My Posting Place

[Elmer B Fuddled]

Most here don't know me, I was an active member a while ago. I like to check in but I usually don't get involved in any of the threads. I felt I had to for this.

I have always had great experiences with @Markku on here. When I was still active on here we had a fair share of issues and drama, but because of Markku they were always dealt with fairly. He does what he does because of his heart. He cares about people very genuinely and that is obvious in his posts. There's about 10 times more bullshit for him to deal with.

His character is evidenced by his mountains of work. He stands on tens of thousands of hours working on Tinnitus Talk, because he cares about people, because he is one of those who used the fire in him in the right way. There was nothing like Tinnitus Talk when I first got tinnitus. Tinnitus Talk literally saved my life. I've seen first hand in group and team chats with Markku how clever he is. Any critique of his intellect or character is absurd.

@JohnAdams, you don't make an attempt to justify any of the claims made. I see you took some medical action in regards to tinnitus and I applaud you for that. I went for a clinical trial so I know how scary it is. I can also see your fire and passion. Let's just be sure a goal is actually being accomplished.

I'm seeing comments about people being uncomfortable posting because of the aggressive nature of some posts.
NO ONE SHOULD BE AFRAID OF POSTING HERE. So to whoever may be contributing to that, maybe self reflection is needed. I know things get contentious between people who believe you can habituate and those who believe you cannot. Both have a valid reason for coming to this place to try and connect with others who understand. I think this is the major point to get across to members on here. Sometimes you forget the other side is an actual human.

"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you."

-Friedrich W. Nietzsche-

Whatever fire this struggle sparked in you is only useful when targeted correctly. Otherwise its nature is to consume everything in until there's nothing left to destroy, and then finally burn out itself. Because if that's the case you are hurting people who are as scared and lost as you are. Fire can be powerful and effectuate great change when used as a tool.

"Truth is false in the mouths of certain people even when objectively true."

-Kierkegaard-

You have taken the words out of my mouth. I've read most posts on MPP and there's a lot of disrespect posted from JohnAdams. Is it ego or is it because this person can't truly deal with his tinnitus and is lashing at everyone to feel that he knows all?

Well you don't, we are all in the same ship, some may be better at habituating, some can't deal with it. That doesn't give this person the right to disrespect anyone on this forum. If you can't piss on the porch with the big dogs go lie in the field.

 

[Ed209]

I refrained from posting here after the announcement was made because no matter what I have written in recent times, I have always ended up receiving a lot of abuse and it's just not worth my time or energy. It can get really exhausting.

I echo what others have already eloquently said. This is primarily a support forum where the main ingredients should be love and compassion. Nobody wants to read through a load of fighting and arguing when they are in the depths of despair, however, I'm aware that passions can run high. @Markku has dedicated a huge portion of his life to this cause which I respect immensely, and @Hazel has also put in an incredible amount of time and energy which comes with a great deal of sacrifice. There are many others who help behind the scenes such as @Autumnly, @PeterPan, @Jack Straw, @glynis, @Liz Windsor, @TuxedoCat @Steve, @Candy, etc, who expect nothing in return, and I'm appreciative of every inch of their efforts as well as to all others who bring a calming and level-headed influence to the forum (there are just too many people to name).

@JohnAdams, I think you often go too far and sometimes just turn into an outright troll, but you have risked your own health by going to South Korea for which I have given you credit numerous times. I'm not entirely sure where your vendetta against me, in particular, stems from, but it's been going on for a long time now and I've tried my utmost to be respectful to you whilst you have tried your absolute best to be as horrible as possible to me in return. My comments in the Minbo Shim thread were never personal against you and I tried to make this clear numerous times but it was to no avail. My heart was in the right place; I just didn't want to see others risking their shirt and potentially their health with the sheer amount of red flags that were against his name. I sincerely respect your contribution by trying an experimental treatment and I'm not sure what else I can say. You have the capacity to be really helpful and kind to people and I have seen you demonstrate this.

