Protecting? Overprotecting? Not Protecting?

[Lane]

I didn't read all the above comments, but did peruse a fair amount of it, and ran across many good points on both sides of the argument. What strikes me is there seems to be an underlying assumption (of course I may be wrong on this) that all brains and neurological systems are created equal. The way I see it, that's simply not the case, so everybody's way of dealing with tinnitus and/or hyperacusis is going to have to be highly individualized.

I read a book many years ago called "Adrenal Syndrome". A lot of the book touched on the residual resiliency of people's adrenal glands as they respond to life's stresses. Very low resiliency often resulted in months/years of chronic debilitating exhaustion following a stressful event(s) in their lives. Very high resiliency indicated essentially the opposite. The author broke this down into some rough numbers:

25% of people have low resiliency, meaning normal life stressors will often send them into some degree of a tailspin.
25% of people have high resiliency, meaning that no matter how severe a stressor comes into their lives, they will be able to cope without becoming debilitated to any degree.
50% of people fall somewhere inbetween.

I believe there are some kind of corresponding numbers for a person's brain and neurological resiliency as well, which can greatly affect the ability to cope with tinnitus. (I believe adrenal resiliency also plays a major role in our ability to cope). -- Based on these assumptions, it's pretty easy for me to conclude that what may be overprotection for one person will be underprotection for another, and vice versa.

I think the main point to understand for someone new to tinnitus is that their path forward is going to be a lot of "testing the waters". Generally, IMHO, it's going to take a few weeks or months to get important insights that will help us achieve a healthy balance. In all likelihood, most people are going to learn from experience when their over-protecting or under-protecting.

I've come to believe however, that in those early months, if one is going to err in either direction, it should be toward overprotection. It just seems to me the consequences of underprotection (which could result in permanent injury) in those early times are much more dire than the consequences of overprotection--which as I understand, generally results in temporary setbacks.

Doing a number of things to better support the brain and neurological system and the body's stress response (adrenal glands) is quite high on my list of recommendations I would make to anybody with tinnitus. Doing so might even prevent phonophobia or OCD, etc., as we go through our learning curves -- Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Ed209]

It is better than having to struggle with severe T.

This doesn't make sense because nobody is going to cause damage whilst sitting on the sofa at home. It's the damaging belief one has that the sounds around them are a problem and can inflict harm. There is a very strong link between the emotional response to sound and how tinnitus is perceived in the brain, so it's a recipe for disaster to sit listening to your tinnitus all day whilst monitoring every sound. There is certainly no benefit. Advising others that this is the best way to approach tinnitus is toxic advice and people shouldn't take any notice.

I also get heartbreaking messages. People assume earplugs will protect them in a loud environment and then find out the hard way that this is not the case. They ought to send PMs to you (in addition to contacting me).

This is a grey area as it depends on how loud the environment is. Most situations are safe with earplugs; there are places that could cause further damage, but there has to be a degree of common sense involved here. There is a stark difference between having a panic attack over having a conversation without ear protection and going to a gun range or an insanely loud gig. Using double protection all day long serves no purpose other than to make one's tinnitus worse and/or create other significant mental health problems.

I had never advocated to be scared of every sound in existence. What I had advocated was

Your advice has directly scared the shit out of many people, and because of what they've seen you write they have resorted to drastically overprotecting themselves.

If a sound is creating spikes, it is likely dangerous (unless one can literally create one's own reality with one's mind, and get one's body to do anything - to hurt when it is not hurt, to ring when there is no reason to ring).

Many issues here relate to the emotional reaction to sound. For example, there are people getting spikes from the sound of distant traffic, speaking, walking on gravel, tweeting birds, etc. All of these people are using double protection just to get through the day and they still complain about spikes to sounds that are so far removed from being harmful that it's obvious there is a problem with the response from their limbic system.

Better yet - do not do any of the things above. Hearing protection can provide a False sense of security.

Stupid advice. Why bother living? Just put yourself in a padded cell and call it a day.

We are in agreement there. Try to be in a safe and quiet environment for most of the day, and you will not need to protect your ears for most of the day.

Therein lies the paradox. What you're advocating cannot be achieved and is exactly why people are losing their minds over every sound they come across, and I'm talking about stuff that's quiet (whilst using double protection). This is what people end up doing.

