example and some of their studies that suggests it helps 7:10 users, then look at uses in real life - the amount of people who claim it being a long lasting relief is minimal.
There is always the placebo effect and the unpredictability of tinnitus; some here mention there being good days and bad days with varying degrees of levels in loudness.
I'm not keeping my hopes up for the microtransponder, seems where there is money to made we are a gold mine whether it works or not.
- Aug 24, 2014
- 179
- Tinnitus Since
- 07/2009
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Loud Music and being dumb
Technology is advancing at an exploding rate. Electronic components are getting smaller and sophisticated each day. So I would think that Microtransponder would def look into a way to minimize the way their treatment to be safe and affordable, thus why we have clinical trials.
If they can improve upon their design, I would think that this would def help not just 50% of people but even more.
Yes I agree T suffers are unreliable, I am one of those to be honest. We all want some thing quick and easy solution but again T is a super complicated condition to treat and firmly believe many researchers and doctors are on the right path in discovering not just the single tonal types of T but the multitudes of ones that exist.
Not all treatments are a one all solution. Some will work for others while some will not, it's a ll trial and error, which is why I remember specifically when I signed up for the trials (or at least tried too) it specifically said that you had to have tonal T.(I have T and PT).
Plus you also have to think about one thing. The brain is always changing everyday which constitutes the changes I think.
How many people, who have completed an ACRN treatment (i.e. they have gone through at least 12 months of treatment), have you consulted with to state that "the amount of people who claim it being a long lasting relief is minimal."?
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
@carlover for one
Also spoke with a few others who claim they had tried it for months with no effect on tinnitus.
Also, the double blind study that was conducted in Nottingham showed 40% reduction in active group, and 41% reduction in placebo group according to somebody on the internet. Yet it was not published because of a 'deviation in the protocol'.
When money is involved, it's amazing what people will go to to sell you something.
Also spoke with a few others who claim they had tried it for months with no effect on tinnitus.
Also, the double blind study that was conducted in Nottingham showed 40% reduction in active group, and 41% reduction in placebo group according to somebody on the internet. Yet it was not published because of a 'deviation in the protocol'.
When money is involved, it's amazing what people will go to to sell you something.
Understand that what you have is not a statistically significant sample. A few people is not enough to come up with a meaningful statistical value, especially if the "few others" you are talking about tried it "for months", which can mean anything from 2 months and up, possibly 3 or 4, who knows. Patient compliance is very difficult to achieve for these types of therapies: I wouldn't be surprised if they gave up before the end of the treatment, especially if they felt it wasn't working.
The second part of it is that you are likely picking people who have not had success with it since they are - like @carlover - on this board. Perhaps you've run into people out in the street who were also ACRN patients for 12-18 months, but those people are really really hard to come by, so I doubt it. Those who've had success with the therapy (or any other therapy), are generally not here: I'm not sure where you'd run into them. That's simply a sample bias (a famous example of sample bias is this one (1936 Roosevelt election)).
Note that I'm not arguing that the treatment does work: I'm just saying that you don't have enough data, and of enough quality, to argue the opposite.
Don't believe all the things that "somebody on the internet" says. You can get the data yourself for free from reputable sources, and make up your mind after you read it yourself. Some key things to look at is who funded the study, the potential conflicts of interest, the rigor in the process (is it double blind? how many people? how were they selected?).
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
I'm very cynical with ANY form of treatment for T and with great reason. I've been subjected to a few scams offering relief and failed. All too keen to take my money though.
Even private audiology practices are trying to sell me £1000+ hearing aid with built in maskers (I only need the masker).
The tinnitus market is HUGE and there's no shortage of people willing to take advantage of that.
I certainly hope the microttansponder does help.
Nothing wrong with that.
This is unfortunately very common with ailments that are incurable, as you can easily leverage the state of despair in the patients. But there are 2 types of perceived scams: on one hand are the folks who are very well aware that they are selling snake oil, but there are also legit people who don't have a massive success rate. I'm not sure I'd call the latter scammers (hence the "perceived" word I used), in spite of their low success rate.
