Poll: Do You Listen to Music with Headphones? Has It Made Your Tinnitus Worse?

[Michael Leigh]

However, when you make statements that people on this site make posts about medications such as benzos, antidepressants or many other medications making tinnitus worse because they don't know any better!!! that statement is insensitive to those that are on this site due to medication induced tinnitus.

@Star64

I respect your point of view regarding the use of medications for tinnitus. I am sorry to know that your tinnitus has become worse as a result of taking them. My advice on the use of medications for tinnitus remains the same and I will explain my reasons which is as follows:

When tinnitus reaches a severe level of intensity as it was once for me back in 2010, there are very few options available to a tinnitus patient to find relief from the cacophony of noise that is upon them. A person can find themselves slipping into a deep depression because their mental wellbeing is seriously affected. The longer this continues the worse their symptoms can become and they could find themselves contemplating their own demise, as is often expressed by some members of this forum that have immense difficulty coping with tinnitus. Therefore, what is one to do?

Whilst an Antidepressant may not necessarily reduce the tinnitus noise, it will often help to prevent a person becoming too depressed which will make the tinnitus even more intrusive. Stress makes tinnitus worse and tinnitus makes stress worse. It can become a vicious cycle of discontent and this has to be managed, otherwise a person is at serious risk of carrying out what I have described above. To be more precise attempting suicide and unfortunately succeeding in their quest, to find relieve from the torment that they are enduring.

The same applies to the benzodiazepine Clonazepam. My ENT consultant prescribed it for me in 2010 and I found it to be of immense help. I was advised to only take it when my tinnitus was severe and to shouldn't be taking too often. It reduced my tinnitus to a more manageable level and there were instances where it reduced it to complete silence.

Reading some of the posts in this forum from people that have been on Benzos and Antidepressants for tinnitus. Often I have learned these people take these medications regularly and long term and are not properly managed by their doctor. I can only speak about my experience with antidepressant and Benzo for tinnitus but I have had no problem with them. Many people that have I talked to have found Antidepressants helpful and those on Clonazepam have found it the same. These people have not taken the medications long term and have been closely monitored by their doctor on the amount of medication they take.

As I said I respect your point of view. However, the sobering truth about tinnitus is this. When it is severe and unrelenting the only treatment for it is medication, counselling and sound therapy. Often a combination of these treatments help the condition.

Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

I'm not going to get too embroiled in this again, because Michael knows my opinion re his positions already, and because I am dedicated to keeping this board positive and supportive. So I'll just say this:

I have said all I am going to say on Headphone use and noise induced tinnitus and stand by this.

Goodbye and I wish you well.
Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

I don't mean disrespect. It just doesn't add up. Again, I don't use headphones, but it's not like there has been studies about this, just anecdotal evidence.

Any advice that I give in this forum is just that, advice. If you do not wish you follow it or believe in it then that is your choice.

Take care and I wish you well.
Michael

 

[Bartoli]

Any advice that I give in this forum is just that, advice. If you do not wish you follow it or believe in it then that is your choice.

Fair enough. I prefer music via speakers anyway so it's not a problem for me.

I read a bit about your experience with tinnitus. You say yours got worse in 2010 but nowadays it fluctuates a lot. Would you say it has gotten better over time? Or is it your reaction that changed? I know this is a hard one to pin down due to the subjective nature of the beast.

Greets

B

 

[MattS]

I have said all I am going to say on Headphone use and noise induced tinnitus.
Michael

This also seems suspect.

 

[Bartoli]

so we have a close to even split of "I don't use headphones anymore," and "I use headphones and it's fine", which is >80% of the data, and only a tiny percentage of people (~10%) who *think* it made it worse

It's not really very useful data. Remember we're on a tinnitus forum. The majority of people that use headphones are not on here. I have to say, some of my students crank them way up... Whenever I ask them why they answer it's because they can't stand the noise around them
That would be someone coughing or ballpoint pen clicking. When people get annoyed by some random not loud sound I just realise how good I am at ignoring sound or distractions because of my tinnitus...