People just need to be sensible. There is no need for all this over the top scaremongering as it feeds the fear and creates even more phonophobia. In return, this feeds the tinnitus and creates spikes and more sensitive ears.

 

[Jiri]

All I hope is that someone will read what I posted here yesterday and learn from the mistake that I made

Also, please read his posts that I quoted above that show some possible reasons why he hasn't recovered despite doing the right things

See? Always needs to have the last word in everything. I said that in hopes that someone reads it and will think twice about "utilizing double protection", overprotecting, and taking Prednisone pills when exposed to moderate sounds. Yet you quote that part and alert everyone that they should look up the part where you show "possible reasons" why I haven't recovered yet by "doing the right things" which in turn again, supports your ideology. So yes, you are skilled in twisting things around to support your agenda.

You must be talking about me writing that the only thing better than preventing someone from making their T worse, is having them not to listen to your warnings and then learning the Hard Way that it was a mistake.

Yes. In particular the kid visitting dance recital. Calling my friends here Marijuana junkies is also not very nice.

Have a good day.

 

[Ed209]

How you doing nowadays, @Jiri? I remember talking to you about all this stuff via PM ages ago. I hope you're feeling better buddy.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

I noticed that there are "two schools" on this forum.

Indeed. However, dichotomies exist not only in relation to the age-old debate about protecting or not protecting (sounds almost like sex education!) – "schools" relate also to those who rightfully vent their frustration and then to all those who spend their entire existence on TinnitusTalk and yet claim they are only here because... well... because they... ahem... just want to help others! I guess we can infer from the latter camp that they are really generous people...

 

[Bill Bauer]

This doesn't make sense because nobody is going to cause damage whilst sitting on the sofa at home.

Who said they would?

This is getting tiresome and ridiculous. Do you have any arguments besides the straw man argument? Of course the target audience for my posts is not you, but newbies who are trying to decide what to do. However, it is getting to the point where my guess is that the newbies are unlikely to be reading any longer.

There is a stark difference between having a panic attack over having a conversation without ear protection

We've been over this before. I love it how you are basically not listening to me - as I had already addressed the above. Here we go again - of course nobody would ever panic after a conversation. What normally happens is that a person has a conversation, is calm, and THEN gets a major spike causing them to post here saying that they are having a spike after being exposed to loud voices. And if that level gives them a spike (despite them being calm and enjoying the company of their friends for once), then that level IS dangerous for them, and they should Learn from their Mistake, instead of pretending that this isn't happening.

tweeting birds

Same explanation as the one I gave above. You had mixed up the causality. Stress didn't cause a spike. It is just birds - it would never occur to anyone to get stressed out about that. The spiked (due to birds) caused the stress. Also, if you've ever been to a tropical destination, you would not find it surprising that sounds made by birds could cause problems.

Stupid advice. Why bother living? Just put yourself in a padded cell and call it a day.

Believe it or not, there are many things out there that are enjoyable while not being loud.

What you're advocating cannot be achieved

It could be, as long as people protect themselves whenever they are in danger of being exposed to the kind of noise that had caused problems for them in the past.

Calling my friends here Marijuana junkies is also not very nice.

All I said was that whenever someone mentions abusing marijuana, I place them on my Ignore List. I am not interested in what they have to say. I also have no interest in giving advice to them.

all those who spend their entire existence on TinnitusTalk and yet claim they are only here because... well... because they... ahem... just want to help others!

You are referring to me, right? I am mainly here to read the "horror stories" so that I can learn from others' mistakes. Trust me - I am not spending my entire existence here. Having said this, I take tinnitus seriously. I would be willing to pay a lot (in terms of my time and energy) for a minuscule reduction in the probability of ending up with an unimaginably disturbing outcome.

 

[RichL]

Overprotecting in the way some members do is never the right way to go. In fact, I can't think of anything worse for a tinnitus sufferer. It's clear to me, Bill, that you honestly have no understanding of the struggle some members are having with severe phonophobia. The messages I read are heartbreaking; they are trapped in the same way that a person with severe OCD is. Do you think living with severe OCD is good? Have you seen the direct suffering and misery that it leads to?