I do not want to be put on a pedestal. I say this because my name can pop up in people's comments sometimes and it can give the impression that I like to be boastful or something, but nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, I often cringe at the thought of people believing that I think really highly of myself. If I have ever talked about any contribution I've made it's usually been in defence of my character when I feel I have been treated unfairly. The truth is that I am just an insignificant cog in the machine and come nowhere near to the contributions of others.

We are all sufferers here, otherwise, we wouldn't be members, so please remember that you never know what others are going through. We should all try to be kind. I know from my own experiences that the last thing you want to read are troll-like comments when you are going through hell. A nice comment, on the other hand, can really lift someone's day and it costs nothing.

 

[Jazzer]

Dear members of Tinnitus Talk,
a thing worth remembering about having tinnitus is this:
'We have all been 'Fucked' in the head.'

Some, obviously, worse than others.
Most of the time - remarkably - we seem to jog along okay.
We've all had our spats, arguments, disagreements, shout ups, occasionally embarked on guerrilla warfare for a while - but almost to a man, we come back.
Why ??
I'll tell you.
It is pretty well the only place where we can express ourselves, lead off, shout, scream about the injustice of it all, cry our eyes out, and look for love and support - without being thought of as mental cases.

I have to admit that I haven't been following the relevant disagreements re: JohnAdams highlighted by the management - I simply don't have the time.

He is so prolific!!
(Is he 'paid by the yard??')

But I am glad he is here.
We all clearly contribute something.

More particularly - I am glad 'Tinnitus Talk' is here.
Markku's brain-child has been important to most of us as a place to come to, time and again.

I would like to say 'thank you' to the management, and to all empathic members who contribute so much.

Dave x
Jazzer

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

Which medication lost funding?

Hough Ear Institute has a pill that regrows nerves and shows great promise for tinnitus but needs more funding for phase 2. They finished phase 1 in 2015. Money is the only thing stopping them.

I myself wanted to help Tinnitus Talk by working on promotional materials as that is my background... I got worse and have been struggling so I've laid off it, but even as I haven't exactly gotten better yet, I think I might be able to start working on something... The fact that we have something that can help within reach but just needs money can be a catalyst for investors and philanthropists...

 

[pinklights98]

@JohnAdams
Are you planning on trying Lenire? Your tinnitus, as you've stated, has faded to a low level so maybe it could knock it out completely.

 

[Ed209]

But when it comes to raging out at the very people who keep this forum running, and who are doing the most for the tinnitus community at large, then that's totally acceptable.

Lane, I've gotta admit that your typo here made me laugh.

 

[Samantha R]

@Markku and @Hazel,

Thanks for all you do, because you care about us and want to make a difference, for no financial reward.

I have nothing but respect for what you do and I think you are amazing.

You guys are also battling tinnitus, working your jobs and living your lives, but you still dedicate so much of your personal time to tinnitus and to Tinnitus Talk.

Sincerely, thank you both.

 

[Candy]

I echo that Tinnitus Talk needs to be a soft place to fall, where respectful disagreements are allowed to take place but nothing more. Nobody should feel under attack. It also puts people off and we all benefit from a bigger community in terms of being a bigger player and voice.

I've filled in a BTA survey which is telling me that tinnitus gets 40% less funding than anxiety or depression. We all know research funding is low.

We need more media attention and for stakeholders to sing from one sheet i.e. the level of funding is unacceptable. I recently saw an interview on endometriosis by their charity spokesperson and thought that we need someone to champion severe tinnitus sufferers (many of them) in the same way. Why don't we deserve that?

"Emma Cox, CEO of Endometriosis UK said: "This shocking new research is a stark reminder that both society and the NHS need to wake up and accept that endometriosis is a chronic condition that cannot be brushed under the carpet.

Endometriosis affects over 1.5 million women in the UK and the impact it can have on all aspects of a person's life – both physically and mentally - must be recognised. "

This is what our charities need to say about us.

