MRI Machines Really Need to Be Reworked — I Developed Tinnitus Immediately After the Scan

[anotherforumuser]

Days later, back from surgery. It had no effect on ear pain/occipital pain/visual symptoms. Ear pain is excruciating even when very little sound is around.

Tinnitus sounds went a bit confused and sometimes to head tinnitus, probably over inflammation and meds.

Ah... Trying to get a Doppler on carotids... Maybe a vitamins test.

I haven't seen many on this website with such an ultra-fast deterioration, this is rather extreme...

 

[Wrfortiscue]

So I have an MRI scheduled to rule out a neuroma. Should I request a CT instead?

I was going to use earplugs and earmuffs but it seems it doesn't provide enough protection.

Is the open MRI quieter?

 

[anotherforumuser]

So I have an MRI scheduled to rule out a neuroma. Should I request a CT instead?

I was going to use earplugs and earmuffs but it seems it doesn't provide enough protection.

Is the open MRI quieter?

I am not knowledgeable health-wise. The only thing 100% certain I can say on MRIs is the current technology includes dangerous decibel levels. My opinions on how to handle the need of an MRI are just all I can gather from the forums from people who endured that in the past, and what I'd do in your case, not those of a health professional.

- First consult with your doctor such alternative diagnosis paths - CTs also have issues. Regarding the risks of an MRI - not according to any scientific research but to anecdotal evidence on the forums - it may be higher for people with already weakened hearing, way more if noise based. Yet again, it must be consulted with your doctor, so you can get an informed choice on risks/benefits/alternatives - I'd personally explain him my real concern on MRIs even if he would not be too convinced on it. Maybe you'll get a clearer view if you speak with him -or maybe you did already... Then you'll need to decide.

- If you happen to carry out an MRI eventually, more than an "open" model, which doesn't look too popular, many forum users have instead recommended, even on this thread, that you ought to use double protection (earmuffs solely made of plastic above earplugs) and preferably look for certain "Pianissimo" Toshiba models and talk with the technician once there.

I've seen your threads and you seem like a nice guy, Wrfortiscue, I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Wrfortiscue]

I am not knowledgeable health-wise. The only thing 100% certain I can say on MRIs is the current technology includes dangerous decibel levels. My opinions on how to handle the need of an MRI are just all I can gather from the forums from people who endured that in the past, and what I'd do in your case, not those of a health professional.

- First consult with your doctor such alternative diagnosis paths - CTs also have issues. Regarding the risks of an MRI - not according to any scientific research but to anecdotal evidence on the forums - it may be higher for people with already weakened hearing, way more if noise based. Yet again, it must be consulted with your doctor, so you can get an informed choice on risks/benefits/alternatives - I'd personally explain him my real concern on MRIs even if he would not be too convinced on it. Maybe you'll get a clearer view if you speak with him -or maybe you did already... Then you'll need to decide.

- If you happen to carry out an MRI eventually, more than an "open" model, which doesn't look too popular, many forum users have instead recommended, even on this thread, that you ought to use double protection (earmuffs solely made of plastic above earplugs) and preferably look for certain "Pianissimo" Toshiba models and talk with the technician once there.

I've seen your threads and you seem like a nice guy, Wrfortiscue, I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks for the advice! My ENT said MRIs do not cause hearing damage… yeah that pretty much says it all lol. He's old school and offered me Lipoflavonoids for recovery. I mentioned how I feel I'm getting worse even though I've been protecting my hearing. He saw me tear up a bit above my mask and shook my hand. He saw the hope leave my eyes as I'm sure he's seen from others.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

The reason I believe neck/posture could be very involved even if noise-triggered are that a few cases can be traced on forum where neck was a clear contributor in the past. I'd be very thankful if @Greg Sacramento in particular weighed on this, having such extraordinary knowledge on the issue.

I read all your posts and you have much (most) of my problems where one problem leads to another, including with your above post.

One problem is probably from off balanced posture causing unbalanced muscles from neck muscle strain. Cranial nerves (several) seem to be at play.

Somatic posture muscle spasms that led to pulsatile blood pressure hypertension - same as me. All discussion within your above post is accurate.

The best treatment may be time, good posture and focus on good thoughts. Don't get dehydrated, maybe try liquid Vitamin C and Magnesium in small amounts 2 or 3 times a day.

My best guess is that your trapezius muscles on lower body height side and middle/upper back reacts to posture change by way of blood pressure hypertension when stressed. This would place concern to any anatomy above that. Lots of studies of then how cranial nerves (any or all) become involved. Proper neck and shoulder balance is needed.

A padded shoe might help on lower height side and a neck brace for one hour a day.

Very brief personal summary:

Tinnitus from noise (syringing) came first for me.

