Protecting? Overprotecting? Not Protecting?

[Jiri]

Ok. I noticed that there are "two schools" on this forum.

1. One strongly suggest to protect your ears as that will promote your 'healing' (you might probably already have a clue who I'm talking about), avoid loud places (that makes sense if you've got a noice induced tinnitus), maybe 'isolate' yourself for a year or two + something along the lines be 'always prepared' and 'take precautions' (fire alarms going off, ambulance sirene etc).
2. Then there is the other school. People who say 'life is for living', you can socialiase, try to get back to living your life as before BUT it's wise to use some kind of a protection when attending louder venues (earplugs, earmuffs). There is definitelly someting to it as in the publication 'Tinitus: 100 questions & answers' (Thora, Goebel, 2005)* these two doctors suggest literally to throw away all the earplugs as your brain will naturally increase its sensitivity to sounds otherwise (if you don't follow this advice) which results in developing Hyperacusis.

Here's the thing. I was a strong believer of the 'first school'. Saw multiple ENT's who also suggested not to use earmuffs and expose yourself to normal daily sounds - cause it's a brain thing and anything below 120 dB can't hurt you is what they said. They all agreed on this independently of each other. None of them mentioned anything about spikes. Not even once.

So I followed the advice of the 'first' school - got 3 pairs of Peltor earmuffs (1st Peltor Bull's Eye 1 for the chores at home, 2nd pair of Peltor Bull's Eye 1 black edition to look more 'tactictal' I guess when outside and I liked the low profile as well - NRR 27 dB, then I got Peltor X4A for the gym - NRR 33 dB, sometimes I even utilized double protection with Ohropax earplugs - I got loads of them) I would say I isolated myself as well to a degree, at least I said to myself for the 1st 3 - 6 months as I heard someone on here suggested. The reason for that was that this type of t. sufferes actually claimed to have observed an improvement in their noice-induced T as against to the other school who actually admitted to have their tinnitus got worse over time. Simple logic.

Needless to say I developed a "lovely" hyperacusis on top of my b. tinnitus. Louder sounds literally began to annoy and scare me to an extreme - it's well described in the publication that's mentioned above. Simpy put your brain will try to adjust to the new condition/protection and will try to break the protection barrier so it can hear what's going on in the world. A more profound explanation would be "Impulses from the auditory nerve to the brain switch in different centres along the way . In these centres they are either amplified or reduced . Only one ear cell leads to an activation of 40 nerve cells in the auditory cortex (where we hear). In hyperacusis this effect is even more potentiated and activated. Simply put, your perceptivness of sound is furthemore amplified." (Thora, Goebel, 2005, pp. 50 - 51)*

Ok. Now why I'm all saying this. It's 2 a.m. here and despite my best efforts to protect my ears one incident caused me today to get a new high tone in my previously better ear. A split of a second. A friend of mine leaned against an armrest of a wodden chair while we were talking. The armrest broke slamming fairly loudly (85 dB - 90 dB my rough estimate) against the leg of the chair and then the chair collapsed taking my friend down with it. So it was a loud event and I didn't have my muffs on. I was at home, safe right?

Despite my best efforts following the advice of the first school, I developed a hyperacusis and I am now beginnig to believe that if I chose a "middle ground" my ears would be better suited against these types of sudden impulse noises. The slight ringing in my better left ear now changed into a pure loud tone. So there you have it. It's now two loud tones in my ears fighting for my attention like two spoiled little brats preventing me from sleep and making me angry to the max. You do your best and the result is absolutely terrible.

Reminded me of the saying: "Hard work always pays off" -(bs)

References:

1. THORA, Carl a Gerhard GOEBEL. Tinitus: 100 otázek a odpovědí. Praha: Triton, 2006. ISBN 80-7254-739-9.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Needless to say I developed a "lovely" hyperacusis on top of my b. tinnitus.

Did you watch TV at the loudest volume that you can watch it at for a couple of hours, without having any problems? This has always been part of my advice.

My H got better (and then was gone) after I adopted the "first" approach, and that is because after I heard of the possibility that protection might cause H, I did what I could to ensure that this doesn't happen to me. The only thing one can do is to expose oneself, on a daily basis, to noises that are loud, but that are guaranteed to not be loud enough to cause a spike.

In any case, it is not too late to do this, and it ought to help.

I chose a "middle ground" my ears would be better suited against these types of sudden impulse noises.

I think that when you had adopted the strategy of protecting, your ears were more vulnerable than they are now, and so all of the noises that had no impact on you because you were careful about protecting yourself, would have done what that one noise did to you now - cause spikes.

