Pulsatile Tinnitus — Constant Whooshing Sound — Two CT Scans Later Doctors Are Not Any Wiser

Anjaty91

Member
Author
Feb 20, 2019
10
Tinnitus Since
12/2018
Cause of Tinnitus
Unknown
Hello everyone or to anyone who reads this. I have been a complete panic mess. I have been dealing with pulsatile tinnitus since December and it honestly has altered my whole life. I have been dealing with a constant whooshing sound that is in tune with my heartbeat. Whenever my heart rate increases, my heart rate gets louder.

I have had two CT scans of my head and neck done with and without contrast and an MRI with and without contrast. All test came back negative.

I am completely scared because this noise in my ear has caused me to think I have so many health issues. I get such bad anxiety to the point I can't go to work, out with my friends, or have a nice evening out with my significant other. I have been to the ER several times because I have all these different anxiety symptoms. I've also seen an ENT and audiologist.

Has anyone gone through this!? Please, I need advice with coping or any type of help or feedback to help me find a cause to this.
 
Hello everyone or to anyone who reads this. I have been a complete panic mess. I have been dealing with pulsatile tinnitus since December and it honestly has altered my whole life. I have been dealing with a constant whooshing sound that is in tune with my heartbeat. Whenever my heart rate increases, my heart rate gets louder.

I have had two CT scans of my head and neck done with and without contrast and an MRI with and without contrast. All test came back negative.

I am completely scared because this noise in my ear has caused me to think I have so many health issues. I get such bad anxiety to the point I can't go to work, out with my friends, or have a nice evening out with my significant other. I have been to the ER several times because I have all these different anxiety symptoms. I've also seen an ENT and audiologist.

Has anyone gone through this!? Please, I need advice with coping or any type of help or feedback to help me find a cause to this.
Wow... I am so sorry.
Stress... you need to read through the threads on pulsatile tinnitus, I know nothing about it. Read up and you'll get some ideas. I am sorry I can't offer you anything concrete, only my heartfelt sympathy and wish for you to be better.

Sincerely, Daniel

P.S. How are you doing today?
 
Sorry to hear you're having a rough time!

I'd definitely recommend seeing a therapist for your anxiety, even just to get some coping methods on how to calm yourself down. It helped me significantly when my anxiety was at its worst.

Not had Pulsatile Tinnitus myself but maybe try reading some articles like this: https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/is-it-worrisome-to-hear-a-pulse-in-my-ear

Might give you an idea of things to get checked or some starting grounds for further research :) If you ever need to talk to people or just vent, then just hop on here and join in the chat box!
 
Hi there :) I am in the exact same position that you are in. Bad anxiety, thinking a whole host of things are wrong with me, and manifesting symptoms from worrying (nausea, fatigue and loss of appetite. At least I think these are related to the anxiety). I offer you my empathy. Keep me posted on what you find out. I have not yet had additional testing done, as it is super expensive in the US.
 
Has anyone gone through this!? Please, I need advice with coping or any type of help or feedback to help me find a cause to this.[/QUOTE]

Are you still having this whooshing sound ?
 
? Please, I need advice with coping or any type of help or feedback to help me find a cause to this.
Blocked sinuses with possible inflammation that associates with ETD can cause whooshing sounds. Can't really help beyond that because no other information is provided. Have you seen an ENT?
 
Haven't been on the forum for years, but was contacted by a member about PT.

So. I've had intermittent PT plus permanent 'hissing' tinnitus since Oct 2014 having contracted a pretty minor upper respiratory infection. Long story short....permanent Eustachian tube dysfunction such that I have T-tubes, some deafness and the tinnitus.

As Greg Sacramento says, inflammation from whatever cause seems to be the root cause for many of us to get PT. Infection, allergies, high environmental temp. all seem to worsen PT.

