New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

[diesal11]

Why do you think it's a bit of a mess? The setup steps in the slides looks quite thorough and it's obviously designed to be run with specific hardware to generate calibrated tones.

I actually think it looks quite decent.

I was talking purely from a software perspective. It's written in Visual Basic 6 which had its final release in the 90s. The codebase has the same app duplicated multiple times cross many folders and all of the code for the app lives in more or less one file, the software for the PA5 requires installing drivers that don't seem to work on modern versions of Windows.

To be honest, none of that is particularly uncommon for Research code, but if TinnTester is forming part of a commercial process it will need some work, rewritten to use an attenuator or consistent device that's more readily available. I think the approach itself is solid & the measurements far more reliable than TFI/THI scores.

 

[gameover]

I was talking purely from a software perspective. It's written in Visual Basic 6 which had its final release in the 90s. The codebase has the same app duplicated multiple times cross many folders and all of the code for the app lives in more or less one file, the software for the PA5 requires installing drivers that don't seem to work on modern versions of Windows.

To be honest, none of that is particularly uncommon for Research code, but if TinnTester is forming part of a commercial process it will need some work, rewritten to use an attenuator or consistent device that's more readily available. I think the approach itself is solid & the measurements far more reliable than TFI/THI scores.

That's discouraging to read.

I came to this thread to write that the prospect of Shore device is honestly perhaps the only thing keeping me alive. Really sad to off oneself without trying something that has a real chance to reduce the torment.

 

[Jonno02]

I was talking purely from a software perspective. It's written in Visual Basic 6 which had its final release in the 90s. The codebase has the same app duplicated multiple times cross many folders and all of the code for the app lives in more or less one file, the software for the PA5 requires installing drivers that don't seem to work on modern versions of Windows.

To be honest, none of that is particularly uncommon for Research code, but if TinnTester is forming part of a commercial process it will need some work, rewritten to use an attenuator or consistent device that's more readily available. I think the approach itself is solid & the measurements far more reliable than TFI/THI scores.

Ah ok, thanks for the clarifications.

I'm not sure why they would have done that for software like this, but I have to laugh as it hits close to home.

We use custom written software made by third party vendors for some of our lab instruments at work. A lot of the machines still run Windows XP either because other software packages used for the instruments had their last update years ago or because nobody can be bothered installing it all on a new machine and going through nearly a year worth of re-validation work.

 

[diesal11]

I'm not sure why they would have done that for software like this

They didn't write it. TinnTester was originally developed by Larry Roberts at McMaster University in Canada, not sure when but the earliest reference I could find was from a paper of his from 2007 where it was used in some research for residual inhibition.

Looks like Shore & Co. have done some tweaks but it still seems to be the same program as described in the paper:

Each tool was programmed in Visual Basic running in Windows XP-Pro...At McMaster, sounds were delivered by a Creative Audigy2 sound card that was connected to a Tucker Davis PA5 attenuator and then to Sennheisser HDA-200 headphones through a Tucker Davis HB7 headphone buffer. All stimulus attenuation was done by the PA5 in order to preserve signal quality.

I think this is perhaps why this Repository has been left public and on a newly branded Auricle page at that. They wouldn't be silly enough to just accidentally leave their code open to the public like that. My guess is that when they acquired it from Dr. Roberts, they were asked to keep future developments public and are respecting that, or their license requires it.

but I have to laugh as it hits close to home.

Haha, it's really not an uncommon story. At this point I'm convinced every lab a has some ancient PC with Windows XP running 20-year-old software no one knows how to update. Just in a corner holding the whole operation together

On another note, is Auricle's GitHub profile technically the first we've seen of their branding? I can't recall seeing that logo before?

 

[Muggumbo]

That's discouraging to read.

I came to this thread to write that the prospect of Shore device is honestly perhaps the only thing keeping me alive. Really sad to off oneself without trying something that has a real chance to reduce the torment.