How can we get media exposure this February and get the BTA to do some good media rather than the "there are strategies to cope" ...who is championing the severe sufferer?

@Hazel, I'm happy to draft an email to BTA about how to make the biggest impact this February in terms of interview content.

I also note that the BTA are always on the lookout for positive case stories as advertised on their site. All very well but how about the negative ones?

There is a point to those and it's to raise awareness and that's what campaign groups need to do.

I think Tinnitus Hub would have some great spokespersons for media, but how do we get there?

 

[Jack Straw]

I think they are not intellectually equipped to be running a forum like this. I have done a lot more than most members of this community in search of a cure, I have laid down my own flesh and blood. I have done far more than @Ed209, @Markku and @Hazel to try and find a cure and despite my failure to do so they have just continually disrespected me.
They act like @Ed209 is so special for the Danny Boy fund but he worked with the BTA, an organization that is woefully misguided and that is proved out by their "roadmap to a cure" that included tai chi as a potential cure, and Danny Boy was publicly opposed to them in the first place.

I'm not the one telling tinnitus patients to not avoid additional exposures. I'm not the one blaming patients for their own distress.

Do not delete this.

If you truly believe this you, you have gone full on disillusional.

In all seriousness, @Markku and @Hazel have done more for tinnitus than you will ever do in your life. I will even state that everyone that has worked for Tinnitus Talk or volunteered has done more for tinnitus than you will ever do in your entire life. Please for the love of god, do not bring up that fact that you paid a large sum of money to Dr. Shim for his "PRP treatment" and think this is your contribution to tinnitus. Blindly jumping at an untested and unregulated treatment is not only bold but also very stupid...

Every time you have the opportunity to publicly stand up and discuss tinnitus, such as on the Tinnitus Talk Podcast, go to a tinnitus event, or give money to something that will actually help, you sat back and did nothing. I offered you to come on the podcast to publicly discuss Dr. Shim and even invited Dr. Shim on to spread awareness about this potential treatment, and you turned that opportunity down.

Ranting on the forum about how random drugs in trials are the cure does NOTHING. Also, we don't know shit about these drugs until they have finished their testing phases, so screeching on and on about how "we need to get this drug out ASAP" and how the FDA is corrupt for not letting us test random drugs on ourselves, is tin hat material.

Being a keyboard warrior does NOTHING! You are literally the definition of a keyboard warrior. You rant and rave about stuff without actually acting. You think that you have a better insight into the biological and psychological aspects of tinnitus than literal PhDs in the field of tinnitus. I don't really see how this is possible or how college level biology classes can equate.

I am going to get to in trouble for my next statement, but the analogy is SO GOOD, that I am going to do it anyway.

I equate being a keyboard warrior to that of someone who prays to fix problems. A keyboard warrior just rants and talks on the forum and doesn't actually contribute to furthering the cause. This is like seeing someone stuck in a hole, and instead of going to help them you just pray that someone else will come along and help them and walk away. Ranting on the forums is effectively complaining about how someone else should be fixing the problem. This literally solves nothing!

The only person who doesn't contribute in a typical way (time or money directly to a tinnitus organization) who actually does something is @Contrast. He actually tries to call out scammers and spread the word far and wide about how they take advantage of people. He saw a problem, he did research and collected data, and then acted by trying to get the websites taken down and reporting them. This is his unique contribution to tinnitus and is actually a contribution. He is trying to help people from falling for scams that at the same time hurt tinnitus because they promote bogus "cures." He did something and didn't just rant on the forum.

I know after this post you are of course going to play your typical game of playing the victim when someone calls you out. You love to call people out and make a show of how bad they are, but then turn around and do exactly the same thing. You literally did this yesterday with @Ed209 when you quoted his posts without context trying to showing how mean he is. Then when @Ed209 said he was having a bad week and didn't need to deal with this harassment you responded:

Poor Ed.