It blows my mind that you are still adamant about this when there are suicidal people reading it who are literally scared of every sound in existence. I read their suffering regularly and they are trapped. They cannot escape their own thoughts and are now completely incapacitated by their compulsion to use ear plugs and muffs (at the same time) at all hours of the day, non-stop. And even then, sounds that are not dangerous are creating spikes, and this pattern of behaviour is causing them untold misery (basically, name any sound and it will be perceived as threatening). People do not have to live this way. If you're someone who is currently going through this and you realise that it's taking over your life and making you suicidal, please seek professional help. The tinnitus is in your brain, so behaving in this way will make it worse, not better.

With that said, it's sensible and advisable to protect your ears if you are in a dangerously loud environment. If it's too loud you should also think about leaving.

If you are going to use power tools, use ear protection. If you're going to a party, use ear protection. If you're going to a fireworks display, use ear protection. If you're going to a sporting event, use ear protection, etc, etc.

There is no need to double protect your ears around the clock. Depriving your senses in this way will lead to depression, anxiety, louder tinnitus and/or hyperacusis, phonophobia, and more importantly, it will consume your life. Concentrate on all the things that make you happy and stop this obsessive behaviour before it takes hold.

Totally correct, I am a classic example of 25 plus years of foam earplug dependence, been through bouts of depression and suffer with anxiety, a living hell at the moment and for the past three and a half years since stupidly having micro suction with sensitive hearing because of ear plug over use.

 

[Bill Bauer]

a living hell at the moment and for the past three and a half years since stupidly having micro suction

So your T got permanently worse after you didn't protect your ears one time, and now you are saying that it is not a good idea to protect one's ears?

You must have had a reason to protect all of those years - you got a spike whenever you would not protect, right? Otherwise it is difficult to imagine someone protecting for that many years, with no feedback telling one that protection is a good idea. If you have had that feedback, then why do you think that listening to your body for all of those years has been a mistake?

 

[Bill Bauer]

@Jiri May I ask you to clarify one thing? According to you, if not for me, you would not be protecting your ears in the past. That seems to imply that if not for me, you would not have been wearing any protection back when you had that car crash and when you spent time in that van (as normally it never occurs to people who recently got T to wear protection when driving - in the past that kind of a sound had never caused problems, so why worry about it). Back then, you wrote that you had serious spikes after those two events (and I linked to your descriptions in that message I posted several days ago that you claimed not to have read). Surely you will agree that your spikes would have been much worse had you not been wearing protection those two times, right?! If that is the case, then what is the problem?

 

[Ed209]

Of course the target audience for my posts is not you, but newbies who are trying to decide what to do.

That's the problem, Bill. Newbies should not be reading your posts and I've given up counting the PMs where they directly quote you for causing them extreme anxiety. When you implant this seed in a vulnerable persons mind it can lead to severe mental health problems, but we've been over this a million times and you won't listen and don't even understand why.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Newbies should not be reading your posts and I've given up counting the PMs where they directly quote you for causing them extreme anxiety.

Ok, Ed. I was holding back, but it is indeed important to point out to the newbies that they shouldn't be listening to you.

I can play this game too. Back when you gave yourself a permanent spike by staying in that loud MRI machine, I had people write to me that you became the victim of your own brainwashing. I am not making this up, and of course I do agree with them. If you were to be on the lookout for the sounds that can harm your ears, your T would be quieter now. It is surprising that you haven't learned from your own mistake.

You will agree that being cautious around noise and protecting one's ears needs to save you from a permanent spike only once, for it to be all worthwhile. You also have to agree that if someone listens to you, the downside to them can be enormous and suicide-inducing. Enough said.

 

[kmohoruk]

I think this is all getting a little heated here.

Let's all take a deep breath. Shake it off (as T-Swizzle would say ).

I hope everyone has a.....

 

[Jiri]

I think this is all getting a little heated here.

Indeed, it is. There is, however, a very good reason for that. What the poster right above you advocates is dangerous.

I can play this game too.

You think this is a game? You very much lost this argument about 20 posts ago on page 4 of this thread.

How you doing nowadays, @Jiri? I remember talking to you about all this stuff via PM ages ago. I hope you're feeling better buddy.

This is why I didn't answer your question in line and p.m.ed you instead. I know certain someone is lurking on this board, and would search for any tiny hole in my reply to you in order to discredit what was stated here.

 

[Bill Bauer]

There is, however, a very good reason for that. What the poster above you advocates is dangerous.

And what you advocate is not? Tell it to the folks that I quoted in the first post of the thread below
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/learn-from-others-mistakes.29437/
You advocate listening to ENTs, tell it to the 90% of the folks who voted in
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...orum-more-useful-than-your-ents-advice.28006/

You think this is a game?