I wouldn't worry about the software aspect of it. Sounds like the tool works but is just written in a junky way. There are tons of programs like this out in the wild (some of them run critical infrastructure). It's more of a concern for the people that have to install it and maintain it than the patients.

 

[marathonterri]

Dr. Susan Shore is now working at the University of California, Irvine at the Center for Hearing Research. You can check the website for more information.

 

[annV]

Dr. Susan Shore is now working at the University of California, Irvine at the Center for Hearing Research. You can check the website for more information.

This is correct.

She's in the same department with Dr. Hamid Djalilian.

Faculty Directory: Center for Hearing Research

 

[gameover]

That's odd. So much for "emerita" at UMich. You would think Auricle should occupy more than a lion's share of her time at this point.

I am not getting good vibes about it.

 

[chinup]

That's odd. So much for "emerita" at UMich. You would think Auricle should occupy more than a lion's share of her time at this point.

I am not getting good vibes about it.

Well Auricle appears to be headquartered in San Francisco. I also like the idea of multiple tinnitus experts linking up in the same department.

Just not sure why she had to leave UMich., that does seem a bit odd.

 

[gameover]

Well Auricle appears to be headquartered in San Francisco. I also like the idea of multiple tinnitus experts linking up in the same department.

Just not sure why she had to leave UMich., that does seem a bit odd.

Well, she probably did not leave. She is still listed as Emerita. And her email listed on the UCI page is from UMich.

Yeah, let's hope it bodes well for some future new research. I just hope Auricle will finally start visibly making progress.

 

[Nick47]

That's odd. So much for "emerita" at UMich. You would think Auricle should occupy more than a lion's share of her time at this point.

I am not getting good vibes about it.

I take the opposite view. She has all but 'in name' left the UoM. What research facilities does she have access to at Auricle? The Shore Lab at the UoM has closed and funding is probably over for tinnitus research.

She now has access to research facilities again and has teamed up with a tinnitus researcher and clinician.

 

[Jonno02]

I take the opposite view. She has all but 'in name' left the UoM. What research facilities does she have access to at Auricle? The Shore Lab at the UoM has closed and funding is probably over for tinnitus research.

She now has access to research facilities again and has teamed up with a tinnitus researcher and clinician.

Good point.

@gameover, don't stress about this too much either way. People that develop medical treatments like Dr. Shore don't really get involved much at all in the submission side of things. She's an expert in tinnitus/her pathway for a treatment. She's not a Regulatory Affairs (RA) expert. Once the scientific data is presented in an acceptable way by her, the RA experts take over. Until the FDA come back with further information requests/clarifications, she'll have very little involvement with the submission.

We don't really know what's going on behind the scenes at Auricle, so there could be business managers running that side of things.

It's really nothing to worry about IMO.

 

[BadNeighbors]

As a former academic, I don't see any overtly negative issues with Dr. Shore's switch of University of Michigan to University of California, Irvine. If anything, it shows me Dr. Shore is a big deal in her field.

UC Irvine is not an easy place to find a position. Not only is it an R1 university, but it is in one of the most desirable places to live in the country. The competition for a UC position is out of control, partially because of their reputation as solid state schools and because of the weather, quality of life, etc. that comes with living in sunny California compared to living in freezing cold Michigan.

And, it is important to remember that Noam Chomsky, someone who played a huge role in contemporary linguistics is an emeritus prof at MIT and a full professor at U of Arizona. Chomsky is old and being in warm Tucson likely makes his life much more enjoyable than freezing his butt off in cold Boston.

Dr. Shore is not fresh out of grad school either and I imagine she might be over dealing with below zero days in the winter. So, of course she'd take a position at UC Irvine where the weather is 70 degrees and sunny every day of the year.

And, there are quite a few tech companies down in Irvine: AWS, Blizzard, Google, Anduril, and others all have offices in the area. She isn't moving to some isolated place, she is moving to a great school in an economically dynamic part of the country. She can easily work on her business from LA.

The only question I have is, "What about the institute she ran up at University of Michigan. Will it be re-established down in Irvine?"