A perfect example of how you play victim when eyes are on you, but when no one is looking you do exactly what you complain about. As a fellow Christian, I don't think this embodies the teachings of Christ. Do you?

If you truly want to make a difference, stop posting about it and do something.

I don't know how to end this rant so I will do so in my own shitty fashion with a meme.

 

[Fifth Business]

Found a video of @JohnAdams, curating his arsenal and preparing for war:

 

[jimH]

If I were asked which people on the forum I appreciated and respected the most for all they have done it would be @Markku and @Hazel. Additionally, I have a very high regard for @Ed209.

I've had tinnitus since 1978. So many years without a support group or forum. Feeling so isolated and alone while trying to be a good husband, father and work a demanding job. Perhaps that's why I appreciate Tinnitus Talk so very much.

I recently wrote a PM to @Markku regarding the upcoming Tinnitus Week in February. In it I concluded with the following:

"I just want you to know how grateful I was that I found Tinnitus Talk when my tinnitus and hyperacusis were at a catastrophic level in 2014! No longer feeling so isolated and alone with what I was dealing with. It really helped me to cope and get through that very challenging time!

I want to thank you so very much for all that you and Hazel have done in the past and are continuing to do to this day. I have such a tremendous respect and appreciation for you both!"

I don't respect anyone who criticizes either of them publicly. If you feel justified in complaining about something they did or did not do please show a little class by doing it privately!

 

[Ed209]

If I were asked which people on the forum I appreciated and respected the most for all they have done it would be @Markku and @Hazel. Additionally, I have a very high regard for @Ed209.

I've had tinnitus since 1978. So many years without a support group or forum. Feeling so isolated and alone while trying to be a good husband, father and work a demanding job. Perhaps that's why I appreciate Tinnitus Talk so very much.

I recently wrote a PM to @Markku regarding the upcoming Tinnitus Week in February. In it I concluded with the following:

"I just want you to know how grateful I was that I found Tinnitus Talk when my tinnitus and hyperacusis were at a catastrophic level in 2014! No longer feeling so isolated and alone with what I was dealing with. It really helped me to cope and get through that very challenging time!

I want to thank you so very much for all that you and Hazel have done in the past and are continuing to do to this day. I have such a tremendous respect and appreciation for you both!"

I don't respect anyone who criticizes either of them publicly. If you feel justified in complaining about something they did or did not do please show a little class by doing it privately!

Jim, you're a far better person than I will ever be. Whereas I can get drawn into pointless debates at times, that stuff is always way beneath you and you hold yourself with the kind of integrity that I aspire to achieve. Your generosity is so selfless and humble that it honestly takes my breath away. You are a true gent and someone that I look up to.

 

[Jack Straw]

 

[Chriscom]

I hope this thread can continue to turn away from, for example, a Hate John Adams forum, not least because John is a fellow-sufferer along with the rest of us, as unsupportable as I think his reaction to Hazel and Markku has been. This is part of what I mean when I say you can never expect exact mathematical justice here on Earth. Let's focus on more compassion please, all around. Me, I have 64 years of scores I'd love to settle, one obstacle being the legions that would like to settle their own scores against me. No matter how nice you think you are, they're out there! Also you're probably wrong about yourself.

At the risk of boring everyone I want to comment about the art of interviews, since I gather part of the dispute concerns untruthful things (Baseless optimism? Too high a regard for habituation?) said in a Tinnitus Talk interview. There are lots of ways to conduct interviews and it depends on the venue and the mission. My chief background is journalism and I've sat down with many officials, low and ever so high. I did not work for a muckraking tabloid but there is 100% a need for that in the world. Tinnitus Talk is not that place. If someone in the field told our hosts there was an international plot to kill all of us in our sleep I would expect them to push back (while possibly staying up later than usual). But this is not the kind of place that can demand anyone talk to them. Interview guests are essentially doing us a favor, with varying degrees of healthy and constructive self-interest. The best source of counterpoints in that case are other experts, research reports, and eventually evidence. No researcher who values their reputation and no company executive paid to focus on profits and stock prices is going to come here if Tinnitus Talk tried to prosecute its guests instead of listening to them. The interviews are tremendously helpful, and we certainly get the chance to poke holes here after the fact.