You need to work on your English. English speakers will understand that I was referring to him citing "people who had contacted me privately" and me saying that up until now I was refraining from talking about PMs that I have been receiving, and I am going to do this too, for once.

You very much lost this argument about 20 posts ago on page 4 of this thread.

LOL I love it how you just make statements without backing them up with arguments. I feel like the main character in that movie About Schmidt who was writing long letters to a kid he sponsored only to get back a response from a child that made it clear the recipient of his letter hasn't read what he wrote and has no capacity to follow any of it even if she did.

You have Chutzpah, I will give you that. To say that I was the one who lost the argument, right after you reveal your inability to say anything regarding

@Jiri May I ask you to clarify one thing? According to you, if not for me, you would not be protecting your ears in the past. That seems to imply that if not for me, you would not have been wearing any protection back when you had that car crash and when you spent time in that van (as normally it never occurs to people who recently got T to wear protection when driving - in the past that kind of a sound had never caused problems, so why worry about it). Back then, you wrote that you had serious spikes after those two events (and I linked to your descriptions in that message I posted several days ago that you claimed not to have read). Surely you will agree that your spikes would have been much worse had you not been wearing protection those two times, right?! If that is the case, then what is the problem?

You know, Good for You! With this attitude, you can take on any opponent and (in your mind) always be the Big Winner. How cool is that?

 

[Lane]

Newbies should not be reading your posts and I've given up counting the PMs where they directly quote you for causing them extreme anxiety. When you implant this seed in a vulnerable persons mind it can lead to severe mental health problems

Please don't take this personally Ed, but your assertions that Bill is somehow responsible for people becoming anxious, and/or leaving them with "severe mental health problems", quite frankly, borders on the absurd. I've been reading @Bill Bauer's cautionary posts since I began visiting this forum a year ago. Not only have I not experienced anxiety or mental health problems as a result, but I've greatly appreciated getting much better understandings and insights into what I was dealing with.

Prior to reading his posts, I read the introductory message that is sent to all new members signing up. I don't recall anything in there about taking measures to protect our ears in those first critical weeks/months (and longer) after tinnitus onset (huge omission). That message was quite optimistic about how tinnitus almost always improves over time. So I continued to do "normal" things like using a hair dryer, vacuuming, and mowing the lawn (though I did use ear plugs with that). And guess what? I kept getting spikes. At the time, I thought that was kind of "par for the course", and not contingent on any particular noise exposure.

It wasn't until I started reading Bill's (and others') posts that I realized I needed to pay attention to what's causing spikes, and what my ears were telling me. If a shower hurts my ears, then omit it or keep it short. If I pee in the toilet and my reactive tinnitus takes off, then sit down and pee like a girl. -- When I started to keep preventable spikes from happening, I noticed my overall tinnitus began to stabilize. It all seems extremely basic! But I didn't know that at the time I was a "newbie". I have a continuing gratitude toward Bill and all the others who educated me on what I was dealing with.

Regarding those vulnerable people you refer to who end up with "severe mental problems", I can only say they likely developed these problems as a result of how they process information, not the information itself, or who they got it from. I read a lot of the same posts, but improved things for myself, instead of falling into some kind of mental abyss. -- Information to me is key. I look at everything I read from every possible angle, try to synthesize what relates to me (or not), and then using my best judgment, begin to experiment and move forward. I then frequently cycle through these same steps over time, trying to make sure I'm on the right path, and making adjustments accordingly. -- NEVER would I assign responsibility to someone else for my own decision making processes.

As I alluded to in an earlier post, I appreciate and respect your viewpoints on the importance of not overprotecting. And I agree with you that it should be avoided because of the problems it can bring. But it's also important to be aware of the damage that underprotection can inflict at just about any given time, and to take appropriate measures to protect ourselves. I believe that until we find that delicate balance between over- and under-protection, one should err on the side of overprotection, because the results of not doing so can be catastrophic and permanent.

 

[Jack Straw]

Please don't take this personally Ed, but your assertions that Bill is somehow responsible for people becoming anxious, and/or leaving them with "severe mental health problems", quite frankly, borders on the absurd. I've been reading @Bill Bauer's cautionary posts since I began visiting this forum a year ago. Not only have I not experienced anxiety or mental health problems as a result, but I've greatly appreciated getting much better understandings and insights into what I was dealing with.