What I'm saying may not seem credible now, but you WILL habituate to it. I'm at peace with my personal cacophony....doesn't affect my enjoyment of anything, ability to sleep, concentrate, or anything else. It does, however, take time. At the outset I became severely depressed and had panic attacks which I managed to keep contained for fear of people questioning my sanity, but left me with racing pulse/tremor/sweating/nausea etc. Time is a great healer.

For all of you suffering.....it will improve....but the time taken varies a lot from person to person. Try to get on with your life as much as you can....
 
Blocked sinuses with possible inflammation that associates with ETD can cause whooshing sounds. Can't really help beyond that because no other information is provided. Have you seen an ENT?

Thanks. Yes I have seen an ENT. Had grommet inserted. Have had MRI of head and neck. All clear. ENT has said it's a case of ETD and has prescribed nasal steriod and nasal spray. Fingers crossed this will work.
 
Most reasons for pulsatile tinnitus are vascular in nature, and most are benign. But some are not. An ENT or audiologist can't help you with this. When I had experienced this, and I went to them, they said "it's just your tinnitus". It wasn't, I had a dural arteriovenous fistula. Now, don't start getting all worried. Remember what I just said, that most times the causes are benign.

I would recommend you consult with a neuro-interventional radiologist and have an examination and MRA performed. MRI and CT will not show these lesions. I have had two of these fistulas, and I had them both treated and cured. My pulsatile tinnitus was gone immediately after surgery. More importantly, the fistula was cured. These surgeries are also minimally invasive. Let me know if you have any questions.
 
@tiniturtle
Most reasons for pulsatile tinnitus are vascular in nature, and most are benign.
True. Dural arteriovenous fistula usually develops later in life - at 60 years of age, and one's eyes are usually red. Cause can be - head injury, heart, infection, vein or artery blockage and intracranial hypertension. Feeling the location of BRUT - blood flow can be difficult. Some get an increased BRUT while sleeping on back, but usually it's heard all the time.

Did you get a hum as well and have other neck problems or thyroid problems?
 
@tiniturtle

True. Dural arteriovenous fistula usually develops later in life - at 60 years of age, and one's eyes are usually red. Cause can be - head injury, heart, infection, vein or artery blockage and intracranial hypertension. Feeling the location of BRUT - blood flow can be difficult. Some get an increased BRUT while sleeping on back, but usually it's heard all the time.

Did you get a hum as well and have other neck problems or thyroid problems?

Are you asking me? I'm young and my DAVF occurred after a mild head injury. Eye redness almost never happens unless the fistula occurs behind the eye, which is not a common location. Most commonly it's behind the ear, which is why pulsatile tinnitus is a classic symptom. "Bruit" is the proper term.

I did get a hum, but no thyroid or neck problems. I couldn't tell if you were asking me or the OP.
 
Hey everyone , so quick update ....
I still have pulsatile tinnitus which has been causing me to have some weird health issues which I believe is from the PT. I get intense pressure feeling in my head when I bend down, my heart rate goes up if I get up too fast or it beats irregular. I have been to a cardiologist and have had an holter monitor place which came back normal, I've had a cardia stress test which was normal and a echocardiogram which was normal . Yesterday I had an ultrasound sound of my carotid arteries and I had an MRA . Hopefully i will be able to find out what is going on .
 
Hi @Anjaty91 , I hope you are doing well! This is actually my first post, I am just inspired by your similar situation as mine. I myself am going through the exact same thing you are going through currently. Briefly about my own condition – I've had Pulsatile Tinnitus since March 2019, went through several doctors including my GP, 2 ENTs, physical therapy, and a few others till I was able to get recommended to the right team of doctors. I as well deal with intense pressure when I bend over, move quickly, or even just getting out of bed. The pressure rebounds in intensity and the pulsing gets extremely loud and causes me to get disoriented. I also deal with that heart rate going up fast and beats quickly like you described. Currently I am working with a team of Neuroradiologists that specialize in Pulsatile Tinnitus to help diagnose my condition.

