Reversing Aging

[TeslaGuy]

Hi! I wanted to start a discussion about aging since it is a topic that will affect all of us. I find David Sinclair's research very fascinating. They are literally trying to stop and reverse aging. They have had success already with mice studies. Making a mouse a lot older and then reversing it. Of course it will take some time to replicate it in humans but Sinclair is very sure it will happen very soon.

They have also regenerated some tissues in the lab including mouse optic nerve damaged by aging conditions.

What do you think? How old can we possibly live with the help of science? 150 years? 500 years?

By the way, Sinclair looks very young for a 50 year old!

Here is a recent video about the topic:

 

[just1morething]

Sounds promising, but when will the reverse aging be available to humans? You would think some wealthy older people would be willing guinea pigs if the medical technology was available in the near future.

 

[TeslaGuy]

David Sinclair is saying that it will be available for everyone. Yeah, at first it would make sense that only the super rich can have it but thinking how much old age costs to society, I think that at some point we can all have it.

Next question is the over population question. Yes, in some countries there is a lot of over population but in some places the population is dropping.

 

[Jammer]

A 'Benjamin Button' solution in the works?

 

[tpj]

Negativity alert. I cannot think of anything worse than living a long life. But that's just me.

 

[Strawberryblonde]

Negativity alert. I cannot think of anything worse than living a long life. But that's just me.

Reminds me of The Green Mile where Tom Hanks' character outlives everyone.

 

[Sentinel]

Many people here want to shorten their lives, not extend them lmao. Although, maybe we can reverse back to a time where all of our hearing is perfect and tinnitus isn't something we know about yet.

 

[ZFire]

Count me out. Reversing aging will not bring about positive change. Last I checked, there are a lot more bad men in this world than good men. The rich, powerful, and corrupt will get their hands on this first. Imagine guys like Jeff Bezos and Vladimir Putin living forever. Death is a natural part of life and makes for a great equalizer.

There are more other pressing matters for humanity that needs solving. I would like to see extreme poverty, world hunger, and climate change solved first before we even start talking about immortality.

 

[TeslaGuy]

Many people here want to shorten their lives, not extend them lmao. Although, maybe we can reverse back to a time where all of our hearing is perfect and tinnitus isn't something we know about yet.

Yes, the point is not to prolong suffering but rather make the body young to end the suffering! There would be no point to live long but not be functional. I would give anything to warp my body back in time to heal ears and tinnitus Maybe I could become a lab rat but I am still under 30 and probably considered too "young" for trials...

 

[TeslaGuy]

Count me out. Reversing aging will not bring about positive change. Last I checked, there are a lot more bad men in this world than good men. The rich, powerful, and corrupt will get their hands on this first. Imagine guys like Jeff Bezos and Vladimir Putin living forever. Death is a natural part of life and makes for a great equalizer.

There are more other pressing matters for humanity that need solving. I would like to see extreme poverty, world hunger, and climate change solved first before we even start talking about immortality.

I get your point. It is like a double-edged sword. But I try to see the positive. Think about how scientists and innovators could spend their prolonged life span to keep going. But yeah, someone with bad intentions could do the same. This will be the future at some point to have the choice to have it or not. Eventually.

 

[just1morething]

Imagine guys like Jeff Bezos and Vladimir Putin living forever. Death is a natural part of life and makes for a great equalizer.

Someone told me death is "The Great Equalizer". Bezos and Putin are quite different, but I know what you mean. I hope us tinnitus sufferers get relief before our death.

Negativity alert. I cannot think of anything worse than living a long life. But that's just me.

Of course with tinnitus many of us feel that way. Without tinnitus or other bad afflictions, I think many of us would like to live a normal lifespan.

 

[tpj]

Of course with tinnitus many of us feel that way. Without tinnitus or other bad afflictions, I think many of us would like to live a normal lifespan.

You are probably right but it is very difficult for me to even imagine that.

Btw @just1morething, the other day here in Melbourne, we reached a top of 41 degrees Celsius. I believe that's about 105 degrees Fahrenheit. Now that's hot.

 

[Leila]

I've watched a couple of Professor Sinclair's earlier talks and interviews which seem to have disappeared (the ones where he talks about his dad and shows the kinds of effects his treatment regime had on him).