Prior to reading his posts, I read the introductory message that is sent to all new members signing up. I don't recall anything in there about taking measures to protect our ears in those first critical weeks/months (and longer) after tinnitus onset (huge omission). That message was quite optimistic about how tinnitus almost always improves over time. So I continued to do "normal" things like using a hair dryer, vacuuming, and mowing the lawn (though I did use ear plugs with that). And guess what? I kept getting spikes. At the time, I thought that was kind of "par for the course", and not contingent on any particular noise exposure.

It wasn't until I started reading Bill's (and others') posts that I realized I needed to pay attention to what's causing spikes, and what my ears were telling me. If a shower hurts my ears, then omit it or keep it short. If I pee in the toilet and my reactive tinnitus takes off, then sit down and pee like a girl. -- When I started to keep preventable spikes from happening, I noticed my overall tinnitus began to stabilize. It all seems extremely basic! But I didn't know that at the time I was a "newbie". I have a continuing gratitude toward Bill and all the others who educated me on what I was dealing with.

Regarding those vulnerable people you refer to who end up with "severe mental problems", I can only say they likely developed these problems as a result of how they process information, not the information itself, or who they got it from. I read a lot of the same posts, but improved things for myself, instead of falling into some kind of mental abyss. -- Information to me is key. I look at everything I read from every possible angle, try to synthesize what relates to me (or not), and then using my best judgment, begin to experiment and move forward. I then frequently cycle through these same steps over time, trying to make sure I'm on the right path, and making adjustments accordingly. -- NEVER would I assign responsibility to someone else for my own decision making processes.

As I alluded to in an earlier post, I appreciate and respect your viewpoints on the importance of not overprotecting. And I agree with you that it should be avoided because of the problems it can bring. But it's also important to be aware of the damage that underprotection can inflict at just about any given time, and to take appropriate measures to protect ourselves. I believe that until we find that delicate balance between over- and under-protection, one should err on the side of overprotection, because the results of not doing so can be catastrophic and permanent.

This may have worked for you, but blanket statements about tinnitus can be dangerous because everyone's tinnitus is different. What works or doesn't work for you, may not be the same for someone else.

Unfortunately, everyone else has to find their own boundaries.

Anecdotal evidence can not be used as fact.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

To borrow a few sensible words from another "This ____ thing is such a variable and subjective condition that one wonders if any advice can be worth giving or taking on board."

I agree from another that protection is needed and when looking at a sound decibel chart and seeing items where they turn from write to pink.

Just too many variables as to what may effect one person's safety. For those with jaw and neck tinnitus, heavy headphones can compress arteries, sensory nerves and place too much pressure on muscles and structures. This needs to be always included in a discussion on protection as I have heard that some have became soul of life victims by using heavy headphones with structural tinnitus.

 

[Bill Bauer]

This may have worked for you, but blanket statements about tinnitus can be dangerous because everyone's tinnitus is different.

Have you read his post?!!? Does

I look at everything I read from every possible angle, try to synthesize what relates to me (or not), and then using my best judgment, begin to experiment and move forward. I then frequently cycle through these same steps over time, trying to make sure I'm on the right path, and making adjustments accordingly.

sound like a blanket statement to you!?

So I continued to do "normal" things like using a hair dryer, vacuuming, and mowing the lawn (though I did use ear plugs with that).

Same here. For the first month, it hasn't occurred to me to protect against any of the sounds that I had always been around. I read the posts here and had experimented with protecting my ears. I was very happy with the results. I experienced a major setback when one time I failed to protect my ears as a result of a freak accident (that "loud phone" incident).

Not only have I not experienced anxiety or mental health problems as a result, but I've greatly appreciated getting much better understandings and insights into what I was dealing with.

Thank you for your kind words.

then using my best judgment, begin to experiment and move forward.

That's what it boils down to! Be aware of the possibility that those moderate noises are not good for you at this stage, and then experiment to see what works and what doesn't.

As I alluded to in an earlier post, I appreciate and respect your viewpoints on the importance of not overprotecting.

Early after the onset of my T, I wanted to wear earplugs 24/7 as a way to speed up habituation. I thought that if I hear loud T for a long time, I will be able to ignore T that would sound quieter once I take out my earplugs. I ended up not doing that, but I would have benefited from a post informing me that once really ought to minimize the time earplugs are worn. So I agree that Ed's posts can be helpful to many people.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Anecdotal evidence can not be used as fact.