Peace peace peace.

 

[Watasha]

Hough Ear Institute has a pill that regrows nerves and shows great promise for tinnitus but needs more funding for phase 2. They finished phase 1 in 2015. Money is the only thing stopping them.

I myself wanted to help Tinnitus Talk by working on promotional materials as that is my background... I got worse and have been struggling so I've laid off it, but even as I haven't exactly gotten better yet, I think I might be able to start working on something... The fact that we have something that can help within reach but just needs money can be a catalyst for investors and philanthropists...

I'm sorry you are struggling. I am currently doing better than some of my worst times at the moment, but when I reflect back on barely making through each day, I would look at myself after a month or two and say, I'm still here, what time have I wasted during that time that I could have been productive.

All that to say, if you feel like you have something to offer, try it out a little bit if you think you can manage. I know we'd all be very appreciative.

 

[FGG]

I don't like the notion of this thread turning into, for example, a Hate John Adams forum, not least because John is a fellow-sufferer along with the rest of us, as unsupportable as I think his reaction to Hazel and Markku has been. This is part of what I mean when I say you can never expect exact mathematical justice here on Earth. Let's focus on more compassion please, all around. Me, I have 64 years of scores I'd love to settle, one obstacle being the legions that would like to settle their own scores against me. No matter how nice you think you are, they're out there! Also you're probably wrong about yourself.

At the risk of boring everyone I want to comment about the art of interviews, since I gather part of the dispute concerns untruthful things (Baseless optimism? Too high a regard for habituation?) said in a Tinntitus Talk interview. There are lots of ways to conduct interviews and it depends on the venue and the mission. My chief background is journalism and I've sat down with many officials, low and ever so high. I did not work for a muckraking tabloid but there is 100% a need for that in the world. Tinnitus Talk is not that place. If someone in the field told our hosts there was an international plot to kill all of us in our sleep I would expect them to push back (while possibly staying up later than usual). But this is not the kind of place that can demand anyone talk to them. Interview guests are essentially doing us a favor, with varying degrees of healthy and constructive self-interest. The best source of counterpoints in that case are other experts, research reports, and eventually evidence. No researcher who values their reputation and no company executive paid to focus on profits and stock prices is going to come here if Tinnitus Talk tried to prosecute its guests instead of listening to them. The interviews are tremendously helpful, and we certainly get the chance to poke holes here after the fact.

Peace peace peace

I agree with all of your points.

Adding to this (against my better judgement), I don't agree with @JohnAdams that the mods need to personally call out the "tinnitus is like a spider phobia" nonsense peddlers themselves. It's best to let all information get out there presented as neutrally as possible on the podcast and then allow later discussion to dismantle the arguments. Censoring of questionable ideas solves absolutely nothing imo. It's not the mods job to do that. The personal attacks on them were pretty ridiculous. They spend a lot of time on a place I would be truly lost without. I love the vast majority of everyone here whether I agree with them or not and I'm so very glad this place exists. The mods are directly to thank for that (so thank you from the bottom of my heart).

Is there any way to just move forward from this?

 

[david c]

As a community I don't think we should ever lose sight of the fact that our real opponents are:

1. The beneficiaries of the current current status quo for tinnitus in which millions of research funds have been spent on over 4000 studies on CBT and tinnitus - all finding out pretty much the same thing - thereby helping to ensure funds aren't available for other more innovative and more useful tinnitus research.

2. The tinnitus establishment (such as Derek Hoare) who tell you that avoiding loud noise exposure activities for tinnitus sufferers is "irrational" rather than a sensible precaution which can help your tinnitus from becoming worse.