 

[Michael Leigh]

This also seems suspect.

You certainly have that choice.

I am here to help people based on my many years experience with tinnitus, particularly noise induced and how it affects a person's mental and emotional wellbeing. This type of experience which many people seasoned to tinnitus and veterans have in this forum, cannot be learnt from a book or any ENT doctor. I do not wish to engage in long winded drawn out arguments about any advice that I give in this forum. If a person disagrees with it then that is their choice, if they choose to follow it and it helps then I am pleased. I regularly receive PM messages from members in this forum, thanking me for the advice given in my posts.

Take care and I wish you well.
Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

I read a bit about your experience with tinnitus. You say yours got worse in 2010 but nowadays it fluctuates a lot. Would you say it has gotten better over time? Or is it your reaction that changed? I know this is a hard one to pin down due to the subjective nature of the beast.

My tinnitus got worse in 2008 which I have explained in my post: My experience with tinnitus. After 2 years of TRT for the second time, there was some improvement but the tinnitus was still problematic extremely so. I was prescribed clonazepam in 2010 and it helped but was advised by my ENT doctor to only take it when the tinnitus was severe. It took 4 years to habituate but my tinnitus was very different prior to 2008.

Over the last 7 years there as been slow steady improvement but also a lot of downtimes and took clonazepam approximately twice a month for 1, 2 or 3 days and stopped. For the last 2 to 3 months I have started taking magnesium tablets and have noticed further improvement. I haven't taken clonazepam for about 8 weeks which is quite unusual and hope this continues. When the tinnitus does ramp up to severe levels as it did this morning, it reduced by itself to moderate then completely quiet over 4 to 6 hrs, again quite unusual.

Michael

 

[MattS]

You certainly have that choice.

I am here to help people based on my many years experience with tinnitus, particularly noise induced and how it affects a person's mental and emotional wellbeing. This type of experience which many people seasoned to tinnitus and veterans have in this forum, cannot be learnt from a book or any ENT doctor. I do not wish to engage in long winded drawn out arguments about any advice that I give in this forum. If a person disagrees with it then that is their choice, if they choose to follow it and it helps then I am pleased. I regularly receive PM messages from members in this forum, thanking me for the advice given in my posts.

Take care and I wish you well.
Michael

You have me wrong Michael: I didn't say I wouldn't consider your arguments, and indeed listen to many of them. As I said, I think you are a valuable resource for the community, and someone with several important messages to convey. You'll have noticed that I recently forwarded several members to your hyperacusis thread, and I will continue doing so as relevant.

My only concern - which has been expressed by others as well - is that you put forth your arguments with such strength, such assuredness, that you leave little room for any other possibility. And given the logical flaws that accompany some of your thinking, this makes it more difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

I will continue to read your posts, and to garner what knowledge and insight you have to give. But I will also think critically about the advice you have, as I think critically about the advice anyone provides, and this may sometimes lead me to question the validity of some of your points. You are not good with people questioning your points, which is a shame - our knowledge and dialogue could likely move forward even more productively if you would engage with others ideas, rather than just trying to force feed your own.

 

[Star64]

@Star64

I respect your point of view regarding the use of medications for tinnitus. I am sorry to know that your tinnitus has become worse as a result of taking them. My advice on the use of medications for tinnitus remains the same and I will explain my reasons which is as follows:

When tinnitus reaches a severe level of intensity as it was once for me back in 2010, there are very few options available to a tinnitus patient to find relief from the cacophony of noise that is upon them. A person can find themselves slipping into a deep depression because their mental wellbeing is seriously affected. The longer this continues the worse their symptoms can become and they could find themselves contemplating their own demise, as is often expressed by some members of this forum that have immense difficulty coping with tinnitus. Therefore, what is one to do?

