New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

[Jiri]

There are other threads to talk about stem cells and other treatments such as SF0034 etc. Could we keep this one on topic?

Sorry about this.

 

[Paulmanlike]

Stem cell treatments have already helped some T sufferers. It's history rather than future.

However, there are those who have tried the treatment without any improvements. Anyone who tries might waste his/hers hard-earned money.

I agree that suppressing the symptoms is a step in the right direction.

If you watched that video Vincent were they are discussing the treatment, they said that something along the lines of we don't know if continued use of this may lead to a reduction or alleviation of symptoms completely.

It's a case of we're going to have to wait and see if it continues to show efficacy and how much and for how long for.

Besides - even if turned out using it for 30 mins to get a week of low t or no t I would be over the moon

 

[Martin69]

The video is very informative. Thanks for this @Markku

2018 - Next trial
2019 - Results of trials published
2020 - Maybe FDA approval

If this really works, big pharma companys will jump on this and give money. Or they will try to create their own device. And you will see more people in best clothes on the videos. Also nice and professional computer-animated videos.

Unfortunately they will probably sell this for a fortune - like they do with the neurostimulation device (simply an MP3 player). Hardware costs maybe 50$, but they charge 5000$.

It is a long way to go, but it gives hope that one day something will be available for us and it shows people or working on this. Hopefully it is not again just another device with a big disappointment at the end.

 

[Spiral]

The video is very informative. Thanks for this @Markku

2018 - Next trial
2019 - Results of trials published
2020 - Maybe FDA approval

If this really works, big pharma companys will jump on this and give money. Or they will try to create their own device. And you will see more people in best clothes on the videos. Also nice and professional computer-animated videos.

Unfortunately they will probably sell this for a fortune - like they do with the neurostimulation device (simply an MP3 player). Hardware costs maybe 50$, but they charge 5000$.

It is a long way to go, but it gives hope that one day something will be available for us and it shows people or working on this. Hopefully it is not again just another device with a big disappointment at the end.

Amen to that! In just two years this nightmare could be over.

 

[h-m-1994]

Amen to that! In just two years this nightmare could be over.

Once it goes on sale I'll buy 20!

 

[Martin69]

What I find promising is what Susan Shore says about Tinnitus. I don't know if this is just the common understanding or if this is what they really found out with animal models. Since they developed the device and had some success with it (at least in most patients), I hope they have understood the root cause of T. Here some explanations by her:

"
Animal studies have identified specific nerve cells in the brain, called fusiform cells, that signal phantom sounds to the rest of the brain," said lead researcher Susan Shore.

In someone with tinnitus, fusiform cells increase activity as they normally would in the presence of a real sound, she explained. "These signals are transmitted to the auditory part of the brain and are interpreted as sound when there is no sound stimulus," said Shore, a professor of otolaryngology, physiology and biomedical engineering.

The new study shows fusiform cell activity can be tamed using a combination of sounds and mild electrical stimulation of the skin.

The new, non-invasive device relies on so-called stimulus timing-dependent plasticity, or STDP. It aims to correct the nerve malfunction at the root of tinnitus by directing sound into the ears and alternating mild electrical pulses to the cheek or neck.

"The brain, and specifically the region of the brainstem called the dorsal cochlear nucleus, is the root of tinnitus," said Susan Shore, university professor and leader of the research team working on the device. "When the main neurons in this region, called fusiform cells, become hyperactive and synchronize with one another, the phantom signal is transmitted into other centers where perception occurs."
"​

Any doctors or researchers here? Any idea how those "fusiform cells" can be calmed down (excluding Benzos or Trobalt) naturally?

 

[MickV]

What I find promising is what Susan Shore says about Tinnitus. I don't know if this is just the common understanding or if this is what they really found out with animal models. Since they developed the device and had some success with it (at least in most patients), I hope they have understood the root cause of T. Here some explanations by her:

"Animal studies have identified specific nerve cells in the brain, called fusiform cells, that signal phantom sounds to the rest of the brain," said lead researcher Susan Shore.

In someone with tinnitus, fusiform cells increase activity as they normally would in the presence of a real sound, she explained. "These signals are transmitted to the auditory part of the brain and are interpreted as sound when there is no sound stimulus," said Shore, a professor of otolaryngology, physiology and biomedical engineering.

The new study shows fusiform cell activity can be tamed using a combination of sounds and mild electrical stimulation of the skin.

The new, non-invasive device relies on so-called stimulus timing-dependent plasticity, or STDP. It aims to correct the nerve malfunction at the root of tinnitus by directing sound into the ears and alternating mild electrical pulses to the cheek or neck.