What I learned from dealing with different doctors – and better yet, reading what people have gone through on here is that most doctors dismiss the condition, don't understand how to diagnose it, or don't know how to read there own MRI's/MRA's. After visiting my second ENT (who actually was very knowledgeable) he had me get a CTA with/without contrast done. After the radiologist read it, it came back negative. Working with my current neuroradiologists, they were able to use it (along with an MRA) to help diagnose that I have a right sigmoid sinus diverticulum. I'm still in the process of awaiting to have an angiogram and lumbar puncture.

My best advice for you – since you've had so many different tests done without any sort conclusion (tired of spending $$$) is to clearly find a Neuroradiologist. I know it sounds repetitive to continuously find a new doctor – but you need to find a doctor that can refer you to a "neuroradiologist". This may mean going to see another ENT (someone with a background in ear conditions or neurology) to get a referral OR seeing a neurologist that can refer you to a good neuroradiologist. You may even want to ask the doctors you are working with now to see if they know or can refer you to a neuroradiologist.

A lot of the time's the best neuroradiologists work at University hospitals. Neuroradiologist are truly the only doctor's that can diagnose what's going on and are the best at reading MRI's. Remember the condition itself isn't the pulsatile tinnitus – it's what's causing it. You should not just dismiss it or give up this fight in figuring it out, there are so many different causes that can lead to it. (University hospitals as well are normally covered by Blue Cross if you have that.)

What you should do: You need to figure out all the symptoms you are experiencing and write them down.

Here are some questions that you should ask yourself:

- What exacerbates the pulsatile level – what causes the noise to go up

- What improves it – what causes the noise to go down or disappear

- What happens if you bend your neck in different ways, such as if you turn your neck to the side or bend it forward/backwards? Does the noise level go up or down? If it does go up when you turn your head sideways, try turning it (causing the noise to go up) then moving your head in a downward motion – does it cause it to go down? If so this could be because your closing your jugular vein.

- Are there any areas on your head, neck, or face that change the noise level? Such as for myself, I can press on the entire top left side of my head and it causes the noise to go up, however pressing above my right ear causes it to disappear. I also can push on my neck to make the noise level go away. Try pressing directly below your ear on your neck area firmly to see if it turns the sound off. This could definitely mean it's something in the vein.

- If you clinch your jaw, does it make the sound go up or down?

- If you hold your breath, does it cause the sound to go away? (Valsalva maneuver)

- If you open your jaw, or lunge your lower jaw forward, does it cause the sound to go up or down?

- How does exercising affect it?

- How does stress, or sleep/lack of sleep affect it?

- Do you have constant headaches?

- Has your eyesight become blurrier, darkened, narrowed, or do you see stars/spots/bright flashes? Have you had an influx of eye floaters? A lot of this could of course mean IIH (idiopathic intracranial hypertension)

- When it comes to the exasperation of pressure in your head – what movements cause it to happen? Such as bending forward (like you said) – but how about moving quickly, getting up from a seated or lying position. Does it cause any disorientation or dizziness?

- Is it worse while lying down or standing up?

- Do you get dizzy, confusion, memory issues?

- Have you tried to listen to it on a stethoscope or record it? I actually went and bought one from CVS to make sure the pulsating was to my heartbeat. I then tried it on areas of my front and back of my neck/head to see if I could hear it – to which I could. My ENT could not hear it, but my Neuroradiologist could.

- What exactly does it sound like? Is it high pitched? If it's high pitched, it may lean closer to an arterial cause.

- What other issues did you have around the time you got it? Back issues? Neck issues? Stress?

Just because you are hearing it on the right or left side, does not technically mean the issue is on the that side, it just may be the more dominate venous system. And of course if the noise goes away, that may mean its getting worse.

Tests: There are several tests that you can have, but most definitely a CTA of the temporal bone with contrast (which it sounds like you did) and an MRA of the brain with/without contrast. These should realistically be done on a T3 Tesla machine as opposed to a T1.5 or a T2 for a much clearer image. A lot of times poor MRI tests can lead to issues going undiagnosed. My T3 Test cost without insurance over 10k$ but with insurance it was only around 800$.

