New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

[Jim Vasilakis]

Yes absolutely. Acoustic trauma seems to be the largest cause of hyperacusis along with others, like ototoxic medications, head injury, etc. It's not surprising that around 85% of those with hyperacusis also have tinnitus, both of which were likely caused by noise damage in most cases.

Additionally, I was just reading a statistic that said over 50% of people with pain hyperacusis can attribute it to a single noise exposure that they previously received, so yes noise damage is definitely a primary cause, although how similar the type of damage is is a little difficult to say.

From my understanding (maybe others with more knowledge can chime in), loudness hyperacusis is caused by issues with auditory gain, just like tinnitus, while pain hyperacusis seems to be caused by issues with the Type II nerves and/or middle ear muscles. So I assume Susan Shore's device could have some success with loudness hyperacusis since it's very similar to tinnitus, but I really don't know if it will do anything to help pain hyperacusis.

Does that mean that loudness hyperacusis happens exclusively at the cochlea? Because if that's the case, the device will almost certainly help.

 

[Nick47]

Does that mean that loudness hyperacusis happens exclusively at the cochlea? Because if that's the case, the device will almost certainly help.

It treats hyperactivity in the dorsal cochlear nucleus, not the cochlea. The DCN is in the brainstem.

 

[Hardwell]

Out of curiosity, and I'm sure I could find the answer if I delved further into these posts, but I'm sure the ones that are active on this thread will have the answers to memory anyway.

How much funding has the Dr. Shore's device received since its inception? And what makes this fundamentally more promising than the failed Dublin shite box, aka Lenire?

 

[eagerUser]

Out of curiosity, and I'm sure I could find the answer if I delved further into these posts, but I'm sure the ones that are active on this thread will have the answers to memory anyway.

How much funding has the Dr. Shore's device received since its inception? And what makes this fundamentally more promising than the failed Dublin shite box, aka Lenire?

It is backed by 20 years of research.

We have seen the effects it made in the first trial. @linearb was part of the first trial. Search for his experience.

We are waiting for the results of the second trial which is even more promising. The device can improve the condition by 70% (correct me if I am mistaken). Unfortunately, like every treatment, it doesn't work for all but will help many.

Anyway, we have to wait till it is out but it looks promising.

 

[Jim Vasilakis]

It treats hyperactivity in the dorsal cochlear nucleus, not the cochlea. The DCN is in the brainstem.

Sorry, I assumed the DCN is in the cochlear area, I'm not well versed with ear as I tend not to look at too many details for my peace of mind lol.

But loudness hyperacusis does happen in the cochlear area most of the time, right? That's the area that gets damaged and produces the condition, correct?

 

[Utdmad89]

The device can improve the condition by 70% (correct me if I am mistaken). Unfortunately, like every treatment, it doesn't work for all but will help many.

75% in loudness reduction.

 

[Hardwell]

It is backed by 20 years of research.

I know this is a promising point for most people but, unfortunately, duration of research isn't a precursor for how effective said treatment will be. Only thing it does assure me of is this has been conducted and researched for all the right reasons and isn't just another get rich scheme.

Anyway, we have to wait till it is out but it looks promising.

I certainly hope so, I just think I'm being very pessimistic at present due to my own circumstances of a spike/worsening. Two weeks ago I wouldn't have even taken this treatment if it was guaranteed and free. Today I'd chop my own member off to receive this treatment even it was a 50/50 gamble.

We have seen the effects it made in the first trial. @linearb was part of the first trial. Search for his experience.

I will go through and read through his experiences shortly.

With that being said, I'm glad there's something on the horizon giving people hope. Whether it is false hope, we will have to see.

People need a reason to hang in there and if this is currently providing some people with that purpose, then I am at least grateful for that.

 

[Nick47]

But loudness hyperacusis does happen in the cochlear area most of the time, right? That's the area that gets damaged and produces the condition, correct?

No worries @Jim Vasilakis.

