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[Paulmanlike]

Why the change? Did I miss something?

Check out the 'hidden' videos posted earlier - there are 5 more that none of us were aware of until @EDDTEKK posted them. They are on YouTube but not on their website.

I remain cautiously optimistic yet realistic.

 

[spedgas]

Why the change? Did I miss something?

People are revisiting the Neuromod patient testimonial videos and losing their minds over the lack of patient enthusiasm.

 

[Jack Straw]

People are revisiting the Neuromod patient testimonial videos and losing their minds over the lack of patient enthusiasm.

I think it is more of a cultural thing than anything. In all the other interviews Irish men were also very reserved. It is just how they are.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Was @kelpiemsp a person who habituated and got used to the sound though? This is what I'm speaking about when I say this.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/posts/419355/

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/posts/416875/

 

[Alex Matyjasek]

I hope the videos are the 20% that didn't get better, if not, what a lot of noise for nothing.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

How the hell did they get an additional $25,000,000 in investment with this kind of lackluster response? There has to be something they're not telling us.

I wonder if Dr. Hubert Lim brought in some more information about improved signal timing that may have caused improvements since the trials. That could account for the delay if they have to reprogram the damn things before they can sell them.

 

[_Patrick_]

It's not about their lack of enthusiasm, it's about the fact that the device didn't do much to their tinnitus.

 

[GlennS]

I didn't want to seem ageist, but yeah. It'd be interesting to see how the success is spread across age and time of suffering from tinnitus.

One of those said he had only had tinnitus for 4 months even though he was older. Age might be more of a factor instead of length of time having tinnitus.

I am getting a sense from the videos that the response rate to the treatment is all over the map with only a small (but genuine) chunk experiencing major reductions. This would make it a real crapshoot to determine whether to spend the money.

I'm already sort of bargaining in my head over this, hoping that the variability is a byproduct of the protocol and that maybe it can be improved over time rather than this entire treatment approach being inherently unstable and limited.

 

[Drone Draper]

I don't think Irish people are necessarily reserved by nature, but these are edited interviews by a company offering a medical device, don't forget.

 

[Don Tinny]

I had expectations but I see that this starts to have a TRT / Sound Therapy vibe. I should keep my hopes with the FX-322.

 

[Paulmanlike]

@Aaron123 I see you made a brief appearance on Tinnitus Talk yesterday, I would really like your thoughts on Neuromod.

 

[Paulmanlike]

One of those said he had only had tinnitus for 4 months even though he was older. Age might be more of a factor instead of length of time having tinnitus.

I am getting a sense from the videos that the response rate to the treatment is all over the map with only a small (but genuine) chunk experiencing major reductions. This would make it a real crapshoot to determine whether to spend the money.

I'm already sort of bargaining in my head over this, hoping that the variability is a byproduct of the protocol and that maybe it can be improved over time rather than this entire treatment approach being inherently unstable and limited.

You make some good points Glenn.

I guess we may find out soon enough as the data comes in from TENT-A2 where they are testing 9 different arms and comparing different tinnitus sub-types. Hopefully they'll learn something new and also as Dr. Ross O'Neill stated they don't want to waste patients' time - that they can also determine who is likely to be non responders.
What is unclear to me though is what they mean by different tinnitus sub-types as this is only designed for subjective tinnitus.

I guess if they are going to charge thousands for the treatment, they are going to have to determine these things if they really want to capture the market. The average person doesn't have 3-4K to spend on a treatment that 'may or may not work'.

 

[Bob den Hartog]

Well, the older you get, the less adaptive a brain gets. It's easier to learn a new language or adapt to modern technology at a younger age. As you get older, the brain becomes less of a sponge, and "closes off", more or less. It gets more difficult to come through. I think that's the thing here.

This also ties into the reactive tinnitus group being the most responsive. "The more reactive, the better", he said in the Q&A. In those cases, the brain is very much reacting to external impulses. It picks up on sounds, reacts to them, changes accordingly. So it would be more likely to respond to a treatment.

I'm not able to see these videos, but Neuromod also showing less glowing reviews, actually makes the positive ones more believable. Obviously these are not staged, as was speculated about before. They are willing to show nuance, and a more real responds. It's not all, BUY THIS WE GUARANTEE IT WORKS. Also, we KNOW there's a group of 20% non-responders. This isn't new information! All we know is they are willing to paint a more nuanced picture!

Man, negativity is read into everything they put out, and people are quick to make irrational assumptions based on nothing.

 

[gorzakus]

I don't really see what is the problem with these videos, two are talking about a major improvement and the other three it helped dealing with tinnitus as well. Maybe it has to do with my expectations, I don't expect this device to get me rid of my tinnitus but to help with the volume and intensity.

 

[dayma]

Well, the older you get, the less adaptive a brain gets. It's easier to learn a new language or adapt to modern technology at a younger age. As you get older, the brain becomes less of a sponge, and "closes off", more or less. It gets more difficult to come through. I think that's the thing here.

This also ties into the reactive tinnitus group being the most responsive. "The more reactive, the better", he said in the Q&A. In those cases, the brain is very much reacting to external impulses. It picks up on sounds, reacts to them, changes accordingly. So it would be more likely to respond to a treatment.

I'm not able to see these videos, but Neuromod also showing less glowing reviews, actually makes the positive ones more believable. Obviously these are not staged, as was speculated about before. They are willing to show nuance, and a more real responds. It's not all, BUY THIS WE GUARANTEE IT WORKS. Also, we KNOW there's a group of 20% non-responders. This isn't new information! All we know is they are willing to paint a more nuanced picture!