It can provide information about what Might be dangerous.

 

[Jiri]

ROFL @Jiri just liked Jack's post, proving that he reads this thread but can't really think of anything to say regarding

Don't worry. I will get back to you with a reply once I manage to sort out something important. Not everybody has as much time as you do to spend on a forum. Besides, your walls of text are getting tiresome to read.

No idea why you feel that when you don't get a response soon after you post something the concerned must be at a loss for words, conceding, debunked or whatever.

I quickly skimmed through your essays on my phone. That's all I managed to do. Sorry.

I can sense your frustration, though. It seems to me you're just posting here now like crazy to bring more chaos into things so the important posts become difficult to spot.

 

[Ed209]

I can play this game too. Back when you gave yourself a permanent spike by staying in that loud MRI machine, I had people write to me that you became the victim of your own brainwashing. I am not making this up, and of course I do agree with them. If you were to be on the lookout for the sounds that can harm your ears, your T would be quieter now. It is surprising that you haven't learned from your own mistake.

This is not a game, Bill. I have many health issues, so going into the MRI was not a mistake, and you will clearly see that I had a thread a week before where I was trying to track down muffs that didn't contain any metal. The new tone was not permanent, but I still wonder how much my own fears may have played into it, but I'll never know. What I can say is that twenty minutes in an MRI - as loud as the one I had - is potentially dangerous and I've never disputed that fact (especially if under-protected like I was). However, that's never been in doubt and has nothing to do with overprotecting as I knew it would be loud.

I'm not surprised people wrote to you at all, as there are many snakes on this forum that contribute nothing. Adding 7,000 posts of mainly paranoia and irrational fear serves no purpose on a support forum. I don't know anyone who plans their vacations based around the risk of dying, except for you. However, that's just who you are, and I can't knock that because people are entitled to live how they want; but in my opinion, your posts have caused people a lot of unnecessary mental anguish.

And thanks for bringing up my MRI, again, as I may be needing another one imminently. I've been ejaculating blood and the ultrasound I had on Monday was inconclusive. My GP gave me an emergency referral so the next step is likely a cystoscopy and/or another MRI. Will I take it? Fuck yea I will. The fear show that dominates this forum washes right over me and rational thought takes centre stage. You do not overcome tinnitus by protecting around the clock.

 

[Ed209]

You have Chutzpah, I will give you that. To say that I was the one who lost the argument, right after you reveal your inability to say anything regarding

Why are you mocking Jiri? The guy is struggling immensely and you think this is game of who can win a petty internet argument? Are you for real, Bill. Pull your head out of the fucking clouds for five minutes. That whole post is a disgrace.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Why are you mocking Jiri?

I am not.

The guy is struggling immensely and you think this is game of who can win a petty internet argument?

It is important to inform the new sufferers. If you are against that, I will argue with you.

That whole post is a disgrace.

According to you. By the way, your entire post deals in emotions. You haven't clarified what is wrong (if anything) with my reasoning.

I have many health issues, so going into the MRI was not a mistake

You said that that particular machine was louder than an MRI should be. You could have signalled for that test to stop, and then you could have gone to a hospital with a quieter machine.

The new tone was not permanent

How many months has it lasted?

What I can say is that twenty minutes in an MRI - as loud as the one I had - is potentially dangerous and I've never disputed that fact (especially if under-protected like I was).

Your attitude caused you to stay there and take the noise.

Sorry, I have to leave now. I will finish answering your post a little later.

 

[TLion]

And thanks for bringing up my MRI, again, as I may be needing another one imminently. I've been ejaculating blood and the ultrasound I had on Monday was inconclusive. My GP gave me an emergency referral so the next step is likely a cystoscopy and/or another MRI. Will I take it? Fuck yea I will. The fear show that dominates this forum washes right over me and rational thought takes centre stage. You do not overcome tinnitus by protecting around the clock.

I'm very sorry Ed! I wish you all the best! You are an inspiration! And I totally agree with your statements.

 

[Ed209]

I am not.

You know, Good for You! With this attitude, you can take on any opponent and (in your mind) always be the Big Winner. How cool is that?

That's just one part of your post that is taking the piss.

It is important to inform the new sufferers. If you are against that, I will argue with you.

