Not Just Hollywood

[GeorgiaRose1812]

Thought I'd get a conversation going on here about the whole #metoo thing, I know it's a bit of a hot button topic and it's nothing to do with tinnitus but it's interesting and important to me, and I know it is to a lot of people

 

[Bill Bauer]

What this means to me is that I ought to never be alone in a room with a woman. There should always be witnesses present. There is nothing a woman can offer to offset possible losses I can face if I am wrongfully accused.

 

[Amiel]

What this means to me is that I ought to never be alone in a room with a woman. There should always be witnesses present. There is nothing a woman can offer to offset possible losses I can face if I am wrongfully accused.

I agree, women can be lying whores and their word seems to be the truth. No evidence required...

 

[threefirefour]

What this means to me is that I ought to never be alone in a room with a woman. There should always be witnesses present. There is nothing a woman can offer to offset possible losses I can face if I am wrongfully accused.

Seriously though. Once back in high school there was a football player who almost went to jail because his ex said he raped her. No proof whatsoever, and absolutely no witnesses whatsoever. Luckily she was retarded enough to brag about it on Facebook but the fact that one wrongful accusation can mess up a mans life is really sad.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I agree, women can be lying whores

Often it happens as a result of a misunderstanding. Either way, the price a man pays is his livelihood.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Seriously though.

I WAS/AM serious...

 

[threefirefour]

I WAS/AM serious...

Seriously is often used as an expression of agreement.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Seriously is often used as an expression of agreement.

I thought you were saying that I was exaggerating, but that there is some truth to what I was saying.

 

[threefirefour]

What this means to me is that I ought to never be alone in a room with a woman. There should always be witnesses present. There is nothing a woman can offer to offset possible losses I can face if I am wrongfully accused.

In an ideal world a party accusing one of rape, would get the consequences that the other party would get, if that party is found to be innocent.

 

[Tinker Bell]

In an ideal world a party accusing one of rape, would get the consequences that the other party would get, if that party is found to be innocent.

In an ideal world no one would be raped.

 

[Bill Bauer]

In an ideal world no one would be raped.

The difference between his "ideal world" and your "ideal world" is that his ideal world could be easily implemented tomorrow, while your ideal world would require scientific miracles like psychopaths being cured, the state being able to control the mind of the citizens, police having the ability to read citizen memories (so that a criminal knows that he has a 100% chance of being caught), etc. In other words, your ideal world might become possible only sometime after all of us who are reading this forum are dead.

Goes without saying that your ideal world is more ideal.

 

[Hazel]

What a sad thread! I can understand the other men's contributions (though I don't agree with them, some rational conversation at least seems to be possible there), but @Amiel is totally out of line! I wish I could report his comment as inappropriate.

 

[Hazel]

@GeorgiaRose1812 and @Bill Bauer , to add my two cents, I believe false accusations are actually very rare. The vast majority of women who get sexually assaulted don't report it and never even talk about it (there's a lot of data on this). I can relate, having experienced some sexual harassment myself, it's very difficult to talk about, and there's always the fear that you'll be made to feel like it's somehow your fault.

The value of the #metoo discussion for me lies not in the accusations made against specific men (where I would agree, as would any judge, that evidence is warranted before they're found guilty), but rather in raising awareness about sexual harassment being a serious problem in work places, schools, public transport etc. and that many women and men do experience it on a regular basis. Creating an environment where people feel safe in speaking up and asking for help when something like this happens is what it's all about for me.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I believe false accusations are actually very rare.

To me it seems that a man hands over his future livelihood to the woman. The fact that women rarely ruin that future for no reason is nice, but is still not enough to convince me take the risk. If some people could shoot me in the head and not be prosecuted for it, I would stay away from them too (even if they were known to rarely exercise their option to shoot people).

 

[Hazel]

That's your prerogative of course, Bill. I wish that I had the same option of not getting into any situation where I could be harassed, but unfortunately that's impossible as it would mean staying home all day. Public transport and cycling to work have proved to be particularly tricky for me in that regard. Luckily, work is a safe space, since I have wonderful male colleagues who would not dream of touching a woman inappropriately, but I've experienced differently in other jobs.

Anyway, it's clear we're interested in entirely different aspects of this discussion. I was hoping to provide you with a perspective from the other side of the fence, so to speak, but perhaps there's no point to this dialogue. Please know that I respect you as a member of this forum, and let's leave it at that.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I am sorry that the authorities in Europe seem to be unable to provide a safe environment for women. Were things always this bad? Did your mom have the same experience?