There are so many different things it could be, that is why you need to get checked out by the right doctor – someone who is willing to work with you. It could be a diverticulum, venous stenosis, arterial fistula, dehiscence of the sigmoid plate, the list goes on and these can be EASILY missed by someone who doesn't know what to look for.

Can we please just have a doctor that stops asserting its eustachian tube dysfunction!!

A lot of doctors consider what we are experiencing as "rare" and dismiss it or state that we need to cope with it or learn to live with it. Just because it is "rare" doesn't mean it can't happen to any of us, and we that suffer from this deserve an explanation – one that answers our questions. I have also seen doctors dismiss things because of age, saying your too young to have that – well I'm 34 and dealing with this so it can happen to anyone. I really do hope you and others will benefit from this advice and seek the right help. Don't give up your fight, you'll figure this out. I wish you luck! If I can get mine solved, I will most definitely write it in the forum. Let me know if you have any other questions – I of course am not a doctor but I can try to push you in the right direction.
 
There's nothing wrong with your heart. You should try to get the anxiety under control. so that you can separate the symptoms of that vs. what's happening physically. The actual sound of PT isn't hurting you, but having dealt with this multiple times, I understand. Let us know what your MRA turns up. We've talked in the past, and even if your MRA doesn't show anything, you should consult an interventional radiologist. I've had 4 dural arteriovenous fistula, and only one of them showed up on MRA/MRI. They had to be confirmed with cerebral angiogram.
 
@FocusRS

If you go to a good interventional radiologist, all they need is a single angiogram to diagnose any cerebrovascular issue. It seems like you are doing a lot of unnecessary tests, including a lumbar puncture. The angiogram is not a defined scan, it's a dynamic procedure that involves the skill and knowledge of the doctor to perform a good one. Who you are going to may be inexperienced. There is also some risk involved in an angiogram also since it's a surgical procedure, though minimally invasive.
 
@tiniturtle The lumbar puncture is to test the cerebral spinal fluid pressure for IIH. And yeah, luckily the head doctor of this team I'm working with will be performing the angiogram rather then a tech who isn't as experienced.
 
@FocusRS Hello, thank you for you so much . My MRI came back normal, and my ultasound if my carotid came back normal. My MRA shows I have a deviated artery to the left in my head . My doctors is referring me to a neurologist . Where I live there is neuroradiologist but I would have to call them to see if my insurance is accepted there . Lately I only hear a whoosh when I turn my head a certain way yet now I'm hearing a thump in my ear. I am dizzy, I feel I have pressure in my head , and pain in different areas of my head .
 
Hi
Sorry to hear what you are going through. Your symptoms sound very similar to what I was experiencing. Mine lasted for around 11 month before clearing up.

do you exercise? Mine went away and that was the only thing I was doing different. After a month of going to the gym everything cleared up.

No one can say if it was linked but I would try it if you don't already.

Try to stay calm you will be fine
 
Hey Andy , I was going going to the gym, but that's cancelled due to this virus . Did all your scans come back normal before your PT went away
 
@FocusRS Hello, thank you for you so much . My MRI came back normal, and my ultasound if my carotid came back normal. My MRA shows I have a deviated artery to the left in my head . My doctors is referring me to a neurologist . Where I live there is neuroradiologist but I would have to call them to see if my insurance is accepted there . Lately I only hear a whoosh when I turn my head a certain way yet now I'm hearing a thump in my ear. I am dizzy, I feel I have pressure in my head , and pain in different areas of my head .
If I were you I would stop going to doctors completely. If you reverse the process and ask yourself "what if I had a tumor", "what if I had a vestibular schwannoma" etc etc and read articles on these conditions, you will find out that there are not many options in terms of treatment, that surgeries are invasive and imply major risks, and basically these surgeries are not worth pursuing unless your life is really at risk, because surgery has side effects.

