MRI (Magnetic Resonance Imaging) Discussion & Experiences & Questions

[Maria Francesca]

Did the helmet provide sound attenuation? Are the sponges added to the helmet or the helmet is like "padded" with sponge?

The helmet does not provide sound attenuation. The sponges are added and fitted manually.

I had my MRs in Creu Blanca, it is considered the best center for scans in Barcelona.

 

[Darktale]

Can you provide the brand and model please?

George

In my previous post, I quoted an older post where I gave direct links to pictures of the earmuff box where you will have brand and model...

 

[GeorgeLG]

In my previous post, I quoted an older post where I gave direct links to pictures of the earmuff box where you will have brand and model...

I'm not finding that link/info.

George

 

[GoatSheep]

As far as I am concerned I am using these earmuffs (on top of earplugs) during my MRI exams.

Already did 2 MRI with it and no image artefacts or any similar issue.

It is written clearly "Metal Free" and "suitable for MRI" on the box.

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Only Issue is to get the approval from the MRI center to use it... Recently I contacted another MRI center closer to my home which has now been equipped with Canon Orian device and they told me "you can come with earplugs but earmuffs are not allowed"... Despite showing picture of the earmuff box mentioning "Suitable for MRI", "Metal free" they don't want me to use it... so I said go to hell...

I will do my MRI in the same center as last time even if further from my home.

@GeorgeLG, it's the above post.

 

[GeorgeLG]

@GeorgeLG, it's the above post.

Thank you.

 

[Baker]

I have already posted in other MRI discussions but for me the safety of the MRI for tinnitus/hyperacusis sufferers all depends on the device used.

That's why everyone who is posting on Tinnitus Talk saying MRI has spiked or worsened their tinnitus, or the opposite, had no effect on it should mention the MRI device.

Too many times there is no mention of the MRI device in the posts.

I had an MRI session last winter. It was for the hand and you are in a "Superman" position with the hand above your head directly in the tunnel meaning your head is fully in the middle of the MRI tunnel.

I had been told and I had read on the internet Toshiba/Canon MRI were the quietest so I contacted the MRI Market Director of Canon through LinkedIn and he was kind enough (many thanks to him!) to answer me with the locations near Paris in France which are equipped with Canon Orian 1.5T device.

He confirmed to me that any musculoskeletal MRI exam on the Canon Orian (new name of Toshiba Vantage Titan) does not exceed 85 dB which is why it is no longer legally mandatory to supply hearing protection for the center (in France legislation threshold is 85 dB).

Unlike GE or Siemens which are using software program to cut noise, Canon is using a hardware solution (vacuum) + software.

The fact is that you cannot rely on the software solution because it is not always possible to use the software silent sequences for every exam. On top of that, it takes longer so people in the MRI center are reluctant to use them and if there are MRI exams planned every 20 minutes they will go for the fastest... Finally, during the exam if the technician needs higher quality he will not use the silent sequences...
All this to say that even if you have your MRI on a recent device which has so-called silent sequences, you are never sure they will be used...

Whereas, when it is a hardware solution like with Canon, this is necessarily used for all the exams, all the sequences, all the time... The Software "Pianissimo Zen" which can be added on top is the cherry on the cake.

During my hand MRI, I used Earsoft FX earplugs + a special MRI headset with no metal on top of that that I brought myself.

Let's be honest, the exam seemed still loud to me (especially some sequences looking like jackhammer which panicked me a bit) but it was surely mainly due to my fear and anxiety rather than the noise level itself.

I sang gently during the whole MRI and my voice heard from the inside (with the earplugs) was partly covering the noise...

At the end nothing to report on my hyperacusis or my tinnitus.

A friend of mine suffering from both tinnitus and hyparcusis has had 4 MRIs over the last 3 years (back and head). He had the first three with Siemens 1.5T Area and the last one with a Canon Orian 1.5T... He confirmed the Canon is way quieter...

I cannot say any MRI exam on Canon will be safe for anybody with tinnitus/hyperacusis because we are all different and I would never take this responsibility.

However, there is a big difference between GE/Siemens/Phillips and the Canon device so if you have to go for a MRI, pick up the Canon and try to go relax...

