New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

[Stayinghopeful]

I literally just need my 12 kHz and up reactive tone to take a hike or at least go to a quiet hiss, and I can live life normally again, even with my other 2 mid-range tones. Constant electricity on in the ears/head is a different level of tinnitus.

I agree, I feel like I have an electrical storm in my head of flickering high pitched electrical tones. Do you find you get brain fog too as a result of this?

 

[SarahMLFlemmer]

Constant electricity on in the ears/head is a different level of tinnitus.

It super is a whole another level.

 

[ErikaS]

I agree, I feel like I have an electrical storm in my head of flickering high pitched electrical tones. Do you find you get brain fog too as a result of this?

Not necessarily brain fog, just utter frustration, anger, and depression.

 

[Forever hopeful]

The only limit we know of so far, at least for participating in the trials, was profound high frequency hearing loss.

How do they define profound super high frequency hearing loss? High frequency hearing loss is exactly what noise-induced hearing loss causes. It's really the first to go.

 

[AfroSnowman]

I agree, I feel like I have an electrical storm in my head of flickering high pitched electrical tones. Do you find you get brain fog too as a result of this?

I figure it knocks about 20% off my IQ and 20-30% on my ability to focus. I guess that is brain fog.

 

[ErikaS]

How do they define profound super high frequency hearing loss? High frequency hearing loss is exactly what noise-induced hearing loss causes. It's really the first to go.

I assume this would be profound high frequency hearing loss in the 4-8 kHz range. At least one ear has to be able to hear the output tones from the intervention, so you need to be able to hear tones within speech range up to those high frequencies.

 

[Athens]

I hope that the brain calms down if we can lower the tinnitus sounds with the device. It almost feels like some form of hyperacusis is the brain trying to make us avoid loud sounds. Why would it ramp up the sounds and make them uncomfortable if not for making us avoid them? Or the fullness in our ears. It must be the tensor tympani or stapedius trying to protect us from sounds. Unfortunately, even if the sounds aren't loud.

I would rather hear less to be honest. It's just terrible to feel uncomfortable most of the time.

The sounds might be ramped up because the brain is not getting the same level of auditory input as before and turns the volume up not for protection but to compensate for the lost input. I also think that stress, depression, and/or anxiety might play an important factor in bringing tinnitus and hyperacusis to the surface. I realize that we are all just throwing theories around here.

 

[AnthonyMcDonald]

How do they define profound super high frequency hearing loss? High frequency hearing loss is exactly what noise-induced hearing loss causes. It's really the first to go.

"Individuals with severe to profound hearing loss were excluded from the study. The reason for this is that the device relies on the ability to hear specific sounds for the treatment to be effective. If a person has severe to profound hearing loss, they might not be able to hear the sounds necessary for the device to work as intended."​

If I remember correctly, and don't quote me on this, I believe she meant any hearing loss more than 70 dB in the targeted signal frequency would render someone incapable of participating in the trial. I don't remember reading anything about efficacy.

 

[Jonno02]

The device can produce a signal beyond the audible hearing range for humans.

I really don't think it'll matter what pitch your tinnitus is with this device.

 

[Nick47]

If I remember correctly, and don't quote me on this, I believe she meant any hearing loss more than 70 dB in the targeted signal frequency would render someone incapable of participating in the trial. I don't remember reading anything about efficacy.

I think it was 50 dB. The question I want to know is, given you wear 1 ear piece, would having normal hearing thresholds in one ear but severe-profound hearing loss in the other render the treatment useless? Not an answer that can definitely be answered unfortunately.

 

[Jim Vasilakis]

I have always asserted this as the most plausible theory for hyperacusis!

Not on Tinnitus Talk, however (so don't go looking for quotes and then telling me "no you didn't..." when you come up empty handed), but with anyone willing to discuss the topics of tinnitus and hyperacusis with me in person.

It's what annoys me so much about the "overprotection" myth some people state as undisputed fact.

That somehow the withdrawal from sound after injury by sound, will cause even more injury...

Like, "sh*t you're burning your hand on that campfire boy!", "no! no! the last thing you want to do is remove it from the fire!"

Some people who develop severe hyperacusis, for whatever reason, assume that the alternative action they didn't take, would have resulted in a better outcome.

"If I just hadn't 'overprotected' things would be so much better now". Well here's the thing: they could also be much worse.

No, we have no idea what causes hyperacusis yet. Nothing but theory and conjecture. So one guess is as good as another (and that includes the cause being alien abductions followed by alien implants that gave us all super-sonic hearing).