I've got absolutely no idea why hyperacusis happens. I leave that to the experts but they don't know either lol.

 

[eagerUser]

isn't just another get rich scheme.

Exactly, Dr. Shore is a legit scientist who is the main researcher of this device and that's what makes us think the device is something of value.

For now, let's stay optimistic that this device does what it has to. If so, I hope there will be more research based on Dr. Shore's findings, and that means better treatments/a cure for tinnitus and other auditory symptoms.

 

[JimmyStrong]

Exactly, Dr. Shore is a legit scientist who is the main researcher of this device and that's what makes us think the device is something of value.

For now, let's stay optimistic that this device does what it has to. If so, I hope there will be more research based on Dr. Shore's findings, and that means better treatments/a cure for tinnitus and other auditory symptoms.

I think it's safe to say that after the launch of Dr. Shore's device, it would be advisable to live your life, because a tinnitus cure and a full hearing loss cure seems far out of our lifetime.

 

[eagerUser]

I think it's safe to say that after the launch of Dr. Shore's device, it would be advisable to live your life, because a tinnitus cure and a full hearing loss cure seems far out of our lifetime.

I wish I could disagree. But, who knows? 10 years ago we didn't know how far technology could go. We don't know where we will be in 10 years regarding hearing issues. Then again, if a regenerative pill is found, do you think hearing aid companies let it go to the market easily!

Wait! What if Dr. Shore's device is the cure we are looking for?

 

[sayokandex]

I think it's safe to say that after the launch of Dr. Shore's device, it would be advisable to live your life, because a tinnitus cure and a full hearing loss cure seems far out of our lifetime.

I do not agree. The progress of technology and science continues with a logarithmic increase. If we look at the number of articles published on tinnitus by years, it is a fact that something has been revealed. It may not be enough, but it won't last a lifetime.

 

[AfroSnowman]

I do not agree. The progress of technology and science continues with a logarithmic increase. If we look at the number of articles published on tinnitus by years, it is a fact that something has been revealed. It may not be enough, but it won't last a lifetime.

Sadly the corresponding graph of effective tinnitus treatments introduced over the same time shows a strait line of x=0.

Now maybe there will be 1. I sure wish we had some update, a conference to look forward to, a potential time goalpost that is being approached. Waiting without any update on the the process for the release of Shore's device is tough.

 

[Jonno02]

A pill or injection to cure tinnitus would be lovely. But until then, I'm happy strapping this thing to my head for 30 minutes a day, given it works.

 

[DimLeb]

I do not agree. The progress of technology and science continues with a logarithmic increase. If we look at the number of articles published on tinnitus by years, it is a fact that something has been revealed. It may not be enough, but it won't last a lifetime.

Yeah, the progress of science and technology follows a logarithmic increase. But medical stuff aren't exactly that. They need to go through a long process of stages like discovery, animal trials, human trials, safety, effectiveness, bureaucracy, local country's restrictions etc, before they become available to the average person.

Even if the cure is discovered today, it will take a minimum of 10 years to know that it is the cure and even longer to become available. Especially with hearing stuff that is so underfunded... It's sad tbh.

 

[XiviaN]

I wonder if Dr Shore's device might work in my case. I've seen it mentioned that it could work for noise-induced tinnitus but I got mine from a bout of SSHL (albeit slight in my left ear, though my tinnitus is quite loud).

How is somatic tinnitus different to other kinds of tinnitus?

Apologies if my question comes across as stupid. I'm somewhat new to all of this.

 

[AnthonyMcDonald]

How is somatic tinnitus different to other kinds of tinnitus?

Somatic tinnitus is tinnitus that can be modulated/changed in pitch/tone/volume by any physical movements, especially the the neck, jaw, and pressing in places around the head.

 

[TashaJane]

How is somatic tinnitus different to other kinds of tinnitus?