While aging is the focus of his research, he also says that with cell malfunctioning comes disease. So his research isn't only about how to stay young forever but how to also stay healthy forever because, if I understood him correctly, the aging process in itself is the result of such an malfunction and, therefore, just as any other disease creating malfunction should be reversible as soon as the right instead of the wrong information is transmitted to the malfunctioning cell.

I know I've probably over-simplified here, but it's been some time that I watched his interview, so I can't remember the exact terms he used to describe the process anymore - sorry! But his talks are worth watching and many of his suggestions aren't really hard to integrate in our everyday routines.

 

[TeslaGuy]

In my opinion human life is too short. Way too short. So much worry, stress, and pain.

I strongly believe that expanding health span and lifespan together would bring many good thins to our lives. You would have time to see everything you want. No worry of "wasting" time. You could change careers multiple times. Having all the time in the world to have kids whenever you feel ready for that. I am not saying that this would create any "utopias" of a perfect world. This would definitely not solve all the problems.

Modern medicine is lacking. We are kept alive with drugs and medicine but our health span is not going together with our lifespan. We are simply suffering more and more towards the end of the life. And I hate it. Why does it have to be like that?

"Death gives meaning to life", with this quote I disagree fully. You are free to disagree with me.

The idea of "normal" lifespan has changed during the course of our history as how long it is. What is now considered as "normal lifespan" will be not be "normal" in 10-20 years' time.

 

[TeslaGuy]

I've watched a couple of Professor Sinclair's earlier talks and interviews which seem to have disappeared (the ones where he talks about his dad and shows the kinds of effects his treatment regime had on him).

While aging is the focus of his research, he also says that with cell malfunctioning comes disease. So his research isn't only about how to stay young forever but how to also stay healthy forever because, if I understood him correctly, the aging process in itself is the result of such an malfunction and, therefore, just as any other disease creating malfunction should be reversible as soon as the right instead of the wrong information is transmitted to the malfunctioning cell.

I know I've probably over-simplified here, but it's been some time that I watched his interview, so I can't remember the exact terms he used to describe the process anymore - sorry! But his talks are worth watching and many of his suggestions aren't really hard to integrate in our everyday routines.

Reversing aging as a research field is getting bigger since many are now considering aging as a disease. More money is invested into this. There are billion dollar companies trying to solve these issues. There are many scientists who disagree and agree on various things that might cause the aging and how to reverse it.

David Sinclair thinks that the root cause of aging is the loss in epigenetic information. According to Sinclair, we get these "scratches" to our DNA, like on a CD, and thus we make errors when reading the DNA. So by getting rid of the scratches, we should reverse aging. It kinda makes sense but at this point hard to say if it is the root cause or just one aspect of aging.

Check Aubrey De Grey as well and the concept of "longevity escape velocity". He is starting one of the biggest mouse rejuvenation projects to reverse aging at the moment. They are giving mice multiple aging interventions to see how that will impact the longevity.

 

[Leila]

Check Aubrey De Grey as well and the concept of "longevity escape velocity".

Thanks for the tip, I'll be reading up on his research!

I know that Sinclair is only one of however many researchers looking into ways to stop aging. And once their research has progressed to the point that it can be turned into a reliable treatment that is free of side effects, it is going to revolutionise the world as we know it.

I think it was Harari who wrote in "A Brief History of Tomorrow" that if you're still alive in I think it was 20 or 30 years' time and are rich enough, death will be optional. And it's researchers like Sinclair who at this very moment are in the process of laying the foundation for Harari's vision of the future.

When I first came across one of Sinclair's talks, I decided to take his suggestion to heart and limit the time I ingested food to about six hours. I can't say anything about cell aging since I don't have the means to measure it, but as far as my energy levels and overall health is concerned, tinnitus et al. aside, I feel better than I have in years. So his idea that putting a little stress on your body will trigger something that will make you feel better in the end has been spot on in my case.

 

[ZFire]

Next question is the over population question. Yes, in some countries there is a lot of over population but in some places the population is dropping.

Yeah, population growth is a definitely another thing to consider. Earth is a closed system with a finite amount of resources. Natural resources would get depleted way more quicker in a world where reverse aging exists and there's a lack of population control at the same time.

Governments of the world are likely going to take active measures to curtail population growth. This obviously raises ethical and moral questions. Procreation will either be heavily regulated in many parts of the world or even strictly forbidden. I expect people to revolt against this.

Seems like there's a lack of practicality for reverse aging.