But please do try the advice of the other school, and let us know what happens.

"Hard work always pays off"

Its Expected payoff is always positive (which does not rule out negative or zero payoffs).

 

[Tinniger]

The danger of noise is a function of loudness and exposure time:
https://chicagoent.com/dangerous-decibels-how-loud-is-too-loud/
90db should not be a problem for a short period for healthy ears.
Here is the theory that ears with tinnitus are more vulnerable. Maybe, wo knows...
In my opinion, the assessment of one's own tinnitus volume is difficult and subject to perception fluctuations.
There is also the phenomenon of self-fulfilling prophecy. If one expects or fears a deterioration of the tinnitus after a noise event, it will almost certainly occur.....

I recommend to read: http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Skinner/Pigeon/

 

[Sven]

Here is the theory that ears with tinnitus are more vulnerable.

I'm afraid that's true. I wouldn't be spiking (if it is just a spike) so badly if that weren't the case...

 

[Jiri]

Oh hi Bill. It's nice to hear from you again.

Well, first off. Yes. I was a big proponent of your school. "Our ears are compromised now. Need to be protected even from moderate sounds". Then I read other of your comments on this forum as to how much important this is. I also saw you beefing with others who weren't let's say on the same wavelength. These aren't cons or as I like to put it hater points. There is definitely some truth to that. Funnily enough, I put your advice in before the advice of doctors who wanted me to do the complete opposite. Just like in the book I mentioned earlier.

I remember you telling me about the TV.

Did you watch TV at the loudest volume that you can watch it at for a couple of hours

No. You only said that you got over your own H by watching TV. That was all. I don't rember you advice me to watch it at the loudes volume that I can watch it at. Besides, I don't have hours to watch TV. I only watch Step by Step on the telly once a day. I found a workabout by watching youtube videos (again, I don't have hours for that) + at that stage my mind was set already to :"our ears are comprosised - must protect". Tbh if you read some other horror stories on this forum and you're a newbie first thing you gonna do is exactly that, and invest in some good protection (3M).

In any case, it is not too late to do this, and it ought to help.

Hm, let's hope so.

But please do try the advice of the other school, and let us know what happens.

Are you serious? Lol after all the training and advice I got from you, you want me to just switch sides now and see what happens? No, thanks. Find some other guinea pig for that.

In any case I got H now from overprotecting and I've got to agree with what this guy said:

If your tinnitus was caused by noise trauma and you have hyperacusis. Sound levels of 59 db and lower can cause a spike.

 

[Bill Bauer]

What I'm learning now is that my emotional reaction to sound can contribute as much as sound can to worsening of H and TTTS. It's psychosomatic.

Can your emotional reaction cause a T spikes that lasts over a week?

You only said that you got over your own H by watching TV.

All I have been suggesting (and all I have been practicing myself) was to learn what we can from the posts made by others here. By reading the posts here, I learned that our ears are more vulnerable than the ears of healthy people. I also learned that protection can result in H. As a result, I began protecting, and also doing things to ensure that I don't get H. My guess is that watching YouTube for 0.5-1 hours a day (at the loudest volume you can tolerate for that period of time, without getting a spike) ought to be enough.

Are you serious? Lol after all the training and advice I got from you, you want me to just switch sides now and see what happens?

I was saying that if you feel like protecting hasn't worked well for you, you could try the other other approach. Since I want to learn as much as possible about this condition, I asked you to share your experience (good or bad) should you decide to do that.

 

[Jiri]

The danger of noise is a function of loudness and exposure time:

Well, the whole thing with sound is a lil bit more complicated than that. You've got intensity that is measured in dB. That's not all. You've got also different dB weightings - dB(A), dB(B), db(C) and dB(D). Noice dosimeters that are used in factories i.e. are set to dB(A) which reflects the sensitivity of the humans ear. HOWEVER, most, if not all, ear safety protectors are measured against the dB(C) scale. To get from the dB(C) scale to dB(A) scale you need to substract 7 dB from the NRR. It is one of the things I don't understand. Let's say they advertise earmuffs with NRR 34 dB. That's a lot. That is only the protection you get under IDEAL conditions and it's measured against a different scale. It's a lil like false advertising when you watch youtube reviews of earmuffs.

To cut this short, more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-weighting and here:

Also, there is the time factor of noise exposure. A huge difference between steady state sound and an impulse noise where you simply cannot use the rule of thumb. I won't go into too much detail here but this article is worth reading: http://earplugstore.typepad.com/got...dy-state-sound-vs-impulse-gunshot-noises.html and especially this: http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/earplugstore/recommendations-for-shootrs-and-hunters.pdf - because if you follow what the guy in the video is saying with regards to NRR than the head of a shooter would have to literally explode given that some firearms generate noises higher than 160 dB.