 

[Autumnly]

The tinnitus establishment (such as Derek Hoare) who tell you that avoiding loud noise exposure activities for tinnitus sufferers is "irrational"

If you mean the post by JohnAdams, it's important to note that Hoare didn't say that. It's a quote from the European guideline. Hoare also worked on the recently published Cochrane review of CBT for tinnitus which concluded that "there is limited evidence for CBT for tinnitus improving anxiety, health‐related quality of life or negatively biased interpretations of tinnitus".

 

[david c]

If you mean the post by JohnAdams, it's important to note that Hoare didn't say that. It's a quote from the European guideline. Hoare also worked on the recently published Cochrane review of CBT for tinnitus which concluded that "there is limited evidence for CBT for tinnitus improving anxiety, health‐related quality of life or negatively biased interpretations of tinnitus".

I've read quite a few pieces by Hoare over the years and all of them have promoted what might be best regarded as the tinnitus establishment mindset - those who are current beneficiaries of the tinnitus status quo. The quote from the Cochrane review is one of the key pieces of evidence used by those who argue that CBT may justifiably be claimed as a tinnitus "treatment".

 

[Fifth Business]

As a community I don't think we should ever lose sight of the fact that our real opponents are:
2. The tinnitus establishment (such as Derek Hoare) who tell you that avoiding loud noise exposure activities for tinnitus sufferers is "irrational" rather than a sensible precaution which can help your tinnitus from becoming worse.

The hyper-avoidance, hyper-protection protocol a hive mind of about 100 people developed here (via posting) would, in fact, be seen as "irrational" and non-applicable by the disproportionate majority of people with tinnitus (the number is probably about a billion).

 

[david c]

The hyper-avoidance, hyper-protection protocol a hive mind of about 100 people developed here (via posting) would, in fact, be seen as "irrational" and non-applicable by the disproportionate majority of people with tinnitus (the number is probably about a billion).

I've no idea what you mean by "hyper-avoidance" - certainly not something I would advocate - nor indeed quite what is the basis of your claim to speak for the "disproportionate majority of people with tinnitus".

On the other hand I know personally of many tinnitus sufferers who regretted deeply believing the claims that avoiding very loud noise exposure events was "irrational" and had permanently worsened tinnitus as a result...

 

[Jack Straw]

I've no idea what you mean by "hyper-avoidance" - certainly not something I would advocate - nor indeed quite what is the basis of your claim to speak for the "disproportionate majority of people with tinnitus".

On the other hand I know personally of many tinnitus sufferers who regretted deeply believing the claims that avoiding very loud noise exposure events was "irrational" and had permanently worsened tinnitus as a result...

There is a difference between the phonophobia here and the people who completely disregard protecting their hearing. Anyone who completely disregards protecting their hearing is just as bad as people with phonophobia. The two extremes are bad, and unhealthy.

 

[IAmCalifornia]

The pieces have been said. Let us now focus on the real task at hand.

This is maybe a good opportunity to unite the passion here. We can all agree there's drama.

How about we all agree to donate shitloads of money at, for example, Dr. Shore, or Hough Ear Institute?

More than that, let's all agree at once to harass and dogpile rich people or influential people to fund something tangible.

Let's get real results...

 

[Fifth Business]

I've no idea what you mean by "hyper-avoidance"

Yeah man what could I possibly mean by this!

On the other hand I know personally of many tinnitus sufferers

Would bet money that you mean you read some posts. Posts from here.

 

[bobvann]

It's a shame. It's impossible for all of us to agree with each other. For example, Tinnitus Talk is not a pro habituation cult community where those who think not everyone can habituate are frowned upon.

Agreed I wasted over a year on one of those groups. Telling me it's my fault to not be able to get past the distorted thinking. To keep playing drums and live like I don't have tinnitus even though it created spikes from hell and it felt like I had cellophane wrap inside my ears. They drew these charts that said after 2 years your brain starts saying "What is going on" as one is catching on. Something is going on behind "the curtain" on the way to simply habituate and a bunch of other nonsense.

