My Trip to Bangkok: Stem Cell Treatment [Comments]

[Bobby B]

btw what does the clinic has to do with Switzerland ?
Looks more like Soviet Medica for hard core tinnitus reform from the looks

 

[cantbelieveit]

I think he also did in Bangkok in same clinic. BTW, I got email from stemcells21 today telling me that they can't accept me in the future as their client if I go to Swiss Medica )

thanks for your informative posts. did stemcells21 say why you could not be their client in the future?

 

[whiskeykonteq]

btw what does the clinic has to do with Switzerland ?
Looks more like Soviet Medica for hard core tinnitus reform from the looks

HQ is in Switzerland and that is place where they are finding clients and then shipping them to either Belgrade or Moscow where you can do stem cells

 

[whiskeykonteq]

thanks for your informative posts. did stemcells21 say why you could not be their client in the future?

No, and I did not asked - just thanked them I guess it's all about money (and ain't a damn thing funny)

 

[cantbelieveit]

No, and I did not asked - just thanked them I guess it's all about money (and ain't a damn thing funny)

i wouldn't know the reason. perhaps it is for safety reasons/concerns ie. if you receive stem cells from a clinic or via a procedure which may (or may not) be safe and you then receive stem cells from another clinic later on, then it can be difficult to prove who is at fault (should there be complications later on in the future).

personally, i would not have donated stem cells from a facility in russia (but that's just my prejudice - nothing specific). don't swiss medica have facilities in switzerland also?

thanks.

 

[whiskeykonteq]

i wouldn't know the reason. perhaps it is for safety reasons/concerns ie. if you receive stem cells from a clinic or via a procedure which may (or may not) be safe and you then receive stem cells from another clinic later on, then it can be difficult to prove who is at fault (should there be complications later on in the future).

personally, i would not have donated stem cells from a facility in russia (but that's just my prejudice - nothing specific). don't swiss medica have facilities in switzerland also?

thanks.

Well ... I would rater have stem cells donated and processed by the nation that sent first man in space, than by e.g. Thais Also only to enroll in Soviet state university (let alone to finish it) is tremendous effort - I know that because in ex Yugoslavia we had same education organization as CCCP and I'm old enough to remember . And speaking about human errors - they happen all the time - for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Überlingen_mid-air_collision when Swiss air traffic control made mistake and killed ~ 70 Russian children in mid air collision of Russian charter flight and DHL flight. So, unfortunately there is not much that can save you from human errors - regardless where you go

Cheers

 

[Pleasure_Paulie]

Well ... I would rater have stem cells donated and processed by the nation that sent first man in space.

Can I ask, in your own research what was the reason you decided against the Stemcells 21 Clinic? According to everything ATEOS wrote, they seemed to really be a start of the art clinic and do things such as injections into the local area and use of peptides.

PS. There aren't nothing wrong with Russia, guys Whiskeykonteq looks to be taken care of so far!

 

[whiskeykonteq]

Can I ask, in your own research what was the reason you decided against the Stemcells 21 Clinic? According to everything ATEOS wrote, they seemed to really be a start of the art clinic and do things such as injections into the local area and use of peptides.

PS. There aren't nothing wrong with Russia, guys Whiskeykonteq looks to be taken care of so far!

stemcells21 asked 30k USD for 60M UCB-MSCs while Swiss medica would give 50M UCB-MSCs, 250M UC-MSCs, 600M autologous Ad-MSCs and I guess 20M BM-MSCs for 24300 USD. Also I found this article http://www.whitchurchherald.co.uk/n...man-on-his-stem-cell-treatment-in-moscow.aspx and many other testimonials from their patients on youtube. That means that they probably deal with live / healthy cells.
Also when I talked with stemcells21 they main selling pitch could be summarized in "you will have great accommodation", while when I talked with swiss medica they did not even mentioned accommodation and focus was on therapy. I don't need great 5 stars accommodation - I just need therapy that will work Also Swiss medica was less sales - more 'humane" - for example in stemcells21 you pay for number of cells, while in swiss medica they told me that I will get 5-7 M of cells per kg of body weight for 24300 USD, which is exactly what research on animals is showing to be effective, and what clinical trial "Safety of Autologous Stem Cell Infusion for Children With Acquired Hearing Loss" is also stating "The minimum acceptable dose will be 6x10 6th mononuclear cells/kilogram body weight"
So all in all, Swiss medica was better choice I think (even if you forget about money).