The same goes for tinnitus (although we seem to be making better progress with that). So we cannot yet say, this (x action) is what the person should have done after their acoustic trauma to mitigate a worse outcome.

That said, of everything I've heard since 2009; my own internal dialogue telling me "you have damaged hearing and tinnitus → further noise turns damaged hearing and tinnitus into even more damaged hearing tinnitus → hyperacusis makes one want to avoid that noise → most people with damaged hearing and tinnitus have hyperacusis → perhaps this is an adaptive function trying to prevent further complications" has made the most sense.

Why does a sprained ankle hurt to touch... why do the nerves continue to send pain signals to the brain after the damage has been done. This should be rhetorical, but to state the obvious: so that you protect the ankle to let it heal and to prevent further injury.

Hence why I tell people who present with recent hearing damage and tinnitus, to protect as much as they f*cking can, until things start to improve.

Yeah, agreed. These super-sonic alien implants aren't all they're cracked up to be.

Actually, most people with tinnitus don't have hyperacusis. Close to 40% of tinnitus patients have hyperacusis, so just not the majority. Most people with hyperacusis also have tinnitus but that is a different equation.

 

[Jonno02]

I think it was 50 dB. The question I want to know is, given you wear 1 ear piece, would having normal hearing thresholds in one ear but severe-profound hearing loss in the other render the treatment useless? Not an answer that can definitely be answered unfortunately.

99% of my tinnitus is in my right ear and my most prominent tone is completely absent from my left ear. When I play the frequency of this tone in my left ear, residual inhibition 100% works in my right ear too. Hopefully that would mean if you can hear the frequency in one ear, both would benefit.

If this wasn't the case, it'd make more sense for the device to have 2 headphones too as you'd need to repeat the treatment in both ears. My opinion on it anyway...

 

[Damocles]

Actually, most people with tinnitus don't have hyperacusis. Close to 40% of tinnitus patients have hyperacusis, so just not the majority. Most people with hyperacusis also have tinnitus but that is a different equation.

I was referring to tinnitus. Not tinnitus.

Although I'd like to see where those figures come from.

 

[Alberte]

info@auricle.com if you want to.

I doubt you'll get much, if anything from them though.

I wrote to Info@auricle.com Although they have the same name, it's not the company related to Dr. Shore's device.

 

[Nick47]

If this wasn't the case, it'd make more sense for the device to have 2 headphones too as you'd need to repeat the treatment in both ears. My opinion on it anyway...

Thanks @Jonno02, that is a very good observation you make. It is different to Lenire, which uses uses headphones to play sounds in both ears. I think we are just learning about the contralateral nature of this disease.

 

[Philip83]

99% of my tinnitus is in my right ear and my most prominent tone is completely absent from my left ear. When I play the frequency of this tone in my left ear, residual inhibition 100% works in my right ear too.

I've read this in a couple of places, can't remember where, that it's been proven that a lot of mechanisms regarding hearing is bilateral. For example, the stapes stabilizing operation that can be done, usually fixes hyperacusis in both ears, even if you only operate one ear.

 

[Damocles]

I wrote to Info@auricle.com Although they have the same name, it's not the company related to Dr. Shore's device.

Ah, my bad.

Auricle, Inc (Michigan)

Auricle, Inc. is a medical device venture focused on commercializing the first validated and effective therapy that treats tinnitus at its source.

and Auricle Health, Inc (Stanford)

Auricle is a medical device company developing a breakthrough neurostimulation implant to restore hearing in the millions of patients who no longer benefit from hearing aids and are not served by existing solutions.

Anyway, scoured the internet again. Can't find any direct contact address for Dr. Shore's Auricle, so I guess the best thing to do (if people feel they need an estimate) would be to contact one of these guys (assuming you have a LinkedIn):

David Martel.

Jon Pearson.

Just, please, no one contact Dr. Shore again (unless you want to arrange a dinner party).

 

[SarahMLFlemmer]

"Individuals with severe to profound hearing loss were excluded from the study. The reason for this is that the device relies on the ability to hear specific sounds for the treatment to be effective. If a person has severe to profound hearing loss, they might not be able to hear the sounds necessary for the device to work as intended."​

If I remember correctly, and don't quote me on this, I believe she meant any hearing loss more than 70 dB in the targeted signal frequency would render someone incapable of participating in the trial. I don't remember reading anything about efficacy.

