New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

[AfroSnowman]

Does anyone know any fall/winter conferences that Dr. Shore will be speaking at? Sometime academics will present pre-published data at those.

I need a new date to circle on my calendar and be disappointed by.

 

[Joeseph Stope]

The US military does have some interest in this stuff, I'm not sure we've got an active thread for it but this study is investigating the TNF-alpha approach for veterans. I imagine if anyone else brings something promising to market they'll be all over it, but it seems like they're mostly interested in things they could roll out immediately and in frontline hospitals.

I guess those military people think practical. If some front-line soldiers are subject to an artillery attack, their supervisors know that the sooner the medical attention comes, the better. This includes tinnitus.

So if they can find Nature's "Quick Fix" for tinnitus, the sooner those Grunts are back on the front line.

They might also have an interest in helping the Vets with chronic tinnitus, but maybe that is a different department.

 

[GlennS]

I need a new date to circle on my calendar and be disappointed by.

Which is the path of the tinnitus sufferer.

 

[AfroSnowman]

Which is the path of the tinnitus sufferer.

View attachment 51478

You must be a blast at parties.

 

[BrysonKingMe]

I can understand people's negativity, as they have been let down countless times by "treatments" for tinnitus, but I don't really understand it here.

The device clearly works from the graph posted above. Maybe it doesn't work for everyone, but for the majority it seems like it will.

 

[Joey72]

Speaking from experience, the VA ENT clinics are no better than the public ones. I have TMJ and tinnitus. They WILL NOT treat my TMJ because it's considered dental work and dental is not covered unless it's service related or you are 70 percent disabled. So therefore they will not help with my tinnitus. Nice, huh?

 

[AxEars]

I guess those military people think practical. If some front-line soldiers are subject to an artillery attack, their supervisors know that the sooner the medical attention comes, the better. This includes tinnitus.

So if they can find Nature's "Quick Fix" for tinnitus, the sooner those Grunts are back on the front line.

They might also have an interest in helping the Vets with chronic tinnitus, but maybe that is a different department.

It's another reason why the military is interested in psilocybin and MDMA. Clear PTSD, and soldiers will return to the front lines.

 

[AfroSnowman]

Speaking from experience, the VA ENT clinics are no better than the public ones. I have TMJ and tinnitus. They WILL NOT treat my TMJ because it's considered dental work and dental is not covered unless it's service related or you are 70 percent disabled. So therefore they will not help with my tinnitus. Nice, huh?

I always wondered about the VA's tinnitus treatment protocol. I know they have a big book of instructions, but it looks like it all boils down to CBT and hearing aids, right?

 

[AfroSnowman]

I can understand people's negativity, as they have been let down countless times by "treatments" for tinnitus, but I don't really understand it here.

The device clearly works from the graph posted above. Maybe it doesn't work for everyone, but for the majority it seems like it will.

Well we have had a bunch of disappointments over the last 3 years where our expectations were based at least in part by promising research data and cool graphs (most prominently Frequency Therapeutics, Otonomy, Lenire).

So my personal emotional stance for Dr. Shore's device is modest optimism based upon what appears to be rock solid basic science backed by real world data, while braced for the reality that the next effective treatment for severe tinnitus will be the first one in history. I was emotionally crushed when the FX-322 failed, I realized that I let my hopes, based upon the Tinnitus Talk echo chamber, run away from me, putting me in a position to get really hurt when disappointing results were reported.

It is completely possible that now that she is testing hundreds of people instead of 20 that she discovers her device is far less effective than it appears. Personally I've got to make sure that I'm OK if that's the case, because it really might.

But boy it sure would be cool if the results are solid, maybe better with the longer use tested in this study. I still hold if I could get a 50% reduction I could fundamentally put tinnitus behind me, like the other 98% of tinnitus people do.

Go Team Shore!

 

[Joeseph Stope]

Well we have had a bunch of disappointments over the last 3 years where our expectations were based at least in part by promising research data and cool graphs (most prominently Frequency Therapeutics, Otonomy, Lenire).

So my personal emotional stance for Dr. Shore's device is modest optimism based upon what appears to be rock solid basic science backed by real world data, while braced for the reality that the next effective treatment for severe tinnitus will be the first one in history. I was emotionally crushed when the FX-322 failed, I realized that I let my hopes, based upon the Tinnitus Talk echo chamber, run away from me, putting me in a position to get really hurt when disappointing results were reported.

