New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

[linearb]

Let me briefly elaborate further:
If this operates on at least a partially relational equivalence and methodology as Lenire, then why have they been able to make this available to the consumer for almost a year whereas Shore's might not be available until 2022?

Leniere had approval in Ireland for an earlier version of their device, and they have basically just claimed this also applies to Leniere while also saying the tech has been improved and being cagey about publishing full data. So, no mystery there, they had UK clearance.

They do not have clearance in the US and it's very unclear if they will beat the UMich device here, or not.

If anyone involved in the current UMich study can speak to how Covid has affected it, I am interested to know -- I rather expect that has thrown a jackknife into the gears of all sorts of ongoing research.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To linearb:

Very insightful comment about "jackknife" delay. Yesterday AP News said that there may be 200,000 dead from COVID-19 in the US by October. However, much is opening back up around here.

On YouTube there is a somewhat recent, outstanding British Stage production of "Waiting For Godot." Every time (which is about 15) Vladimir conversed with Estragon: "Let's go / We can't / Why? / We're waiting for Godot", I thought of the argument I incessantly have with myself: "Give up hoping for a Real Treatment / You can't / Why?/ You're waiting for Susan Shore."

Last year my ENT Doctor said that it showed promise, but had thus far been tested on not a large enough sampling of patients for him to be able to form definitive conclusions about. It feels as if the Glaciers formed the Great Lakes in less time than it will take for me to undergo treatment with this.

 

[thinlay]

Will this work for the chronic cases, like if you have had tinnitus for more than 1 year?

 

[F-u-T]

Will thiswork for the chronic cases, like if you have had tinnitus for more than 1 year?

Yes.

 

[dan]

Will thiswork for the chronic cases, like if you have had tinnitus for more than 1 year?

I can see it now...

Susan Shore: "My thingie is ready for market..."
World: "Tinnitus has been cured"
Susan Shore: "Thank God, because my toy only works for mild tinnitus with no hearing loss, and only lucky people".

 

[Lucifer]

I can see it now...

Susan Shore: "My thingie is ready for market..."
World: "Tinnitus has been cured"
Susan Shore: "Thank God, because my toy only works for mild tinnitus with no hearing loss, and only lucky people".

This is why I believe Susan Shore will not be releasing this at all. By the time she releases it, tinnitus will be cured.

 

[GlennS]

This is my take:

Susan Shore finally emerges from her lab.

Susan Shore: "Eureka! My thingie is ready for market! Tinnitus has been cured!"

World:

 

[Jim51042]

I can see it now...

More like:

Susan Shore (5 years from now): "Our Phase 2 trial has been delayed 2 more years because (insert made-up irrelevant and vague excuse here), Also this device is not yet commercially available for "reasons"."
World: "Tinnitus has been cured"
Susan Shore: "Thank God. Now I don't have to pretend that I am trying".

 

[DaveFromChicago]

Just a speculation:

Are all of these seemingly never-ending, above-described reasons for delays and overly specific requirements really because her results have been (but not yet publicized) as disappointing and discouraging as those produced by Lenire?

 

[dan]

More like:

Susan Shore (5 years from now): "Our Phase 2 trial has been delayed 2 more years because (insert made-up irrelevant and vague excuse here), Also this device is not yet commercially available for "reasons"."
World: "Tinnitus has been cured"
Susan Shore: "Thank God. Now I don't have to pretend that I am trying".

LOL I like your version funnier.

 

[Mathew Gould]

How long away are we from a magic pill that cures tinnitus, if you had to guess??

 

[UKBloke]

I can see it now...

Susan Shore: "My thingie is ready for market..."
World: "Tinnitus has been cured"
Susan Shore: "Thank God, because my toy only works for mild tinnitus with no hearing loss, and only lucky people".

Don't forget the, "it also only treats patients with tinnitus onset of preferably < 1 year" criteria (coz y'know, treating anyone beyond the window of time when many report an easing of symptoms would be just too difficult).

 

[Mr.tdog15]

How long away are we from a magic pill that cures tinnitus, if you had to guess??

I'd like to know the same thing will we ever get a magic pill which will cure everybody tinnitus or is that impossible even in the next 50 years? ????

 

[Earman]

We all will be hearing silence again one day!

 

[dan]

We all will be hearing silence again one day!

In the grave.

 

[Fightthearmy]

Why are you guys throwing a tantrum at of Dr. Shore's device? Something she said in the few last months?

 

[Piney]

What device?

 

[Paulmanlike]

How long away are we from a magic pill that cures tinnitus, if you had to guess??

That's a good question and it deserves a big answer.

Bottom line is nobody knows; even if Frequency's FX-322 worked - the whole progenitor cell activation to cure deafness was pretty much a serendipitous discovery - they never set out to cure hearing loss.

 

[Lucifer]

Why are you guys throwing a tantrum at of Dr. Shore's device? Something she said in the few last months?