Then somatic factors neck/jaw from muscle contractions without proper head support caused high pitched tinnitus. My C spine straighten from this, but I did have C spine disc problems before this happening.

Finally, hypertension caused vision problems and pulsatile tinnitus.

Brief discussion: Read last sentence, but you probably don't have severe hearing loss from the MRI. Somatic factors since MRI, may act as triggers or modulators. So let's continue to focus on treatments for you.

Robert Aaron Levine, in Office Practice of Neurology (Second Edition), 2003:

Somatic (Head or Upper Cervical).
Observations abound supporting the notion that head and neck somatic events can be associated with tinnitus. About 20% of tinnitus clinic patients report that they can modulate their tinnitus somatically, such as by clenching the teeth or pushing on the head. Systematic studies find that more than 75% of people with tinnitus can modulate their tinnitus in a variety of ways. Most commonly it intensifies, but sometimes the tinnitus can become quieter, particularly if it is unilateral. Less often patients describe changes in its pitch or location. Occasionally changes can persist a minute or two after the manipulation is over.

Tinnitus generally is included among the features associated with pain in the temporal or preauricular region that goes by various names such as Costen's syndrome, craniomandibular disorder, and temporomandibular joint (TMJ) syndrome. Well-designed studies have shown a higher incidence of tinnitus in normal-hearing subjects with TMJ syndrome than in controls. The same is true regarding whiplash. From multiple other observations and case reports, the concept of tinnitus associated with whiplash and TMJ syndrome can be generalized to include tinnitus associated with any disorder of the upper cervical region and head, including dental pain.

The tinnitus temporally associated with unilateral somatic disorders is localized to the ipsilateral ear. Therefore, unilateral tinnitus with no associated auditory or vestibular symptoms such as hearing loss must be suspected for an ipsilateral head or neck somatic disorder. The physical examination should include inspection of the teeth for evidence of bruxism, such as excessive wear of the bottom incisors; palpation of the head and neck musculature for tender muscles under increased tension; and forceful systematic isometric contraction of muscle groups of the head, neck, and jaw for their effects on the patient's tinnitus.

Somatic modulation is one of at least three factors that have been associated with changes in tinnitus attributes. First, as described earlier, most if not all patients can somatically modulate their tinnitus. Stress is a second such factor. Patients consistently describe that they are more bothered by their tinnitus when under stress. Whether this is because the volume of tinnitus changes or because the patient focuses his or her attention on the tinnitus often cannot be distinguished by the patient. In fact, it could be that stress acts through somatic modulation to increase tinnitus loudness because contractions of craniocervical musculature such as clenching the teeth, furrowing the brow, or grimacing often accompany stress. Therefore, one way by which stress may lead to increased tinnitus loudness is through increasing head and neck muscle tension, which in turn lead to louder tinnitus by the somatic mechanism. Third, some subjects clearly associate an increase in their tinnitus loudness with exposure to loud sound, and in some the louder tinnitus can persist for hours after the exposure has ended. Therefore, if a patient reports that his or her tinnitus is intermittent or has wide fluctuations in loudness or other qualities, and there is neither exposure to intense sound nor evidence for stress, then somatic modulation must be suspected.

A history of variations in tinnitus loudness then raises suspicion for a somatic factor modulating the percept's loudness (Table 9-3). At one extreme are patients who describe that they have periods when their tinnitus cannot be heard, even in the quiet. Others report wide variations in the loudness of their tinnitus. For still others, their tinnitus is unilateral when it is quiet but becomes nonlateralized when the tinnitus is louder. Such phenomena suggest that there are ongoing somatically mediated factors modulating the tinnitus percept.

Diurnal fluctuations in the tinnitus percept also suggest that somatic modulation is operative. Patients who describe their tinnitus as louder upon awakening raise the possibility that somatic factors (such as bruxism or neck positioning) are active during sleep and are causing an increase in tinnitus loudness. Others describe that their tinnitus usually has vanished by the time they awaken and then returns a few hours into the day; this scenario suggests that during the day they are reactivating their tinnitus through somatic mechanisms, such as the tonic muscle contractions needed to support the head in an upright position or clenching related to the stress of daily activities. Finally, others describe that their tinnitus is louder after awakening from a nap in a chair; this may relate to somatic factors such as stretching of the neck muscles when their head passively falls forward while dozing in a sitting position.

In general, although a somatic factor on its own can cause tinnitus, much more often somatic factors combine with other factors (such as chronic hearing loss) to act as trigger factors or modulators. ​

 

[anotherforumuser]

Hi @Greg Sacramento, I am so grateful you checked my case. If I ever can be helpful in any way please indicate me too.

- I agree with the study conclusion too for my case on the MRI being clearly not a sole factor. I specially like the attention the article pays to switches into head tinnitus and that sometimes the left ear only has some odd pulsatile tinnitus sounds instead of the high pitch.