It is completely possible that now that she is testing hundreds of people instead of 20 that she discovers her device is far less effective than it appears. Personally I've got to make sure that I'm OK if that's the case, because it really might.

But boy it sure would be cool if the results are solid, maybe better with the longer use tested in this study. I still hold if I could get a 50% reduction I could fundamentally put tinnitus behind me, like the other 98% of tinnitus people do.

Go Team Shore!

I recall those glorious days of FX-322...

Believing that the cure was just around the corner was almost as good as a cure itself. Just like summer when you are young.

Who knows? Maybe summer and youth (well, sort of) will come around again.

 

[Joey72]

I always wondered about the VA's tinnitus treatment protocol. I know they have a big book of instructions, but it looks like it all boils down to CBT and hearing aids, right?

Yes.

 

[Rb86]

Well we have had a bunch of disappointments over the last 3 years where our expectations were based at least in part by promising research data and cool graphs (most prominently Frequency Therapeutics, Otonomy, Lenire).

So my personal emotional stance for Dr. Shore's device is modest optimism based upon what appears to be rock solid basic science backed by real world data, while braced for the reality that the next effective treatment for severe tinnitus will be the first one in history. I was emotionally crushed when the FX-322 failed, I realized that I let my hopes, based upon the Tinnitus Talk echo chamber, run away from me, putting me in a position to get really hurt when disappointing results were reported.

It is completely possible that now that she is testing hundreds of people instead of 20 that she discovers her device is far less effective than it appears. Personally I've got to make sure that I'm OK if that's the case, because it really might.

But boy it sure would be cool if the results are solid, maybe better with the longer use tested in this study. I still hold if I could get a 50% reduction I could fundamentally put tinnitus behind me, like the other 98% of tinnitus people do.

Go Team Shore!

I think her device has to be on to SOMETHING... Several potential treatments operate the same way with sound treatments you listen to, and she's been talking about this for what, 2 decades or something? That would be an impressive failure.

 

[dj_newark]

Which is the path of the tinnitus sufferer.

View attachment 51478

Captain Pessimism strikes again!

Look. The fact that there's no news from the Dr. Shore camp on the device is most likely a good thing! If they are taking their time getting the results out, it's most likely because they are solid. If the device fails spectacularly, we'll hear about it sooner. If the results are mediocre, it will probably still take a while to hear the results. But even a modest improvement would be a boon to most of our lives. And if the results are great, well that could be life changing.

So personally I'm hoping we hear nothing for a while. If we have to get the results in 2023 I'm sorta okay with that. Yes I'm suffering and I need a solution NOW. Thing is, I want a solution that WORKS. So if I have to wait for a useful treatment, so be it!

 

[Nick47]

The fact that there's no news from the Dr. Shore camp on the device is most likely a good thing! If they are taking their time getting the results out, it's most likely because they are solid. If the device fails spectacularly, we'll hear about it sooner. If the results are mediocre, it will probably still take a while to hear the results. But even a modest improvement would be a boon to most of our lives. And if the results are great, well that could be life changing.

So personally I'm hoping we hear nothing for a while. If we have to get the results in 2023 I'm sorta okay with that. Yes I'm suffering and I need a solution NOW. Thing is, I want a solution that WORKS. So if I have to wait for a useful treatment, so be it!

@dj_newark, sorry you're struggling. I agree with your points. I think Dr. Shore's device will have been 'sort of successful' and they are trying to make the figures look as good as possible. So let's hope.

Interesting: I just saw your first post from nearly 10 years ago. At the time you were hoping a vagus nerve study out of Dallas comes to market.

Better wishes in 2022 for us all!

 

[dj_newark]

@dj_newark, sorry you're struggling. I agree with your points. I think Dr. Shore's device will have been 'sort of successful' and they are trying to make the figures look as good as possible. So let's hope.

Interesting: I just saw your first post from nearly 10 years ago. At the time you were hoping a vagus nerve study out of Dallas comes to market.

Better wishes in 2022 for us all!

Thanks, I appreciate that. I was wondering what you are basing your opinion that Dr. Shore's device is 'sort of successful' on? We don't have any hard data to base any opinions on currently. All we have at the moment is hope competing with pessimism.