You can manipulate the sound with jaw, head or neck movements

 

[eagerUser]

Regarding hyperacusis:

Some people develop hyperacusis/noxacusis after the onset of their tinnitus. So, it is not unreasonable to say that after the improvement of their tinnitus, their hyperacusis, as a result, will have improvements. Who knows? My 2 cents!

 

[Jonno02]

I know that sound alone produced no significant improvement. Sound and electrical stimulation produced the great results we've seen in the latest trial, but did they ever try electrical stimulation on its own?

A lot of panic here from people unsure if they can actually hear their target frequency due to hearing loss, but I can't remember if they investigated electrical stimulation alone?

 

[linearb]

And @linearb, who participated in the Phase 1 trial, said it was basically a broadband square wave sound played by the device?

I am going to back off saying it was a square wave, it was an enveloped beep of some kind that was less harsh than just listening to a bunch of gate signals is. But I think the duration of the sound, the space between the sound and the electric impulse, and the ability of the sound to get into the ranges where tinnitus occurred, were all things the researchers found important.

How did you find the transition back to baseline after a subjectively perceived drop in volume?

It was traumatic and induced a sense of sadness and loss, which was prevented from spiraling into absolute panic simply because I believed (and continue to believe) this will be marketed as a product.

Thank you for sharing! Wow, encouraging to know that even though you had multiple tones that oscillated, you still saw/heard notable decrease and improvement. That's amazing.

I really don't think the way the tinnitus presents matters too much in terms of this treatment, assuming we're talking about CNS-related tinnitus and not something with a vascular cause or the myriad other less common things that can impact hearing. My belief is that what you hear has something to do with where the damage is, something to do with your lived experience of sound, and something to do with how your specific brain changes and wires that stuff up relevant to your moment to moment lived experience. I know the nature and sounds of my head span a big spectrum and while there's some clear triggers (TMJ abuse or dislocation provokes specific tea-kettle stuff), there's also some relation to emotional state. I've had some interesting experiences trying to meditate on the sounds and watching it turn into an impossible-to-pin down set of sonic dancers in my consciousness which refuse to be located spatially, and actually expand in unpredictable ways if given calm conscious space to do so.

Just my .02, as we wait for UMich to hurry their game up

 

[ErikaS]

Just my .02, as we wait for UMich to hurry their game up

Great feedback, thank you @linearb! I sure hope Auricle (and more importantly the FDA) realize on a daily basis that the sooner this device gets to market, they will literally save at least one life, if not many.

 

[T Toledo OH]

Just my .02, as we wait for UMich to hurry their game up

So the relief you received using the device made a big enough difference that when you stopped, you began to struggle again? If that is so, there may be hope. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Josh59]

I am going to back off saying it was a square wave, it was an enveloped beep of some kind that was less harsh than just listening to a bunch of gate signals is. But I think the duration of the sound, the space between the sound and the electric impulse, and the ability of the sound to get into the ranges where tinnitus occurred, were all things the researchers found important.

Thank you for your testimony and your opinion @linearb. Beyond the increase of your tinnitus as you mention it, especially with the TMJ, what was originally the main cause of your tinnitus?

 

[linearb]

Thank you for your testimony and your opinion @linearb. Beyond the increase of your tinnitus as you mention it, especially with the TMJ, what was originally the main cause of your tinnitus?

I don't actually know, so here's a long and maybe boring case history!

When I was 19, at onset, I'd already had exposure to:

• ADHD drugs that caused teeth grinding
• SSRIs and some recreational drugs
• Several concerts with no hearing protection
• History of childhood ear infections, some severe and scarred ear drum
• 2 car accidents with substantial whiplash
• First exposure to HSV virus (cold sores, this virus lives forever in the cranial nerves)

The onset followed the onset of visual symptoms (afterimages, trails, strobing colors) and actually at the time the visual stuff was much more distressing. I read somewhere that someone with these symptoms "often" also has tinnitus. I remember sitting in a college computer lab reading that, then plugging my ears, and... EEEEEE. I completely freaked out and this led to my first stint on Klonopin, 1999-2005.