Someone told me death is "The Great Equalizer". Bezos and Putin are quite different, but I know what you mean. I hope us tinnitus sufferers get relief before our death.

No matter if you're rich, poor, accomplished, educated, smart, evil, or not, death will find everyone. We all die eventually. Natural way of the world. 'In death we are all equal'.

 

[just1morething]

No matter if you're rich, poor, accomplished, educated, smart, evil, or not, death will find everyone. We all die eventually. Natural way of the world. 'In death we are all equal

Maybe if I mingle with the wild turkey and deer in the woods, "The Grim Reaper" won't find me? You never mentioned dumb, maybe I'm too dumb to die?

 

[Lane]

David Sinclair thinks that the root cause of aging is the loss in epigenetic information. According to Sinclair, we get these "scratches" to our DNA, like on a CD, and thus we make errors when reading the DNA. So by getting rid of the scratches, we should reverse aging. It kinda makes sense but at this point hard to say if it is the root cause or just one aspect of aging.

Hi @TeslaGuy -- Interesting conversation. I've been researching optimal health and longevity for quite some time, and find it interesting that you've not mentioned anything Sinclair has had to say about nutrition and environmental pollutants, both of which I feel are critical factors. Perhaps he does take them into account, though I'm not familiar with his work.

The soils have become so depleted, the environment so polluted, and the foods so many of us eat so adulterated, that I don't know how any major breakthrough in longevity could be made without addressing those issues. It makes sense to me that these factors (and others, like ubiquitous EMFs) could actually be what's causing some of the "scratches" to our DNA. Just a thought.

I decided to take his suggestion to heart and limit the time I ingested food to about six hours.

Hi @Leila -- I too have settled into an intermittent fasting regimen, and like you, have found it very beneficial to my overall health and sense of well being. I've heard stories of people who decided to try intermittent fasting, without changing their diet whatsoever, only to discover that many of their health problems went away. I can't help but think their health improvements would be even greater if they ate a balanced organic food diet.

Since intermittent fasting is so beneficial to overall health, I also can't help but think many people who have tinnitus might be helped by giving it a try. Sometimes when I go up to 24+ hours without eating, my tinnitus takes on a different "texture", sometimes a little louder, but sometimes a little softer. I may try a several day juice fast some time to see if it might be even more helpful.

 

[TeslaGuy]

Hi @TeslaGuy -- Interesting conversation. I've been researching optimal health and longevity for quite some time, and find it interesting that you've not mentioned anything Sinclair has had to say about nutrition and environmental pollutants, both of which I feel are critical factors. Perhaps he does take them into account, though I'm not familiar with his work.

Hi! Yes, actually he does mention intermittent fasting and plant based diet (or at least to keep the glucose levels low). Also, cold exposure and sleep. Those are things he mentioned everyone can do at the moment. Even if we would get these kinds of treatments soon enough, it doesn't mean that we should neglect healthy life habits. Yeah, maybe I should have mentioned these

Yeah, population growth is a definitely another thing to consider. Earth is a closed system with a finite amount of resources. Natural resources would get depleted way more quicker in a world where reverse aging exists and there's a lack of population control at the same time.

Governments of the world are likely going to take active measures to curtail population growth. This obviously raises ethical and moral questions. Procreation will either be heavily regulated in many parts of the world or even strictly forbidden. I expect people to revolt against this.

Looking at the data, it seems that the population is still growing but showing early signs of slowing down. Fertility rates are going down. I have read that our reproductive cells are becoming less efficient. That could become a problem at some point. It is said to be due to our lifestyle: lack of sleep, bad food, chemicals etc.

There is this theory of population collapse. Elon Musk seems to be afraid of it. I don't care much about Musk but this is one possible future that needs to be considered carefully.

 

[Leila]

I listened to about a third of a two hour interview with Aubrey de Grey and you are absolutely right, @TeslaGuy, his perspective on and research into the matter of aging is fascinating. The timbre of his voice, though, sends my hyperacusis into overdrive, so it will take me a little while to watch the rest of the interview.

Man, you have no idea what you have done with your thread I've just started to read Graham Hancock's Magicians of the Gods and that book already has me looking into all kinds of (un)related topics and come up with far too many crazy theories. Having somebody (or somebodies) willing to discuss another one of my other crazy interests---there really only is one solution: I need a clone!