That's true. 10 years ago I was trying to get into a vagus nerve stimulator study by a company called MicroTransponder. I did get into that study! And it reduced my tinnitus by 15 dB. However, having started with about 65 dB in each ear, that wasn't enough to provide relief. I used the device for over 3 years. The trial only lasted 6 months and they let me keep the device after that. After the trial, it was pure experimentation with the company to get the device to work! And that's when the 15 dB improvement happened. But after that, even after extensive experimentation we weren't able to gain any further improvements. And I had the device removed.

But based on my experience with the MicroTransponder, I am hopeful that Dr. Shore's approach, which is similar in nature but non-invasive could be the golden ticket we are all looking for!

 

[LostinTX]

Thanks, I appreciate that. I was wondering what you are basing your opinion that Dr. Shore's device is 'sort of successful' on? We don't have any hard data to base any opinions on currently. All we have at the moment is hope competing with pessimism.

That's true. 10 years ago I was trying to get into a vagus nerve stimulator study by a company called MicroTransponder. I did get into that study! And it reduced my tinnitus by 15 dB. However, having started with about 65 dB in each ear, that wasn't enough to provide relief. I used the device for over 3 years. The trial only lasted 6 months and they let me keep the device after that. After the trial, it was pure experimentation with the company to get the device to work! And that's when the 15 dB improvement happened. But after that, even after extensive experimentation we weren't able to gain any further improvements. And I had the device removed.

But based on my experience with the MicroTransponder, I am hopeful that Dr. Shore's approach, which is similar in nature but non-invasive could be the golden ticket we are all looking for!

Are you in Dallas? I'm here and saw that company at one point in my searches. Did they abandon the MicroTransponder?

 

[GlennS]

I'm hoping we hear nothing for a while.

That's one good way to avoid disappointment. I bet you'll get what you hope to get.

 

[EDDTEKK]

10 years ago I was trying to get into a vagus nerve stimulator study by a company called MicroTransponder. I did get into that study! And it reduced my tinnitus by 15 dB. However, having started with about 65 dB in each ear, that wasn't enough to provide relief.

15 dB reduction is quite a lot. Are you sure? Normally tinnitus is between 5-25 dB in loudness above your hearing threshold.

I haven't heard any news about MicroTransponder and Dr. Kilgard. Did they stop the investigations?

 

[Mathew Gould]

4 to 6 thousand? So it will be unaffordable for 90% of the population? Bad business strategy.

$4,000 - $6,000 in the year 2047 won't be that much money. With ongoing inflation it will be like $500 today.

 

[BrysonKingMe]

15 dB reduction is quite a lot. Are you sure? Normally tinnitus is between 5-25 dB in loudness above your hearing threshold.

I believe he would know how loud his own tinnitus is.

 

[Fields]

@dj_newark, 15 dB sounds impressive! It's unfortunate that it didn't provide the relief you were hoping for.

If I may ask a question: has the 15 dB reduction persisted up until today, or did it wear off over time?

 

[dj_newark]

Are you in Dallas? I'm here and saw that company at one point in my searches. Did they abandon the MicroTransponder?

No, I am in New Jersey. I participated in the MicroTransponder study up in Buffalo NY. I had to travel up to Buffalo every 3 months to be tested for my hearing and tinnitus, and to have the device calibrated.

15 dB reduction is quite a lot. Are you sure? Normally tinnitus is between 5-25 dB in loudness above your hearing threshold.

I haven't heard any news about MicroTransponder and Dr. Kilgard. Did they stop the investigations?

Yes, I am sure. I went to the University of Buffalo to have my hearing loss and tinnitus tested. In the 3 years I participated in the program my tinnitus masking levels were extremely consistent.

About a year and a half of my using the device, I went there and they noted a 15 dB reduction in my masking levels. I was astounded! The researchers were actually crying and celebrating as was my wife. I am very sure of the reduction even though it never provided me the relief that I'd hoped for!

MicroTransponder as a company actually had 2 products. The Serenity System was the VNS device for tinnitus. And the Vivistim was their device for stroke rehabilitation. To the best of my knowledge they'd stopped development of the Serenity System for a while to focus on the the Vivistim for stroke rehabilitation, due to lack of funding to pursue both.