- So magnesium, Vit C & Paddled shoes only from now on! Probably I should get an orthopedic insole as well to improve general body posture and help trapezius, which seem indeed to suffer when I try to regain good position.

- The increased floaters indicate blood flow issues indeed. It would also explain jumping tinnitus, and even some pulsatile sounds on my "good" ear point that way. I had Doppler on carotids/supra-aortic done and it showed nothing of interest, but yes, posture issues alone can provoke silent hypertension anyway...

- In other threads you did mention "calcium, potassium nitrate, sodium potassium nitrate or B12 being stored and not released" as a possibility for floaters, and even somewhere else proteins/vitamin A were mentioned. Just a normal blood analysis would show me those?

>>Update; TMJ comes back:
-My right ear pain (the one with continuous tinnitus and where hearing loss was detected) is killing me all day long. After checking with another dentist, she claims a lesion in the right condyle, and she mentions the usual zygomatic bone suture being too wide (confirmed this latter point with a 3D scan). She says I may even need surgery. Apart of that she dislikes my 3 remaining wisdom teeth.

- Even after the limited neck surgery (it keeps shortened and inflamed and I need to stretch it), my right TMJ pain and my left Occipital seem to fight each other when laying in bed, no matter the pillow, showing an increased right ear pain / loud tinnitus coming alongside. Maybe that condyle is hurting like crazy some nerve (plus fighting the neck) and the right TMJ mess is also a primary cause after all.

I'll ask doctors on this and will consult if they can test somehow to find out if some nerve is under attack in that area and not just treat it with a splint - not illogical, after a life with a bent neck and thus jaw. Would really explain a lot of the case and hopefully can be treated...

 

[Greg Sacramento]

right TMJ pain and my left Occipital seem to fight each other when laying in bed, no matter the pillow, showing an increased right ear pain / loud tinnitus coming alongside.

I was going to ask you if you had this problem. It's a common problem with somatic issues and I often ask others if tinnitus increases with head to pillow. Occipital nerves being touched by tight muscles at back of head and also with noted C spine mentions doesn't help, but there's more to consider with associations:

A SCM will become short or tight from the following activities: Constant looking down at your phone. Turning your head away from the center while using a computer. Bending forward posture. Neck injury - Whiplash.

In articles, read about temporomandibular joint and elevation and protraction of the shoulders (trapezius) and back which I mentioned to you before. Your shortened SCM also caused (usual) zygomatic bone suture becoming too wide.

What is the Sternocleidomastoid Muscle, and how does it link to Bad Posture? - Your Body Posture

Anatomy, Head and Neck, Sternocleidomastoid Muscle Article (statpearls.com)

Sternocleidomastoid pain: Anatomy, causes, treatment, and exercises (belmarrahealth.com)

Since having SCM surgery, I can't recommend any therapy - a skilled therapist that knows from touch what if any treatment is needed. I would talk and take advice from your surgeon first.

Having had a shorten SCM caused your problems. Problems from a shorted SCM are referred elsewhere, to head and neck, eyes, ears, throat, facial and caused hypertension.

I agree with the study conclusion too for my case on the MRI being clearly not a sole factor.

All this agreeing is probably correct. I think the day will come when you see great tinnitus improvement. In a way, your shortening of a SCM caused many of the same non neuro problems as whiplash. Always avoid or protect from loud noise.

Stay in touch.

 

[linearb]

So I have an MRI scheduled to rule out a neuroma. Should I request a CT instead?

I've had somewhere between a half dozen and a dozen MRIs since my tinnitus worsening in 2010, mostly head/neck, on a variety of different machines.

I've always worn foam plugs under the facility provided muffs, and so far I have not had any spikes or issues I am aware of as a result.

CTs and MRIs are useful for different things, they are not necessarily interchangeable.

MRI contrast agents worry me more than MRIs.

 

[Wrfortiscue]

I've had somewhere between a half dozen and a dozen MRIs since my tinnitus worsening in 2010, mostly head/neck, on a variety of different machines.

I've always worn foam plugs under the facility provided muffs, and so far I have not had any spikes or issues I am aware of as a result.

CTs and MRIs are useful for different things, they are not necessarily interchangeable.

MRI contrast agents worry me more than MRIs.

I have had several MRIs and CTs with contrast in the past (other health issues) and never had a problem. Now after my new onset of tinnitus, my son yelling next to me can spike me for a day or two. I would play drums in an enclosed room without any protection and be fine before (very dumb btw).

 

[anotherforumuser]

Update;

Outlook looks very grim.

- My head tilt keeps the same - not sure if SCM max range has improved, but head or body posture has not changed. Will ask the surgeon next week if I had at least max range gains.

