My Trip to Bangkok: Stem Cell Treatment [Comments]

This is an article that sheds another light on some stem cell clinics.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1600188?query=TOC
It is not my intention to put anything down, but at the moment I believe it is almost impossible to be certain there are no risks involved in stem cell therapies conducted by non regulated commercial stem cell clinics.
 
Hmm. I wonder why is this always older people.
I do not understand your question. Are you referring to the 66 year old man in the article?
Older people have had a longer time to "acquire" a condition.
I would be surprised if what happened to the man during the stem cell therapy is age related.
 
I do not understand your question. Are you referring to the 66 year old man in the article?
Older people have had a longer time to "acquire" a condition.
I would be surprised if what happened to the man during the stem cell therapy is age related.

Yes. I have read a couple of stem cell horror stories in the forum that always happened to older people. I just read yesterday that 75 y/o woman died after stem cell therapy.
 
OK. I understand what you mean.
Most likely more "older" people will undergo stem cell therapies, but if a stem cell therapy goes wrong, age will not make you immune. Perhaps more resilient.
 
I contacted US stem cell clinc
This is the response:
Thank you for contacting us regarding stem cell treatment. Whether we could treat tinnitus would depend on the cause. If this is a neurologic issue, this would be an intrathecal delivery. If there is a systemic cause, we would give the stem cells by IV. I would be happy to discuss your case with you further if you could provide more details.

Sincerely,
 
I contacted US stem cell clinc
This is the response:
Thank you for contacting us regarding stem cell treatment. Whether we could treat tinnitus would depend on the cause. If this is a neurologic issue, this would be an intrathecal delivery. If there is a systemic cause, we would give the stem cells by IV. I would be happy to discuss your case with you further if you could provide more details.

Sincerely,

Wait. Aren't all of the tinnitus cases neurologic issue indeed?
 
I contacted US stem cell clinc
This is the response:
Thank you for contacting us regarding stem cell treatment. Whether we could treat tinnitus would depend on the cause. If this is a neurologic issue, this would be an intrathecal delivery. If there is a systemic cause, we would give the stem cells by IV. I would be happy to discuss your case with you further if you could provide more details.

Sincerely,

@Stakovic can you share with us which clinic this is? I am looking for a clinic in the US and so far the ones I have contacted don't treat Tinnitus yet.
 
@Reinier @exodus

The research papers that I've studied so far all said that embryonic / fetal stem cell are highly cancerous. The links you posted said that the 66-year old man received such stem cells. Therefore I'm not that surprised about the tumor growth. MSC stem cells, unlike fetal or embryonic cells, cannot differentiate into any other human cell. MSC cells only differentiate into certain cell types. Therefore the risk of cancer is much lower. I don't know how high it is for sure. This is also referred to as paracrine signalling

Researchers are currently looking into the mechanism of action of stem cells. Some found that stem cells unfold their healing power not by replacing body cells but by giving off other substances such as cytokines and/or growth factors that allow cells in the body to regenerate / repair themselves. It's also referred to as paracrine signalling.
 
The links you posted said that the 66-year old man received such stem cells. Therefore I'm not that surprised about the tumor growth.
I did not realise it was cancer the unfortunate man got after reading this part:
The lesion had some features that overlapped with malignant gliomas (nuclear atypia, a high proliferation index, glial differentiation, and vascular proliferation) but did not show other features typical of cancer (no cancer-associated genetic aberrations were detected on next-generation sequencing of 309 cancer-associated genes [see the Supplementary Appendix]). Thus, although the lesion may be a considered a neoplasm (i.e., a "new growth"), it could not be assigned to any category of previously described human neoplasm on the basis of the data we gathered.
End quote.
I would like to point out is that I do not have any medical knowledge. Therefore I appreciate the discussion and more insight is always welcome.
Researchers are currently looking into the mechanism of action of stem cells. Some found that stem cells unfold their healing power not by replacing body cells but by giving off other substances such as cytokines and/or growth factors that allow cells in the body to regenerate / repair themselves. It's also referred to as paracrine signalling.
This is what I find intriguing. Apparently so much about stem cells and related mechanisms is still unknown that it still can surprise researchers (in a positive way).
 