Also, I don't need visa for Russia (and I need it for Thailand) :-p

edit: Also one more thing - in stem cells21 you get steroids to suppress immune system so that stem cells that you get from donation are not immediately killed. In Swiss medica they try to match my HLA (Human Leucocyte Antigen) with donor's and no steroids are given. I see this as advantage - especially if stem cells treatment is seen as anti-inflammatory / immuono-regulation procedure.
Regarding peptides - no other stem cells clinic that I talked to ever mentioned that ... so either stemcells21 knows something that others do not know or it's sales pitch

Cheers

 

[Pleasure_Paulie]

Regarding peptides - no other stem cells clinic that I talked to ever mentioned that ... so either stemcells21 knows something that others do not know or it's sales pitch

I really appreciate your response. It was very detailed, and I can see why you chose Swiss. Regarding other clinics, what were they?

 

[whiskeykonteq]

I really appreciate your response. It was very detailed, and I can see why you chose Swiss. Regarding other clinics, what were they?

I was researching together with one member of this forum that approached me and asked to double efforts in search for stem cell clinic. So here is (more or less common) list:

- stemcelltreatments.in (lack of communication)
- stemcells21 (read above posts
- cellmedicine.com (Panama - they are really good - owner is Neil Riordan - but they did not accepted me)
- neurogenbsi.com
- regenmedicalpc.com (accepted but I dropped them due to lack of communication from their side)
- giostar.com (accepted but I dropped them due to lack of communication from their side)
- tonsoncenter.com (no answer)
- macquariestemcells.com (only autologous)
- jbiostar.com (no answer)
- gemclinic.ru (I was rejected)
- euromedic-care.com (no answer / lack of communication)
- cryocord.com.my (they said that hey don't have experience with hearing loss)
- cellugen.in (accepted but I dropped them due to lack of communication from their side)
- emcell.com (found somewhere on hearing loss forum that some of their patients got hepatitis C)
- unistembiosciences.com
- rnl.co.kr (the do not exist anymore)

 

[Pleasure_Paulie]

- stemcelltreatments.in (lack of communication)
- stemcells21 (read above posts
- cellmedicine.com (Panama - they are really good - owner is Neil Riordan - but they did not accepted me)
- neurogenbsi.com
- regenmedicalpc.com (accepted but I dropped them due to lack of communication from their side)
- giostar.com (accepted but I dropped them due to lack of communication from their side)
- tonsoncenter.com (no answer)
- macquariestemcells.com (only autologous)
- jbiostar.com (no answer)
- gemclinic.ru (I was rejected)
- euromedic-care.com (no answer / lack of communication)
- cryocord.com.my (they said that hey don't have experience with hearing loss)
- cellugen.in (accepted but I dropped them due to lack of communication from their side)
- emcell.com (found somewhere on hearing loss forum that some of their patients got hepatitis C)
- unistembiosciences.com
- rnl.co.kr (the do not exist anymore)

All valuable information for the members. Was the cost more or less similar for most of them?

PS. I thank you for your contribution to this forum. Its people like you who gives us hope.

 

[whiskeykonteq]

All valuable information for the members. Was the cost more or less similar for most of them?

PS. I thank you for your contribution to this forum. Its people like you who gives us hope.

Yes, cost more or less similar, with exception of India stem cells clinics where the price was significantly cheaper compared to other places.
no worries - just trying to help Also, I strongly believe in opensource and knowledge sharing - hence these updates

 

[Ears Hurt]

@whiskeykonteq How are you feeling?