- Right ear pain with some jaw pain, together with occiput and neck berserk 24/7 make it impossible to get into a good posture or sleep or calm, which keeps loopholing this in turn. Pills do nothing and doctors are completely random regarding what treatment to propose for the neck and the ear, including the surgeon - all I get from him is stretching for the SCM, who just feels my occiput spasms is "just a contracture" like other doctors this week, but massage even far from the spine seems not to work.

I even wonder if physical therapy for the neck and back could be dangerous...

- I am forced to bet on inconclusive TMJ. An oral surgeon checked me, also checked the RMN/Mouth CT/X-ray, and she says it does not look like TMJD so far, and my right condyle looks normal to her. But the two dentists vote for wisdom teeth removal + splint, and 1 of those says I have lesions, while the other and the oral surgeon reject any lesion.

Not sure if pulling out those wisdom teeth is the desperate way forward to end this endless cycle of bad posture + ear/occiput + jaw pain... Most probably, I don't have any other survival chance but trying so, as my health is over anyway. In case I go that way I read in forum I could try to find somewhere to do the cleansing "manually", look for a place with a laser drill and the most important is not forcing any jaw or neck position, which is already very weakened in my case, but not sure a dentist would pay me attention on not forcing the positions.

All this agreeing is probably correct. I think the day will come when you see great tinnitus improvement. In a way, your shortening of a SCM caused many of the same non neuro problems as whiplash. Always avoid or protect from loud noise.

Stay in touch.

Good at least tinnitus has chances if the rest can be helped... Thanks again Greg, you did a lot of work on this.

I checked your history and checked the links. I understand the anatomy issue proposed indeed. Yet again we share a lot of similarities. As I did book already a neuro I may go visit him just to get an opinion on otalgia and occiput pain, though doctors answer randomly in cases like us.

@Michael17, you want to read Greg's explanations in the posts above, as our cases are very much alike in so many aspects.

 

[Wrfortiscue]

Just got called to schedule an MRI. Their MRIs are rated at 130 decibels! Even for 15 minutes with muffs that's nuts.

Gonna call around.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Right ear pain with some jaw pain

The sternocleidomastoid - Injuries to this muscle can cause jaw and ear pain. Wisdom teeth is a possibility.

Ear and jaw pain: Causes, remedies, and when to see a doctor (medicalnewstoday.com)

all I get from him is stretching for the SCM, who just feels my occiput spasms is "just a contracture" like other doctors this week, but massage even far from the spine seems not to work.

Occiput spasms are often caused from tight, stressed or injured neck muscles.

- I am forced to bet on inconclusive TMJ. An oral surgeon checked me, also checked the RMN/Mouth CT/X-ray, and she says it does not look like TMJD so far, and my right condyle looks normal to her. But the two dentists vote for wisdom teeth removal + splint, and 1 of those says I have lesions, while the other and the oral surgeon reject any lesion.

Lesions would not relate to your problems. Lesions could relate to someone with gum, tooth and bone infection. Lesions are caused from a sharp edges of an appliance or from a worn out tooth brush with hard brushing.

I don't think that any TMJD is prominent. You could have wisdom teeth pressure from C spine.

Problems are from posture history or more direct neck injury. History - Muscles appear to spasms placing pressure to C spine and occiput and from that - tissues and nerves become overwhelmed. Not sure on therapy at this time mentioned by your surgeon. Not sure if a soft neck brace for one hour a day use would help. Things may improve in a year with good posture now after having SCM surgery.

A Surgical Treatment for Adult Muscular Torticollis (hindawi.com)

I have many articles on therapy for all neck conditions, but there is disagreement among professionals.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@anotherforumuser, in the Hindawi link in post above, they programmed active, passive rotation and flexion rehabilitation from the next day after surgery.

I would also consider seeing an Orthopedic therapist that is a member of the American Physical Therapy Association for neck muscle therapy.

Neck Pain: Revision 2017 (orthopt.org)

https://www.vertigotreatment.org/post/cervical-vertigo-caused-by-neck-postures

SCM muscles seldom cause tinnitus, but can with ear pain caused by muscle spasm pressure to nerves, that extend to nerves of the ears. Consider study by an Orthopedic therapist for muscle therapy.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@anotherforumuser

What is really needed:

1. Active, passive rotation and flexion rehabilitation now after surgery for physical improvements.

2. See a therapist for tight muscles that may be pulling on your mastoid bone for relief of tinnitus.

3. To be examined by a therapist from what one of your dentist said, but I now don't think this is causing tinnitus, even with jaw pain, although for some it could. Need to discuss more about your jaw pain.
Compression of the maxillary artery within the pterygoids. Mandibular and muscular part.
Zygomaticomaxillary suture is between the zygomatic process of the maxilla and the maxillary process of the zygomatic bone.