You're right, the article said they become tumorous, not cancerous. Basically I take away from it that embryonic stem cells are so potent that they can grow into a bunch of shit you don't actually want to have. That's why I don't get how a clinic got the idea to inject embryonic cells into an adult human being. And it shows that anyone considering stem cell therapy is well advised to do their own research.

And yeah, I find that it's taking me a very long time until I begin understanding bits and pieces of the whole stem cells thing.
 
WE have tinnitus for a specific, possibly undetermined cause, which might not have anything to do with our hearing. Or we have large dips in the frequencies above 12K which our brain tries to compensate by inducing tinnitus while other people's brain is just wired in a different way and doesn't care about tinnitus at all.
Hearing loss cannot be the reason. It rather seems to be a possible comorbidity. I suspect a tiny ganglion pressing on the cochlea could be the reason for my high frequency T. It would explain why it alters so much with jaw clenching. But it's just a guess...
 
Response from stem cell 21

" We will be giving you special price of 13,500 USD fpr the Adipose Cell Therapy below:

ADIPOSE SVF PACKAGE

Initial Treatment Period: 7-10 days
Price: $15,000 USD

1x Comprehensive health check up
1x Mini-liposuction to obtain adipose tissue 1
Stem Cell Laboratory processing
2x IV infusions of SVF cells
2x Local injections to both ears
6x IV medical laser cell stimulation
6x Tissue medical laser cell stimulation to both ears
6x IV oxygen therapy
6x Peptide/growth factors injections
1month Enzyme injection set
1 month Take home 1 month nutrition & hormone set
 
Nah, I don't think so; I think that HL is one of two causal factors. That is, a requirement, not just a comorbidity.
All I'm saying is, that HL doesn't need to cause T, so maybe there is a different root cause responsible for both T and HL. Or maybe there need to be different factors additional to HL to cause T.
But for sure HL makes T less maskable by ambient noises and in this way more severe or noticeable.
 
All I'm saying is, that HL doesn't need to cause T
right, and I'm saying I don't agree, because the current neurophysiological model of tinnitus revolves around maladaptive neuroplastic changes following input loss to the auditory nerve... and this has been pretty well established in animal models, along with reliable neurological correlates that can be shown on imaging studies.

Check out that video...
 
I doubt that, taking the various reasons into account which members on tt think to be the origin for their t, or members who claim to have a good hearing.
well, it's all a matter of opinion, so we can believe whatever we want! I choose to agree with the sizeable number of professional neurologists, otologists and audiologists who believe that hearing loss is the fundamental tinnitus trigger, based on decades of repeated research and imaging studies.

People subjectively thinking they have "good hearing" is meaningless, as are pure tone audiometry tests which generally only go up to 8 khz. Speaking personally my hearing looks just about perfect on a standard test, but if you test me up in the high frequencies where my tinnitus is, there's a clear notch on one side where my tinnitus is worse...
 
As I already went to Stem Cells 21, I do not really feel the need to hear about your experience as such. I do however have a question for you: could you please tell me where the toilets are located at the clinic of stem cells 21?


Thanks for the warning. It would, however, carry a little more weight if it had come from someone with a bit more credibility in their rucksack - here is what you posted a little while back (in a post that has since been removed apparently, but, my all seeing eye was there to immortalize the event):

View attachment 10668
Thanks. I really don't like how harsh you are to users on here. I'm happy you took the risk of getting a non-FDA approved stem cell therapy session(s) done. There is no need to have such an egotistical manner on this forum though.
 
well, it's all a matter of opinion, so we can believe whatever we want!
Unfortunately this is true until science has better imaging technologies. ;)
If we could trace behavior of every single nerve simultaneously, this ridlle and many others would be solved immediately. Maybe technological singularity brings us there...
 
Stem cells would be better at repairing nerves, nerve damage causes those really crazy noises like changing frequencies and birds and vibrating fluctuating tinnitus without hearing loss.
 