 

[whiskeykonteq]

@whiskeykonteq How are you feeling?

So next update I have received today 4 bottles of nutrients, 2 injections in buttocks of something to increase circulation and RNA medications (whatever that is ), followed by IV injection of 110M UC-MSCs. I feel good - normal pulse, pressure and temperature. They will be checking all this latter this evening.
As far as tinnitus goes - no changes.
Also, they told me 20 mins ago, that tomorrow they will take me to ENT tomorrow. We will see how it goes, but for now, I'm really satisfied. They try hard to help me, and not just to sell stem cells ;-)

Cheers

 

[Ears Hurt]

@whiskeykonteq Best of luck on improving! We are all pulling for you.

 

[Vincent R]

stemcells21 asked 30k USD for 60M UCB-MSCs while Swiss medica would give 50M UCB-MSCs, 250M UC-MSCs, 600M autologous Ad-MSCs and I guess 20M BM-MSCs for 24300 USD.

I fail to understand the difference between different kind of stem cells, but I assume that UCB-MSC are the donated ones, that should be most effective. So in terms of raw therapy power Stemcells21 and Swiss Medica looks fairly equal, at least to me as an amateur. 50M of the strongest kind doesn't seem like a small amount, and maybe it makes sense to try many different sorts of stem cells while you're at it. So the core difference should be the price, approximately 5K USD which is a lot.

Also I found this article http://www.whitchurchherald.co.uk/n...man-on-his-stem-cell-treatment-in-moscow.aspx and many other testimonials from their patients on youtube. That means that they probably deal with live / healthy cells.

Yeah, probably. I don't know to what extent there may be planted marketing, or how paranoid one should be about it.

Also when I talked with stemcells21 they main selling pitch could be summarized in "you will have great accommodation", while when I talked with swiss medica they did not even mentioned accommodation and focus was on therapy. I don't need great 5 stars accommodation - I just need therapy that will work Also Swiss medica was less sales - more 'humane" - for example in stemcells21 you pay for number of cells, while in swiss medica they told me that I will get 5-7 M of cells per kg of body weight for 24300 USD, which is exactly what research on animals is showing to be effective, and what clinical trial "Safety of Autologous Stem Cell Infusion for Children With Acquired Hearing Loss" is also stating "The minimum acceptable dose will be 6x10 6th mononuclear cells/kilogram body weight"

Those factors would be likely to make an impression on me as well.

Also, I don't need visa for Russia (and I need it for Thailand) :-p

An easier and cheaper trip matters also.

edit: Also one more thing - in stem cells21 you get steroids to suppress immune system so that stem cells that you get from donation are not immediately killed. In Swiss medica they try to match my HLA (Human Leucocyte Antigen) with donor's and no steroids are given. I see this as advantage - especially if stem cells treatment is seen as anti-inflammatory / immuono-regulation procedure.

Intuitively speaking, a treatment that goes along with the body seem better. I wouldn't know if using steroids is wiser, of course. But all things considered, I can see why you went for Swiss Medica. Maybe I would too. For us on TT, it's beneficial that different clinics are tried out. I think you're giving it a good shot. If I may offer some small and maybe unnecessary advice, be patient about the outcome. To my understanding, stem cells will need a few months to do their job.

I find stem cell therapy to be exciting stuff. It's a cool, powerful treatment.

 

[glynis]

How are you getting on with your treatment.@Whiskeyconteq.lots of love glynis

 

[whiskeykonteq]

I fail to understand the difference between different kind of stem cells, but I assume that UCB-MSC are the donated ones, that should be most effective. So in terms of raw therapy power Stemcells21 and Swiss Medica looks fairly equal, at least to me as an amateur. 50M of the strongest kind doesn't seem like a small amount, and maybe it makes sense to try many different sorts of stem cells while you're at it. So the core difference should be the price, approximately 5K USD which is a lot.

