Peace ...

[Dr. Nagler]

"Tinnitus: Make peace with it in order to have peace from it."

- Anne-Mette Mohr

 

[Sound Wave]

Well said! I guess this is a cue to a journey on how to make peace with your enemy...

 

[valeri]

Can she tell us how????

 

[Tenna]

Nice. I had a meeting once with her for t-guidance, nice and wise lady, do you know her Dr. Nagler?

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Nice. I had a meeting once with her for t-guidance, nice and wise lady, do you know her Dr. Nagler?

I know her very well. Known her for 15 years or so. In fact my wife Terri and I will be spending the day with Anne-Mette and her husband Gunner when we are in Copenhagen next month.

Stephen Nagler

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Can she tell us how????

She can't. But you can.

The answer is within each of us. Step number one would be to explore what exactly it is that turns a sound into an enemy. I know all the simple responses - it's loud, it's ceaseless, it's grating, it affects concentration, etc. But still and all, it's a sound. Discovering precisely why it has become an enemy is harder than it might seem at first blush.

Stephen Nagler

 

[Tenna]

Small world huh I'll wave from my bike if I see you guys! Most pleasant trip

 

[KingRoanoke]

The problem occurs when tinnitus becomes aversive even when you're not actively deconstructing it and rationalizing the effect it has. It's in the background and yet you have a bad reaction to it without thinking about it. Thus you conclude that it is innately composed of bad qualities and it is just the nature of the condition. There must then be a leap of faith that the sufferer must take by asking, "Is this really this bad?" "What if something other than the tinnitus itself is causing me to feel bad?"

This is hard to do if you are constantly suffering and reading about suffering. I think there is something to the idea that 'negative counseling' can impede habituation.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I believe it was @here2help who suggested that the "leap of faith" you're talking about can sometimes be more readily achieved if you view it as a succession of small steps.

Stephen Nagler

 

[Leah]

I also was looking for "instructions" on habitation. Must say though Dr.Nagler your post changed my mood this morning, in a positive way.

 

[KingRoanoke]

True, but even a small step is a leap if you are incredulous. Then again, when I true to approach tinnitus without any judgements, I do sometimes make progress with how I feel about it.

 

[ItalianMan]

I don't think it is so difficult to understand that T became an enemy because it expresses something sick in our body

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I don't think it is so difficult to understand that T became an enemy because it expresses something sick in our body

Tinnitus is a sound for goodness' sakes. A sound.

If it expresses anything at all, that is purely by virtue of the fact that you yourself have given it meaning. What Anne-Mette Mohr is suggesting is that you ask yourself why you have given it meaning ... and moreover what can you do about changing the meaning you have given it.

Stephen Nagler

 

[valeri]

Does she have t?

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Does she have t?

I do not know.

Seems to me that she understands tinnitus and tinnitus sufferers very well regardless.

Stephen Nagler

 

[billie48]

"Tinnitus: Make peace with it in order to have peace from it."

- Anne-Mette Mohr

This is so true. Before I learn this concept a few years back, everyday was spent in fighting/resisting tinnitus. This resistance took two forms: 1) I could not tolerate the ultra high pitch, 2) I was upset & fearful about the reality of tinnitus in my life. T consumed my mental energy and exhausted my brain, until I finally realized that no amount of anger/rant/anxiety/depression could change T and that the only way to have better quality of life was to TRY to accept it as being a reality of my life (point 2). By that I don't mean I turn to like T and treat it a friend. I just mean accepting it like we accept any chronic illness, like myself dealing with back pain for 35+ years, or like my wife accepting her chronic asthma & bronchiectasis, like one of my daughters with bad skin eczema, or a family friend with late stage cancer having multiple surgeries. We don't like these illnesses, but life goes on. That is all. As for point 1, the magic bullet for that is just time, good old mother time. We can use alternative treatments like TRT, CBT etc. to speed up this process. But the passage of time is critical for the body to get used to this repeated sensation.

When I finally learned to make peace with T, by willing to peacefully co-exist with it, and with the passage of time, the quality of my life improves dramatically and habituation slowly follows.