Thanks. I really don't like how harsh you are to users on here. I'm happy you took the risk of getting a non-FDA approved stem cell therapy session(s) done. There is no need to have such an egotistical manner on this forum though.
No need to thank me. I think the point is that we have a member (@Orea) who claims to have been treated at the clinic of Stem Cells 21 and suspects that her cancer stems from that. I am not going to spend too much time on this but, I suspect this person never set her foot in the clinic of Stem Cells 21 (that's why I was wondering if she could tell me where the toilets are located at SC21).

Providing information is the easiest thing in the world. Anyone can do it. But how do you know if it is true? And if it isn't true, then what are the consequences? If we lived in a world where everyone could do nothing but tell the truth, things would be pretty straightforward. The minute you introduce the dilemma of falsehoods into the equation (because some people lie), knowing if something is true - or not - becomes more important than the information itself.

So returning to this specific case: either TT-member Orea was treated at Stem Cells 21, or, she wasn't (a pretty simple binary situation). If she wasn't (but says she was) and another person reads that as a fact (i.e. believes she developed cancer), then I would say that is a pretty serious moral problem to cause other people. Actually, it is pretty evil. This is also the reason why I am without a doubt the biggest contributor this board has ever had: not only have I in the past provided this board with tons of information, but, I have also provided evidence that what I provide in terms of information (incl. my own stem cell treatment) is true.

Speaking of providing information - not to mention providing accurate information, I could also not help notice your own little faux pas:
None of the stem cell clinics available to the public will correct the damage you have. I'm sorry but there is just no way the stem cells they use and the methods they use will allow that. The studies put on at Japan's Kyoto University displayed that the differentiated stem cells need to be transplanted onto the damaged areas (glial scars) and even by doing so did not fully heal what auditory functions were damaged between the inner ear and the brain. There is no way stem cells from these non-FDA approved clinics will allow any sort of repair by injecting these cells through an iv and into your blood stream. I'm sure it could work for other situations, but there's just no way even if they do pass the blood-brain barrier.
The study you are referring to...

"Cells transplanted onto the surface of the glial scar reveal hidden potential for functional neural regeneration"

...presents a comparison between two alternatives (intraneural vs. surface transplantation). How you arrive at the conclusion that that excludes the viability of a 3rd treatment option (e.g. IV, LP, or intratympanic) for hearing disorders is something I leave you to explain the rationale behind. What I will discretely mention here in this regard, however, is that there is a study at the Florida Hospital for Children (which I have previously mentioned elsewhere). Publication of results is due in early 2017. If I had been you, I would probably have approached the situation more strategically and awaited those results before making a blanket statement. Here was one interesting outcome because of what you stated:
DO NOT GO TO STEM CELLS 21

NICK PYZIK EXPLAINS BELOW WHY IT'S A SCAM


Indeed, after having spent some almost three years on a public tinnitus board, one member did rather accurately sum up my impressions of that stay here:
You're right. This site is full of blind optimism, false hope and lies. Even those not on the forum who have tinnitus just "habituate" to it - and "habituation" means that they still have the same agonizing tinnitus, but are trying to live - albeit at a far lesser quality of life than before. How else are we supposed to keep ourselves alive? I'm personally 100% disabled by this.

No doubt my faithful little lap dog (@Michael2013) will give me another "hug" after seeing this message of mine:

upload_2016-6-30_16-49-45.png


When I posted my previous message after being absent from the board for two months straight, I felt like being stalked as it turned out he also not had not posted for a long-ish while. But the minute I make a post, I get my hug. Feels like he is hiding in the bushes. Super creepy. Yikes. Time to leave...
 
Indeed, after having spent some almost three years on a public tinnitus board, one member did rather accurately sum up my impressions of that stay here:

First off, that "hug" thing is kind of creepy haha

I do want to say one thing though, and that's that, although I do believe that sites like this are rife with constant repetition of optimistic mantras, they also serve the purpose of being great places for the dissemination of information about tinnitus.
 
I keep being surprised by some articles I read regarding stem cells.
I used to read that stem cells injected in the bloodstream will not reach the cochlea. Or at least a very small number of stem cells reach the cochlea. After reading this article perhaps this is not necessarily so?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/311333.php
 

Log in or register to get the full forum benefits!

Register

Register on Tinnitus Talk for free!

Register Now