Whilst an Antidepressant may not necessarily reduce the tinnitus noise, it will often help to prevent a person becoming too depressed which will make the tinnitus even more intrusive. Stress makes tinnitus worse and tinnitus makes stress worse. It can become a vicious cycle of discontent and this has to be managed, otherwise a person is at serious risk of carrying out what I have described above. To be more precise attempting suicide and unfortunately succeeding in their quest, to find relieve from the torment that they are enduring.

The same applies to the benzodiazepine Clonazepam. My ENT consultant prescribed it for me in 2010 and I found it to be of immense help. I was advised to only take it when my tinnitus was severe and to shouldn't be taking too often. It reduced my tinnitus to a more manageable level and there were instances where it reduced it to complete silence.

Reading some of the posts in this forum from people that have been on Benzos and Antidepressants for tinnitus. Often I have learned these people take these medications regularly and long term and are not properly managed by their doctor. I can only speak about my experience with antidepressant and Benzo for tinnitus but I have had no problem with them. Many people that have I talked to have found Antidepressants helpful and those on Clonazepam have found it the same. These people have not taken the medications long term and have been closely monitored by their doctor on the amount of medication they take.

As I said I respect your point of view. However, the sobering truth about tinnitus is this. When it is severe and unrelenting the only treatment for it is medication, counselling and sound therapy. Often a combination of these treatments help the condition.

Michael

Sorry Michael I think you have missed my point in my previous post, I am not anti medications including antidepressants and benzos, I fully understand why some people will need to take these class of drugs, I was one of them, plus I handed out antidepressants and benzos, mainly valium and serepax for a living for a good ten year period because I worked in a private psychiatric hospital.

My point was that you stating that people on this forum do not know what they are talking about when they state some medications can make tinnitus worse is just incorrect, of course they can, we have actual accounts of that from peoples experiences on this forum, and many medical professionals and pharmacists with knowledge know that certain medications have listed tinnitus as a possible side affect. Note I say possible side affect.

I think everyone's input on this forum is important, like you said people should not have to feel that they should avoid headphone usage, it is just your opinion and you are stating this from a point of concern, just like the people that post on here about all types of different medications that have caused or exacerbated their tinnitus. We can all take this on board and make our own decisions.

I also have recommended to people by private PM not to cease their antidepressant or reduce it without speaking with their DR first... Some people do need these drugs because they do benefit from them, but many others do not do well on this class of drug, I have witnessed this first hand and it actually has increased the patients suicidal thoughts, all psyche medications need close monitoring as most have a high side effect profile... once again I acknowledge that not everyone will experience these, but the fact is a lot do, and I am not talking just about tinnitus but alas sometimes the benefits still might outweigh the risks but people should make informed choices.

Counselling, support, meditation, exercise, healthy eating and mindfulness are known as safe practices for good reason, but yes for some people medications may be a necessity I totally agree with that, but benzos are dangerous drugs and not recommended for long term use.

If you use these drugs long term the risk of dependence is much higher, and even those who resort to use these drugs long term on this forum are honest enough to note this.

Therefore if you have severe tinnitus and it stays at this level long term, benzos may not be the best choice of medications to mess with.

 

[Michael Leigh]

You have me wrong Michael: I didn't say I wouldn't consider your arguments, and indeed listen to many of them. As I said, I think you are a valuable resource for the community, and someone with several important messages to convey. You'll have noticed that I recently forwarded several members to your hyperacusis thread, and I will continue doing so as relevant.

My only concern - which has been expressed by others as well - is that you put forth your arguments with such strength, such assuredness, that you leave little room for any other possibility. And given the logical flaws that accompany some of your thinking, this makes it more difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

I will continue to read your posts, and to garner what knowledge and insight you have to give. But I will also think critically about the advice you have, as I think critically about the advice anyone provides, and this may sometimes lead me to question the validity of some of your points. You are not good with people questioning your points, which is a shame - our knowledge and dialogue could likely move forward even more productively if you would engage with others ideas, rather than just trying to force feed your own.