Man, negativity is read into everything they put out, and people are quick to make irrational assumptions based on nothing.

Agreed. There are lots of irrational statements coming out in this thread. Internet.

I think that the results are going to be heavily nuanced and people are going to jump all over it.

 

[Autumnly]

I don't really see what is the problem with these videos, two are talking about a major improvement and the other three it helped dealing with tinnitus as well. Maybe it has to do with my expectations, I don't expect this device to get me rid of my tinnitus but to help with the volume and intensity.

But the two people talking about improvements didn't mention volume/loudness at all, one said his tinnitus didn't change at all and the other had tinnitus only for 4-5 months, so it could very well be natural improvement.

And being able to cope better mentally, though the tinnitus wasn't changed at all, is not a success story for me. You don't need to spend thousands of dollars on a device for that. If the tinnitus didn't change at all, that's not a success, that should be part of the 20% failure rate.

I'm still going to buy a device and test it out but these five videos didn't encourage me.

• Two people said their tinnitus didn't change but they can cope better mentally (not a success for me)
• Two people said they can hear it less but didn't mention loudness/volume (placebo?)
• One person had "major improvements" but he only had tinnitus for 4-5 months and didn't mention what he meant by it (natural improvement?)

 

[Paulmanlike]

What can also be speculated is, the older you are, the longer the tinnitus has been established, and the less reactive it may be - it may respond to a longer duration of treatment.

They've tested 1 hour a day for 12 weeks. One could assume the longer it's used, the more effective it is.

Of course this is speculation and it would be interesting to ask this question when the podcast is done with Richard Tyler.

 

[Drone Draper]

Man, negativity is read into everything they put out, and people are quick to make irrational assumptions based on nothing.

I agree. I think this is why Ross O'Neill made the point in the Q&A that they are weary of using the word "cure", because that sets expectations that are near impossible to meet for everyone who wants to get one of these.

 

[Agrajag364]

Agreed. There are lots of irrational statements coming out in this thread. Internet.

I think that the results are going to be heavily nuanced and people are going to jump all over it.

Or maybe some people are just a little bit cynical about success rates claimed for treatments, the experience being that they tend to be a lot lower than what is promoted, or even what is published, and lower than what we saw in the videos is not great.

However, having said that, Neuromod is a small company without the vicious marketing strategies of some of the healthcare giants and it is always possible that they just decided to present a very honest cross-section of outcomes rather than picking the best ones. TT user Clare B's outcome was better than most of the videos. I do think Neuromod came across rather well in the video Q&A.

 

[Tanni]

And being able to cope better mentally, though the tinnitus wasn't changed at all, is not a success story for me. You don't need to spend thousands of dollars on a device for that. If the tinnitus didn't change at all, that's not a success, that should be part of the 20% failure rate.

People who can habituate naturally won't need or want to use this device, but if it helps people who can't habituate, that's definitely a success story.

I was habituated to my tinnitus for a year and I honestly hardly ever thought about it. I would love to get back to that stage.

I know all of us want a cure, but they've never claimed that it will be a cure for everyone. However, I think it's a step towards one.

 

[Bob den Hartog]

I agree. I think this is why Ross O'Neill made the point in the Q&A that they are weary of using the word "cure", because that sets expectations that are near impossible to meet for everyone who wants to get one of these.

Also, if he uses the word 'cure', and people buy it and are not cured, they might sue him.

 

[Drone Draper]

Yup. In financial services in the UK, using strong statements in your marketing is a big no-no for this reason.

 

[SignalExec]

We have to be careful with these hidden videos. They might have been uploaded for a particular reason. For example, as example testimonials of less successful cases to be used during talks. I can easily see a presenter weave these into a presentation.

 

[Autumnly]

No one is complaining that this isn't a cure or that people weren't cured. They never mentioned their tinnitus actually changed, that's disappointing and underwhelming. And it's not a success. Coping better mentally as a result of using this device is not a success. If it was, we wouldn't need real treatments that actually reduce it. There were people who reported an actual reduction and I hope those are the people of the 80%, but someone saying they had "major improvements" but their tinnitus is the same is still part of the 20% failure rate for me.

 

[EDDTEKK]

You can discuss and talk what you want, but for me the situation changed dramatically. My hopes are gone.

I also know people who get almost cured by LLLT or other scam therapies. We need clinical and statistical improvement. At the moment it looks like 50% to 50% success rate - this is placebo level.

Habituation isn't any success in my opinion. I need loudness reduction!

Clare B could also have had a natural cure, she said after three months it got better but she wasn't sure if it was due to the device.

There are also people who take Vitamin B complex and report about a cure after three months.

 

[annV]

At the moment it looks like 50% to 50% success rate - this is placebo level.

50% success rate? You made a typo? 50% success rate would be significant, not placebo...

 

[PDodge]

Attention: All newbies reading, stay clear. Wait for results.

 

[Jack Straw]

When Clare B was still posting she did mention that it seemed the machine didn't work that well for older people with tinnitus. Perhaps there is a different mechanism that affects tinnitus as you age.

 

[AliceW]

All we can do is wait and test the device by ourselves once it is released... Every tinnitus is different... Perhaps the device works better for some types of tinnitus than others...

It would be great to have the real report from Neuromod!

 

[Jack Straw]

How is everyone forgetting that one of our own users, @kelpiemsp, has had his tinnitus significantly reduced due to bimodal stimulation? I know he wasn't using Neuromod, but one of the top people of his device is now working at Neuromod.

This type of treatment definitely works. It won't work for everyone, but for some it can be life changing.