MemberThe over-analysis in this thread is pretty high. I understand people have anxiety about tinnitus and potential treatments but sometimes it's good to take a step back and not parse every phrase and make assumptions.
MuteButton
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This is spot on about insurance companies. Once an insurance company covers a treatment for tinnitus it will mean mass adoption ($$).
I would 100% believe this product is a scam if they hadn't hired Hubert Lim, who was the head of the University of Minnesota trial which showed amazing results for a member on this board.
Why would he join this company if it was some scam when he can release his own device down the line?
Why would he join this company if it was some scam when he can release his own device down the line?
Funny how the sentiment in this thread can swing manic-depressive style from one extreme to the next. Seems like the day isn't complete for some people until they can find something to criticize. I don't see how anything has changed vis a vis the credibility of Neuromod today vs. last week or the week before. So they're trademarking a name. Big deal. Don't like the name? Who gives a rat's ass what the name is? The name sounds like just about every other commercial drug name you get bombarded with on TV.
And as for whether Neuromod is innovating or not, again, I...DON'T...CARE. Leave those sorts of issues to the lawyers and the tabloids. If the thing works and they bring it to market while Susan Shore is more interested in surfing on her tenure than moving forward, more power to them. It's not a popularity or virtue contest. I don't care if the guys behind Neuromod take the money and blow it on whores and cocaine as long as the device does the job.
And as for whether Neuromod is innovating or not, again, I...DON'T...CARE. Leave those sorts of issues to the lawyers and the tabloids. If the thing works and they bring it to market while Susan Shore is more interested in surfing on her tenure than moving forward, more power to them. It's not a popularity or virtue contest. I don't care if the guys behind Neuromod take the money and blow it on whores and cocaine as long as the device does the job.
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- Mar 1, 2018
- 871
- Tinnitus Since
- birth/ recent spike 2/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
Did you even do the literature review? Susan Shore's researched is ALL based off of work started by Neuromod's Chief Scientific Officer (initially done at the University of Minnesota... the guinea pig study!!)It almost seems like they assume that however they treat us, we will be buying their toy anyway.
In particular, it is researched by Susan Shore. But Neuromod cannot be credited with the idea or research into its application. True, they ran a trial. But I think they only did that to be able to slide this thing into healthcare systems eventually.
In short: Neuromod is not into medical research, they are in the business of marketing existing ideas - and hope for the best, a bit like Chinese rip-offs.
If the device works, all is forgiven. But until then, I will frown upon them until my eyebrows cramp up.
It's a red-herring anyway. Science is an iterative process that builds upon what came before. If totally isolated sparks of brilliance were required then we'd never have left the stone age.
Agreed. Also, I appreciate their trepidation in giving away too much information. Especially since it's such a serious subject, with so many severe sufferers, they have to be very careful with what they share. If they were to give approximated release dates, while they can still shift or be delayed at this point, you'd give people false hope. Sometimes, it's best to wait a little longer before giving details, instead of keep announcing release dates that keep shifting.
I believe the January and Q1 estimates so far came from third parties, or were assumptions, or were given with very careful wording. You can even see it in the video Q&A and the extensive editing they wanted, and in the naming of the device. No false promises. I think that shows respect.
Is it okay to ask how your tinnitus is doing now or are you not supposed to talk about the results if you were in a trial?
Drone Draper
Member
I think Neuromod is a small company that's frantically trying to bring a new product to launch.
I've been involved with a few product and website launches in financial services, and I think I've only been involved in one launch that happened remotely on time.
I guess they need to be a bit more careful with their communication, because the target customers are in some cases hanging on by ... not much.
I still have faith it will be effective for most to a little degree and to a few to a large degree.
I've been involved with a few product and website launches in financial services, and I think I've only been involved in one launch that happened remotely on time.
I guess they need to be a bit more careful with their communication, because the target customers are in some cases hanging on by ... not much.
I still have faith it will be effective for most to a little degree and to a few to a large degree.
- Mar 1, 2018
- 871
- Tinnitus Since
- birth/ recent spike 2/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
It's fine to ask. My tinnitus isn't really a part of my daily life. I'm here for the habit and friendship. I think about it maybe 5 minutes a day.
Does someone know the medical contraindications for using the Neuromod device? I can't find the information anymore even on their website or in the interview video but I remember reading a short list sometime ago.
Drone Draper
Member
If Neuromod is a Chinese ripoff...
Susan Shore = Apple
Neuromod = Huawei
You may have scoffed at some of the earlier phones, but Huawei's phones are top notch now.
Susan Shore = Apple
Neuromod = Huawei
You may have scoffed at some of the earlier phones, but Huawei's phones are top notch now.
