My Posting Place

[Contrast]

CBT and neuro-transmitter based pain killers are the dominate treatment options because they are CHEAP. Governments and corporations are not choosing greedy options (addictive drugs that keep you sick), that's nonsense. They are choosing the cheapest options simply due to cost. Public biomedical R&D isn't taken seriously at all. Things like stem cells, tissue engineering research is insanely expensive. It's so much easier for pallative treatments to become an industry of their own simply due to economics.

 

[threefirefour]

I swear JohnAdams was the Cerberus keeping MPP dank.

 

[Jack Straw]

I swear JohnAdams was the Cerberus keeping MPP dank.

Damn that hurts...

 

[JulianBrumbelow]

 

[GlennS]

CBT and neuro-transmitter based pain killers are the dominate treatment options because they are CHEAP.

They dominate because the perception among most in the medical community is that it is simply impossible to cure tinnitus--and in lieu of a cure, you fall back on coping strategies. That aligns with my perception of tinnitus, that if it isn't impossible, it requires sci-fi levels of technology. Consider that the most likely vector for a cure will be a miracle drug that purports to regenerate hearing. That is moonshot stuff. It's not stuff that anyone should expect to just materialize on command. It's like, if it were only a matter of budget we'd have warp drive and flying cars by now. Some things are just beyond our ability.

 

[Contrast]

They dominate because the perception among most in the medical community is that it is simply impossible to cure tinnitus--and in lieu of a cure, you fall back on coping strategies. That aligns with my perception of tinnitus, that if it isn't impossible, it requires sci-fi levels of technology. Consider that the most likely vector for a cure will be a miracle drug that purports to regenerate hearing. That is moonshot stuff. It's not stuff that anyone should expect to just materialize on command. It's like, if it were only a matter of budget we'd have warp drive and flying cars by now. Some things are just beyond our ability.

I agree.

Medical science seems to only know how to fight infection/viral problems simply by working with the body's own immune system. It doesn't know jack shit about regenerative biology and shuns away from organ transplants or invasive surgeries (even if they are possible options).

Medical science in the 21st century is primitive. Before the patient even walks into the office they should already expect CBT and pain killers to be propagandized.

 

[threefirefour]

They dominate because the perception among most in the medical community is that it is simply impossible to cure tinnitus--and in lieu of a cure, you fall back on coping strategies. That aligns with my perception of tinnitus, that if it isn't impossible, it requires sci-fi levels of technology. Consider that the most likely vector for a cure will be a miracle drug that purports to regenerate hearing. That is moonshot stuff. It's not stuff that anyone should expect to just materialize on command. It's like, if it were only a matter of budget we'd have warp drive and flying cars by now. Some things are just beyond our ability.

Warp drive is physically impossible and we do have flying cars just not mass commercially available

 

[FGG]

Warp drive is physically impossible and we do have flying cars just not mass commercially available

Why do people act like regenerative medicine is impossible? Birds do it naturally but so do neonatal mice. The mice just lose that ability later which means the process is conserved in mammals (which we know bc embryonic humans can do it) but just needs to be reactivated. Studies are showing this is literally happening.

 

[GlennS]

Medical science in the 21st century is primitive.

I think you just find comfort in finding something outside of yourself to flog.

Why do people act like regenerative medicine is impossible?

It's moonshot territory. That doesn't mean nobody's working on it, but I think this layman attitude that you can just click your heels together and regrow a limb is naive.

 

[FGG]

It's moonshot territory. That doesn't mean nobody's working on it, but I think this layman attitude that you can just click your heels together and regrow a limb is naive.

No one is talking about regrowing a limb here but regrowing hair cells and restoring synapses are things being done right now.

 

[ajc]

No one is talking about regrowing a limb here but regrowing hair cells and restoring synapses are things being done right now.

I promise you it's going to be so so at best, some might recover a little hearing, others can get bad side effects and get worse. It's not going to give you a young adult's hearing and it doesn't necessarily cure tinnitus at all.

 

[HootOwl]

I promise you it's going to be so so at best, some might recover a little hearing, others can get bad side effects and get worse. It's not going to give you a young adult's hearing and it doesn't necessarily cure tinnitus at all.

What makes you think it will be so-so at best? Have you had a chance to look at Chen's Nature paper?

 

[FGG]

I promise you it's going to be so so at best, some might recover a little hearing, others can get bad side effects and get worse. It's not going to give you a young adult's hearing and it doesn't necessarily cure tinnitus at all.

You could be right but I asked both Kopke (in person) and Liberman (via email) if they thought there would be life changing therapies within 5 years and while both said they couldn't guarantee it they were "very optimistic" that would be the case. I think I will go on their judgement over yours.

 

[ajc]

You could be right but I asked both Kopke (in person) and Liberman (via email) if they thought there would be life changing therapies within 5 years and while both said they couldn't guarantee it they were "very optimistic" that would be the case. I think I will go on their judgement over yours.

Isn't it obviously in their interest to say that? I believe there will be life changing therapies within 20 years. By life changing I mean profound hearing loss being able to be reduced to severe or moderate.