 

[Martin69]

This is so true. Before I learn this concept a few years back, everyday was spent in fighting/resisting tinnitus. This resistance took two forms: 1) I could not tolerate the ultra high pitch, 2) I was upset & fearful about the reality of tinnitus in my life. T consumed my mental energy and exhausted my brain, until I finally realized that no amount of anger/rant/anxiety/depression could change T and that the only way to have better quality of life was to TRY to accept it as being a reality of my life (point 2). By that I don't mean I turn to like T and treat it a friend. I just mean accepting it like we accept any chronic illness, like myself dealing with back pain for 35+ years, or like my wife accepting her chronic asthma & bronchiectasis, like one of my daughters with bad skin eczema, or a family friend with late stage cancer having multiple surgeries. We don't like these illnesses, but life goes on. That is all. As for point 1, the magic bullet for that is just time, good old mother time. We can use alternative treatments like TRT, CBT etc. to speed up this process. But the passage of time is critical for the body to get used to this repeated sensation.

When I finally learned to make peace with T, by willing to peacefully co-exist with it, and with the passage of time, the quality of my life improves dramatically and habituation slowly follows.

Hi all,
I gave myself a week time staying away from the board. I just wanted to concentrate on other things. I only read success stories on the yuku board to stay optimistic. As Billie said, time will heal - hopefully.

But trust me. My head is buzzing like crazy. It makes sounds like electrostatic noise. Like a train has passed and the tracks are hissing. Loud and unbearable. Always present.

I go through my day as I would without T. But always at the verge of panic.

Guys like Dr. Nagler, Billie48, Jeff M, here2help and others always give excellent support to me and others.

Tell me guys how you habituate to such a noise. How can someone make peace with such a sound?

 

[ampumpkin]

@Martin69 I can feel your pain throught the words and it really breaks my heart...I don't know what to tell you really except that you are not alone...

hugs.

 

[Martin69]

@Martin69 I can feel your pain throught the words and it really breaks my heart...I don't know what to tell you really except that you are not alone...

hugs.

If it is the same sound for you, I am so sorry.
I would not wish this to my worst enemy.
Nevertheless, I have no choice. I need to cope.

 

[ampumpkin]

I wrote you a message...

My T is not extremely loud but it's reactive...therefore, I find it very hard to habituate. I have several "spikes" a day, especially in the public transit, at work, on the elevators, etc etc.

If it weren't for my kids, I wouldn't be here today.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Tell me guys how you habituate to such a noise.

Speaking for myself, I did TRT.

Stephen Nagler

 

[Magpie]

Martin69 wrote:
Hi all,
I gave myself a week time staying away from the board. I just wanted to concentrate on other things. I only read success stories on the yuku board to stay optimistic. As Billie said, time will heal - hopefully.
But trust me. My head is buzzing like crazy. It makes sounds like electrostatic noise. Like a train has passed and the tracks are hissing. Loud and unbearable. Always present.
I go through my day as I would without T. But always at the verge of panic.
Guys like Dr. Nagler, Billie48, Jeff M, here2help and others always give excellent support to me and others.
Tell me guys how you habituate to such a noise. How can someone make peace with such a sound?

I have never felt the urge to make peace with my tinnitus or in Hazels words "make it your friend". I think either way it doesn't cut it as far as I'm concerned anyway. What does work is not being emotional or not reacting to it in a negative way and focusing on other things in your life. You said "I go through my day as I would without T, but always on the verge of panic". There is the answer panic! and overcoming this by changing your thought processes should diminish or eliminate your fear/panic. Billie is right time will heal and some will take longer than others but eventually we get there.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I made peace with it. I did not make it my friend. There's a huge difference, in my opinion.

Time sometimes heals. It is shortsighted to say that time will heal. I've known plenty of folks who continue to suffer from tinnitus terribly for many many years. Sometimes it takes time plus a strategy.

Anyway, @Magpie, as long as your tinnitus is no longer a problem for you, that's what matters. I'm happy for you!