Anyway, to make things a little bit more confusing we must not forget about frequency. At a different intensity there is a different frequency. The intensity of the sound wave might be low but the frequency might be unpleasent to the human ear where I think comes into play your psychological side of things, that is that even though the intensity wasn't loud enough to cause any damage, the frequency might have been unpleasent and thus resulting in:

If one expects or fears a deterioration of the tinnitus after a noise event, it will almost certainly occur.....

Just my opinion tho. Looking at the absolute threshold of hearing graph (20hz - 20 kHz) might give a clue.

 

[Tinniger]

For sure it is a miracle, that loudness does not deal with frequency.
If I read 120db, - I think 120 db ???, - at each frequenzy, - or what....

 

[Jiri]

If I read 120db, - I think 120 db ???, - at each frequenzy,

Correct.

 

[Tinniger]

A fire alarm with 120db has no 120db at 100Hz.....

 

[Jiri]

A fire alarm with 120db has no 120db at 100Hz.....

I know nothing about fire alarms as where I live we don't have them in our homes.

Imagine it like this. Ringing a wooden bell as against to ringing a metal bell. Let's assume you can get to a high enough intensity that's harmful to the human ear ringing those bells, they'll jus sound different (frequency).

Wanna know more? Then you ought to ask a physicist who knows something about acoustics

 

[Tinniger]

You know how 100Hz sounds?

 

[Ambassador]

100 Hz is a low bass tone.

 

[glynis]

I think if sound is the same as your own voice level you should be fine.
Soft relaxing music is fine.
Deep bass music pounding and blasting like rock music then you need hearing protection.
Our ears can tell us what sounds hurts as we all are different but I would protect your ears slightly under National guide lines so 80 db would be best and not higher.
Love glynis x

 

[Jiri]

Can your emotional reaction cause a T spikes that lasts over a week?

Now it can, yes. Hyperacusis. It is estimated that roughly 50% of people with T have also H (the same publication).

It got to the point where I was walking with my sound meter around town, measuring the dB(A) levels. My brain increased its sensitvity to sound so much that now even if I wear my muffs outside I can still hear quite well what's going on around me. It hasn't been like this before. Now imagine how sensitive my hearing is when I take my muffs off. Flipping a lightswitch feels for me like someone just fired a photon torpedo. Always on red alert.

My guess is that watching YouTube for 0.5-1 hours a day (at the loudest volume you can tolerate for that period of time, without getting a spike) ought to be enough.

It's all about making guesses, trial and error and see what happens now, isn't it? I wanted to learn from you. That's why I was so happy after reading your initial post back in December and listening to your advice. Look, I don't blame you. The truth is, I'm 5 months in and I could swear I was doing a lot better in January. Now I get spikes on a weekly basis and harmless sounds scare the **** out of me. Then you get to the mental stage where you're awaiting that spike to happen which could also do a lot with one's subconsciousness - like a 'hard-wired reflex'; Pavlov experiment e.g. I feel I should start working now backwards to get rid of my H if I want to better my T.

I don't know. It's either that or my T is just getting progressively worse due to those 'shocks' I experienced along the way. Who knows if they even were that bad after all. A lot of people on here told me (docs included) that they couldn't do me any real harm with regards to my ears/hearing. Both you and me are anxious people, so I assume you understand what I mean by all of this.

You know what they say? Ignorance is bliss. Imagine being a tractorist who got a noice-induced tinnitus due to years of loud noise exposure. His lifestyle? Knows nothing about that strange sound in his head, after work goes home, watches a soccer match and then goes to his local pub getting trashed with his friends... doesn't care.

Then you have the other extreme. An anxious person who got this condition and immediately starts googling it, seeing all kinds of doctors (hearing the usual 'nothing we can do about it, bye bye'), reading all that specialized literature aiming at tinnitus and following forums that are overrepresented with people who are hurting + reading all those horror stories. That's gonna have a brutal impact on the individual's mentality & brain chemistry.

I was saying that if you feel like protecting hasn't worked well for you, you could try the other other approach.

I don't think it works like that.

 

[Jiri]

I think if sound is the same as your own voice level you should be fine.

I agree. It's a natural sound too. Unless it's a shouted conversation (90 dBA) or loud crying (95 dBA).

under National guide lines so 80 db would be best and not higher.