After many years with hearing issues, including severe hyperacusis, tinnitus and now some hearing loss I started rationalising all this and trying not to go to doctors so often, let alone taking tests that are noisy. Read medical articles if you want to get informed and you will see there are very few answers and no treatment for hyperacusis or tinnitus, so it is not worth it to do a lot of tests or visit so many doctors. Even if they labelled whatever is wrong, they won't be able to fix it in 99% of cases.
 
If I were you I would stop going to doctors completely. If you reverse the process and ask yourself "what if I had a tumor", "what if I had a vestibular schwannoma" etc etc and read articles on these conditions, you will find out that there are not many options in terms of treatment, that surgeries are invasive and imply major risks, and basically these surgeries are not worth pursuing unless your life is really at risk, because surgery has side effects.

After many years with hearing issues, including severe hyperacusis, tinnitus and now some hearing loss I started rationalising all this and trying not to go to doctors so often, let alone taking tests that are noisy. Read medical articles if you want to get informed and you will see there are very few answers and no treatment for hyperacusis or tinnitus, so it is not worth it to do a lot of tests or visit so many doctors. Even if they labelled whatever is wrong, they won't be able to fix it in 99% of cases.
This is just about the worst advice I've ever heard. This can cost someone their life. This entire post is filled with misinformation. I had relatively mild symptoms, and if I wasn't persistent in getting a diagnosis I would be dead or severely disabled right now from a massive hemorrhage. Also, the surgeries to correct these kinds of problems are minimally invasive, and the risks are somewhere in the range of 2%, depending on what is being treated. If it's something like a dural artervenous fistula, the risk of not having surgery is far greater than the risk of surgery. I have had 4 of these surgeries to date.

Now, if we're talking tinnitus or hyperacusis, yes, there seems to be little to no treatment options. As far as pulsatile tinnitus, this is completely different and not related to the other two in any way, and can indicate something dangerous underlying. It is always best to have it investigated and never ignore your symptoms. Most of the time it can be treated. My tinnitus probably won't ever go away, but my PT was cured.
 
This is just about the worst advice I've ever heard. This can cost someone their life. This entire post is filled with misinformation. I had relatively mild symptoms, and if I wasn't persistent in getting a diagnosis I would be dead or severely disabled right now from a massive hemorrhage. Also, the surgeries to correct these kinds of problems are minimally invasive, and the risks are somewhere in the range of 2%, depending on what is being treated. If it's something like a dural artervenous fistula, the risk of not having surgery is far greater than the risk of surgery. I have had 4 of these surgeries to date.

Now, if we're talking tinnitus or hyperacusis, yes, there seems to be little to no treatment options. As far as pulsatile tinnitus, this is completely different and not related to the other two in any way, and can indicate something dangerous underlying. It is always best to have it investigated and never ignore your symptoms. Most of the time it can be treated. My tinnitus probably won't ever go away, but my PT was cured.
Last week I read an article on surgery to remove vestibular schwannoma. It was an article authored by several ENTs who discussed the benefits, risks and possible outcomes of the surgery.

Well, it turned out that the surgery can have an impact on facial muscles (ability to open an eye or move facial muscles), on hearing, on vision etc

Basically the conclusions of the articles were not to go for surgery unless there is a big schwannoma or it is growing fast, and also depending on other medical conditions of the patient and considerations like age etc This was an honest article about surgery.

Now, talking specifically about hyperacusis and tinnitus, in some countries doctors are reluctant to go for comprehensive testing because they know that even if they find something, it is very unlikely that the outcome of a surgery is going to render the patient better than they are. So doctors look at an audiometric test, a tympanogram, maybe order a CAT scan, and after that tell the patient to check back the next year. If the tests are still unchanged, they assume there is nothing terribly wrong, and nothing more can be done.

I think that's a realistic approach to the problem, a sensible approach that, sadly, involves assuming that nothing can be done for hyperacusis or tinnitus and that following that path of extensive testing, and constant visits to the doctor, is not going to take the patient anywhere...
 
Last week I read an article on surgery to remove vestibular schwannoma. It was an article authored by several ENTs who discussed the benefits, risks and possible outcomes of the surgery.