4. Be careful of shoulder twisting until neck adjusts.

5. Consider study by an Orthopedic therapist for muscle therapy.
___________________________________________________________________________

The SCM originates on your collarbone and sternum and inserts into your mastoid bone (behind your ear). When the muscle contracts it pulls your mastoid bone toward your collarbone, which is why you turn in the opposite direction.

Inside your mastoid bone are the tiny bones that enable you to hear, but when the bone is being pulled they aren't tapping properly. As the bones misconnect, they cause ringing (tinnitus) in your ear, or you may have pain in your ear.

(Refer to #2 above as most likely cause of tinnitus, but occiput nerves may be inflamed as well and reasons are discussed in article. Treatment for this is to apply ice/heat therapy. Ice therapy may reduce local inflammation and relieve pain. Also muscle therapy.

Not in this article, but ear pain can be caused by muscle spasm pressure to nerves, that extend to nerves of the ears. Again for this consider study by an Orthopedic therapist for muscle therapy.

https://julstromethod.com/julie-donnelly-notes/tinnitus-causes/

 

[anotherforumuser]

Yes to the points you highlighted.

I have 3 wisdom teeth left, with the upper right one extracted many years ago. The detail that ties my focus to the mouth is that my ear pain is primarily felt in the lower part of the external auditory canal, not too deep usually (first place for pain to appear too), I even tried to "scratch" the auditory canal the first days with a q-tip, something that would mostly do nothing, would calm a few minutes the pain, or would trigger more pain and odd feelings as wet feeling or whatever, so I stopped doing so a month ago and the wet feeling did not return. Only second to it, also in the immediate place where ear/jaw/SCM touch each other, there are pains, but way more moderate, also they happen less-. Finally, the rest of the ear just annoys very mildly.

But hey, it is such a crossroads spot that it could be anything. So once again I learned from you that even if TMJ "could be", most chances by far, as the hundreds of papers you have been checking so carefully indicate, is that any role by the TMJ would be just ultimately born in the neck in turn. Wow, SCM can be so guilty, even by kicking from behind the ear those bones as in the last article!

Surgeon's neck therapy instructions so far is stretching SCM a few times a day and getting passive stretching once I can exactly as you highlight (already did this morning with a physical therapist, will do each couple of days). Direct muscle massage to the SCM was banned by the surgeon as he fears it may provoke it to contract even more. On Tuesday I check with him for updates on therapy and will ask him on the neck brace check you indicate - he's more keen on gentle movement in general though.

The surgery was not the classical release one, but an injection of fat in many points across the SCM - reason proposed by the surgeon to apply this new method being more chances of functionality of the muscle and fewer problems with the large scarring, particularly in adults (LINK to the paper)

Already working on 1, 2, 4.

(3) -> Not sure on what did they check when they touched my mouth, but will write it down and if I get to some oral surgeon/dentist again may ask about those, they seem to require an angiography though.

(5) -> Here orthopedic therapists just refer people to physical therapy, but I continue anyway the therapy based on surgeon's and physical therapist's advice.

 

[anotherforumuser]

Domino nightmare keeps going on neck rehab;

- I get slightly tingling feeling at the end of the hand fingers and at those of a foot. I believe this could be just because of me forcing "good" body posture to help the neck, so I stopped doing so to see if it goes away. Most probably related to C-spine and lumbar spine bulging, but then that means the bulgings are fighting against neck rehab and good body posture. Tomorrow I'll rush to some ER begging for that orthopedic surgeon it seems...

- If I plug my ears (only if I do so) I hear what seems blood flow. On the one hand, neck is supposedly forcing a bad blood flow input in my case - as known by floaters, so this could be just normal, but I did not hear it before, so not sure on how worrying this symptom could be of vertebrae being hurt by neck rehab or other flow. Also could be because just of me forcing positions and be soon gone as I stop doing so.

- And some metal taste in mouth.

All I can do is a bet on continuing neck rehab and crossing fingers... My health is over.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@anotherforumuser, I have discussed all that you mention in your post above in various posts within my history, but I could also add more about arteries for you. We are much similar.

It's a lot about you forcing positions of neck, shoulders and back which also brings in blood flow (nerves and arteries). Jaw may be receiving stress as well. Gentle good posture techniques are needed, but when you turn head, don't turn shoulders.

Everything that we discussed shouldn't be major issues in time (post surgery) including:

mastoid bones and associated nerves - tinnitus, ear pain, tingling fingers, tight neck muscles, occipital nerves, jaw stress, floaters, and blood flow sounds - blood pressure hypertension reacting to nerves behind ears. Cranial nerves will relax. Don't believe any neck arteries and veins have problems.

Maintain good posture - head, back and C spine. Use one thin pillow and when sleeping on side keep head balanced - not bent down or tilted up.

Stay relaxed and don't jerk shoulders up and down.

Do what your surgeon asks - careful stretching.

I would like to know what your physical therapist is doing.