- Mar 1, 2018
- 871
- Tinnitus Since
- birth/ recent spike 2/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
From what I remember no electrical implants (pacemaker etc), significant hyperacusis (the sound has to be played at a volume that seemed around 60dB), also there can be irritation on the contact points (but I never noticed anything like that).
Would you say that you still have silence, and is this, or any other improvement, a result of trialling one of these devices? I'm glad, either way, tinnitus is not part of your daily life.
- Mar 1, 2018
- 871
- Tinnitus Since
- birth/ recent spike 2/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
I hear it with my head against the pillow. Or when my TMJ acts up, but otherwise it's minimal.
Thank you @kelpiemsp!
No contraindications for eustachian tube troubles?
I don't know if my tinnitus is due to loud noise or eustachian tube...
Does someone know if the Neuromod device could also be efficient on tinnitus caused by the eustachian tube?
No contraindications for eustachian tube troubles?
I don't know if my tinnitus is due to loud noise or eustachian tube...
Does someone know if the Neuromod device could also be efficient on tinnitus caused by the eustachian tube?
- Mar 1, 2018
- 871
- Tinnitus Since
- birth/ recent spike 2/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
I do not think so. I struggle with eustachian tube issues as well. I had to have tubes put in when I was a young child. But now I think it is most likely linked to TMJ causing eustachian tube inflexibility or something similar. But what eustachian tube problem is simulating is "hearing loss" as it can affect hearing. I have noticed less tinnitus when my eustachian tube gets blocked. If that helps.
Is that down to a device based on the Shore technology? If you don't want to say or can't, it's fine.
- Oct 17, 2017
- 646
- Tinnitus Since
- 2005
- Cause of Tinnitus
- unknown - possibly hereditary
Ok @kelpiemsp I hope MuteButton will be efficient on central tinnitus and other causes.
In France we don't have many treatments for eustachian tube diseases... I will make some tests soon to find what my problem is. But I think my eustachian tube stays open most of the time... my ears get blocked, especially in some specific situations... During sports... etc.. I also have TMJ issues...
I have pain to high frequency sounds and sometimes when I speak my right ear is painful.
I think this eustachian tube disorder contributed to the acoustic shock...
@kelpiemsp, now you do not have eustachian tube problems anymore?
In France we don't have many treatments for eustachian tube diseases... I will make some tests soon to find what my problem is. But I think my eustachian tube stays open most of the time... my ears get blocked, especially in some specific situations... During sports... etc.. I also have TMJ issues...
I have pain to high frequency sounds and sometimes when I speak my right ear is painful.
I think this eustachian tube disorder contributed to the acoustic shock...
@kelpiemsp, now you do not have eustachian tube problems anymore?
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Fabrikat
Member
- May 1, 2017
- 416
- Tinnitus Since
- 1973
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Otosclerosis then volume then viral infection
The reason I'm not feeling particularly forgiving is that this isn't a completely new launch scenario for Neuromod.
They've already been on the market with this device years ago.
That's why I feel it's more about marketing, upscaling and setting themselves up as a multinational business.
Once they tweaked the protocol after the first time round, they could've been selling this box ages ago if they wanted. Certainly in Ireland anyway.
They've already been on the market with this device years ago.
That's why I feel it's more about marketing, upscaling and setting themselves up as a multinational business.
Once they tweaked the protocol after the first time round, they could've been selling this box ages ago if they wanted. Certainly in Ireland anyway.
Is there anyone on this board who tested the first device from Neuromod and was it also with bimodal neuromodulation or only a sound file?
- Mar 1, 2018
- 871
- Tinnitus Since
- birth/ recent spike 2/2018
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
Either way you know the original device wasn't pulled because of lack of efficacy, right?
Fabrikat
Member
- May 1, 2017
- 416
- Tinnitus Since
- 1973
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Otosclerosis then volume then viral infection
If you go back to the very first page of this thread started in 2011, Tinnitus Talk members were expressing interest in the first trials for MuteButton and you'd probably find people who purchased it later on in the thread.
MuteButton has always been about bimodal stimulation.
OK, no I didn't know as @Fabrikat said they've been on the market already years ago with a device so I assumed people have tried it.
- Aug 21, 2014
- 5,049
- Tinnitus Since
- 1999
- Cause of Tinnitus
- karma
The claim made in the interview with @Steve is that they were incredibly small and venture funded at that time, and had resources to pursue either ongoing sales of their existing device or a larger study and refining of the tech, but not both, and elected to go with the latter.
I am not privy to their books, so I don't know how true that is, but as someone who has worked at some really tiny startups where "pivot what we're doing and try to keep the lights on" is the law of the land, it's certainly possible.