Thank you for expressing your views. In reply I refer you to my previous post to you.

Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

Sorry Michael I think you have missed my point in my previous post, I am not anti medications including antidepressants and benzos, I fully understand why some people will need to take these class of drugs, I was one of them, plus I handed out antidepressants and benzos, mainly valium and serepax for a living for a good ten year period because I worked in a private psychiatric hospital.

My point was that you stating that people on this forum do not know what they are talking about when they state some medications can make tinnitus worse is just incorrect, of course they can, we have actual accounts of that from peoples experiences on this forum, and many medical professionals and pharmacists with knowledge know that certain medications have listed tinnitus as a possible side affect. Note I say possible side affect.

I think everyone's input on this forum is important, like you said people should not have to feel that they should avoid headphone usage, it is just your opinion and you are stating this from a point of concern, just like the people that post on here about all types of different medications that have caused or exacerbated their tinnitus. We can all take this on board and make our own decisions.

I also have recommended to people by private PM not to cease their antidepressant or reduce it without speaking with their DR first... Some people do need these drugs because they do benefit from them, but many others do not do well on this class of drug, I have witnessed this first hand and it actually has increased the patients suicidal thoughts, all psyche medications need close monitoring as most have a high side effect profile... once again I acknowledge that not everyone will experience these, but the fact is a lot do, and I am not talking just about tinnitus but alas sometimes the benefits still might outweigh the risks but people should make informed choices.

Counselling, support, meditation, exercise, healthy eating and mindfulness are known as safe practices for good reason, but yes for some people medications may be a necessity I totally agree with that, but benzos are dangerous drugs and not recommended for long term use.

If you use these drugs long term the risk of dependence is much higher, and even those who resort to use these drugs long term on this forum are honest enough to note this.

Therefore if you have severe tinnitus and it stays at this level long term, benzos may not be the best choice of medications to mess with.

Please accept my apologies for misunderstanding you. I ask that you please read my last to two posts to the member obove Matts. I do not wish you engage in long winded arguments and dialogue simply for the purpose of writing. It is counterproductive and not what I am here for. I believe in what I write and will continue to do so.

Take care and I hope this puts an end to the matter.

Michael

 

[Fleegle]

I only listen to music while I run. It's like a treat for me, lol. I tend to keep the volume low enough that I can hear my own breathing and steps on the ground. I used to blast it loudly. I tried running without music and it wasn't as fun. I also tried listening to masking while running, but I figured keeping the volume down while running would be as safe.

The Bose-QC35II headphones were instrumental in giving me T - I used to drown out boring coworkers and the awful music at my gym. Once I had T, I felt uncomfortable using them, they seemed to make it slightly worse.

Now I use the Bose Soundsport Free earbuds.

Without trying to hijack the thread (because this thread is important), can you tell me of your actual wearing experience with Bose Soundsport Free - I am thinking abt buying. Do they stay in your ears? Are they comfortable? Can you wear them while sleeping? etc. Any info is good info. Thanks!

 

[Fleegle]

I think (and it's just an impression based on cause-effect observation and perhaps no basis on actual medical/physical sciences) that my tinnitus was caused by three things: having cold/flu whilst having flu vaccine whilst smashing my ears with sound and headphones. I do some music production in my spare time. I was sick (definitely) and when they say do not get a vaccine if you have flu already, well I did exactly that. And I think I had infection in the left ear, and it was blocked and painful. Add headphones. Boom. Didn't really notice anything until flu finally subsided and I was thinking that maybe I should be recovered and not hearing weird sounds anymore a few months later. Got the flu and shots in May and September asked Dr about tinnitus.
(and tomorrow a different cause for my tinnitus - maybe neck/spine - just saying).

 

[Bill Bauer]

Wow - of the 24 people who reported using headphones, 5 (or over 20%) got louder tinnitus...