 

[FGG]

Isn't it obviously in their interest to say that? I believe there will be life changing therapies within 20 years. By life changing I mean profound hearing loss being able to be reduced to severe or moderate.

To reiterate @HootOwl. Have you read Chen's paper? I have corresponded with him. He expects to have a therapy out within the decade and his approach can address the really severe/profound cases. Do you think he just wasn't being conservative enough?

Otonomy also has a drug OTO-6xx specifically for "severe to profound" loss in pre-clinicals. There is *so* much going on right now.

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

He is ushering in a new era of CHRISTIAN SCIENCE that refutes that materialist atheistic world view.

You believe in God now?

 

[ajc]

To reiterate @HootOwl. Have you read Chen's paper? I have corresponded with him. He expects to have a therapy out within the decade and his approach can address the really severe/profound cases. Do you think he just wasn't being conservative enough?

Otonomy also has a drug OTO-6xx specifically for "severe to profound" loss in pre-clinicals. There is *so* much going on right now.

Did you know there's no consensus if chronic tinnitus will be tamed after hearing is restored? Some researchers believe tinnitus is ingrained in the brain after a while... even if you restore hearing tinnitus is going to stay. I'll read the paper.

 

[FGG]

Did you know there's no consensus if chronic tinnitus will be tamed after hearing is restored? Some researchers believe tinnitus is ingrained in the brain after a while... even if you restore hearing tinnitus is going to stay. I'll read the paper.

I have heard that argument and I don't understand why neuroplasticity would only work one way. To add to that, here is a study with cochlear implants and tinnitus:

"Statistical analysis revealed a significant reduction in tinnitus intensity in patients using cochlear implants, with 35 of 38 patients (92%) experiencing a reduction in tinnitus intensity. All multichannel implants studied afforded similar degrees of tinnitus suppression. The degree of tinnitus reduction was not correlated with speech recognition, as measured by CID Everyday Sentence scores. Female patients had significantly greater degrees of tinnitus before implantation, but both male and female patients demonstrated similar levels of tinnitus after implantation. No patient experienced greater levels of tinnitus after implantation."

Keep in mind that cochlear implants are nowhere near as good as natural hearing. I think there is way more evidence that neuroplasticity doesn't just happen once, otherwise mirror therapy wouldn't work for phantom limb.

 

[ajc]

To add to that, here is a study with cochlear implants and tinnitus:

Same how hearing aids help lower tinnitus for some. More ambient sound coming in helps... right? I want to believe you are right but sometimes your positivity feels it's tainted by hope.

@threefirefour you know a lot more than me, do you think FGG is right?

 

[threefirefour]

Same how hearing aids help lower tinnitus for some. More ambient sound coming in helps... right? I want to believe you are right but sometimes your positivity feels it's tainted by hope.

@threefirefour you know a lot more than me, do you think FGG is right?

You both have a point, curing hearing loss may not cure tinnitus in all cases, but it will definitely help.

 

[FGG]

Same how hearing aids help lower tinnitus for some. More ambient sound coming in helps... right? I want to believe you are right but sometimes your positivity feels it's tainted by hope.

@threefirefour you know a lot more than me, do you think FGG is right?

Well if it helps, I'm not "positive" about everything . I have big reservations about Audion/Regain and OTO-303. I'm also not as convinced the Hough Pill will work as well in more chronic cases.

 

[Pawel1]

Give me some pills that will stop my tinnitus from worsening, and I won't even need a cure or further treatment...

Anyway, with the big amount of clinical trials being done about hearing loss and tinnitus, I think it's irrational to be skeptic, unless you are unwilling to wait for the trial results, etc.

 

[Born To Slay]

Hey guys, does anyone know if a Tegretol overdose is fatal? I have a whole bottle of it, 30 day supply of 400mg per day (so I guess 60x 200mg pills). Do you guys think it would kill me if I swallowed it all and was left alone for the night?

 

[Contrast]

You believe in God now?

certainly not the christian,muslim God or anything supernatural.

But I've always wondered if biology and consciousnesses has more to do with the properties universe rather then just being a random accident of physics and chemistry like all the atheist imply. I don't think physics, chemistry, natural selection and random mutation alone can explain the overwhelming complexity of life. I think atheist are being stubborn by ignoring observations in quantum physics but i don't blame them because they have to constantly put up with debunking woo.

If God exist as some universal consciousnesses that doesn't mean there would be miracles, an ultimate meaning or an afterlife.

 

[Contrast]

Scientist are finding more and more planets that have gravitation similar to Earth and even ones within habitable zones.

https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/earth-planets-may-be-common-cosmos-study-says-ncna1070161
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_potentially_habitable_exoplanets


Atheism would be a difficult position to hold if the formation of biological organisms happened to be a common thing and not just a freak accident. However it's too early to tell. But if life was a common occurrence in the Universe it would imply that the Universe itself is consciousnesses and trying to create living things.

However this could be completely wrong and perhaps the Universe is just a random accident of physics and chemistry.