 

[GeorgiaRose1812]

@GeorgiaRose1812 and @Bill Bauer , to add my two cents, I believe false accusations are actually very rare. The vast majority of women who get sexually assaulted don't report it and never even talk about it (there's a lot of data on this). I can relate, having experienced some sexual harassment myself, it's very difficult to talk about, and there's always the fear that you'll be made to feel like it's somehow your fault.

The value of the #metoo discussion for me lies not in the accusations made against specific men (where I would agree, as would any judge, that evidence is warranted before they're found guilty), but rather in raising awareness about sexual harassment being a serious problem in work places, schools, public transport etc. and that many women and men do experience it on a regular basis. Creating an environment where people feel safe in speaking up and asking for help when something like this happens is what it's all about for me.

I didn't realise people had responded to this thread I forgot to mark it as one I wanted to watch. Yes, false accusations of rape and sexual assault are extremely rare, especially once it gets past the stage of simple accusation and authorities are involved due to the huge amount of emotional stress a victim of such a crime is put through in order to get justice. Lying about something like that would hold very little, if any at all, gain for the accuser - women who make true accusations are already bullied and targeted enough, and no right-minded person would voluntarily put themselves through that if their accusations were false. It takes a lot to put yourself through it if they're true.

As for comments such as @Amiel's, thank you very much, genuinely, for proving the point of the #metoo movement and of my own campaign. Sexism, sexual harassment and gender stereotypes are pervasive, tiring and all too common. I hope one day comments like 'women can be lying whores' will be considered as offensive, archaic and wrong as 'black people can be lying n*s' or 'gay people are lying f*s', etc etc. The fight must continue for all people of all races, sexualities and genders to be able to walk through their daily lives without fear of harassment or danger based on aspects of themselves they can't change. This is not something women (or still, sadly, many ethnic minority/LGBTQ+ people) can do.

As for the value of the #metoo movement I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Tinker Bell]

I am sorry that the authorities in Europe seem to be unable to provide a safe environment for women. Were things always this bad? Did your mom have the same experience?

I cannot speak for life in Canada, but it is like that throughout much of the world — and has been for a very long time.

There was a woman in Europe who recently posted a blog tracking how often she was harassed simply walking down the street. Did not matter the time of day, what she was wearing, or the location. Honestly, it did not surprise me at all. In places most men would consider safe — airports, work conventions, stores, sporting events, bike paths — women are regularly harassed. Editing to add, I would list more but basically it's a never ending list. Pretty much think of a place and I likely know someone or have been harassed there myself.

 

[Zug]

I agree, women can be lying whores and their word seems to be the truth. No evidence required...

Did something happen in your life for you to draw this kind of conclusion?

 

[Bill Bauer]

How do you define harassment @Tinker Bell ?

 

[Tinker Bell]

How do you define harassment @Tinker Bell ?

Sexual harassment is defined as unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks. Catcalls for example are a form of sexual harassment.

 

[Amiel]

How do you define harassment?

This is what I and everyone else was thinking!! @Hazel @GeorgiaRose1812 @Tinker Bell all probs think it's harassment if a man smiles at you. OH MY GOD if a man says hello with a wrong tone! OR THAT YOU'RE PRETTY! CALL THE POLICE, WOMAN!

I've lived in SEVERAL european countries in my life, also other places and harassment hasn't been a problem for my female friends! I think 99 per cent of these "harassed" females lie or exaggerate about being "harassed"

THIS MOVEMENT where females are trying to overpower men is sick, it's not about EQUALITY, it's about some women wanting to control men and take the power away from men who are more level headed than women. I AM SORRY if I hurt anyones feelings but this conversation makes me hate certain women even more.. this will be my last message about this!

delete my message if you cant face the reality...

 

[Tinker Bell]

This is what I and everyone else was thinking!! @Hazel @GeorgiaRose1812 @Tinker Bell all probs think it's harassment if a man smiles at you. OH MY GOD if a man says hello with a wrong tone! OR THAT YOU'RE PRETTY! CALL THE POLICE, WOMAN!