Looks like the latest results imply that of the 52 people who reported using headphones after they got tinnitus, 15 (or 15/52 = 28.8%) got louder tinnitus...

 

[Auron]

I think this poll is extremely flawed.We don't how loud the headphones were.Just saying something like "low" is very subjective.What I may consider loud,is low for other's.

 

[Star64]

Please accept my apologies for misunderstanding you. I ask that you please read my last to two posts to the member obove Matts. I do not wish you engage in long winded arguments and dialogue simply for the purpose of writing. It is counterproductive and not what I am here for. I believe in what I write and will continue to do so.

Take care and I hope this puts an end to the matter.

Michael

No worries Michael, not trying to get into long winded arguments but sometimes when we write things they can be taken out of context... I think everyone has a right to their point of view as long as it is done with respect and kindness...

 

[Bill Bauer]

I think this poll is extremely flawed.We don't how loud the headphones were.Just saying something like "low" is very subjective.What I may consider loud,is low for other's.

Despite it being flawed, it seems to establish that the risk is not nonexistent.

Since everyone's ears are different (what's ok for one person is not ok for another person), that's all one can hope to establish.

Now that I think of it, it is safe to assume that everyone had been listening at a volume that felt safe to them. If a study were to expose everyone to the same sound that had the same dB volume, the study would be LESS useful than a study were people select a volume that feels safe.

 

[Michael Leigh]

No worries Michael, not trying to get into long winded arguments but sometimes when we write things they can be taken out of context... I think everyone has a right to their point of view as long as it is done with respect and kindness...

Twenty three years ago I visited a forum similar to this asking for help with my tinnitus and got it. This is the main reason I come here as I wish to give something back. When I believe it is helpful, I will explain sometimes at length, reasons why I write what I write because this is how one learns. However, as previously explained, I do not wish to engage in long winded drawn out arguments when I believe it's not necessary and done purely to find fault with what I do. Or people telling me what I should and shouldn't write because it doesn't sit well with what they believe.

I intend to carry on as I have done for the passed 5 years I have been at this forum.

Michael

 

[Star64]

Twenty three years ago I visited a forum similar to this asking for help with my tinnitus and got it. This is the main reason I come here as I wish to give something back. When I believe it is helpful, I will explain sometimes at length, reasons why I write what I write because this is how one learns. However, as previously explained, I do not wish to engage in long winded drawn out arguments when I believe it's not necessary and done purely to find fault with what I do. Or people telling me what I should and shouldn't write because it doesn't sit well with what they believe.

I intend to carry on as I have done for the passed 5 years I have been at this forum.

Michael

As the saying goes keep calm and carry on.

 

[Auron]

Now that I think of it, it is safe to assume that everyone had been listening at a volume that felt safe to them.

That's my point. People are really bad at judging just how loud something is, just cause they think/feel it's a safe volume, doesn't mean it actually is. Also need to take into account what people listen to. Is it softer, slower music, or something like heavy metal. Only way to find out would be to use the same setup/volume across participants for some time. Of course, that's never gonna happen.In the end we just need to get some working treatment...

 

[MattS]

Twenty three years ago I visited a forum similar to this asking for help with my tinnitus and got it. This is the main reason I come here as I wish to give something back. When I believe it is helpful, I will explain sometimes at length, reasons why I write what I write because this is how one learns. However, as previously explained, I do not wish to engage in long winded drawn out arguments when I believe it's not necessary and done purely to find fault with what I do. Or people telling me what I should and shouldn't write because it doesn't sit well with what they believe.

I intend to carry on as I have done for the passed 5 years I have been at this forum.

Michael

My interpretation of this:

I will continue to say what I want to, because I believe people should learn from my opinions and experiences. I will, however, not listen to them in return, because I have no interest in learning from their opinions and experiences.

Keep calm.
Carry on.

 

[MattS]

Looks like the latest results imply that of the 52 people who reported using headphones after they got tinnitus, 15 (or 15/52 = 28.8%) got louder tinnitus...