 

[Artemis2K]

Scientist are finding more and more planets that have gravitation similar to Earth and even ones within habitable zones.
View attachment 34716
https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/earth-planets-may-be-common-cosmos-study-says-ncna1070161
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_potentially_habitable_exoplanets


Atheism would be a difficult position to hold if the formation of biological organisms happened to be a common thing and not just a freak accident. However it's too early to tell. But if life was a common occurrence in the Universe it would imply that the Universe itself is consciousnesses and trying to create living things.

However this could be completely wrong and perhaps the Universe is just a random accident of physics and chemistry.

The universe is large. We're not even sure if multiverse theory is a thing. I think that other lifeforms existing in the universe is very likely because of how vast yet random (yet organized) it is. However, I am not sure I'd conclude there must be an afterlife based on that. A lot of things can happen in such an infinite space.

 

[Jazzer]

Nobody knows, or can know, of the existence of god.

Nobody has died and come back - unless you swallow the gospel story hook, line and sinker.
Nobody knows who wrote the gospels - certainly not Matthew Mark Luke and John.
They are not Hebrew names.

Those stories can only have been an oral history until AD 70, when Mark's gospel is believed to have been written.
They were almost certainly not written by eye witnesses.
So we cannot know the authenticity of the bible.
Added to that, the bible has been edited and rewritten countless times.
Given that the real evidence is so scant, our doubts are perfectly logical, unavoidable even.
Living in doubt is perfectly normal.
The only logical stance is agnosticism.

Now if dear old JohnAdams was still here he would have something to say about all this.

 

[Ed209]

No one is talking about regrowing a limb here but regrowing hair cells and restoring synapses are things being done right now.

One of the most important questions is whether these dormant progenitor cells within the cochlea can generate new hair cells and synapses that the brain will recognise and have a coherent working relationship with. In other words, will the new hair cells and synapses respond and react in the same way as normal hair cells considering they haven't been mapped to the brain yet? Maybe the brain will interpret the new synaptic connections as static, like connecting a blu ray player to a TV with a faulty cable.

The neurological implications are far from known at the moment, hence we are still in the testing stages. I truly hope this is the breakthrough we all wish to see, but until we see more data and understand more about it, we have no idea. We also have no idea if successfully restoring hearing is enough to reverse the maladaptive plasticity that allowed tinnitus to become a perception in the first place. It may be the case that it helps some, but not others.

 

[FGG]

One of the most important questions is whether these dormant progenitor cells within the cochlea can generate new hair cells and synapses that the brain will recognise and have a coherent working relationship with. In other words, will the new hair cells and synapses respond and react in the same way as normal hair cells considering they haven't been mapped to the brain yet? Maybe the brain will interpret the new synaptic connections as static, like connecting a blu ray player to a TV with a faulty cable.

The neurological implications are far from known at the moment, hence we are still in the testing stages. I truly hope this is the breakthrough we all wish to see, but until we see more data and understand more about it, we have no idea. We also have no idea if successfully restoring hearing is enough to reverse the maladaptive plasticity that allowed tinnitus to become a perception in the first place. It may be the case that it helps some, but not others.

At least with hair cells, the word score increases after FX-322 show that the brain is not interpreting it as "static" but useful sound that the brain can perceive.

As far as synaptopathy drugs, a rep from Pipeline told me that they saw an "improvement in hearing function as measuredby ABR threshold and wave 1 in animals who had hearing loss-induced by either noise or aminoglycoside". He also said the connections looked histiologically the same as natural connections.

So we have a ton of evidence these are connections the brain recognizes.

I'm not at all a believer that plasticity gets "stuck" in one direction. I think adaptation and readaptation are what the brain does. It's not an on/off switch.

The nice thing is I believe we will have a ton more evidence of this soon.

 

[Ed209]

At least with hair cells, the word score increases after FX-322 show that the brain is not interpreting it as "static" but useful sound that the brain can perceive.

As far as synaptopathy drugs, a rep from Pipeline told me that they saw an "improvement in hearing function as measuredby ABR threshold and wave 1 in animals who had hearing loss-induced by either noise or aminoglycoside". He also said the connections looked histiologically the same as natural connections.

So we have a ton of evidence these are connections the brain recognizes.

I'm not at all a believer that plasticity gets "stuck" in one direction. I think adaptation and readaptation are what the brain does. It's not an on/off switch.

The nice thing is I believe we will have a ton more evidence of this soon.

I don't disagree with you, but I think we should wait and learn more about the bigger picture before we get carried away as the data pool is tiny. Loads of drugs are extremely promising until they fail. I'm by no means saying FX-322 is going to fail, but I try not to get carried away on either end of the spectrum. At the moment, it's a wait and see scenario.

We'll know a lot more once the data from phase 2a has been analysed and released, possibly towards the end of this year or maybe next. I don't think it's wise to be convinced of what this drug can do at this early stage. Let the hype commence once it smashes phase 3.

I've invested in many sure-things that have failed in the past and this includes biomedical shares. That's why, for me at least, I'll only become emotionally involved once it's clinically proven to help tinnitus and/or hyperacusis. Until then, it's all about following the research with a neutral mindset.