I browsed quickly through the first pages and found 3 people who started using the first Neuromod device and were saying they would report their results but the funny thing is they never came online again afterwards, I guess because they were cured?
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
Been catching up on posts just now and I thought I'll reflect. Sad still no news on this device, but thought I'll have some input as I'm not short of offering my views.
Firstly, the small study by Susan Shore was good, not but not amazeballs in terms of efficacy.
Second, you can see the results of efficacy through the Neuromod website of a small study of 60 people dating back before the first MuteButton came out. A lot of them were non-compliant so the results were even smaller. Like Susan Shore's study, the results were good, but not earth shattering.
Third, the poster who asked about anybody who used MuteButton (the original one) - There was an Irish lad who was on the trial. Again, he said it was good, but later said it was a 5/10 (comprehend that how you want). None of his posts reported particularly ground breaking results.
Fourth, Neuromod have already disclosed that they are testing different arms (parameters). One thing Dr. Ross O'Neill did disclose was people responded better to high frequency than low frequency stimulation and then went on that people had longer term effects of it.
Fifth, absolutely nobody here knows the results of efficacy from TENT-A1 or A2. We have a couple of very positive feedback, and I personally have seen more negative feedback of it doing nothing (not by lots but these comments have been made by people who were on the trial).
Sixth, Neuromod have appointed prominent tinnitus researchers on their board. Hubert Lim - is indeed from the University of Michigan where this research has stemmed from although I recall it was originally from another university from somewhere else. Richard Tyler is also very good, he has published and been cited a lot of times. The others are also well known in the field. Neuromod are not just merely a commercial company looking to sell tack, by the looks of it they have the minds and passion behind it to actually sell a product based on evidence.
I also checked out the patent page and what was interesting was the inventors of the MuteButton or Lenire or whatever it's called. Dr. Ross O'Neill was one of them and several other people including Caroline Hamilton, but none of the other prominent researchers we talk about. Some unknown names on there that I plan to look into.
What would be interesting is if this treatment goes mainstream and becomes accepted (something that will be difficult to do and may take some years), who will then be known as the person who 'cured' tinnitus?
Firstly, the small study by Susan Shore was good, not but not amazeballs in terms of efficacy.
Second, you can see the results of efficacy through the Neuromod website of a small study of 60 people dating back before the first MuteButton came out. A lot of them were non-compliant so the results were even smaller. Like Susan Shore's study, the results were good, but not earth shattering.
Third, the poster who asked about anybody who used MuteButton (the original one) - There was an Irish lad who was on the trial. Again, he said it was good, but later said it was a 5/10 (comprehend that how you want). None of his posts reported particularly ground breaking results.
Fourth, Neuromod have already disclosed that they are testing different arms (parameters). One thing Dr. Ross O'Neill did disclose was people responded better to high frequency than low frequency stimulation and then went on that people had longer term effects of it.
Fifth, absolutely nobody here knows the results of efficacy from TENT-A1 or A2. We have a couple of very positive feedback, and I personally have seen more negative feedback of it doing nothing (not by lots but these comments have been made by people who were on the trial).
Sixth, Neuromod have appointed prominent tinnitus researchers on their board. Hubert Lim - is indeed from the University of Michigan where this research has stemmed from although I recall it was originally from another university from somewhere else. Richard Tyler is also very good, he has published and been cited a lot of times. The others are also well known in the field. Neuromod are not just merely a commercial company looking to sell tack, by the looks of it they have the minds and passion behind it to actually sell a product based on evidence.
I also checked out the patent page and what was interesting was the inventors of the MuteButton or Lenire or whatever it's called. Dr. Ross O'Neill was one of them and several other people including Caroline Hamilton, but none of the other prominent researchers we talk about. Some unknown names on there that I plan to look into.
What would be interesting is if this treatment goes mainstream and becomes accepted (something that will be difficult to do and may take some years), who will then be known as the person who 'cured' tinnitus?
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
You are absolutly correct. NICE in the U.K. would generally approve it before it being adopted by the NHS - this was done for Acoustic CR Neuromodulation. Of course it was thrown out of the window because of a 'limited evidence base'.
500 people, in their eyes, is not enough proof for it to be adopted, especially when there isn't a 100% reporting significant improvement.
It'll either be a big success, or will slowly die and become less of an interest just like ACRN. That's what I think anyway.
Just to slightly fact check you here. Hubert Lim is from the University of Minnesota which pioneered the bimodal stimulation method. Susan Shore is from the University of Michigan who picked up on this study and has been working with the results and research from Minnesota. Hubert Lim has stepped away from his PI role at Minnesota and is working with Neuromod. @kelpiemsp was part of the University of Minnesota study. I am not trying to nickel and dime you here, but there has been so much misinformation I think it is important to keep the facts around this device.
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