Well, it turned out that the surgery can have an impact on facial muscles (ability to open an eye or move facial muscles), on hearing, on vision etc

Basically the conclusions of the articles were not to go for surgery unless there is a big schwannoma or it is growing fast, and also depending on other medical conditions of the patient and considerations like age etc This was an honest article about surgery.

Now, talking specifically about hyperacusis and tinnitus, in some countries doctors are reluctant to go for comprehensive testing because they know that even if they find something, it is very unlikely that the outcome of a surgery is going to render the patient better than they are. So doctors look at an audiometric test, a tympanogram, maybe order a CAT scan, and after that tell the patient to check back the next year. If the tests are still unchanged, they assume there is nothing terribly wrong, and nothing more can be done.

I think that's a realistic approach to the problem, a sensible approach that, sadly, involves assuming that nothing can be done for hyperacusis or tinnitus and that following that path of extensive testing, and constant visits to the doctor, is not going to take the patient anywhere...
This I agree with, but it's not related to pulsatile tinnitus, which this thread is. It's just entirely different.

In early February I had a bout of left sided, very loud tinnitus, with fullness and pressure, high frequency hearing loss, and diplacusis, my hearing was distorted. It went away in about 2 weeks without treatment and we never learned what the cause was. Thankfully, this resolved on its own.

I do agree that chasing the rabbit down a hole may be fruitless and harmful for those chasing a cure for something that doesn't even have a treatment at this point, meaning general tinnitus. But anyone with PT should get evaluated by a proper doctor as soon as possible, since it most commonly has a vascular cause, which may or may not be very dangerous. Again, in my case, it was a very dangerous situation, and I wasn't having profound symptoms.
 
dural artervenous fistula
So you had surgery for this? And where did it show? On an MRI?

If I understand well, did you have a surgery to correct "dural artervenous fistula" and you found out about this due to mild symptoms related to your hearing?
 
So you had surgery for this? And where did it show? On an MRI?

If I understand well, did you have a surgery to correct "dural artervenous fistula" and you found out about this due to mild symptoms related to your hearing?
Yes, I first experienced pulsatile tinnitus, then that went away, then headaches, then no symptoms. What I learned from the surgeon is that when the symptoms go away, that's the worst case scenario, because it becomes life threatening. That usually means the vein where you are hearing the blood flow has shut down, and it is forced backward into other veins of your brain. It's counter-intuitive.

Oh, it was detected with MRA, and confirmed with cerebral angiogram.
 
Yes, I first experienced pulsatile tinnitus, then that went away, then headaches, then no symptoms. What I learned from the surgeon is that when the symptoms go away, that's the worst case scenario, because it becomes life threatening. That usually means the vein where you are hearing the blood flow has shut down, and it is forced backward into other veins of your brain. It's counter-intuitive.

Oh, it was detected with MRA, and confirmed with cerebral angiogram.
So was it detected during a routine check?

Is the MRA as loud as a MRI? And the cerebral angiogram is loud?
 
So was it detected during a routine check?

Is the MRA as loud as a MRI? And the cerebral angiogram is loud?
No, I was persistent with my doctor about it being investigated. An MRA is the same as an MRI, except it focuses on imaging the blood vessels. Cerebral angiogram is a minimally invasive procedure where they use x-ray fluoroscopy and contrast material injected into the blood vessels to view the structure and blood flow in great detail.
 
@tiniturtle heyyy, thank you for explaining . Well i have to wait until June to see a neurologist under my insurance . I still have the whoosing in my left ear . I've been getting headaches behind my left eye since being quarantined.
 
No, I was persistent with my doctor about it being investigated. An MRA is the same as an MRI, except it focuses on imaging the blood vessels. Cerebral angiogram is a minimally invasive procedure where they use x-ray fluoroscopy and contrast material injected into the blood vessels to view the structure and blood flow in great detail.
I'm doing the angiogram in a week and already had a CT done. Is the angiogram significantly clearer?
 

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