"The brain, and specifically the region of the brainstem called the dorsal cochlear nucleus, is the root of tinnitus," said Susan Shore, university professor and leader of the research team working on the device. "When the main neurons in this region, called fusiform cells, become hyperactive and synchronize with one another, the phantom signal is transmitted into other centers where perception occurs."
"

Any doctors or researchers here? Any idea how those "fusiform cells" can be calmed down (excluding Benzos or Trobalt) naturally?

You are talking away of time. The bottom line she admitted. "I do not know if it will work, we will have to see"

 

[GregCA]

Any doctors or researchers here? Any idea how those "fusiform cells" can be calmed down (excluding Benzos or Trobalt) naturally?

She provides the idea. What's not natural about a little jolt and a sound?

 

[J.Hartog]

Unfortunately they will probably sell this for a fortune - like they do with the neurostimulation device (simply an MP3 player). Hardware costs maybe 50$, but they charge 5000$.

If it truly works and will even give a 50% reduction in T I would pay 10x that amount, I don't care about the money. And I don't even have that kind of money laying around but I would get it somehow, I would do almost anything to get relief except harming another person.

 

[Paulmanlike]

Remember if you put a lightbulb on your head it actually lights up. Sound and a little jolt is very natural.

 

[threefirefour]

You are talking away of time. The bottom line she admitted. "I do not know if it will work, we will have to see"

When did she say this? By the experiment it looks like it worked so far.

 

[Paulmanlike]

When did she say this? By the experiment it looks like it worked so far.

It's only been tested on 20 people and the results in the timeframe were promising and had a significant change, but as @Aaron123 had said it wasn't clinically significant change of 13 or more points.

They are doing a larger clinical study with more people for longer to see if it works

 

[threefirefour]

It's only been tested on 20 people and the results in the timeframe were promising and had a significant change, but as @Aaron123 had said it wasn't clinically significant change of 13 or more points.

They are doing a larger clinical study with more people for longer to see if it works

This is good. Honestly what they should have done in the first place.

 

[Screamin Ears]

If it truly works and will even give a 50% reduction in T I would pay 10x that amount, I don't care about the money. And I don't even have that kind of money laying around but I would get it somehow,

Please don't say shit like that on a public forum, it just tells people we're desperate and ready to be ripped off.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Thanks to @Autumnly for posting this (this was a live stream earlier today):

Not sure whether this is on- or off-topic, but I just wonder aloud if there is any particular reason they had absolutely had to hire a hippie in a clown costume to conduct the interview...?!?

 

[threefirefour]

Please don't say shit like that on a public forum, it just tells people we're desperate and ready to be ripped off.

Well, I mean to be fair, we are.

 

[Ambassador]

Not me.

 

[Spiral]

Not me.

We all know the truth. If there was a treatment, you know that you'd pay out for it. They know it. We know it. And they will make their money.

 

[Paulmanlike]

We all know the truth. If there was a treatment, you know that you'd pay out for it. They know it. We know it. And they will make their money.

I know people who have tinnitus who couldn't care less about it because they are so used to it.

It's good that they know they're going to make a killing of it if it works, because money is a motivator. And anybody who works out how to reduce the noise of this complex condition deserves every penny.

 

[Ambassador]

We all know the truth. If there was a treatment, you know that you'd pay out for it. They know it. We know it. And they will make their money.

That's not what i said, I won't be ripped off and volunteer to pay 10X the cost of any treatment. Tinnitus sucks, is a pain in the ass but I have a life and a family and I'm not going to bankrupt myself chasing a non existent cure.

 

[Jiri]

I'm not going to bankrupt myself chasing a non existent cure.

I don't think it's going to be a complete rip off that you'd have to bankrupt yourself. Also why should it be non-existent?

There are some promising results already. Dr. Shore said it herself in the video - it's based on 15 years of research and this is what she said already back in 2013.

I imagine you'd have to first go and see your audiologist to learn how to operate the device and you'll proly be monitored too. So it's not like going on Amazon or Ebay and buying it.

 

[Ambassador]

I don't think it's going to be a complete rip off that you'd have to bankrupt yourself. Also why should it be non-existent?

There are some promising results already. Dr. Shore said it herself in the video - it's based on 15 years of research and this is what she said already back in 2013.

I imagine you'd have to first go and see your audiologist to learn how to operate the device and you'll proly be monitored too. So it's not like going on Amazon or Ebay and buying it.

This was in response to a post about spending 10X what a therapy would cost. Why would anyone spend 10x more than cost?
Meanwhile I've made contact with Dr. Shore at the UM and hope to be part of the clinical trial in the fall. This device is years away from FDA approval and commercial availability and it's probably only going to help a subset of the tinnitus population. I'm not even sure I will qualify for the study.