Again, I agree but without a calibrated noise dosimeter (those are very expensive) I can't honestly tell if it's 80 dB(A) higher or lower, viz my previous comment.

 

[Bill Bauer]

It is estimated that roughly 50% of people with T have also H (the same publication).

We have to be careful about definitions. Are those the people who have had H for only 6 months, or are those the people who are suffering from permanent H? My H was completely gone around 9 months after onset, I believe it was mostly gone by 6 months after onset.

now even if I wear my muffs outside I can still hear quite well what's going on around me

This is normal. I have always been able to hear everything around me when I wear my Peltor muffs. This had even happened when I was using my muffs on an airplane. If you are sure that you Couldn't hear everything around you when you wore your muffs several months ago, then perhaps you have been suffering from reduced ability to hear, that had now been restored.

Now imagine how sensitive my hearing is when I take my muffs off.

Like I said, I can still hear everything (people talking quietly, etc) with my muffs on. The sounds don't bother me when I take my muffs off.

It's all about making guesses

Educated guesses based on what I know had happened to me personally as well as based on what I learned after reading posts here for many months.

I wanted to learn from you.

And you did.

The truth is, I'm 5 months in and I could swear I was doing a lot better in January.

Could your problems had been caused by the following incidents:

January 16:

After a hyperbaric oxygen therapy on my way home a van crashed into me from the back.

January 20

two loud firecrackers exploded about 30 m away from me just now. I was indoors in my room.

The first one I had no protection on my ears. I heard it explode. Then I quickly put my Peltor Bull's Eye 1 (-27 dB SNR) on and the second one blew up!

February 1:

I was driven to one of the hospitals in Prague where they specialize in Tinnitus in a crappy old ambulance. Each time the driver would slam the sliding door shut it'd generate a noise of 114 dB (obviously not a long time in duration but still, it was inside a small closed area - a van).

And that was about 8 - 9 times during the whole journey as I wasn't the only passenger.

I was using double hearing protection 32 dB SNR earplugs + 27 dB SNR Peltor Muffs. I figure that makes - 37 dB. In total I was then exposed to 77 dB each time the driver opened and shut the sliding door.

First of all, have you considered how you might have been feeling now had you not had ear protection on (as a result of following the advice of school 1) when you had some of those incidents happen to you?

Second of all, those things (that happened in the second part of January) might be the reason why you are feeling worse now, compared to how you felt before those events took place. Why blame it on protecting your ears, if there are other major possible causes (e.g., concussion/whiplash, etc.)

It's either that or my T is just getting progressively worse due to those 'shocks' I experienced along the way.

I see that you Had considered that possibility. I am still glad that I listed those shocks here. This might help the new people reading this which school's advice they want to try.

A lot of people on here told me (docs included) that they couldn't do me any real harm with regards to my ears/hearing.

You may recall multiple posts where doctors might tell someone that something (I will choose something at random here, but of course there are Countless examples of this) like microsuction is harmless only for T to clearly get worse after microsuction.

You know what they say? Ignorance is bliss. Imagine being a tractorist who got a noice-induced tinnitus due to years of loud noise exposure. His lifestyle? Knows nothing about that strange sound in his head, after work goes home, watches a soccer match and then goes to his local pub getting trashed with his friends... doesn't care.

It is my understanding that, on average, people with Down's syndrome are happier than people who don't suffer from Down's syndrome...

 

[Ed209]

@Jiri, I've been telling people on here not to over-protect for years. I think it's the wrong strategy. I believe it keeps you anxious towards sounds, and keeps the mind preoccupied with T. The tinnitus definitely tends to back off when you stop thinking about it obsessively. However, this is really hard to do, if not impossible, if you're living in a shielded bubble 24/7. This only inflates the problem if you sit reading horror stories on tinnitus forums all day. The self-fulfilling prophecy thing is absolutely true, and I can testify that my life was hell when I lived in my bubble of anxiety. It can be incredibly hard to escape these horrible feelings if you live in a this shadow of fear. I was having spikes all the time, and my life had become unbearable. I decided enough was enough, and I cut all ties with this forum for around 6 months whilst I worked on my recovery. This included: new hobbies, writing songs, working on my chess ranking, sorting out my diet, and exercising (great way to release serotonin). Whilst doing all this I FORCED myself to ignore T no matter how it made me feel. I would hear it raging away whilst writing music and I would pretend it wasn't there. I'd use every ounce of strength to disregard it. I stopped wearing earplugs in my car, and over time I completely stopped wearing them when out and about around normal everyday stuff.