I've lived in SEVERAL european countries in my life, also other places and harassment hasn't been a problem for my female friends! I think 99 per cent of these "harassed" females lie or exaggerate about being "harassed"

THIS MOVEMENT where females are trying to overpower men is sick, it's not about EQUALITY, it's about some women wanting to control men and take the power away from men who are more level headed than women. I AM SORRY if I hurt anyones feelings but this conversation makes me hate certain women even more.. this will be my last message about this!

A man smiling = perfectly acceptable.

A man smiling then commenting like you did to TheDanishGirl earlier today on a chat thread = not acceptable.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Sexual harassment is defined as unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks. Catcalls for example are a form of sexual harassment.

I have never seen/heard a woman being the subject of a catcall in my entire life (over 40 years) (not counting some silly commercials about construction workers). And no, I am not blind and deaf, and I do pay attention to what is happening around me, especially when I am walking down the street. I also spend time outside of Canada (when I travel). I spent many years at a university. Also, when I travel, I often enjoy walking at the local university grounds. Universities hire the best landscapers. I've been to University of Chicago, Seattle University, and many others.

Once I was visiting Craters of the Moon National Monument in Idaho, and an older gay guy tried to chat me up on the trails there. It was a bizarre experience. I was polite, so he made several attempts before he got the message that I was not interested. I don't feel like I was the victim of sexual harassment, although his attention was certainly unwanted, and I could do without that particular memory.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I believe that once realistic sex dolls connected to VR are cheap and commonplace, everyone (men and women) will be a lot happier. Surely fewer people will get propositioned.

 

[Tinker Bell]

I have never seen/heard a woman being the subject of a catcall in my entire life (over 40 years) (not counting some silly commercials about construction workers). And no, I am not blind and deaf, and I do pay attention to what is happening around me, especially when I am walking down the street. I also spend time outside of Canada (when I travel). I spent many years at a university. Also, when I travel, I often enjoy walking at the local university grounds. Universities hire the best landscapers. I've been to University of Chicago, Seattle University, and many others.

Once I was visiting Craters of the Moon National Monument in Idaho, and an older gay guy tried to chat me up on the trails there. It was a bizarre experience. I was polite, so he made several attempts before he got the message that I was not interested. I don't feel like I was the victim of sexual harassment, although his attention was certainly unwanted, and I could do without that particular memory.

Catcalls were just one example. I can assure you plenty of forms of sexual harassment happen on college campuses.

There is a difference between annoying and sexual harassment. Did the man in your example repeatedly ask you back to his hotel room, continuing to ask despite you repeatedly saying no? Make explicit comments of a sexual nature? But even if he did, you commented that you could do without that memory. Imagine if that happened to you every time you went on vacation.

I highly doubt your VR comment. The advent of boxing games and punching bags didn't mean people stopped getting into fights.

 

[Bill Bauer]

This is bringing up a lot of memories! When I was a grad student, my female classmate had been sending all sorts of signals to me. The problem was that I figured it out Years after it happened! At the time I was focusing on surviving grad school. I am also a direct person, so "signals" were just not registering.

The thing is that later I learned that she got cervical cancer and died. Most cervical cancer is caused by a virus that is spread via sexual contact. It is possible that when I didn't get her signals, she found someone more receptive who gave her that virus. My inability to register her signals might have ultimately led to her death...

 

[Bill Bauer]

Did the man in your example repeatedly ask you back to his hotel room, continuing to ask despite you repeatedly saying no?

I am grateful to him for not doing that. That would have been disturbing, and would have ruined my day.

The advent of boxing games and punching bags didn't mean people stopped getting into fights.

Good point.

 

[GeorgiaRose1812]

I am grateful to him for not doing that. That would have been disturbing, and would have ruined my day.

What you say would ruin your day is very often what happens to us.

 

[Tinker Bell]

I am grateful to him for not doing that. That would have been disturbing, and would have ruined my day.

That is unfortunately what happens to many women. It happens to men, too. And it's not right, no one should do that to someone else.

Women are not idiots. We know the difference between a polite smile, a genuine compliment and a sincere request versus suggestive sneers, obscene remarks and aggressive propositions.

Again, I refer to the earlier unwanted and unsolicited comment directed at a female user in a chat. She was asking for help and instead a member replied with a sexually suggestive response. Do you think that is the response she was looking for? Do you think that made her feel comfortable posting? That it was helpful or made her feel better about her problem? Of course not. Really I'm surprised that's allowed on TT.