Does anyone know how I can figure out if I have "high frequency" hearing loss? I did an audiogram and my hearing is the same and normal, but unsure if they did a "high frequency" audiogram or not.

 

[JimmyStrong]

How do they define profound super high frequency hearing loss? High frequency hearing loss is exactly what noise-induced hearing loss causes. It's really the first to go.

So if I used Dr. Shore's device with profound high-frequency hearing loss, would it not work?

The only audiogram I have taken went up to 8 kHz and it was only 18 dB down.

 

[AnthonyMcDonald]

I think it was 50 dB. The question I want to know is, given you wear 1 ear piece, would having normal hearing thresholds in one ear but severe-profound hearing loss in the other render the treatment useless? Not an answer that can definitely be answered unfortunately.

I rememeber reading an email where she stated that it doesn't matter what ear you put the earpiece into (because tinnitus is in the brain/DCN etc). So if someone has profound hearing loss in one ear, they can just use the other.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

I rememeber reading an email where she stated that it doesn't matter what ear you put the earpiece into (because tinnitus is in the brain/DCN etc). So if someone has profound hearing loss in one ear, they can just use the other.

Very astute analysis - what amazes me about the brain's functioning is that when you place a hearing aid in one ear, you get a certain amount of amplification, but about three times the amplification when you have both in.

Symbiotically, the whole is much more powerful than the sum of its parts. Every Audiologist I have seen has acknowledged this phenomenon, but I have never received an explanation for this (and perhaps Neurologists are not quite sure.)

How many unspeakably cruel ironies does Life have in store for us: About 30 years ago I read our American Author Kurt Vonnegut, and he mentioned that the 20th Century French Novelist Louis Ferdinand-Celine heard "a constant, high pitched sound" from a World War l injury, and that it eventually drove him quite mad.

I reacted with utter horror - of course this would drive anyone mad.
Little did I know that I also would eventually be visited by this same hellish condition.

 

[Jonno02]

Little did I know that I also would eventually be visited by this same hellish condition.

Ironically enough, the best day for the users of this forum is when the forum is no longer required, as a cure has appeared.

This device is a huge step towards that outcome. Relief is on the way.

 

[TashaJane]

Anyone have any theories as to why Dr. Shore's device only works on somatic tinnitus? I understand the electrical impulses stimulate the nerves, but I have multiple tones - some of which are somatic and some of which are not. So are the tones that are not somatic, not going to benefit? But if her theory is that all tinnitus comes from the same place, then wouldn't it not work for both?

 

[AnthonyMcDonald]

Anyone have any theories as to why Dr. Shore's device only works on somatic tinnitus? I understand the electrical impulses stimulate the nerves, but I have multiple tones - some of which are somatic and some of which are not. So are the tones that are not somatic, not going to benefit? But if her theory is that all tinnitus comes from the same place, then wouldn't it not work for both?

Theories? This is very well explained in Dr. Shore's numerous papers.

Based on Dr. Shore's research, she and her team identified that the root cause of (somatic) tinnitus and its severity lies in the dysfunction of the Dorsal Cochlear Nucleus and it's interaction/crossfire with the somatosensory systems in the brain stem (i.e. crossfire between the DCN and TCC). Her device is designed to restore the normal balance between these two systems. The combination two types of stimulation (auditory/electrodes) helps "reset" the abnormal neural activity and crossfire, leading to a reduction in tinnitus.

The Dorsal Cochlear Nucleus (DCN) is responsible for processing and integrating auditory and somatosensory inputs. While its primary function is related to auditory processing, the DCN also receives somatosensory inputs from various sources, mainly related to the head and neck region. These somatosensory inputs can arise from several structures, including:

1) Trigeminal nerve - This is the nerve that carries somatosensory information from the face, scalp, oral cavity, and jaw muscles. The DCN receives inputs from the trigeminal ganglion, which convey information about touch, temperature, and pain from these areas.

2) Cervical spinal nerves - these nerves innervate the neck muscles and skin. These nerves convey somatosensory information from the neck region to the DCN.

3) Dorsal column-medial lemniscus pathway - This pathway carries somatosensory information from the body and limbs, including proprioception (sense of body position, that's why some people can modulate their tinnitus by moving their limbs), touch, and vibration. Although the DCN primarily processes inputs from the head and neck, it can also receive some information from this pathway.

Basically these somatosensory inputs to the DCN play essential roles in various auditory functions, such as sound localization and suppression of self-generated sounds. They can modulate the activity of the DCN, and in the case of somatic tinnitus, the abnormal coupling between the auditory and somatosensory systems can result in the perception of tinnitus.