 

[anotherforumuser]

mastoid bones and associated nerves - tinnitus, ear pain, tingling fingers, tight neck muscles, occipital nerves, jaw stress, floaters, and blood flow sounds - blood pressure hypertension reacting to nerves behind ears. Cranial nerves will relax. Don't believe any neck arteries and veins have problems.

Just like when you explained where this glass head tinnitus could easily come from, I am very reassured again. Thanks a lot for pointing again chances of this are also low, as I was quite panicked after rehab began and this calms me. Also, my metal taste seems gone.

It's a lot about you forcing positions of neck, shoulders and back which also brings in blood flow (nerves and arteries). Jaw may be receiving stress as well. Gentle good posture techniques are needed, but when you turn head, don't turn shoulders. Stay relaxed and don't jerk shoulders up and down.

Maintain good posture - head, back and C spine. Use one thin pillow and when sleeping on side keep head balanced - not bent down or tilted up.

I understand your point. For many years I went to physical therapy and posturologists - even had a splint to reposition my whole posture. Everything always failed to improve my body pains/posture for no obvious reason -only one of them thought it was my neck making it all impossible, as it forcefully messed the horizontality of my sight and placed pressure on the body in different ways. Also, my sleeping position had become increasingly impossible as the years went by - the body increasingly failed to compensate as I got older. I concluded he was right on the possible cause and thus why I had my surgery already on track before this began.

So I can't almost help posture in the first place, probably due to neck limitation. The main point being; I don't have any good posture where my body is not aching 24/7 and I can't balance the shoulders without it hurting the neck more. Such impossible biomechanics also explain my fast worsening - as you point out, SCM getting Trapezius on fire.

Tonight I slept on my back, as sleeping on my sides seems to annoy trapezius even if I match the head not to bend - intrinsically inflamed area. I used a "sand" pillow to adjust height to a comfortable thin and a small auxiliary towel so there was no room under my neck. Tinnitus and occiput went up a lot first until the back relaxed a bit, but then I had a better sleep for the first time in days. I believe sleeping on my back atm is the lesser bad for my trapezius. I even woke up feeling less bad vision/pain wise for the first day in weeks. During the day, I just switch postures a lot. I'll move without using the shoulders for bending and annoying the upper areas as little as possible.

Do what your surgeon asks - careful stretching. I would like to know what your physical therapist is doing.

My physical therapist focuses on relaxing the whole upper area except massaging the bad SCM itself as it was banned by the surgeon. She also has to do passive stretching of the SCM, which is the main point of rehab, and to prepare so she sometimes bent my heard forward gently (something which plays into my fears, today I'll ask her how really needed is it before beginning). Side SCM stretching also makes me nervous, given the fingers feeling. This rehab could be dangerous in my case...

Been to an orthopedic surgeon to ask him on my body posture not improving and the irritation of fingers - all he answered to my questions is if my spine is messed there's just physical therapy, sport and surgery but he'd be waiting anyway for the neck rehab to end before considering anything and said anyway he has no idea on my case and referred as others to a...

Neurologist: He considers I suffer "auricular nerve VIII neuralgia" and prescribed Carbamazepine (to me, it seems like a good medicine short term to help stop the vicious cycle of inflammation). He also went straight to my neck biomechanics/bulges and believes issues come from there.

Then he prescribed an MRI of the brain - I whined and whined - then he replaced it with a Head CT - I kept whining - he then even said clearly he doesn't believe at all it comes from my brain, but says he's forced to follow the protocol. I keep thinking a head CT is useless radiation in my case. He wants the ENT to recheck me again just as a what if too. Apart from that he's also very keen on waiting for some more post-surgery stabilization and getting that CT before doing anything on the neck - I believe he has no idea what could help the neck anyway, he seems to be considering infiltrations, but I'd rather go to something more radical myself if needed, time will tell.

Thanks again - you're working on my case much harder than any doctor.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@anotherforumuser, with auricular nerve VIII neuralgia which is very rare, pain is most often described as severe paroxysmal stabbing provoked by: turning the head, touching the neck, neck position during sleep and jaw movement. Patients receive GAN blocks: all noted dramatic improvement in pain. I had thought of this, but I dismissed it because I didn't think that you had severe stabbing when turning head.

As I mentioned cranial nerves, I did think of VII/VIII. Also Posterior Auricular nerve which does carry somatosensory fibers including taste fibers? I don't think though that any cranial nerves have become major players, but CTs and ultra sounds are needed for examination. I also considered other veins and arteries for blood flow sounds being received, but with you, I don't think so.

Your mastoid bone as discussed above, when being pulled may not be tapping properly which is a link to tinnitus, ear pain and everything that you have going on, including the effects on having a short SCM. This should resolve in time with your therapy. Trapezius movement by jerking up and down can light fires including blood flow hypertension associations. Sleeping on back is best. You most likely do have inflammation that can travel and Carbamazepine should help.