However, I do think that at that time anxiety was a much bigger part of the picture than the tinnitus -- as I said, I had to plug my ears to hear it!

The thing that made it worse into the loud machines it is today, was going to an insanely loud concert in 2010, knowing it was insanely loud and damaging and panicking about that but also not simply leaving because my significant other was there too and at the time I had serious, serious anxiety about their safety if "left alone in the city" (totally dumb, it was a safe part of the city and they are a smart person). Both my significant other and a friend at the show reported lingering tinnitus and muffling the next day, but they were both fine a week later and I was left with permanently increased tinnitus thresholds.

I've gone to plenty of concerts, shot firearms, used chainsaws, ridden motorcycles, etc since then so far without causing any additional problems I am aware of, but, I do all these things with double ear protection. I also gave up the motorcycle, more for physical safety/family reasons than noise, but, having gotten rid of it, if I ever get another "fast" 2-wheel thing it's going to be a Sur-R0n e-dirtbike or a Zero e-motorcycle. We have Juiced e-bikes now, they go about 28 mph with pedal assist which is not loud enough for wind noise to bother me through a helmet.

When I ski, I don't wear earplugs, but I tend to ski slowly in the woods. If I was just bombing groomers all day at 40-50 mph, I would wear earplugs under my helmet.

So the relief you received using the device made a big enough difference that when you stopped, you began to struggle again? If that is so, there may be hope. Thank you for sharing.

Oh yea, prior to the thing kicking in I was rating my subjective volume and distress at around a 7 every day on a 10 point scale; during the period of time the device was effective my ratings were 2-3.

I don't keep track of stuff like that anymore (it was part of the study; I find it counterproductive generally to track my tinnitus in that level of detail) but I'd say the best stability I get from the meds I take is more like, 3-5 range depending on the day. Still a massive improvement over baseline, but more dangerous and less effective than the device was so I certainly hope they sell it to me soon.

I know there's a lot of concern about time since onset being a factor -- I am not worried about that, since I'd had tinnitus for ~18 years and badly for ~6-7 years at the time I did the study. That's certainly long enough for my brain to have plasticized the changes a lot, and I know it has, simply because of the number of totally bizarre lucid dreams I've had about my tinnitus, this stuff has permeated my subconscious down to the floor eeeEEEeeeEEEEE

 

[Monkee Man]

@linearb, thank you for posting your experience! Have you ever suffered from hyperacusis (loudness or pain/noxacusis) or any type of sensitivity to sound? If so, did you notice any effect at all on the sensitivity while experiencing relief from tinnitus symptoms when using the device?

 

[Johannes9090]

The onset followed the onset of visual symptoms (afterimages, trails, strobing colors) and actually at the time the visual stuff was much more distressing.

@linearb, do you still have your visual symptoms?

 

[AnthonyMcDonald]

A pill or injection to cure tinnitus would be lovely. But until then, I'm happy strapping this thing to my head for 30 minutes a day, given it works.

The results persisted and people continued improving after the second trial was finished. I'm guessing because of some fine-tuning Susan Shore did to her device. We won't have to use it constantly.

 

[AfroSnowman]

The results persisted and people continued improving after the second trial was finished. I'm guessing because of some fine-tuning Susan Shore did to her device. We won't have to use it constantly.

I think I recall her suggesting in an interview a couple years back that once it got knocked down, maybe you'd just use it periodically or if it started to come back.

 

[Fightthearmy]

Great feedback, thank you @linearb! I sure hope Auricle (and more importantly the FDA) realize on a daily basis that the sooner this device gets to market, they will literally save at least one life, if not many.

Supposing that saving lives is in any of the FDA's interests, it's pretty utopistic that any institution would accredit self-harm to anything except mental illness - as in, any normal, healthy person should be able to cope with a 90 dB constant noise in their ears.