The result: in my case, a huge improvement in my mental health and anxiety, and a huge improvement in the way I deal with my tinnitus. I stopped being it's slave and made it mine.

I will add that no professional ever advised me to protect my ears around everyday stuff. Take from that what you will but my only reason to post nowadays is to help out and share my experience. I was aware that most people just disappear once they feel better and never usually give updates. This gives the impression that no-one ever improves because you don't often hear positive feedback.

 

[Jiri]

We have to be careful about definitions. Are those the people who have had H for only 6 months, or...

You need to read the publication if you'd like it in more detail. This is what was stated in the book.

This is normal.

Ok. Before the speech was more muffled. Now it's clearer with the muffs on. That's just one example. Also, it is scientifically proven that if you wear hearing protection for extended periods of time your brain will respond to the situation in such a way I described in my previous comment.

Educated guesses based on what I know had happened to me personally as well as based on what I learned after reading posts here for many months.

This is what you told me in the beginning and also the reason why I decided to "shield" myself against potentially harmful sounds. Like so many people on here mentioned the borderline was said to be 80 dB(A) - Glynis i.e. I took it for granted and is why I decided to get a sound meter recommended to me by Alue. Its reliability is a different story.

January 16

Potentially, yes. I had a full check up tho including a numerous x-rays and a full CT scan of my c. spine. Everything was in place (discs, vertebra etc.). Also, I asked specifically for an ultrasound of my aa. vertebrales that are known to be a main possible cause of tinnitus if pinched in the neck area, apart from pinched vagus nerve - but for that the symptoms are quite clear - nausea. So, apart from stiff neck muscles/ligaments the surgeon reassured me 'no T'.

January 20

Ok. Good point. Thankfully there's maths, online calculators (http://www.wkcgroup.com/tools-room/inverse-square-law-sound-calculator/) and EU standards for how strong publicly available explosives can be. There's also an online version of a land register where you can view the whole area and measure accurately distances. Let's cut this short, I have an idea whose kids might have set off those firecrackers and after calculating it all, the sound that reached me was around 70 - 75 dB at max. (keep in mind I was still indoors), then I put my muffs on, so even less.

February 1:

Finally, this is the one sad episode that's still on my mind to this day. Honestly? I've got no idea. I utilized a double protection and that sound meter URCERI is fairly inaccurate tbh. It was cheap as well, so no surprise there. It could or it could have not worsened my tinnitus. I'm being sceptical about this one so I think it did. Not sure to what ext.

This might help the new people reading this which school's advice they want to try.

I just knew you would say this at one point or another. I'm also happy I now provided some thoughts on my 'shocks' with a hindsight. The moral of the story should be these things are unavoidable and can happen to anybody. We cannot know to what extend they actually affected my tinnitus. It's also got nothing to do with your "school".

It is my understanding that, on average, people with Down's syndrome are happier than people who don't suffer from Down's syndrome...

Lol, wut? What does this have to do with anything...

 

[Bill Bauer]

The moral of the story should be these things are unavoidable and can happen to anybody.

That is not the way I see it. You WERE able to partially protect yourself during all three of those incidents.

It's also got nothing to do with your "school".

It did. If you were not to adopt the advice of school 1, you would have been in that van (and in that car during a crash) unprotected.

Lol, wut? What does this have to do with anything...

It supports your statement that ignorance is bliss/can be a blessing.

 

[Jiri]

I've been telling people on here not to over-protect for years. I think it's the wrong strategy. I believe it keeps you anxious towards sounds, and keeps the mind preoccupied with T. The tinnitus definitely tends to back off when you stop thinking about it obsessively. However, this is really hard to do, if not impossible, if you're living in a shielded bubble 24/7. This only inflates the problem if you sit reading horror stories on tinnitus forums all day. The self-fulfilling prophecy thing is absolutely true, and I can testify that my life was hell when I lived in my bubble of anxiety. It can be incredibly hard to escape these horrible feelings if you live in a this shadow of fear. I was having spikes all the time, and my life had become unbearable. I decided enough was enough, and I cut all ties with this forum for around 6 months whilst I worked on my recovery. This included: new hobbies, writing songs, working on my chess ranking, sorting out my diet, and exercising (great way to release serotonin). Whilst doing all this I FORCED myself to ignore T no matter how it made me feel. I would hear it raging away whilst writing music and I would pretend it wasn't there. I'd use every ounce of strength to disregard it. I stopped wearing earplugs in my car, and over time I completely stopped wearing them when out and about around normal everyday stuff.

The result: in my case, a huge improvement in my mental health and anxiety, and a huge improvement in the way I deal with my tinnitus. I stopped being it's slave and made it mine.