They were successful in turning the Vivistim into a viable product that has been released to the public and has been successful in helping stroke victims.

My hope is that the success of the Vivistim device will help them pursue their tinnitus treatment again. I am in contact with the company rep I was dealing with while I was in the program. He told me that they haven't abandoned the Serenity System because of the lack of funding. He also told me that they expected the company to get more funding in the fall of this year (right around the corner) and that they hope to continue development of the device for tinnitus.

I haven't heard this from the guy I was dealing with at MicroTransponder, but in other threads here on Tinnitus Talk, I've read that they have a new and improved device for tinnitus that they are working on. I hope that's the case, and that the new funding they will be getting can help them turn the tinnitus device into a viable product the way they did with the stroke device!

If I may ask a question: has the 15 dB reduction persisted up until today, or did it wear off over time?

Yes it has. I've had my tinnitus tested as recently as a year ago, and the masking levels were the same as after I'd had the reduction in masking levels up in Buffalo. Thank you, yes I am still disappointed that I never experienced relief despite the reduction of 15 dB in my masking levels.

That's one good way to avoid disappointment. I bet you'll get what you hope to get.

Aren't you a little ray of sunshine? Your negativity is serving no one, not even yourself. These tinnitus forums are always an echo chamber of negativity, and you are part of the problem.

I realize you are suffering, so am I. I too have been disappointed many times by lack of progress towards treatment. But I refuse to give up hope.

15 dB reduction is quite a lot. Are you sure? Normally tinnitus is between 5-25 dB in loudness above your hearing threshold.

I haven't heard any news about MicroTransponder and Dr. Kilgard. Did they stop the investigations?

Normally, yes, this is correct. But I was measured as having 65 dB of tinnitus in each ear at the start of the study. That was before the 15 dB reduction in volume. I am an extreme case. Mine is not your typical case of tinnitus.

 

[Johnny_0620]

Yes it has. I've had my tinnitus tested as recently as a year ago, and the masking levels were the same as after I'd had the reduction in masking levels up in Buffalo. Thank you, yes I am still disappointed that I never experienced relief despite the reduction of 15 dB in my masking levels.

Hey, I just want to thank you for sharing this info. This is yet another treatment that shows promise that could be released in the next decade. I think that SOMEthing to help is coming. Even if it's just a reduction like yours was. I think all of us will appreciate it when they start up research and development on that product again.

Keep us posted on it if you can!

 

[justguts]

If this miracle device ever comes out in 2023 (and works), I'll seriously eat a shoe on camera.

 

[dj_newark]

Hey, I just want to thank you for sharing this info. This is yet another treatment that shows promise that could be released in the next decade. I think that SOMEthing to help is coming. Even if it's just a reduction like yours was. I think all of us will appreciate it when they start up research and development on that product again.

Keep us posted on it if you can!

Cool, yes, will do. You are welcome. I think that the MicroTransponder for tinnitus could very well come out this decade. But I'm hoping much sooner for the Dr. Shore device which I'm hoping will be in the next year or two. I have much more faith in Dr. Shore's treatment than I do in the MicroTransponder.

 

[Johnny_0620]

But I'm hoping much sooner for the Dr. Shore device which I'm hoping will be in the next year or two.

Oh absolutely dude. I think Dr. Shore's device has a lot of potential. I'm trying not to get too hyped about it but it's kind of hard, seeing that the first phase was great. Hopefully we hear news soon! I will try her device as soon as my local ENT gets it.

 

[dj_newark]

Oh absolutely dude. I think Dr. Shore's device has a lot of potential. I'm trying not to get too hyped about it but it's kind of hard, seeing that the first phase was great. Hopefully we hear news soon! I will try her device as soon as my local ENT gets it.

Yeah I think it has a lot of potential. I just hope that 2023 is the magic number. I will be surprised if it comes out then, but at least we should have the results by that time. I really hope it can come out that same year, but I am not banking on it!

 

[@dam]

Here is a recap of the timeline of Dr. Shore's device:

• June 2013: This thread started
• November 2016: Phase 1 began
• May 2017: Phase 1 Completed
• August 2018: Phase 2 Began
• August 2022: Phase 2 Completed

Also we need to consider how COVID-19 affected 2020 and 2021.