Well done with getting medical care. I think that you will recover.

 

[anotherforumuser]

I had thought of this, but I dismissed it because I didn't think that you had severe stabbing when turning head.

I don't feel more pain when turning the head at all, and while sleeping I usually get less pain, not more. And he did not check for the other stuff you mention either. Maybe he just wanted a name of a diagnosis, but it does not match the book as you say, so the solution maybe won't either - yet he also wants to look into the neck anyway, so can be useful...

Your mastoid bone as discussed above, when being pulled may not be tapping properly which is a link to tinnitus, ear pain and everything that you have going on, including the effects on having a short SCM. This should resolve in time with your therapy. Trapezius movement by jerking up and down can light fires including blood flow hypertension associations. Sleeping on back is best. You most likely do have inflammation that can travel and Carbamazepine should help.

Hopefully we're on a better track this way indeed. Today I talked to my Physical Therapist; she's positive we can regain over months some body posture in the trapezius/SCM area and is keen on me getting feet orthotics. Also, she reassured me she deals very gently with my neck.

Tomorrow I'll ask the surgeon on range of motion gains on SCM to see if surgery worked to some extent - I have range of motion of around 70º on the good side and 60º on the bad one, with around 80/5 being more normal, my PT says. Apart from that my future plans can include consulting yet again on my TMJ, but this time wondering how it could work if I got a better position or if it is preventing me from doing so in the first place, but I doubt maxillo/dentists can really answer me to such a complex anatomical question.

 

[anotherforumuser]

> Been thinking 24/7 in this "head momentary hypertensions syndrome" triggered usually by cochlear damage that @Greg Sacramento and just a fellow researchers he has met have built, and how to work from it in my case and I believe I now fully understand it -and many people on Tinnitus Talk would really benefit if they check for such a syndrome, especially if they suffer statistically uncommon floaters to their age.

- I've suffered a few more insomnia "hypertense" nights, triggered by constant SCM spasms. The Surgeon and the Physical Therapist who is working on me three times a week say they're normal, and will last weeks. This would be even much more of an horror story given they trigger deteriorating hypertense moments, would I not point out both also suggest I force the trapezius into a good posture, which seems to reduce finally my bad head posture and SCM spasms during the day at least - occiput pain is a bit better already, which reduces my stress and hopefully I can limit the SCM triggering spasms at some semiearly point by not moving any early muscle and I even try to sleep it with touch very slightly once it spasms during sleep or after a movement, trying not to mess with the inside fat, so maybe I get lucky enough to stop the crisis in a few days without hurting its functional recovery either.

Also the surgeon was more than happy with range of motion gains - but rehab will take months and it berserks the trapezius, so I may deteriorate a bit more before any potential gain. So bad news short term and sightly better future looks for my case. I keep working on stopping hypertense moments - as the "treatment" matches the rehab one anyway. I badly wish for a miracle; heal pain hyperacusis and revert to some extent the rest of the built-up issues.

- Given this "syndrome", a Neurologist would never explain my case entirely unlike it, as even getting fancy yet useless neuralgia diagnosis, any pinched nerves and alike would not explain visual symptoms that happened almost together with the onset (not just the very usual floaters, but something extremely specific and odd as temporary partially semishadowed vision on a single eye, which Greg mentioned in a post somewhere else and I had not even mentioned on this thread, but I did suffer during it hypertense nights), which really means >99% chance of this "syndrome" so common here being most of the story in my case).

In fact, the two neurologists seemed to consider any vision issue completely irrelevant. Given this, most I could get from this guy researching my neck and with the brain CT he wants is finding some amplifying, not sure if even something odd in neck or brain "triggering the trigger" factor of the syndrome as well, though chances are low - and even lower it could be treated.

- And then... my memory found something I completely skipped: just 6 months ago I visited a Rheumatologist. It was about my body pains. He said 99% chances I had nothing rheumatological, but ordered a lot of tests just to rule out, as he saw some vascular spiders on parts of my body. I did not follow as I already did consider neck surgery the way to go, and as those spiders and the pains happen solely in the parts of the body that actually are stressed from bad posture and had most of them since I was a child - other doctors always had labelled them irrelevant. Too late; now I know the head was actually the worst of those parts. But the question is, I scored low on leukocytes in the pre-surgery trial, was born with "Gilbert" and the guy wanted those tests even when I was radically better. I am doing my best now to return to the same guy and ask him to resume procedures and even some more. This does not negate the "syndrome", but maybe would allow finding a "cause of the cause" for the deregulation that triggers the syndrome in turn. Or maybe not, but the tests are blood and non-invasive echo, so they're more than worth a shot ASAP.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@anotherforumuser, for many of us, there's reasons why tinnitus and/or somatic physical tinnitus gets worse or pulsatile tinnitus developing or getting more pronounced.