I will add that no professional ever advised me to protect my ears around everyday stuff. Take from that what you will but my only reason to post nowadays is to help out and share my experience. I was aware that most people just disappear once they feel better and never usually give updates. This gives the impression that no-one ever improves because you don't often hear positive feedback.

Thanks for your input.

I read a couple of your posts. I also saw you beefing here with Bill. In my opinion, you and AZeuroturner are prime representatives of the "2nd school".

Note: I don't mean to offend anybody. It's just my own personal view on things.

The real question is, has your tinnitus improved over time with your attitude and course of action or not? It is also possible that it got worse (like sadly in the case of AZeuro).

You said that you forced yourself to ignore your tinnitus. That doesn't however equal the t. fading away gradually - which is what Bill's case is, at least so he claims.

I believe by taking a break from this forum and what you were doing is leading by a good example - overprotecting is bad and I had to learn it the hard way. Now I'm trying to break this vicious circle and start working on improving myself. Just not sure if I'm capable of it anymore. It'd all be a lot easier if I saw an improvement in my own tinnitus.

Again, it boils down to whether your tinnitus has improved or not? Because results, right?

Perhaps, there should be a "middle ground" to all of this. I don't judge. Just observe what others, more experienced users do, then I try to add those succsessful strategies to my own arsenal.

 

[Gman]

Can your emotional reaction cause a T spikes that lasts over a week?

I deleted my post as I didn't see the point contributing. Anyway I meant H and TTTS symptoms not normal T spikes. But I suppose T spikes connected to H and TTTS, yes. My H from a sound tolerance perspective and horrible TTTS has improved a lot since I've started actively changing my reactions to sound. I can calm my tonic tensor muscle with positive thoughts, to an extent. The reactive T days are still happening but trying to work on desensitising. If that makes sense. It's baby steps at the moment.

 

[Bill Bauer]

The real question is, has your tinnitus improved over time with your attitude and course of action or not?

To be fair, a lot also depends on the extent of the original injury that had caused T in the first place. Some people's injury had been so severe that they won't recover no matter what they do. Other people were lucky enough to suffer a mild injury, and no matter what they do, they will likely recover (unless they actually are careless enough to get a new injury that is worse than their initial trauma). I believe that there are sufferers out there for whom protection might make a difference. It is difficult to evaluate the size of the fraction of sufferers who belong to this group.

 

[Ed209]

The real question is, has your tinnitus improved over time with your attitude and course of action or not? It is also possible that it got worse (like sadly in the case of AZeuro).

You can call it a fading in my case, but it's all perception based. Objectively it hasn't, but for me hearing it it has. Tinnitus is a brain condition so perception counts for everything. I believe the 'back to silence' method works on the exact same mechanism as what I discovered, and it is what TRT tries to induce. To divert your active consciousness away from the noise so that it does not involve your limbic system.

I think we need to look at quality of life more than the noise itself. Our reaction to it counts for a lot because it's this that drives our emotions. If it makes us react badly all the time, then everyday is going to be a bad day, no matter what. Until there's a cure, this is all we have and it's by far the best way to deal with it.

 

[Ed209]

Thanks for your input.

I read a couple of your posts. I also saw you beefing here with Bill. In my opinion, you and AZeuroturner are prime representatives of the "2nd school".

Note: I don't mean to offend anybody. It's just my own personal view on things.

The real question is, has your tinnitus improved over time with your attitude and course of action or not? It is also possible that it got worse (like sadly in the case of AZeuro).

You said that you forced yourself to ignore your tinnitus. That doesn't however equal the t. fading away gradually - which is what Bill's case is, at least so he claims.

I believe by taking a break from this forum and what you were doing is leading by a good example - overprotecting is bad and I had to learn it the hard way. Now I'm trying to break this vicious circle and start working on improving myself. Just not sure if I'm capable of it anymore. It'd all be a lot easier if I saw an improvement in my own tinnitus.

Again, it boils down to whether your tinnitus has improved or not? Because results, right?

Perhaps, there should be a "middle ground" to all of this. I don't judge. Just observe what others, more experienced users do, then I try to add those succsessful strategies to my own arsenal.

You're not the only one jiri, @JurgenG also caused further problems by over-protecting. There are many on here who are in the same boat. If you find yourself panicking everytime you leave the house, or anytime you hear a modest sound, then you have phonophobia/anxiety issues relating to sound. This kind of unhealthy relationship can, and will, cause changes in your brain. Your brain is like a spotlight, so it will highlight anything you perceive as a threat. I had far more spikes when I was really anxious compared to now.