There are many posts here saying "never go to an MRI", "if I were you, I would not go", "MRI ruined my life..." but sometimes you just have no choice because of the seriousness of the underlying disease and because not all the MRI exams can be replaced by CT/scan or something else...

The anxiety can be really harmful, sometimes more than the noise level of the Canon MRI itself.

Is this accurate that the current Canon "Orian" model is the new name of old "Toshiba Vantage Titan"? As I can find Titan MRI machine locations in a few hours' drive in different locations. I need a thoracic spine MRI. I'm going to call the places to see if they can give me the dB rating of their earmuffs.

And does anyone know if the "vacuum" that allows these MRI machines to be quieter than say a GE or whatever, is that vacuum something built into the machine? Or does the tech have to be pulling a vacuum? I wonder if some places may not be pulling a vacuum as they may not know what they are doing? The different places that I've found that has a Titan, their techs have no idea what I'm talking about regarding the coils being in a vacuum to lower the noise.

And can anyone share the contact information of someone at Canon so I could find out who has their MRI machines in various states? I'd like to see if I can find a place within a three hour drive that has a newer quieter model than the "Titan".

Thanks.

 

[Darktale]

As already said in my post you quoted, Canon Orian is the new name of the Toshiba Vantage Titan since Canon bought Toshiba medical business. Performance is the same. Noise is the same.

It is not an issue if the techs do not know how the device is built in. As long as it is a Canon or the Toshiba Titan, it will be a device with the hardware vacuum solution, so the best you can find.

 

[Baker]

As already said in my post you quoted, Canon Orian is the new name of the Toshiba Vantage Titan since Canon bought Toshiba medical business. Performance is the same. Noise is the same.

It is not an issue if the techs do not know how the device is built in. As long as it is a Canon or the Toshiba Titan, it will be a device with the hardware vacuum solution, so the best you can find.

Thanks. I wanted to double check as this is the only place I heard of those two MRI machines being the same.

I'll have to see if I can call Canon to see if the vacuum chamber is something that is 100% functional all the time, or if the tech has to apply the vacuum. As the techs I talked to didn't have a clue what I was talking about regarding the Canon MRI machines having a vacuum on it to reduce noise. Next time, I'll have to see when I call those radiology departments, if I can talk to the director or something instead of just a regular tech who doesn't seem to know much about their MRI machines.

EDIT:

Can someone tell me the contact information people have used to contact Canon to get MRI machine locations and information? I tried calling their number, but they will only talk to actual customers and tell patients to ask questions to their doctor. I was hoping to find Canon MRI locations without having to call a thousand hospitals burning up all of my minutes. Thanks.

Also, it would be nice if this website had a section of Canon MRI locations that people could submit so we can get a database going instead of random message board posts.

 

[Baker]

The only Canon MRI machines I can find in my state are the Canon/Toshiba "Titan". I had been looking maybe the next state over for a newer quieter Canon MRI machine that has software too. No one I called can tell me if their Canon Titan MRI machine has the "Pianissimo Zen" software package.

I did talk to a tech in radiology at one of the hospitals who called Canon and then called me back. The tech tried to get the min/max decibels for an MRI of the thoracic spine for each sequence. But either Canon wouldn't or couldn't give that info out. But Canon told the tech to expect around 70-80 decibels for a thoracic MRI. I have no clue how that compares to other brands regarding a thoracic spine.

The tech also said Canon said the "Titan" has a max decibel of 109 decibels. Which the tech said something that high of decibel would be for certain head scans, not the spine.

The tech also said Canon told them there are certain adjustments they could make to lower the noise. Something about changing the "fast spin echo" and change SAR to low or something. Too bad this hospital is a few hours further away than others with the same MRI machine.

But I do mow the yard with earmuffs on and seem to do okay best I can tell. I believe the lawnmowers go to 90 decibels. But not all noise is the same. i.e. a high pitched 90 decibel vs a low pitch 90 decibel.

 

[Baker]

Well, I need a thoracic MRI. And apparently my luck is that they design these machines to where your head is put in a cradle or whatever for a thoracic spine MRI, but their earmuffs don't fit inside the cradle. From asking techs at these radiology departments trying to get their earmuff NRR rating, which they never know what it is.