 

[just1morething]

Btw @just1morething, the other day here in Melbourne, we reached a top of 41 degrees Celsius. I believe that's about 105 degrees Fahrenheit. Now that's hot.

I've heard it can get extremely hot in parts of Australia. I suppose most people are indoors most of the time with AC when it's that hot. You have low humidity from what I've read so that should help. Also it seems your extreme heat doesn't last long.

I'd like to see the koala bears. I know many died during the wildfires.

 

[Leila]

Yeah, population growth is a definitely another thing to consider. Earth is a closed system with a finite amount of resources. Natural resources would get depleted way more quicker in a world where reverse aging exists and there's a lack of population control at the same time.

In a world without age or health related death, society or what we have come to assume society ought to be like would have to be looked at in a completely new way. The absence of death challenges everything because so many things we do in our life we do at a certain time and age because biology dictates us to do so.

We'd still be linear beings because we only move forward in time but everything we have been taught or that has been indirectly taught to us about how to live our lives would have to be reconsidered.

Most of our current systems that keep our societies and economies working only work because people have an expiry date attached to them. Just imagine to literally having to work for the rest of your life or to 167 or 867 years instead of the 67 years you're currently expected to work (in Germany, at least) until you are put out to pasture. Or can there even be something like an retirement age in a society that doesn't age?

All right, we're already getting close to the point where 80-90% of the current jobs will be obsolete in no time because they can be just as well if not better done by machines. Who is going to support all these people? The 10-20% whose jobs couldn't been done without? Me do think so. Not.

To me there are two obvious solutions, A) everybody is given whatever they need to live their life in comfort. Period. And please don't ask where this support is coming from because that's the Pferdefuß of this plan. B) the productive few will be rewarded for their work but everybody else needs to figure out how best to survive with what they have or are capable of producing.

These are probably the two most radical options, there could also be a boom in VR technology and everybody will be happy to spend their life glued to their sofa, staring at the ceiling with their VR glasses on, consuming the bare minimum because your real life requirements don't matter anymore. Or maybe some smart cocky will come up with a plan for the kind of human augmentations that will allow us to replace 2/3 of our skin cells with tiny little solar panels that will enable our bodies to process sunlight for nourishment.

Governments of the world are likely going to take active measures to curtail population growth. This obviously raises ethical and moral questions. Procreation will either be heavily regulated in many parts of the world or even strictly forbidden. I expect people to revolt against this.

You're probably right in that the governments of the world will be quick to insist on population control - and not just population but a kind of thought control, too. Because in a society without drones, and in a society without death nobody wants to be a drone - not that they'd have to with 80-90% of the drone jobs being outsourced to robots - people will have a lot of free time on their hands. However, plenty of able bodies with plenty of idle time more often than not is a, let's just say, a rather unfortunate combination. So, for people not to run amuck, I'm sure our governments would see the need for lots of surveillance and a strict limitation of personal freedoms. But how long would a person / a world population with the potential to live forever put up with these kinds of restrictions?

There would probably be massive and bloody global uprising (because just because there is no need for you to die doesn't mean that your life can't be ended) and the ones who are left would have to radically adapt their view on how to live as individuals as well as an all but immortal world population.

Seems like there's a lack of practicality for reverse aging.

Not necessarily, but it would require a fundamental change in perspective in how we go about living our life.

 

[Leila]

Hi @Leila -- I too have settled into an intermittent fasting regimen, and like you, have found it very beneficial to my overall health and sense of well being. I've heard stories of people who decided to try intermittent fasting, without changing their diet whatsoever, only to discover that many of their health problems went away. I can't help but think their health improvements would be even greater if they ate a balanced organic food diet.

I'm one of those people <laugh>. Not that I've been living a totally unhealthy life but I'm far from über-healthy or all organic, either. Sinclair's explanation just made a lot of sense to me and since, out of the three basic methods of causing stress to your body, a 6 hour window for food consumption was easiest for me to integrate in my everyday life, that's what I decided on giving a try. I didn't even know the term intermittent fasting (Sinclair never used it, at least not in the interview I watched) until a former colleague of mine told me about this amazing, new diet she was on.

Hi @LeilaSince intermittent fasting is so beneficial to overall health, I also can't help but think many people who have tinnitus might be helped by giving it a try. Sometimes when I go up to 24+ hours without eating, my tinnitus takes on a different "texture", sometimes a little louder, but sometimes a little softer. I may try a several day juice fast some time to see if it might be even more helpful.