I'll add a disclaimer that some have severe H which can be very limiting, but it's often dealt with the same way; by slowly re-introducing sound to the auditory system. In these cases I can totally understand why one would use earplugs because the pain can be very intense.

 

[Jiri]

To be fair, a lot also depends on the extent of the original injury that had caused T in the first place. Some people's injury had been so severe that they won't recover no matter what they do. Other people were lucky enough to suffer a mild injury, and no matter what they do, they will likely recover (unless they actually are careless enough to get a new injury that is worse than their initial trauma). I believe that there are sufferers out there for whom protection might make a difference. It is difficult to evaluate the size of the fraction of sufferers who belong to this group.

No one in their right mind can disagree with this.

I know you mean well and try to advocate the philosophy "better safe than sorry." Unfortunatelly, in many instances (myself included), people who are new to tinnitus might go to great lenghts to ensure they are now well protected even against 'moderate sounds' as you put it. This will then likely result in them getting a bad case of H on top of things and from there it's a downward spiral (H & T getting worse and eventually getting mad spikes out of pure anxiety). Then you learn about TTTS & ADS, suddenly you have all the symptoms in the world and it's pretty damn difficult to get out of that vicious circle. I now sadly realise......

Say, Glynis i.e. Always refers to the threshold level where one may experience a t. spike after being exposed to about 80 dB(A) or more. Ok. So how do you exactly know if it was 80 dB(A) and not 75 db(A) e.g.? I'm not a walking noise dosimeter after all. If I then decide to follow your advice, I will always try to shield myself against even 'moderate sounds', the brain will naturally increase its sensitivity to sound levels (as I mentioned already a half dozen of times) and then even a slight jump from 30 dB(A) to 50 dB(A) /keep in mind we're on a logarithmic scale/ will feel like an infrasonic shockwave caused by the explosion of the Tungusca meteor.

Objectively it hasn't, but for me hearing it it has.

This I don't understand. Even if you go to an audiologist and they try to measure the level of your tinnitus it's going to be all subjective. It's you who says "Yup, that's what I hear" and gives them a thumbs up. Not to mention that in the middle of the day after talking to people and simply concentrating on other things your perception of your own t. will be a lot smaller (almost as if you have to search for it in some instances) compared to how you then hear it later on roaring in the middle of the night.

Isn't it why it's called subjective? Only you yourself can estimate the sound level of it. So by this logic then, it either has got better or it hasn't. At least, that's my understanding of it.

or anytime you hear a modest sound

Yes, that's exactly me now 5 months in. As a matter of fact, it's got so far that I wear my muffs at home most of the time - because of "unexpected small micro-traumas" that won't promote healing, right? Someone opening the door quickly, flipping the lightswitch, plates of course and so on and so forth. I can literally hear my whole head ringing.

Panic, anxiety, phonophobia & hyperacusis. I was thinking if I get rid of tinntitus, then the rest will go away naturally. Now I'm thinking it's the other way around.

Who should you listent to then when it comes to advice? Your own gut feeling, people here on the forum or doctors who forbid you from going on those exact same online forums and reading about it on the net in general?

TRT and CBT. I saw people complaining about these therapies on here too. Tbh I'm at a dead end.

This kind of unhealthy relationship can, and will, cause changes in your brain. Your brain is like a spotlight, so it will highlight anything you perceive as a threat.

I'm aware of this. Just can't break the cycle now.

 

[Ed209]

No one in their right mind can disagree with this.

I know you mean well and try to advocate the philosophy "better safe than sorry." Unfortunatelly, in many instances (myself included), people who are new to tinnitus might go to great lenghts to ensure they are now well protected even against 'moderate sounds' as you put it. This will then likely result in them getting a bad case of H on top of things and from there it's a downward spiral (H & T getting worse and eventually getting mad spikes out of pure anxiety). Then you learn about TTTS & ADS, suddenly you have all the symptoms in the world and it's pretty damn difficult to get out of that vicious circle. I now sadly realise......

Say, Glynis i.e. Always refers to the threshold level where one may experience a t. spike after being exposed to about 80 dB(A) or more. Ok. So how do you exactly know if it was 80 dB(A) and not 75 db(A) e.g.? I'm not a walking noise dosimeter after all. If I then decide to follow your advice, I will always try to shield myself against even 'moderate sounds', the brain will naturally increase its sensitivity to sound levels (as I mentioned already a half dozen of times) and then even a slight jump from 30 dB(A) to 50 dB(A) /keep in mind we're on a logarithmic scale/ will feel like an infrasonic shockwave caused by the explosion of the Tungusca meteor.