You're right Bill - that's a good interpretation of the numbers.

Of course, it also means that 72.2% did not get worsening tinnitus; and we don't know what baseline rate of tinnitus worsening is - could be that 20% get worse in general. But still...this is data worth paying attention to (see, when there's actually evidence, I pay attention!)

 

[Bill Bauer]

That's my point. People are really bad at judging just how loud something is, just cause they think/feel it's a safe volume, doesn't mean it actually is.

And yet - a study where the participants listen at a volume that is safe for them is MORE helpful to someone deciding whether it is safe to use headphones than a study where everyone got exposed to the same noise. What is safe for one person isn't safe for another, and our bodies often give us signals during the exposure to the noise that is likely to cause a spike/damage.

Some of the people who got exposed to the same noise might have thought it was too loud and then got a spike. Their experience is irrelevant for anyone who would never willingly expose himself to a noise that feels too loud. Some people might have thought that that sound was too quiet, and their experience is irrelevant to anyone who would not be listening to a volume that is too quiet.

 

[Michael Leigh]

My interpretation of this:

I will continue to say what I want to, because I believe people should learn from my opinions and experiences. I will, however, not listen to them in return, because I have no interest in learning from their opinions and experiences.

Keep calm.
Carry on.

You are sailing close to the wind as other disrespectful people that I have encountered on this forum. I have been polite and respectful towards you and in return you are being impertinent. Please be advised I will not tolerate this kind of insolence.

Good day
Michael

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I had once searched all accessible medical databases including (PubMed, Web of Science, Scopus) Keywords: Headphones Tinnitus Hearing Loss. I read the conclusions of maybe 50 - all had various negatives to use. One PubMed article, published by Who Environmental, said more study is needed.

 

[Michael Leigh]

You are sailing close to the wind as other disrespectful people that I have encountered on this forum. I have been polite and respectful towards you and in return you are being impertinent. Please be advised I will not tolerate this kind of insolence.

Good day
Michael

@MattS

I am pleased you found my comments funny, as I was laughing whilst writing them and could just about finish the post, before breaking down and chuckling. We Brits call this a wind up....

Glad you didn't take me seriously about time we have a little humour...

 

[T_Almost_Gone]

I cannot listen to music on the iphone. There is something about that which annoys my brain. I use a CD player.

Also, I cannot talk on the telephone for a length of time.

Before the full onset of my T for 2 weeks my ears had a lot of discomfort liek a painful vibration only from using the speaker phone on my mobile phone - using a standalone bluetooth speaker was fine. Maybe a sound engineer can articulate I think there's a difference to how sound is processed in mobiles

 

[star-affinity]

Before the full onset of my T for 2 weeks my ears had a lot of discomfort liek a painful vibration only from using the speaker phone on my mobile phone - using a standalone bluetooth speaker was fine. Maybe a sound engineer can articulate I think there's a difference to how sound is processed in mobiles

I know your comment is old, but I'm curious about this too!

When listening to music at night to mask my tinnitus, I used the phone in speaker mode (3-4 steps up from zero volume) next to my head in bed. One night my good ear made this "chirp" and since then I have had a high pitched and some high frequency hearing loss on that ear.

My ear did warn me by having some "ear fullness" and a lower pitched hiss before going to bed, so I thought I'd put some toilet paper in to cover things up a little. It worked fine for one night, but the second my ear "snapped".

I should have rested my ears and tried to sleep without music, but it was a busy week with family life and work. I had also been listening to the same music in this way most nights for months without any problems and "feeling" in my ears.

Anyway, it seems even a sound volume far from what is considered harmful seems to be able to cause harm if the ear is fatigued, and also maybe more so from the "sharper" low quality speaker of a phone compared to a dedicated one? Especially if the sound/music one listens to sometime go into the higher frequencies like the music I listened to does at times (sweeping synth):

"Sleeping Music" on the service Tidal:
https://tidal.com/album/77525403