In Swiss Medica you get far more cells for 5k USD less. Of course there are too many factors to compare (not only number of cells). For example what pass are the cells. Lower pass is better. Also viability of thawed cells (how many of those 50M or 60M are actually live etc ...). At the end you just have to believe stem cell clinic, because you can't check any of these ;-)

Yeah, probably. I don't know to what extent there may be planted marketing, or how paranoid one should be about it.

It's possible that they paid people to leave testimonials. But I saw real people here (US couple that came here for wife's ALS) and they see some improvements even after 2-3 weeks. So, I guess that testimonials might be true ... but you never know.

An easier and cheaper trip matters also.

Yes, and also it's only 1 hour time difference to CEST.

Intuitively speaking, a treatment that goes along with the body seem better. I wouldn't know if using steroids is wiser, of course. But all things considered, I can see why you went for Swiss Medica. Maybe I would too. For us on TT, it's beneficial that different clinics are tried out. I think you're giving it a good shot. If I may offer some small and maybe unnecessary advice, be patient about the outcome. To my understanding, stem cells will need a few months to do their job.

I find stem cell therapy to be exciting stuff. It's a cool, powerful treatment.

Thanks for advice ! And that's my biggest problem - I want everything now ... I guess that I will just have to be patient with this ;-)

 

[whiskeykonteq]

How are you getting on with your treatment.@Whiskeyconteq.lots of love glynis

Hi glynis !
Thanks for asking - I'm going to have PRP and SVFs tomorrow. That means they will take venous blood and 100-200 cc of adipose tissue (fat) tomorrow morning ("a pound of flash"), prepare PRP and SVFs and inject them into blood around noon / 1pm ;-) This will be first operation in my life too :-p I will have local anesthesia.
T is still the same ... but if this works I should see some improvements in September / October ;-)

Cheers!

 

[glynis]

Good luck tomorrow,
I have sever tinnitus due to Menieres and my hearing took a big dive....staying positive for you.....lots of love glynis

 

[Hopeful1]

@whiskeykonteq
How is your treatment going on?

 

[glynis]

@whiskeykonteq,
Hope the injection went well.
Does that mean your treatment is done now and can go home ?....lots of love glynis

 

[whiskeykonteq]

Good luck tomorrow,
I have sever tinnitus due to Menieres and my hearing took a big dive....staying positive for you.....lots of love glynis

Hi Glynis,

thanks ! Means a lot when it comes from you - one of few people here, ready to listen to anyone who needs to talk to someone ... for your Menieres - have you seen videos by dana white ? He just had PRP and it was immediately better and stayed like that for months (years maybe?). He did PRP in Germany in Düsseldorf, but you can do it on other places as well ... definitely you should consider it.

lots of love !
Alex

 

[glynis]

Hi @whiskeykonteq,
No I have not seen the video but not in the position to pay for that kind of treatment and have a mega phobia of flying .
My hearing aids help with the tinnitus but do worry how much hearing I will loose with the condition.
The UK is way behind with treatment and trials and only option is my medication for M.D.
I have just had the toughest week ever with my tinnitus and felt like my brain and ears were going explode.
I came off Amytriptaline after being on it for OA for 12+ years.
I taperd 50 mg last year from 100mg to 50 mg and came off 50mg in a week and had mild side effects but tinnitus went super nuts but thank God it has reduced .....glad I'm off the meds ....

Would you be happy for me talk about what you have been through to the tinnitus support group myself and another lady run ?
I would only do it with your consent ....lots of love glynis
Thankyou for your kind comments x

 

[whiskeykonteq]

@whiskeykonteq
How is your treatment going on?