In individuals with somatic tinnitus (acoustic shock, cervical spine injuries, possibly TMJ, hearing damage, etc) there is a maladaptive plasticity in the DCN, which leads to an increased responsiveness of these multimodal neurons (fusiform cell clusters crossfire with other somatosensory neurons) to somatosensory inputs. Basically this heightened sensitivity causes an abnormal coupling between the auditory and somatosensory systems, leading to the perception of tinnitus and/or increased severity/reactivity.

 

[TashaJane]

Theories? This is very well explained in Dr. Shore's numerous papers.

...

Thank you, I understand and already knew that, but unless I am mistaken, doesn't she believe that all tinnitus occurs in the DCN? But not all the tones that I have are somatic. Hence asking if only some of my tones would benefit from her device or if all of them would.

 

[AnthonyMcDonald]

Thank you, I understand and already knew that, but unless I am mistaken, doesn't she believe that all tinnitus occurs in the DCN? But not all the tones that I have are somatic. Hence asking if only some of my tones would benefit from her device or if all of them would.

Dr. Shore answered this question vaguely in an email, something like "Yes, everyone has multiple tones", and something else about one somatic tone being enough. I won't be able to quote her response without digging through the entire thread, so I guess you can take my word for it.

About all tinnitus being in the DCN, I can tell you that's false, as far as I can tell, at least from what I've read. Some tinnitus occurs from mechanical causes (f*cked up stapes, middle ear issues, sinus infections, ETD, ear wax, etc. About TMJ - I believe this has to do with somatic crossfire with the DCN so it doesn't really count), which in part dissipates when the mechanical cause is resolved. Also, the DCN isn't the only part of the auditory pathway which is hyperactive (although I do believe "calming down" the DCN will spread the effects to the rest of it).

I believe the various causes I've mentioned above have more to do with pressure being put on the cochlea. I do believe that most forms of tinnitus have something to do with the DCN, obviously, as, to put it bluntly, all sound processing goes through there. As far as I can tell, there really isn't an answer to your question. If I remember correctly, Dr. Shore addressed this question as well, with an "we don't know yet". She also mentioned the trials will definitely continue in the future for purely non-somatic tinnitus.

 

[T Toledo OH]

After reading through all these pages, I still am not clear if Dr. Shore's device will help those with noise-induced tinnitus. Can any experts chime in?

 

[ErikaS]

Thank you, I understand and already knew that, but unless I am mistaken, doesn't she believe that all tinnitus occurs in the DCN? But not all the tones that I have are somatic. Hence asking if only some of my tones would benefit from her device or if all of them would.

I hear what you're saying @TashaJane. My most annoying tone (super high frequency/electric kind that is reactive) is somatic (thank God) but I acquired it from SSHL in my right ear. So not TMJ or neck related. However, I can manipulate it with jaw protrusion and biting down hard. It is the first tinnitus sound that came on for me, the rest followed and don't seem to be somatic except one in my left ear that changes or gets higher if I even touch my right ear canal (insane).

I don't think there is a exact answer for your question, but all we can do is HOPE that if we can lessen at least one tone and have that positive effect in the DCN, maybe the other tones will follow as you target them. I am personally hoping that since this is/was my ground zero tone and the others followed it, positively affecting this one will have a cascading positive affect on the others. Again, all hope.

 

[Mathew Gould]

Thank you, I understand and already knew that, but unless I am mistaken, doesn't she believe that all tinnitus occurs in the DCN? But not all the tones that I have are somatic. Hence asking if only some of my tones would benefit from her device or if all of them would.

Yes, I'm in the same boat, I can turn my head and sometimes alter my tinnitus, but I can never do it with my main static noise. Just the secondary tinnitus noises I can sometimes alter by turning my head or yawning.

 

[Nick47]

Thank you, I understand and already knew that, but unless I am mistaken, doesn't she believe that all tinnitus occurs in the DCN? But not all the tones that I have are somatic. Hence asking if only some of my tones would benefit from her device or if all of them would.

Somatic tinnitus is what has been studied and therefore the team thought the treatment would work best in this group of subjects. Therefore they selected subjects with somatic tinnitus in the trials. It does not mean it will not work on some people with non somatic tinnitus, but without evidence they will not make that assumption.

Yes, Dr. Shore has said boldly that the DCN is the route cause/area of the brainstem that generates tinnitus. She has never wavered from this.