A brief single hyperactive moment from raising blood pressure due to being emotionally upset or excited can damage our body or cause more damage. Otherwise blood pressure may be normal 99% of the time.

This damage from brief raising blood pressure dilatation event(s) can harm any anatomy or increase/mess with any underlining issues. Associations could be - ears, neck, jaw, facial, muscles, joints, arteries/veins, eyes/floaters, abdominal aortic aneurysm for those old or other aneurysms at any age.

Benzos don't control blood pressure and with continued use for months could cause more hyperactive activity.

Twisting, jerking or spasming the neck, muscles/ joints when having emotional hyperactive activity can cause or increase any issue(s) including physical somatic and pulsatile tinnitus.

When a MRI comes back clear, non ear issues, other radiological testing including CTs and ultrasound may show a problem. Radiation exposure is a concern with CTs.

 

[anotherforumuser]

Benzos don't control blood pressure and with continued use for months could cause more hyperactive activity.

Yeah, I had them a few days post-surgery and zero intention of continuation, they didn't help me anyway at all as they just fight the occiput...

Twisting, jerking or spasming the neck, muscles/ joints when having emotional hyperactive activity can cause or increase any issue(s) including physical somatic and pulsatile tinnitus..

Indeed.

When a MRI comes back clear, non ear issues, other radiological testing including CTs and ultrasound may show a problem. Radiation exposure is a concern with CTs.

Yes, I'm not happy with the neurologist's requirement of a Brain CT or MRI being so aware nothing of interest is there.

Chances are >80% my C-spine becomes the new guilty - assuming the SCM heals decently, so the point is how useful would be a CT or an ultrasound on C-spine or even on thoracic/lumbar spine, as the only useful info would be which C vertebrae and its related nerves could be the one sending inflammation upwards and how, as from C3 to C7 there's bulging and bad position. It could be even below that (no MRI of Thoracic but they look bad). A CT or ultrasound would probably not show the bad spot...

In fact, the issue in turn is probably not the vertebrae even if they look that bad, and solely the bad biomechanics stressing the muscles and the nerves, but then I need to repair the whole spine biomechanics for it to heal, which probably can't be done (mild scoliosis, SCM will not be perfect after surgery still...). Also the rest of the body seems to be rejecting repositioning, I even got the trapezius joint to the shoulder injured and now I can't move it above 90º - the physiotherapists says not to worry, so it would be hard to convince it into better positions, particularly the sacrum.

Just as you said, our problems are complicated, with many issues leading to others.

So I'll continue with physical therapy and trying to improve posture, but does radiology usually find the guilty vertebrae?

 

[anotherforumuser]

So my SCM is slowly healing. But ear pain, head congestion, head buzzing keeps there. Also been thinking in the odd "not sure if a kettle or water pipe" sound I faintly get in my right ear that could be anything - it's somewhere between vascular and a fainting normal tinnitus.

Also been pondering MRI details which I did not consider relevant back ago and now I view could be related in some cases to tinnitus (not sure if I translate properly);

- From C3 to C6 are all bulged, probably not causing a pinched nerve as MRI would maybe have shown. Yet again, my "accident" began there, so this may not be updated, but chances are quite low.

- C3 - C4 disc shows difuse bulging of osteophyte complex + signs of occupation in both lateral recess
-> could provoke stenosis, press the nerve.

- C4 - C5 disc shows left bulging of osteophyte complex, with partial ipsilateral occupation of recess and foramen
-> same

- C5-C6 disc shows mild central bulging, with contact to the anterior margin of the thelal sac
-> could be annoying the spine. can be treated if chances are high.

- C5-C6-C7 small cavity which could be syringomielia.
-> this was more relevant for the radiologist and one neuro, and could be or not be.

- Finally C7, which modulates sometimes my left ear tinnitus - makes it come or disappear-, is suffering a lot of pain and some movement from neck rehab and from my body positions daily, probably behind my silly arm, so who knows. Oddly, I noticed when I drink my TMJ pushes a bit C7 -seems to be related to my overbite.

- Scoliosis and other things do not seem to be a potential relevant issue. Yet the MRI mentions the axial images were not particularly disc-oriented, so checking discpathy is difficult
-> sounds like even more could be there

Conclusion; my c-spine has a lot there which could be behind the head tinnitus sound that appeared after onset. Some stuff could also be provoking some kind of stenosis.

 

[Uklawyer]

@anotherforumuser - I have read most of this thread. How awful all the things you have been through.

How are you doing now? I hope you have found some answers to your problems and that you have had some success with treatment - it looks like you have had a huge battle on your hands.

@Greg Sacramento looks to have been amazing in his support, as usual.