I think the T world is littered with both. We know T has many origins, and we also know (from clinical studies) that some things work for some people, but nothing works for everyone. Because T is so multi-faceted, it's not surprising that the success rates for treatments are low.
Yup. I'm one of their "customers" since they've sold me a hearing aid with masker too.
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
Greg I don't know of any treatment that will actually decrease the actual volume of tinnitus, I just know of therapies that help you habituate and a reduction in the anxiety associated with it. Do you know of anything that may help reduce the actual volume? I think mine is noise induced.
There's a few things that seem to actually reduce the volume for some people, but they are not guaranteed to work for you. Many studies track the actual volume through the treatment. Other studies focus more on the psychological aspect of it with the traditional T questionnaires.
Vagus nerve stimulation, rTMS, tDCS, DBS, etc... are all experimental but some of them do show statistically significant results on a subset of patients. Maybe you are lucky and it works for you, but you could also be unlucky and make things worse (there is no risk-free option in healthcare).
One approach would be to try them all, but of course it's not that practical because there's the issue of time (treatments are long, and you don't want to mix them), cost (some can be very expensive), availability, etc...
One thing that is fairly easy to start with is sound therapy. There's a few types of therapies (notch, windowed white noise, ACRN) that you could try at variable cost tiers. There are the traditional providers of such therapies if you go to T clinics, which offer you support/counseling/etc for a premium. If you are disciplined and a tiny bit tech savvy, you can find other providers that may be more convenient (i.e. over the internet) and for very reasonable costs. For example you can find "a la carte" purchases of sound therapies (windowed white noise, ACRN, notch, nature notch for sleep), or even listen to the free ACRN generator from GeneralFuzz here.
Good luck!
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
Where are you from Greg? Here in the U.K. There is a psychiatry centre in London that offers rTMS for tinnitus. Of course it's private and you have to pay. Do many places offer these treatments where you are from?
I don't know to be honest. I know there's a place a few miles from me, but I haven't done an exhaustive search. The facilities are usually advertised as treatments for depression (because FDA has approved rTMS for it in some cases), so that helps you cast a wide net, but then you need to figure out if they know anything about the protocols used for Tinnitus, which isn't obvious.
- Aug 24, 2014
- 179
- Tinnitus Since
- 07/2009
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Loud Music and being dumb
Seems like there is a clinical trial being done at UTD in Dallas, TX for VNS. I'm only 4 hours away. Anyone in TX can and should sign up.
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...=Tinnitus&cntry1=NA:US&state1=NA:US:TX&rank=1
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...=Tinnitus&cntry1=NA:US&state1=NA:US:TX&rank=1
Hmmmm. It looks like it is has nothing to do with curing Tinnitus though.
Investigating Accelerated Learning in Tinnitus Participants Implanted With Vagus Nerve Stimulation
Perhaps the 56% success rate of their last trial for the Vagus Nerve Stimulation isn't marketable so they are trying anything they can to salvage the product.
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
You're right, it has nothing to do with tinnitus. Is it the same guys behind the microtransponder though?
Edit: just saw its from Dallas so that would confirm my question. Bizzare, they've probably lost so much money after realizIng it doesn't work?!
Edit: just saw its from Dallas so that would confirm my question. Bizzare, they've probably lost so much money after realizIng it doesn't work?!
- Aug 24, 2014
- 179
- Tinnitus Since
- 07/2009
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Loud Music and being dumb
This may not have anything to do with curing Tinnitus but the person who is conducting the study is a Tinnitus researcher. I have emailed him and no response yet in relationship to this study, he maybe part of the team up in Dallas. I do believe that this study can further help with a better understanding of VNS implantation and how it can target the brain to "learn" or maybe "un-learn" Tinnitus. If I hear from him I will post it here.