 

[brummygirl]

@Ambassador I do hope you manage to get on the trial. Are you close to the location?
We have registered our interest in it, but as we are in the UK I am not really expecting to be offered a place. Good luck!

 

[threefirefour]

This was in response to a post about spending 10X what a therapy would cost. Why would anyone spend 10x more than cost?
Meanwhile I've made contact with Dr. Shore at the UM and hope to be part of the clinical trial in the fall. This device is years away from FDA approval and commercial availability and it's probably only going to help a subset of the tinnitus population. I'm not even sure I will qualify for the study.

Did she explicitly say years and how many? I heard 2 years is a reasonable expectation, but that could be wrong.

 

[Ambassador]

The test location is a full day's drive from me but I am recently retied with the time to do it, if selected.

I don't think anyone can predict if or when this device might be commercially available, certainly that time would be measured in years.

There have been dozens of treatment that make it to clinical trials never to be heard from again. I'm always hopeful but so much more work needs to be done.

 

[threefirefour]

The test location is a full day's drive from me but I am recently retied with the time to do it, if selected.

I don't think anyone can predict if or when this device might be commercially available, certainly that time would be measured in years.

There have been dozens of treatment that make it to clinical trials never to be heard from again. I'm always hopeful but so much more work needs to be done.

Thanks. I don't think that the FDA is the biggest issue. It's an issue but because this isn't a medicine, it should be easier to pass through. At least that's what other users have said.

 

[Jiri]

Meanwhile I've made contact with Dr. Shore at the UM and hope to be part of the clinical trial in the fall.

Well, best of luck to you becoming part of the trial then. Let us know how it went if you get on the list.

This device is years away from FDA approval and commercial availability

I think they said in the other live stream video chat reshared by Markku that if all goes well they might get the FDA approval by 2020. And because of money and other reasons (it's not a drug so the FDA regulations might be lowered) it'd then be available quite soon imo.

I think there were other people on here messaging the team and getting a similar response. That is

2018 - Next trial
2019 - Results of trials published
2020 - Maybe FDA approval

and it's probably only going to help a subset of the tinnitus population.

Yes, and that's 2/3. Those who can modulate their tinnititus.

I hate to repeat myself but again " it's based on 15 years of research and this is what she said already back in 2013."

So stop being grumpy and be more optimistic. Positive thinking.

 

[Ambassador]

Positive thinking is great but keeping a firm footing in reality is also necessary. I've seen a dozen promising research projects crash and burn, I'll be first in line when this becomes real but until then I will curb my enthusiasm. Don't you think 15 years of research in 2013 plus another 5 bringing us to present day, 20 years is enough? There's a reason this hasn't been brought to market and I would like to know what that reason is before we start high fiving each other.

 

[Paulmanlike]

Positive thinking is great but keeping a firm footing in reality is also necessary. I've seen a dozen promising research projects crash and burn, I'll be first in line when this becomes real but until then I will curb my enthusiasm. Don't you think 15 years of research in 2013 plus another 5 bringing us to present day, 20 years is enough? There's a reason this hasn't been brought to market and I would like to know what that reason is before we start high fiving each other.

You can tell the long term sufferers to the newcomers. Bad news is nothing new to long term sufferers.

Regarding the other reason, it's been tested on 20 people, selling a product on 20 people is barely justifiable to sell it in millions worldwide. I would rather long clinical trials to prove its efficacy, than being gravely disappointed when it doesn't work.

Anyway, I can't modulate my tinnitus. The only way I can think of mine being somatic is that I put pressure on my ear with my finger just above the lobe (like pushing the ear in), the noise goes louder and a bit higher pitch. Is that even somatic?

 

[Ambassador]

You can tell the long term sufferers to the newcomers. Bad news is nothing new to long term sufferers.

Regarding the other reason, it's been tested on 20 people, selling a product on 20 people is barely justifiable to sell it in millions worldwide. I would rather long clinical trials to prove its efficacy, than being gravely disappointed when it doesn't work.

Anyway, I can't modulate my tinnitus. The only way I can think of mine being somatic is that I put pressure on my ear with my finger just above the lobe (like pushing the ear in), the noise goes louder and a bit higher pitch. Is that even somatic?

I can do a similar maneuver and believe that would qualify as somatic. I'm curious how they will measure this. It's all perception within each of us regarding how loud our tinnitus is and over any given amount of time mine will go from raging tea kettle to it's not so bad I can live with it. If I move through a cycle like that during treatment, did the treatment provide relief or did I just "habituate" on my own, as I have several times in the last 4 years.