 

[Rb86]

No, I am in New Jersey. I participated in the MicroTransponder study up in Buffalo NY. I had to travel up to Buffalo every 3 months to be tested for my hearing and tinnitus, and to have the device calibrated.

Yes, I am sure. I went to the University of Buffalo to have my hearing loss and tinnitus tested. In the 3 years I participated in the program my tinnitus masking levels were extremely consistent.

About a year and a half of my using the device, I went there and they noted a 15 dB reduction in my masking levels. I was astounded! The researchers were actually crying and celebrating as was my wife. I am very sure of the reduction even though it never provided me the relief that I'd hoped for!

MicroTransponder as a company actually had 2 products. The Serenity System was the VNS device for tinnitus. And the Vivistim was their device for stroke rehabilitation. To the best of my knowledge they'd stopped development of the Serenity System for a while to focus on the the Vivistim for stroke rehabilitation, due to lack of funding to pursue both.

They were successful in turning the Vivistim into a viable product that has been released to the public and has been successful in helping stroke victims.

My hope is that the success of the Vivistim device will help them pursue their tinnitus treatment again. I am in contact with the company rep I was dealing with while I was in the program. He told me that they haven't abandoned the Serenity System because of the lack of funding. He also told me that they expected the company to get more funding in the fall of this year (right around the corner) and that they hope to continue development of the device for tinnitus.

I haven't heard this from the guy I was dealing with at MicroTransponder, but in other threads here on Tinnitus Talk, I've read that they have a new and improved device for tinnitus that they are working on. I hope that's the case, and that the new funding they will be getting can help them turn the tinnitus device into a viable product the way they did with the stroke device!

Yes it has. I've had my tinnitus tested as recently as a year ago, and the masking levels were the same as after I'd had the reduction in masking levels up in Buffalo. Thank you, yes I am still disappointed that I never experienced relief despite the reduction of 15 dB in my masking levels.

Aren't you a little ray of sunshine? Your negativity is serving no one, not even yourself. These tinnitus forums are always an echo chamber of negativity, and you are part of the problem.

I realize you are suffering, so am I. I too have been disappointed many times by lack of progress towards treatment. But I refuse to give up hope.

Normally, yes, this is correct. But I was measured as having 65 dB of tinnitus in each ear at the start of the study. That was before the 15 dB reduction in volume. I am an extreme case. Mine is not your typical case of tinnitus.

Sorry if I missed it, but do I understand correctly, you had 65 dB of tinnitus years ago, used their device which caused a 15 dB reduction, which has remained consistent years later? I know that it didn't give the relief you've wanted or needed but still, an absolutely fascinating tip of the hat to this science.

My question would be - how did you acquire tinnitus and is it possible yours naturally "calmed down" 15 dB on its own over time?

I've had mine 3 years and it has calmed down after the first few months but still pesters me pretty bad to this day.

 

[dj_newark]

Sorry if I missed it, but do I understand correctly, you had 65 dB of tinnitus years ago, used their device which caused a 15 dB reduction, which has remained consistent years later? I know that it didn't give the relief you've wanted or needed but still, an absolutely fascinating tip of the hat to this science.

My question would be - how did you acquire tinnitus and is it possible yours naturally "calmed down" 15 dB on its own over time?

I've had mine 3 years and it has calmed down after the first few months but still pesters me pretty bad to this day.

Yes it's fascinating that my tinnitus reduced by 15 dB. I really don't think that it calmed down naturally. I've had it for 30 years and it's been off the charts severe for 20 years. It's a miracle this happened, but it did not provide relief.

I got tinnitus from loud noise exposure, playing in bands and going to see concerts. It got worse I think when I started taking psych meds to deal with the noise I was experiencing. Those meds were ototoxic and that's what I think sent the tinnitus into an extremely severe state.

I've never had any improvement in my tinnitus that occurred "naturally" in the course of my having tinnitus for over 30 years. The fact that I was actively using the MicroTransponder for 9 hours a day and going up to Buffalo to have my hearing and tinnitus tested and that was the only time in 30 years I've ever had any improvement in this condition tells me all I need to know about what caused the reduction! I have no doubt whatsoever that the MicroTransponder is what caused the reduction in my tinnitus.