Stephen Nagler

 

[Martin69]

Thanks Magpie for your kind words.
Yes, panic is the result of distorted thoughts when I ask those questions to myself:
How to live with this for the rest of my life?
How to work with this?
How to live a normal life if you are at the verge to freaking out?
I listen to the counselling sessions on www.tinnitus.org.
I understand the theory of neuronal pathways, limbic system etc. etc.
I do MBSR training.
I know it is just a sound and I must put it in the right view.
I am so happy for all the people who have accepted their T as being part of them.
So time goes on and eventually I will be one of them some time in the future.
Otherwise I am lost.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

So time goes on and eventually I will be one of them some time in the future.
Otherwise I am lost.

I'm sorry, but I just think that's the wrong approach.

The keys to success are Strategy, Determination, Flexibility, and Insight.

If in spite of your Determination your current Strategy does not get you where you want to go, you have to be Flexible enough to change strategies.

What is it that Einstein said? "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Stephen Nagler

 

[Martin69]

I'm sorry, but I just think that's the wrong approach.

The keys to success are Strategy, Determination, Flexibility, and Insight.

If in spite of your Determination your current Strategy does not get you where you want to go, you have to be Flexible enough to change strategies.

What is it that Einstein said? "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Stephen Nagler

Hello Stephen,

Yes, you gave me the recommendation to get an appointment with Jacqui Sheldrake in London.
Of course you could imagine, I don't want another disappointment. With all respect, and I see you and her as THE TRT experts in the world, does it help me? I really don't want to be unrespectful. And maybe it is really that someone takes my hand and shows me the way.

I have read and it was explained to me all about the cochlea, hair cells, neuronal pathways, limbic system, heller/bergman test, all the spider/umbrella/candle/snake etc. examples. I had WNGs for a long time, but they drove my T crazy.

Maybe there is really still something missing that turns the corner for me. Maybe my life is not pleasant and fulfilling enough that a depression would be there even without T. That's all very difficult.

I guess it would make sense writing Jacqui Sheldrake and asking for an appointment. I could drive to London by car (around 6-7 hours).

Best regards and thanks for your time again.
Martin

 

[valeri]

Dr Nagler I wish you read my thread on my audiology experience, unfortunately that's a harsh reality for many of us who are just hitting one brick wall after another.

And hitting each wall hits our pockets equally.

There goes my strategy, determination, flexibility.....

What I want to say is that it's not always so straight forward, I guess you were really lucky to come across a competent professional who was able to help you.

Many of us are just running in circles pouring money down the drain.

 

[Mark McDill]

@Dr. Nagler @Martin69 @valeri
I finally did make 'peace' with my T (to a point -- it's more like a cease fire agreement, much like the tacit agreement held by North and South Korea or India and Pakistan). But it is a peace nonetheless that has achieved a good measure of stability.

To be very honest, and at the risk of sounding elemental or brutish, I considered my T an enemy because it was something happening to my body over which I had no control, it kept me awake at night, and it annoyed me no end.

I realize a rational response to this would be to pose the question 'so everything and everyone you can't control is your enemy?' Checkmate . So be it; but that is why I thought it an enemy. I've had myriad sports injuries and was always able to adapt and overcome (take control); not in this case -- so I was completely knocked off and out of my game.

It wasn't until I learned to 'fight' a new way -- total acceptance and no emotional response; but my gosh that took a long time and I really didn't think I was going to make it (it just happened).

As far as the quality of life conundrum "how much does T affect my quality of life and how does the quality of my life affect my T?" I've just recently made sense of that one (for myself anyways -- maybe others can relate). For quite some time I've been way ahead of my T, really on top of it and making great progress. Recent changes in life have caused me to be deeply annoyed (as in quite disturbed, leading to anger and frustration) for an extended period of time. My T roared back to life (spiked for days) and I finally came to realize that quality of life issues on this side of habituation are THE major factor -- T is merely a very effective accelerant driving my quality of life even further down (my life stinks AND I have T). Good news is that I've chilled out and am working the issues and my T has gone back down (my life is ok AND my T has calmed down).