You bring a very unbalanced view that can, and has, degraded the mental health of many vulnerable members. You look for risk in absolutely everything you do and even cancelled a trip to Scotland because the crime stats convinced you you'd get attacked. You most likely evaluate every activity before participating and probably have a database somewhere of all the things you permit yourself to do. You are a victim of your own paranoia and you project this on here - a support forum - 24/7.

It's the most unhealthy and obsessive trait I've ever seen in anyone and goes way beyond any kind of rationality. You might be ok living in isolation and without a partner, but others can't live that way and you don't seem to realise this. You once described sex as "masturbating with another person's body", and you've said far stranger things that are just totally bizarre.

I see no positives in anything you say or do and you have never helped in any kind of objective way, either. So, in my opinion, the net gain of your contribution here is a minus number.

 

[Bill Bauer]

That's just one part of your post that is taking the piss.

I wasn't mocking him - I was pointing out how bizarre it is for him to declare winning the argument at a time when he can't even answer an important question that I posed to him.

I am sorry you have had to deal with medical problems on top of tinnitus, Ed. I just looked up
https://www.webmd.com/men/guide/blood-in-semen-hematospermia-causes-symptoms-tests-treatments#1-2
and it appears that there are many possible causes that seem to be relatively benign. I sincerely hope this will end up being a minor issue for you.

You bring a very unbalanced view that can

Your view is unbalanced. I am just informing the people that some activities are dangerous, and asking them to listen to their own bodies and to gradually experiment to find what is and what is not ok for them to do.

You look for risk in absolutely everything you do and even cancelled a trip to Scotland because the crime stats convinced you you'd get attacked.

I had walked away from my nonrefundable tickets to Taiwan, because I was going to go on a road trip and I found out that the road fatality rate was unacceptably high there. [The ticket was from Hong Kong to Taiwan, so it wasn't Too expensive.] I have been looking into crime stats in the United Kingdom to determine whether it is a good idea for me to visit.

You most likely evaluate every activity before participating

You talk about it like it's a bad thing.

others can't live that way and you don't seem to realise this

I do realize this - this is the reason why I talked about myself. I wanted the others to have all of the information, so that they could make choices that correspond to their preferences and circumstances.

You once described sex as "masturbating with another person's body"

In what way is sex not jacking off with another person's body? I came up with that one myself, and am proud of it.

in my opinion, the net gain of your contribution here is a minus number.

I've been having this debate with you for over a year now, and I have always tried to avoid "making it personal". The only exception was today when I mentioned your own experience. [By the way - how long did it take for the tone to go away?] You Always resort to personal attacks. Sad.

 

[Sash]

@Bill Bauer

I know you mean well and do care for the welfare of your fellow tinnitus sufferers. I have read your comments with interest. There seems to be two main camps one is advocating isolate yourself from all sounds and never go out where there is any hint of a loud sound, the other camp is saying go out but just protect yourself. Isn't the later more sensible ?

Trying to get the right balance is just so so difficult. Not many can keep that discipline and how can one enjoy life trying constantly trying to gauge the possibilities of some sound going off. Life is already busy and trying tio remember regarding earplugs etc is hard enough.

I have tried but failed to keep a discipline My tinnitus is getting worse (and may get worse still) and really loud now but I think I know what is caused my two major spikes. It was loud music but the reason for the Spike I didn't protect my ears.

I am surprised there hasn't been much research what causes Spikes etc. Until then I will restrict myself where necessary and pick very carefully the events I go to. Yes I may regret it but I will regret more the events I had missed. Anyway, spikes are so unpredictable so may have got a permanent spike anyway.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I will get back to you with a reply once I manage to sort out something important. Not everybody has as much time as you do to spend on a forum. Besides, your walls of text are getting tiresome to read.

I apologize for not realizing just How "too cool for school" you are.
(The song begins at around 30 second mark.)

 

[Bill Bauer]

the other camp is saying go out but just protect yourself. Isn't the later more sensible ?

It would be more sensible if the protection were to always work. Unfortunately, protection sometimes provides a false sense of security. See the quotes in the first post in the thread below
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/learn-from-others-mistakes.29437/

Anyway, spikes are so unpredictable so may have got a permanent spike anyway.

First of all, as you heal, you might be able to handle louder sounds, although it still makes sense to stay away from live music, power tools, etc. Second of all, it is all about the probability of getting a permanent spike. I believe that when invest effort into protecting your ears, you end up reducing this probability.