Because we know she is never going to release it and when she does there will be no need for it since hearing regeneration medicine will be out by then to solve tinnitus.

 

[Fightthearmy]

Because we know she is never going to release it

I don't know anything about this.

 

[Chinmoku]

I don't know anything about this.

She is being slower than a sloth under anesthesia in trying to bring this treatment to fruition, as I wrote elsewhere. She is a great and rigorous scientist but the time this is taking is crazy. She could save lives literally but this is taking forever.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To Chinmoku:

Out of curiousity I checked the date of our Chicago Tribune article about her tinnitus treatment, and it was in early January 2018. It implied that rigorous, substantial testing was already completed.

What has been occurring during the last two and one half years that could present such a formidable obstacle towards commercialization and release?

My only hope is that her real data so far is not as disappointing as Lenire's has been, which explains this truly baffling procrastination (especially regarding requirements for eligibility.)

No matter what, however, if my ENT Doctor said his practice offered it and there was a chance of some improvement I would immediately be the first to try it.

 

[Fightthearmy]

Ah, if she was surrounded only by smart people, and no fools.

 

[John Mahan]

She is being slower than a sloth under anesthesia in trying to bring this treatment to fruition, as I wrote elsewhere. She is a great and rigorous scientist but the time this is taking is crazy. She could save lives literally but this is taking forever.

Or... the taking forever without a tangible time line is because of the ineffective rollout of the Lenire device which is a close cousin and bi-modal stimulation doesn't have the efficacy across the board and will never be viable. More cynicism? This device aka its development is her job security. I don't like to believe the latter is true or criticize her without foundation but I believe the camp of being 'overly rigorous'... this ship is sailing or has sailed. Outside looking in, this device 'may' show marginal efficacy if any to the majority of tinnitus sufferers and tuning maybe both elusive and hyper sensitive and critical for 'any' sort of benefit. I believe the Leniere device has dashed many hopes... otherwise we would be all booking a plane ride to Europe in spite of COVID-19 . The hard to watch painful test protraction and half promises of any efficacy are more of a pipe dream.

Color me skeptical. If something is a slam dunk, I have to believe it would have passed muster by now.

My opinion of course.

 

[John Mahan]

That's a good question and it deserves a big answer.

Bottom line is nobody knows; even if Frequency's FX-322 worked - the whole progenitor cell activation to cure deafness was pretty much a serendipitous discovery - they never set out to cure hearing loss.

As is the case with many discoveries. Accidental. Pure invention out of the blue is extremely rare. Invention is mostly derivative. Association of cause and effect and trial and error.

 

[Amv]

My bet is that Lenire has a big competitive advantage. It now has a lot of data from patients, which allows them to improve and upgrade the device; this has happened in many industries.

I am still a big believer in Susan Shore, we supported her a lot with the STAT Madness and I will still support her, and I want to believe she is not launching the device until it perfectly works.

But I would also like to thank Lenire for launching the device, they have now a lot of feedback from patients and they can start an internal process to improve and upgrade their treatment in the following years.

If they both are reading this post, please don't stop trying to make our lives better!

 

[Fightthearmy]

As is the case with many discoveries. Accidental.

That's the way things go when you're finding your way in the dark. Medical scientists have come to access a tremendous wealth of information in the last decades. Many remaining medical challenges are merely engineering problems.

 

[F-u-T]

My bet is that Lenire has a big competitive advantage. It now has a lot of data from patients, which allows them to improve and upgrade the device; this has happened in many industries.

I am still a big believer in Susan Shore, we supported her a lot with the STAT Madness and I will still support her, and I want to believe she is not launching the device until it perfectly works.

But I would also like to thank Lenire for launching the device, they have now a lot of feedback from patients and they can start an internal process to improve and upgrade their treatment in the following years.

If they both are reading this post, please don't stop trying to make our lives better!

From what I've read on the two devices / treatment methods I believe the Shore device will be the most effective. Shore has published her research on the Bimodal timings that they found worked for reducing tinnitus. From what I have seen of Lenire's timings settings, none of them seem to match what Shore published as effective for reducing tinnitus. Hopefully we don't have to wait too much painstakingly longer to see results of Shore's current trial.

 

[TomBradyGOAT]

I still say if her device works, wait for Lenire to come to the US. She can then file a claim that she has a similar device and thus doesn't need any more trials.

 

[Chriscom]

As is the case with many discoveries. Accidental. Pure invention out of the blue is extremely rare. Invention is mostly derivative. Association of cause and effect and trial and error.

A lot of truth to this. E.g., from the web, The first name for penicillin was "mould juice." Scottish bacteriologist Alexander Fleming accidentally discovered the antibiotic in 1928, when he came back from a vacation and found that a green mold called Pennicilium notatum had contaminated Petri dishes in his lab … and were killing some of the bacteria he'd been growing.