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
- Dec 18, 2015
- 618
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced, loud rock concert
Do you guys know if there is any VNS treatment registered and available for patients (not necessarily Micro Transponder). I recently spotted a clinic in my country (Poland) which says they offer innovative tVNS treatment for Tinnitus as of 2017. I emailed them, no response yet and I could not find information about positive outcome of any clinical trials.
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
No. But I would wait until clinically established results come out and remember there is the signal timing device yet to come as well that may prove better efficacy. There's an rTMS clinic in the UK too, however until the evidence comes, I won't part with the cash. Try and hang on - if it works the results will follow.
- Dec 18, 2015
- 618
- 45
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced, loud rock concert
I will wait in this case. I tried so many treatments so far with no success that I lost hope for anything really efficient in the nearest future.
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
Very wise I think my friend. There is no shortage of 'miracle' treatments and there is a very strong demand for an effective treatment, it will prove to be followed by results we will not miss.
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
If it was successful, we would know, hence the need for robust trials proving its efficacy.
Fabrikat
Member
- May 1, 2017
- 416
- Tinnitus Since
- 1973
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Otosclerosis then volume then viral infection
There are non invasive tVNS machines on the market now. How one would use them and with what tones to achieve a result is the question.
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
Results of a pilot study (https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01962558) have been published in Scientific Reports: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-12178-w
I haven't had a chance to read the paper closely, but I have a few first thoughts: It appears to be better designed than many studies discussed here (e.g., randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, multiple standard outcome measures) though the sample size is small (expected for a pilot study). Both the treatment and control groups show improvement at 6 weeks, and the reduction for the treatment group is statistically significant while the reduction for the control group is not (table 2). However the between group difference is never statistically significant (tables 2 and 3). Thus, based on the result at 6 weeks, there doesn't seems to be a positive effect though the authors note the study isn't powered to look at efficacy. It's purpose is to test safety and to establish parameters for a larger study.
At 6 weeks, the participants were crossed over to the treatment and the treatment protocol could be adjusted to attempt to improve outcomes. With continued use, there are positive effects at 1 year though thanks to the crossover there isn't a treatment/control comparison.
As always, the results are quite heterogeneous, and they discuss some sub-group results.
Compliance was generally good. They seemed happy with the safety though 2 people (out of 30) had significant vocal cord issues (one apparently perhaps attributable to a surgeon new to VNS surgery); one resolved.
Finally, the FDA has approved a larger study: "The 120-subject pivotal study has been approved by the FDA to start enrollment." The goal of that study will be to look for efficacy.
I haven't had a chance to read the paper closely, but I have a few first thoughts: It appears to be better designed than many studies discussed here (e.g., randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, multiple standard outcome measures) though the sample size is small (expected for a pilot study). Both the treatment and control groups show improvement at 6 weeks, and the reduction for the treatment group is statistically significant while the reduction for the control group is not (table 2). However the between group difference is never statistically significant (tables 2 and 3). Thus, based on the result at 6 weeks, there doesn't seems to be a positive effect though the authors note the study isn't powered to look at efficacy. It's purpose is to test safety and to establish parameters for a larger study.
At 6 weeks, the participants were crossed over to the treatment and the treatment protocol could be adjusted to attempt to improve outcomes. With continued use, there are positive effects at 1 year though thanks to the crossover there isn't a treatment/control comparison.
As always, the results are quite heterogeneous, and they discuss some sub-group results.
Compliance was generally good. They seemed happy with the safety though 2 people (out of 30) had significant vocal cord issues (one apparently perhaps attributable to a surgeon new to VNS surgery); one resolved.
Finally, the FDA has approved a larger study: "The 120-subject pivotal study has been approved by the FDA to start enrollment." The goal of that study will be to look for efficacy.
Doctors restore Consciousness in Man Who Spent 15 Years in a Vegetative State
https://www.sciencealert.com/doctor...in-man-who-spent-15-years-in-vegetative-state
https://www.sciencealert.com/doctor...in-man-who-spent-15-years-in-vegetative-state
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