As far as anger I get that this crap fucks with our existence, robbing me of playing my instrument.

One thing I absolutely refuse to do, is to get into pissing matches on net forums. I took some back lash and it was turning into that. Hence why I parted ways. Im all for debating. I think it's healthy as long as it is done with respect.

 

[Ed209]

I've no idea what you mean by "hyper-avoidance" - certainly not something I would advocate - nor indeed quite what is the basis of your claim to speak for the "disproportionate majority of people with tinnitus".

On the other hand, I know personally of many tinnitus sufferers who regretted deeply believing the claims that avoiding very loud noise exposure events was "irrational" and had permanently worsened tinnitus as a result...

I would say hyper-avoidance falls into the category of when one can no longer function without earplugs and/or muffs, 24/7, to the point that their life is detrimentally affected. There are some who will not expose their ears to any sound and this is where a line is crossed and things can spiral very quickly. There is evidence that shows it can lead to hypersensitivity of the ears, hyperacusis, an increase in tinnitus, depression, anxiety, and many other problems.

Here's a link to a study which shows that these effects can take hold in a matter of days, so imagine how badly it can affect a person who is chronically protecting around the clock:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030645221930168X?via=ihub

Of course, there is also a common-sense side to this whereby people need to be very aware of dangerous levels of noise and safe exposure times. Earplugs are a must in certain environments and if a place gets too noisy, or there's a risk of it getting too noisy, then one must know the dangers and the risks involved. In other words, if a place is too loud, it is best to get the hell out of there! If something loud is passing by, like an ambulance, one should immediately put their fingers to their ears, etc. Having pain hyperacusis can muddy the waters here a little bit, so a little extra precaution is understandable in some circumstances.

Unfortunately, there are people who are trapped in a cycle of chronic over-protection who are using earplugs and muffs at all costs even whilst sitting at home where there is absolutely no risk of being exposed to dangerous levels of noise. I'm talking about double protecting around the clock here, to obsessive levels, and it's a lot more common than many realise.

 

[Watasha]

More than that, let's all agree at once to harass and dogpile rich people or influential people to fund something tangible.

Let's get real results...

This... civilly and organized... but more of this.

 

[Lane]

The only person who doesn't contribute in a typical way (time or money directly to a tinnitus organization) who actually does something is @Contrast. He actually tries to call out scammers and spread the word far and wide about how they take advantage of people.

There's a problem here however, and I think it's a big one: Contrast very often doesn't do his homework to accurately discern whether or not something is actually a scam. My recollection (he's on my ignore list for over a year now), is that anything that doesn't conform to traditional, conventional medicine is angrily decried as SCAM . Sort of like what the people do at the ridiculous website quackwatch. As I recall, some of his complaints against scams included acupuncture, various supplements, and other things.

I have a long history of addressing "unconventional" health issues (CFS & more), and I can say with certainty, that where conventional medicine usually had absolutely NOTHING to offer me, various so called "alternative" approaches--those vociferously criticized by Contrast--were literally life saving for me. When I would post about my positive experiences on other forums over the years, I would continually get the kind of treatment that Contrast so liberally dishes out on this forum. So it was an easy choice for me to put him on my ignore list.

I don't disagree that he's probably spot on regarding a number of scams that are out there, as I've seen plenty of them myself. But to so reflexively call out things he knows literally nothing about I believe is doing a disservice to this forum. And I might add, likely to himself as well.

 

[Barbara777]

This... civilly and organized... but more of this.

Which is exactly what @Ed209 suggested but then he was thrashed by @JohnAdams. John works against us, not for us, that is my impression.

 

[Jack Straw]

Yeah man what could I possibly mean by this!

Would bet money that you mean you read some posts. Posts from here.

You are fucking hilarious! I look forward to reading your future posts.

Being serious, not sarcastic.