 

[withintention]

Agreed with folks who are saying this is no news or maybe even good news. She did the science, now Auricle needs to do the business operations to get the product to market. As a board member, she's not going to be that heavily involved. And also, Auricle is based in Northern California so if anything she is closer to the business.

And the fact that she thinks she can afford living in SoCal versus Michigan means she probably feels good about her Auricle stock prospects

 

[SarahMLFlemmer]

...are we there yet?

 

[Pixelito]

Now that we're in Q1, I will be shocked if this is actually submitted to the FDA in Q1.

 

[Cmspgran]

It'll have to come out at some point, soon, they must realise that or they'll risk a competitor beating them to it and becoming the Betamax of tinnitus treatment.

 

[Nick47]

All I want is Americans reporting back its effectiveness. Tinnitus Talk staff could possibly set up something like they did with Retigabine, providing detailed patient information before and after. It will then quickly start to aggregate the data.

 

[Joey72]

Now that we're in Q1, I will be shocked if this is actually submitted to the FDA in Q1.

What makes you say that?

 

[Cmspgran]

All I want is Americans reporting back its effectiveness. Tinnitus Talk staff could possibly set up something like they did with Retigabine, providing detailed patient information before and after. It will then quickly start to aggregate the data.

I agree. We'll know in 6 months on here if it's the product we're all praying it is.

 

[Pixelito]

What makes you say that?

Based on the overall progression of everything to this point. And really, this Q1 submission has been based on one article from September. The stories that haven't come from Dr. Shore herself have been misrepresenting the timelines for years.

Just a guess. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Watasha]

It'll have to come out at some point, soon, they must realise that or they'll risk a competitor beating them to it and becoming the Betamax of tinnitus treatment.

That would be wonderful!

 

[Fields]

It'll have to come out at some point, soon, they must realise that or they'll risk a competitor beating them to it and becoming the Betamax of tinnitus treatment.

I agree, but when it comes to bi-modal stimulation, I believe only TU Delft is currently working on something similar. Hopefully they'll provide some additional insight on February 6.

Nevertheless, that doesn't mean other companies could not get something off the ground relatively quickly – given enough resources.

 

[Nick47]

It'll have to come out at some point, soon, they must realise that or they'll risk a competitor beating them to it and becoming the Betamax of tinnitus treatment.

Possibly Auricle's market outside of America could be compromised, however it really depends on TU Delft performance.

 

[BB23]

Possibly Auricle's market outside of America could be compromised, however it really depends on TU Delft performance.

No matter. You know why? China. If the device is effective at all, expect China to make knock-offs and have them spread around like cancer.

 

[Muggumbo]

Based on the overall progression of everything to this point. And really, this Q1 submission has been based on one article from September. The stories that haven't come from Dr. Shore herself have been misrepresenting the timelines for years.

Just a guess. I hope I'm wrong.

I imagine they'll want to bring it to market as soon as possible so they can make money. Hopefully we hear some news soon.

 

[Nick47]

You know why? China. If the device is effective at all, expect China to make knock-offs and have them spread around like cancer.

Well, I hope it will be better than the electrical 'Samsung like' products they sell on eBay...

 

[ploughna]

It will be interesting to see what Neuromod is up to with their Lenire in the meantime - revenue is rolling in, they have electrical, mechanical, bio-med and software engineers on staff who are presumably working on something - improvements to current device, next-gen device, etc?

 

[Muggumbo]

Well, I hope it will be better than the electrical 'Samsung like' products they sell on eBay...

It will be a 9 volt battery you tape to your neck with a pair of $1 earbuds that only play one screeching tone.

 

[Jammer]

It will be interesting to see what Neuromod is up to with their Lenire in the meantime - revenue is rolling in, they have electrical, mechanical, bio-med and software engineers on staff who are presumably working on something - improvements to current device, next-gen device, etc?

Having been in medical device development for 30 years in startups, most often the R&D, project and development engineers are laid off and the marketing group is staffed up once the product is released, especially when it's a one product company like Neuromod.