The real heartache is that prior to habituation T is THE major factor driving you into the ground; I've been there...

Martin, valeri; don't give up hope, habituation does happen. Until then...

Prayers and support from a T-bro

Mark

 

[Martin69]

@Dr. Nagler @Martin69 @valeri
I finally did make 'peace' with my T (to a point -- it's more like a cease fire agreement, much like the tacit agreement held by North and South Korea or India and Pakistan). But it is a peace nonetheless that has achieved a good measure of stability.

To be very honest, and at the risk of sounding elemental or brutish, I considered my T an enemy because it was something happening to my body over which I had no control, it kept me awake at night, and it annoyed me no end.

I realize a rational response to this would be to pose the question 'so everything and everyone you can't control is your enemy?' Checkmate . So be it; but that is why I thought it an enemy. I've had myriad sports injuries and was always able to adapt and overcome (take control); not in this case -- so I was completely knocked off and out of my game.

It wasn't until I learned to 'fight' a new way -- total acceptance and no emotional response; but my gosh that took a long time and I really didn't think I was going to make it (it just happened).

As far as the quality of life conundrum "how much does T affect my quality of life and how does the quality of my life affect my T?" I've just recently made sense of that one (for myself anyways -- maybe others can relate). For quite some time I've been way ahead of my T, really on top of it and making great progress. Recent changes in life have caused me to be deeply annoyed (as in quite disturbed, leading to anger and frustration) for an extended period of time. My T roared back to life (spiked for days) and I finally came to realize that quality of life issues on this side of habituation are THE major factor -- T is merely a very effective accelerant driving my quality of life even further down (my life stinks AND I have T). Good news is that I've chilled out and am working the issues and my T has gone back down (my life is ok AND my T has calmed down).

The real heartache is that prior to habituation T is THE major factor driving you into the ground; I've been there...

Martin, valeri; don't give up hope, habituation does happen. Until then...

Prayers and support from a T-bro

Mark

Hello Mark,

I thank you for your support and explanation.

It is really difficult handling life and finding next steps. On the one hand, people say not visiting doctor after doctor and looking for treatment after treatment. They say to get used to it and accept. That is also my strategy, surviving every day. On the other hand, you are looking for help. But you know, no one can take T away from you.

I know that my T was caused by high level of stress and exhaustion (job, family, other activities). It was an alarm ringing like crazy in my head. And T brought me to a point where I no longer know if there was maybe a depression before, if my life is too much grey in grey or if the T has caused the depression. You think about your job, your activities, everything. And this brings another, high level stress factor to me.

Nevertheless I tell myself that my life was maybe not perfect, but it was ok and livable. I really like it. It is difficult to really tell that since I am living 8 months with this dentist drill in my head. And you speak and talk about each and every aspect in your life. People say that T was an alarm thinking about and reorganizing my life. I really cannot tell if I would also have a depression without T. As I said, things are grey in grey.

And I don't know why. I am sitting here with my boys playing computer games. I have a lovely wife, I have a good social network, friends, football as my hobby, no financial problems. I really try to find out if it is really T and once I have overcome this, things are shining again. There are some good reasons for this. For example after my T onset, I showed no signs of depression. I was optimistic that time will heal or I will habituate. Then I have moments where I feel really good and I really like my life, with or without T.

Sorry for rambling her - if this is the correct English word. It is really tough staying optimistic if life looks grey in grey. Maybe it is simply a normal progress that after having loud T for 8 months, realizing you will have this forever, that this is some kind of setback. I will continue fighting, for my family. But honestly speaking I cannot imagine living with this until the rest of my life. Each day is a battle.

All the best for you all and prayers.
Martin

 

[Dr. Nagler]

What I want to say is that it's not always so straight forward, I guess you were really lucky to come across a competent professional who was able to help you.

Many of us are just running in circles pouring money down the drain.

It wasn't straightforward for me at all.

The reason I post on Tinnitus Talk is so that it will be much much easier for you than it was for me. But the one thing I cannot do is make folks here actually take my advice!

Stephen Nagler