It's great that you see a change in your tinnitus because of your intermittent fasting regimen. I haven't noticed a difference at all other than an increase in energy and a deeper and more restful sleep. Oh, and I haven't been sick since I've started my "window eating" but that might be down to good luck.

I haven't done a proper fast in a very long time but I remember that it felt very liberating and heady when I did. Almost as if ridding myself of an addiction. The intermittent fasting feels al bit like this to me, too. It showed me how very much my life had been dictated by habit and an invisible clock, instead of real hunger or thirst. For the first months I used to head to the kitchen every time my body had been trained to expect a certain meal. This involuntary action made me aware that eating was something I had been trained to do and that had become a habit to me. The longer I did my 6 hour routine, the more the urge faded and eventually even went away.

If somebody had told me this was going to happen or that I was to discover something like this about myself, I would have laughed at them. Good thing nobody did and I got to make this incredible experience!

 

[TeslaGuy]

I listened to about a third of a two hour interview with Aubrey de Grey and you are absolutely right, @TeslaGuy, his perspective on and research into the matter of aging is fascinating. The timbre of his voice, though, sends my hyperacusis into overdrive, so it will take me a little while to watch the rest of the interview.

Man, you have no idea what you have done with your thread I've just started to read Graham Hancock's Magicians of the Gods and that book already has me looking into all kinds of (un)related topics and come up with far too many crazy theories. Having somebody (or somebodies) willing to discuss another one of my other crazy interests---there really only is one solution: I need a clone!

You are welcome my friend! I hope you are able to watch the whole interview! I have watched many of Aubrey's interviews and yeah, there is something about the voice. I have fallen asleep a couple of times while listening to him talking about the research and thoughts

I will definitely check that book at some point! I like to keep myself distracted with these kinds of things. This aging reversal science got me so hooked and I can't get enough of it

 

[ZFire]

All very good points you bring up @Leila.

All right, we're already getting close to the point where 80-90% of the current jobs will be obsolete in no time because they can be just as well if not better done by machines. Who is going to support all these people? The 10-20% whose jobs couldn't been done without? Me do think so. Not.

To me there are two obvious solutions, A) everybody is given whatever they need to live their life in comfort. Period. And please don't ask where this support is coming from because that's the Pferdefuß of this plan. B) the productive few will be rewarded for their work but everybody else needs to figure out how best to survive with what they have or are capable of producing.

Something definitely needs to be done about automation. I've always been a proponent of universal basic income to combat automation and corporate advances in AI as a starter.

 

[TeslaGuy]

Does anyone have any experience from "longevity" supplements? I have decided to try NMN and Quercetin. Just for a while to see if I get any benefits.

 

[Lane]

I have decided to try NMN and Quercetin. Just for a while to see if I get any benefits.

Hey @TeslaGuy -- You may want to check out this somewhat sobering article. -- BTW, I applaud your inclination to try various supplements to see how they effect you. I've been at it for years!

Analysis of 22 NMN Products Finds 14 Contain <1% NMN - Discussion

 

[Artemis2K]

For now I think that exercise and hyperbaric oxygen therapy are the best way to go. I understand some of the hype of Metformin, but I'd need to have a lot more evidence before I try to convince a doctor to give me a diabetes drug for off-label use lol.

 

[TeslaGuy]

Hey @TeslaGuy -- You may want to check out this somewhat sobering article. -- BTW, I applaud your inclination to try various supplements to see how they effect you. I've been at it for years!

Analysis of 22 NMN Products Finds 14 Contain <1% NMN - Discussion

Yeah! If the supplements are safe, there is no harm to keep experimenting. I have seen those numbers and it makes me sad how people are deceived with the products. I chose to experiment with Quercetin since I read that it could also help with allergies since it is a natural antihistamine. I live in Finland and I ordered my supplements from MoleQlar. It is a online shop located in Germany and it looks pretty reliable. They publish the quality control reports of every supplement batch.

For now I think that exercise and hyperbaric oxygen therapy are the best way to go. I understand some of the hype of Metformin, but I'd need to have a lot more evidence before I try to convince a doctor to give me a diabetes drug for off-label use lol.

I have not looked that much into Metformin, but maybe I should read an article or two about it. Pretty wild if my doctor would give me a diabetes drug without diabetes!