I had planned on crossing my fingers and hoping for the best with earplugs and earmuffs, but now earmuffs aren't an option. And I'm not sure if just wearing earplugs alone is safe enough for Canon Titan? I don't believe it has any of the extra quiet software like what is available. Or at least the tech has no idea what I'm talking about when asking if their machine also has the "Pianissimo Zen" software.

The tech did talk about stuffing my head with padding in the cradle. Which I told the lady stuffing my head with padding probably wouldn't be comfortable, and stuffing padding around your head, while better than nothing, isn't a substitute for hearing protection.

Anyone know of thin MRI earmuffs that fit in those Canon cradles or whatever it is your head goes into? The techs sure know nothing.

And I'm thinking the Titan and Orian are two different machines. Since Canon has listed them like they are different models. It's entirely possible that the Orian is a new machine that uses same magnet core or whatever that the Titan uses though. But there's got to be something different about them for them to have different model names.

I might look into the foam earplugs with the gel thing that you can stuff in the outside of your ear. I've never used those before, but I believe they have like a -20 dB NRR. So maybe with earplugs and those gel things, I could get a -50 dB NRR in total. And on top of that, I'm going to try and see if I can get a depressant since the lame spine doctor wouldn't prescribe it. As I have chronic tremors, and I have no idea how bad it will be on the day of the MRI, and so my MRI could end up coming out blurry for all I know and be a waste of time and gas.

 

[ajc]

I might look into the foam earplugs with the gel thing that you can stuff in the outside of your ear. I've never used those before, but I believe they have like a -20 dB NRR. So maybe with earplugs and those gel things, I could get a -50 dB NRR in total.

That's not how it works. Double protection doesn't mean you get the sum of two NRRs.

All it takes is a simple calculation to determine the level your double hearing protection is providing: Add 5 dBA to the highest noise reduction rating of the higher-rated hearing device. For example, if you're using an earplug with a 30 NRR and an earmuff with a 26 NRR, you would add 5 dB to the 30 NRR for the earplug. Your protection level would then increase to 35 dB, assuming the earplug is worn properly. This simplified method of calculating double protection dBA is based on OSHA recommendations.

Source was:
https://www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/articles/19104-double-hearing-protection

By the way... I can almost guarantee you will get a spike from the MRI, no matter what you wear or do. You have been overthinking this so much that you are bound to get a spike just from the worry and obsession, even if it isn't a real spike. So be prepared for that and wait it to go back to baseline in a few days/weeks/months.

 

[Baker]

That's not how it works. Double protection doesn't mean you get the sum of two NRRs.

All it takes is a simple calculation to determine the level your double hearing protection is providing: Add 5 dBA to the highest noise reduction rating of the higher-rated hearing device. For example, if you're using an earplug with a 30 NRR and an earmuff with a 26 NRR, you would add 5 dB to the 30 NRR for the earplug. Your protection level would then increase to 35 dB, assuming the earplug is worn properly. This simplified method of calculating double protection dBA is based on OSHA recommendations.

Source was:
https://www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/articles/19104-double-hearing-protection

By the way... I can almost guarantee you will get a spike from the MRI, no matter what you wear or do. You have been overthinking this so much that you are bound to get a spike just from the worry and obsession, even if it isn't a real spike. So be prepared for that and wait it to go back to baseline in a few days/weeks/months.

I don't think I buy that calculation. I've done tests where I have earplugs in, and then I put -33 dB earmuffs on top. And there's more than 5 dB added protection. I'd say to me it sounded like what noise I could hear got cut in half when I put the earmuffs on top of my earplugs when cranking up my electric guitar doing tests to see how effective earplugs vs earmuffs were.

I don't get so called "spikes" from worry or whatever it is you are talking about. I wouldn't have to "overthink" anything if I knew the locations of all the Canon MRI machines so I could pick the quietest one to go to within a 3 hour drive. But I can't find this info. Also, I like doing my own research, but no info is really available on anything. So yeah, it would be real easy to figure out things if there was say an article explaining the differences in quiet technology between the different Canon machines.

And as said, I had planned on just going in for the Titan one hour away and hoping for the best until I found out I can't wear earmuffs. Which I'm glad I found that out before driving out of town. So now, I'm back to calling around a thousand hospitals to see if one in a 3 hour drive has a newer Canon MRI machine with all the fancy software packages, etc.