This I don't understand. Even if you go to an audiologist and they try to measure the level of your tinnitus it's going to be all subjective. It's you who says "Yup, that's what I hear" and gives them a thumbs up. Not to mention that in the middle of the day after talking to people and simply concentrating on other things your perception of your own t. will be a lot smaller (almost as if you have to search for it in some instances) compared to how you then hear it later on roaring in the middle of the night.

Isn't it why it's called subjective? Only you yourself can estimate the sound level of it. So by this logic then, it either has got better or it hasn't. At least, that's my understanding of it.

Yes, that's exactly me now 5 months in. As a matter of fact, it's got so far that I wear my muffs at home most of the time - because of "unexpected small micro-traumas" that won't promote healing, right? Someone opening the door quickly, flipping the lightswitch, plates of course and so on and so forth. I can literally hear my whole head ringing.

Panic, anxiety, phonophobia & hyperacusis. I was thinking if I get rid of tinntitus, then the rest will go away naturally. Now I'm thinking it's the other way around.

Who should you listent to then when it comes to advice? Your own gut feeling, people here on the forum or doctors who forbid you from going on those exact same online forums and reading about it on the net in general?

TRT and CBT. I saw people complaining about these therapies on here too. Tbh I'm at a dead end.


I'm aware of this. Just can't break the cycle now.

I've had many people PM me who have exactly the same dilemma. Gradually becoming more and more adverse to sound and finding themselves wearing earmuffs everywhere. This behaviour is usually fed by reading the forums too much.

My T hasn't changed; it's loud and it's intrusive but my stark 180 turnaround in how I react to it has changed my perception of it. The only way I can describe this is it's like it exists on a parallel plane of my brain. It's always there but I care so little that my brain doesn't feel the need to pester me about it.

 

[Bill Bauer]

This will then likely result in them getting a bad case of H

Unless they do that TV thing.

So how do you exactly know if it was 80 dB(A) and not 75 db(A) e.g.?

This is the reason to set the threshold lower - that way you are unlikely to exceed the threshold that is known to dangerous.

So by this logic then, it either has got better or it hasn't.

Ed is saying that while the volume hasn't changed, the frequency of the times when he is bothered by the sound has fallen.

Someone opening the door quickly, flipping the lightswitch, plates of course and so on and so forth. I can literally hear my whole head ringing.

I never did this myself, and I never advocated anything that extreme. Several times I washed the dishes while wearing my muffs, but that it.

Who should you listent to then when it comes to advice?

Your own gut feeling.

 

[Ed209]

Your own gut feeling.

Good point. Gut feelings have been proven to be a good indicator of potential problems.

 

[Jiri]

This behaviour is usually fed by reading the forums too much.

I couldn't agree more. Most of the time now I try to spend reading the research news on this forum and at least having some hope for better tomorrows.

Anyway, it's clear now I got a bad case of H and I guess the strategy to get rid of it and "come to terms with my T" would be to leave the forum, listen to my gut feelings (which are pretty mixed atm tbh) and just go with the flow?

Will my T, or at least my perceptivness of it lower if I manage to slowly reintroduce myself to normal daily sounds (which atm sounds damn near impossible)? Any tips & tricks are most welcome, pointers too.

Just don't think I could force myself to ignore it like you did. That's a sci-fi for me(becoming a Jedi is more realistic)

I like how this guy describes his tinnitus @2:02 That's like everyone's goal I guess. There's also a video of him having that bad spike before (not easy to watch at all).
Also 3M have a good paper about this, stating that: "Many noise exposures only require about 10 dB of noise reduction for adequate protection from noise damage." I'll attach the paper to this comment.

Unless they do that TV thing.

Oh yes, the TV thing. I was just watching Stargate on the telly at the max possible volume I could watch it at. H still there and my right ear is yelling at me now.

This is the reason to set the threshold lower - that way you are unlikely to exceed the threshold that is known to dangerous.

I hate to repeat myself but again, I am not a walking noise dosimeter. Especially at this stage it is pretty difficult for me to guesstimate what intensity certain sounds are - all viz my previous comments. If I had this ability I think I'd not have developed hyperacusis in the first place. Just a theory.

Several times I washed the dishes while wearing my muffs, but that it.

I'm sorry but this is typical. I'm pretty annoyed that due to that maintanance thing or whatever it was all of my conversations got deleted. No. You highlighted that I should wear ear protection when e.g. washing the dishes aka clanking plates as this gave you yourself a spike (nowhere near close to a moderate sound intensity btw).