 

[RichL]

So your T got permanently worse after you didn't protect your ears one time, and now you are saying that it is not a good idea to protect one's ears?

No, after stupidly having micro suction when I had spent the last 25 odd years relying on ear plugs for everything.

You must have had a reason to protect all of those years - you got a spike whenever you would not protect, right? Otherwise it is difficult to imagine someone protecting for that many years, with no feedback telling one that protection is a good idea. If you have had that feedback, then why do you think that listening to your body for all of those years has been a mistake?

Obviously I should have given a background of the last 29 years of T.
Before you jump to more assumptions I will say protecting ones hearing from loud noise is a must especially for T sufferers.
I listened to my anxiety and panic all those years, Id hardly say I was listening to any voice of reason, my own or anyone else for that matter.

I got T in 1990 from a very loud tinny stereo in a small room, it was over the course of three Saturday nights and ended each night with the very loud fleeting type Tinntus that cleared after about half an hour, on the third Saturday night, it cleared again and I didn't think anything about it till bed time Sunday night and that's when I noticed that the sound of silence was louder than normal in fact it was an actual noise that I knew wasn't right and that is when the panic set in, I also got a little sensitive to louder sounds.
I did all the norms, go to an ENT, got my hearing checked to be told there's nothing that can be done you'll just have to live with it, no information no nothing, I was in a panic, there was no internet, no social media, I was alone and seemingly nobody could offer me anything as far as information about what I could do, I loved my silence, it was one of my few joys in life and now it was gone!
So, I proceeded to try and learn to live with it, I have always suffered from anxiety, so this just compounded it,, but I was only 21, I had no job, no qualifications and I was just having fun in my life without any responsibility, the plan was to have fun and then start seriously thinking about shit when I was maybe 22 or 23, now I had to get serious.

I started with cotton wool full time but that just wasn't protecting against louder noises, I was in training to drive trucks , working in the freight yards and some of the trucks were quite noisy and I would get home with my Tinnitus raging, I was so paranoid that my T would get worse, it consumed me, so I thought maybe if I tried foam ear plugs I wouldn't be so paranoid about wondering whether any noise had hurt my hearing so to speak and that was the start, my T was not that loud because when I inserted these foam earplugs I felt safe, I could do things that people with normal hearing could do, so I left them in.......24/7, it was fine for the next 10 years, started working, met my future wife, things were pretty good, my hearing and T stayed at the same level.
After 10 odd years, my hearing had become very acute and sensitive, I couldn't handle life anywhere without earplugs, I did try several times to ween my way off them, but the paranoia got too much, about all I could manage was to finally be able to sleep without them, so would only wear them during the day.

That worked for another 15 odd years with one positive, with the help of my wife, I was able to wear earplugs for work and take them out when I got home and was able to handle the household noise without earplugs, about 6 years ago I started cutting my ear plugs in half for work and was desensitizing my ears quite well for another 2 years until for some reason my T started playing up and getting louder for unknown reasons, I was starting to stress and wondered whether it may have been a build up of wax, I went to a hearing house that offered micro suction which unfortunately I didn't realize what that involved, I still had to wear earplugs whenever I went out, my hearing was still very sensitive to louder suburban and city noise, well coupled with my paranoia and anxiety, I only let her turn that machine on twice in my right ear and once in my left ear, instantly my T changed to a high pitched old TV sound and intensified, it never went down and I spiraled into depression, chronic Hypocauses and went backwards to being in a worse state than 29 years ago and I have struggled off and on since for the last 4 years and to top it all off, three weeks ago I was opening a small jar of some bloody thing or another and because I had no ear plugs in, I opened it slowly and it made quite a loud pop, that sent my T into overdrive and it still hasn't calmed.

I'm in a hell of a state now, I have to wear full ear plugs at work and the T is loud enough to easily hear over everything during the day even my truck at 90kph, I get a little relief when I'm home and I can take my plugs out but it is still fairly intrusive.

If I had been given help and counseling when I first got T, I maybe could have understood it more and I definitely would have been more careful with my ear plug use, ear plugs are fine for noisy places but I should have never overused them, my ear canals are enlarged now because of the constant ear plug use and my T is so loud, unfortunately it could end up being a fatal mistake for me especially if I cant fight my way out of this depression.

Rich