@whiskeykonteq,
Hope the injection went well.
Does that mean your treatment is done now and can go home ?....lots of love glynis

Thanks for asking girls and guys ! Time for next update ;-) So I had last 2 days 2 procedures - on Friday I had adipose tissue extraction and re-injection of SVFs and PRP. Procedure itself lasts 45 minutes and although I got local anesthetics I could still feel needle going over my fat, belly button and slurping it into container It was not painful but not exactly pleasant either ;-) (understandable). I did not had any pain in the evening so no need for pain killers. Doctor was really good and skillful - he made only 1 small hole, injected 100 cc of lidocaine and something to break fat into liquid and finally got 250cc of fat through it. To entertain myself, I asked doctor if he can give me my fat back after he extracts SVFs as I would like to use it for cooking, since I never tried human flash and here is perfect opportunity. I had serious face and he was not sure if I was really serious or just trying to be funny :-p His face expression said it all After the procedure, I got some compression bandages over stomach to compress would. Unfortunately you can't really breath good with them. They removed them this evening ! I can breath normally again - yay !!!
Today (Saturday) I had bone marrow extraction by the same doctor. Again it was not pleasant - especially when when you can fell vibrations of bones while he is trying to break into iliac crest with small hammer and a chisel. It was shorter than adipose tissue removal but more painful (30 seconds of intense pain coming directly from inside your bone). It was fast over though and I have received later this afternoon again PRP and MB-MSCs cocktail.
Both of those procedures started with taking 600 ml of venous blood at 9:30am for preparation of PRP. That was completely painless with just one tick - needle in the vein.

I have 2 more batches of stem cells to go! UC-MSCs (around 100M) and around 50M UCB-MSCs. And that that will be end of my treatment. I have flight back home booked for 21st July evening, so everything should be on time.

Also I accepted stem cells good - had no adverse effects - skin rashes, fevers etc ... - and both allogenic and autologous - which is great ! ;-)

Thanks a lot for yours support ! Hopefully this will help and more people will get rid of their T / HL / H / MD ...

Cheers

BTW, this was adipose tissue from Friday. I did not took picture of bone marrow container today :-(

 

[whiskeykonteq]

Hi @whiskeykonteq,
No I have not seen the video but not in the position to pay for that kind of treatment and have a mega phobia of flying .

Here is Dana White that says that he's meneire's is now completely gone ! So there is no clinical trials, only anecdotal reports - but all you need is one anecdotal's report - yours ! ;-)


Also he's update:


And I'm sure that there are more clinics in UK that does that. Also you can go to Germany via France under English Channel ;-) And procedure is some 8k in Germany. I believe they do it pretty much quality for 8k. http://orthogen.com/orthokin/en/home-2/ Also wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthokine But I'm sure you can do it cheaper in some other place. I got 2 PRPs here in Moscow for ... I would say 5k ... or less (If I had paid it separately that how much it would cost probably).

My hearing aids help with the tinnitus but do worry how much hearing I will loose with the condition.
The UK is way behind with treatment and trials and only option is my medication for M.D.
I have just had the toughest week ever with my tinnitus and felt like my brain and ears were going explode.
I came off Amytriptaline after being on it for OA for 12+ years.
I taperd 50 mg last year from 100mg to 50 mg and came off 50mg in a week and had mild side effects but tinnitus went super nuts but thank God it has reduced .....glad I'm off the meds ....

Huh ;-( I'm really sorry to hear that ;-( I feel for you ... You seams like a wonderful person and this thing to happen to you ;-( I hope you will get better. I'm also in the process of withdrawing from escitalopram, xanax and remreon ... it can be hell ...

Would you be happy for me talk about what you have been through to the tinnitus support group myself and another lady run ?
I would only do it with your consent ....lots of love glynis
Thankyou for your kind comments x

Of course ! No problem at all. If you need any more info to fill in, just drop me message here or in PM ;-) Although here is better - others can benefit too ;-)

 

[glynis]

whiskeykonteq,
Thank you so much for the video's of Dana White and will watch them straight away.
Thank you for letting me talk about your treatment and looking forward to any updates..lots of love glynis

 

[glynis]

Thanks for asking girls and guys ! Time for next update ;-) So I had last 2 days 2 procedures - on Friday I had adipose tissue extraction and re-injection of SVFs and PRP. Procedure itself lasts 45 minutes and although I got local anesthetics I could still feel needle going over my fat, belly button and slurping it into container It was not painful but not exactly pleasant either ;-) (understandable). I did not had any pain in the evening so no need for pain killers. Doctor was really good and skillful - he made only 1 small hole, injected 100 cc of lidocaine and something to break fat into liquid and finally got 250cc of fat through it. To entertain myself, I asked doctor if he can give me my fat back after he extracts SVFs as I would like to use it for cooking, since I never tried human flash and here is perfect opportunity. I had serious face and he was not sure if I was really serious or just trying to be funny :-p His face expression said it all After the procedure, I got some compression bandages over stomach to compress would. Unfortunately you can't really breath good with them. They removed them this evening ! I can breath normally again - yay !!!
Today (Saturday) I had bone marrow extraction by the same doctor. Again it was not pleasant - especially when when you can fell vibrations of bones while he is trying to break into iliac crest with small hammer and a chisel. It was shorter than adipose tissue removal but more painful (30 seconds of intense pain coming directly from inside your bone). It was fast over though and I have received later this afternoon again PRP and MB-MSCs cocktail.
Both of those procedures started with taking 600 ml of venous blood at 9:30am for preparation of PRP. That was completely painless with just one tick - needle in the vein.

I have 2 more batches of stem cells to go! UC-MSCs (around 100M) and around 50M UCB-MSCs. And that that will be end of my treatment. I have flight back home booked for 21st July evening, so everything should be on time.

Also I accepted stem cells good - had no adverse effects - skin rashes, fevers etc ... - and both allogenic and autologous - which is great ! ;-)

Thanks a lot for yours support ! Hopefully this will help and more people will get rid of their T / HL / H / MD ...

Cheers

BTW, this was adipose tissue from Friday. I did not took picture of bone marrow container today :-(

View attachment 10894

WOW...totally missed this post from you Alex.....
You have had a lot done over yesterday and today and Bone Marrow removal...hope your back is ok from that painful procedure.
Hope you get a lovely roast dinner Sunday and a good rest.
You are amazing going through it all and love your positivity too....lots of love glynis

 

[RaZaH]

Mind if I ask a stupid question ?
If these stem cells work at all, how would they know to go to your ears rather then something else ?
I fail to see how this can be controlled at all .

 

[Vincent R]

Mind if I ask a stupid question ?
If these stem cells work at all, how would they know to go to your ears rather then something else ?
I fail to see how this can be controlled at all .

Your question is not stupid.

I believe stem cells navigate by spotting where there is something going wrong in the body. We do know that they can work for degnerative diseases that fucks up your hearing (The case of Chloe Sohl). When there is no ongoing process that can be spotted, you'll just have to hope that the blood transports them where they need to be. That' why massive amounts of stem cells are used during the therapy. If you suffer from T due to loud noise, I assume that the nerve cells in question are long gone. So there is a huge questionmark if stem cells will be an effective treatment in such cases. It worked to some degree for one TT-member, ATEOS, whose cause of T is uncertain.

How should this be understood? In my opinion, the question about stem cells need to be rephrased.

"Does the stem cells work for T?" is an outdated debate. We know it works. Chloe Sohl had T as one of her symptoms and got better. ATEOS had suffered from T during a long time and got better. Yes, it's anecdotical, but anecdotical doesn't equal unscientific. It wasn't coincidence, the Santa Claus or someone saying "abracadabra" that helped them. They had stem cells injected, and this fixed things up inside them. That is recorded history and can't be changed unless someone invent a time machine.

The correct question should then be "How effective are stem cells in different cases of T?" That, we don't know.

P.S. What I written above is gained from what I've read on TT, and there can certainly be things I missed or misunderstood. Consider it to be what information than can be gained on a sunday afternoon.