Since We're Supposed to Stop Using Headphones, Can You Play Music and Podcasts Through Hearing Aids?

[kingsfan]

Looking for guidance on this issue. I too have been using my Bose NC buds without music because it substantially lowers the noise level for me in otherwise noisy environments. Is there any evidence that ANC is harmful to ears or aggravates tinnitus?

I have read that noise cancelling headphones do not provide any noise protection.

 

[kingsfan]

Apple seems to be serious about hearing health. If you open up the Health app on your phone it gives all the details of noise expose over your day, week, month as well as headphone levels. Plus they put in a bunch of masking sounds (Background Sounds).

Yes they have some nice features now.

 

[Clerkp]

I have read that noise cancelling headphones do not provide any noise protection.

Do you have a source? I can certainly represent that with noise canceling headphones on I can listen at much lower volumes so I am skeptical of such claims. Moreover, not providing protection and causing harm are different.

Noise-canceling headphones can help prevent hearing loss, if you use them right

 

[GoatSheep]

I checked out some audio forums and this topic is discussed there as well.

There's also been mentions of using open-back headphones being beneficial for tinnitus relief. For instance:

"I would check your headphones c frequency response. Our ears are more sensitive and more susceptible to damage in the 3-6 kHz range, so smoother headphones would be safer at higher volumes than say Grados."

Any idea what they would mean by 'smoother headphones'?

I feel like my tinnitus is sensitive to raspy static like sounds like you hear on a bad phone speaker driver. I tried watch an old movie from the 50's recently and the sound recording has that same irritating quality too. I think smoother does sound like the right way to describe speakers that are easier on my ears.

What kind of spec should I be looking for if I'm searching for a smoother sound in headphones?

Here is a break down of the different types of sound signatures for headphones.

https://www.headphonezone.in/blogs/audiophile-guide/sound-signatures-explained

 

[Michael Leigh]

Can you elaborate on this a bit.

Unfortunately I can't. My posts are intended for guidance only and are not absolute. If you wish to try some of my suggestions, see what works for you.

Best of luck.
Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

I'm gonna beat a dead horse. I too appreciate @Michael Leigh's contributions on this forum and to me personally. I already know Michael's response but I frankly cannot find a single scientific source suggesting that headphones - IEMs or otherwise - are dangerous in and of themselves.

As I have previously said, my posts are intended for guidance only and are not absolute. I believe you are tying to find scientific answers to your questions regarding tinnitus and the way it reacts. You won't find any because each person will experience the condition differently. People that have noise induced tinnitus do share certain similarities and I have previously explained this to you, particularly those that return to using any type of headphones after habituation. They risk making their tinnitus worse each time they use headphones, earbuds, headsets. At first everything may seem fine but things can suddenly change without warning.

Some doctors will tell patients that have noise induced tinnitus what they want to hear: using headphones is fine as long as the volume is kept low. The truth is these doctors don't know. Do not be lulled into a false belief because they are medically qualified they know about tinnitus. They are physicians and I believe experts in their field of medicine, but most know very little about tinnitus, particularly noise induced which they have probably never experienced.

I have noise induced tinnitus and have made it my mission to do my own research into the condition and what can make it worse. Corresponding and counselling people affected with it, I have concluded that using any type of headphones after habituation and being exposed to further loud noise, are the two main causes that make it worse.

Some people that have noise induced tinnitus use headphones, earbuds, or headsets without any problems. However, I have said things can suddenly change. Type headphones in the search box at the top of this page and read members posts. If you are looking for concrete surety that using any type headphones at low volume is safe, then I don't believe you will find it.

In my opinion, anyone that has noise induced tinnitus is risking their health using them.

Michael

 

[Jack Straw]

This is the crux of the headphone argument and anyone who cannot provide a reasonable answer here but continues to denegrate headphones is not arguing in good faith.

This is, from my perspective, similar to arguing with people who do not believe COVID-19 exists. When measurable reality is rejected by one party, arguing is a fool's errand, but I am but a fool with a keyboard (and an evidence based understanding of how speakers work).

I have been arguing this for years! Haha! It doesn't make sense that 60 decibels from an external source is different from 60 feet away. Its all the same sound. No one has every been able to prove otherwise.

Below is a thread where I show Apple's new safety features regarding headphones.

iPhone's Headphone Safety Feature

 

[Flet]

Looking for guidance on this issue. I too have been using my Bose NC buds without music because it substantially lowers the noise level for me in otherwise noisy environments. Is there any evidence that ANC is harmful to ears or aggravates tinnitus?

Me too. This particular thing bothers me, the idea that ANC in an earbud is actually playing a sound too high/low to hear, but at too much of a volume that I can't control.

Personally, I would think that something like that would be illegal and immoral, and if discovered would be all over the news. Plus, I just purchased some Beats Studio buds to be noise cancelling AND because of the posts just above discussing the Apple ecosystem (Beats ANC earbuds will work in letting me know the dB and timing etc...).

Beyond listening to music as my absolute #1 hobby (it's more than a hobby, it's my life), I also can not NOT use earbuds very often as work discussion zoom/teams meetings make it a necessity.

So please help.

 

[Clerkp]

As I have previously said, my posts are intended for guidance only and are not absolute. I believe you are tying to find scientific answers to your questions regarding tinnitus and the way it reacts. You won't find any because each person will experience the condition differently. People that have noise induced tinnitus do share certain similarities and I have previously explained this to you, particularly those that return to using any type of headphones after habituation. They risk making their tinnitus worse each time they use headphones, earbuds, headsets. At first everything may seem fine but things can suddenly change without warning.

Some doctors will tell patients that have noise induced tinnitus what they want to hear: using headphones is fine as long as the volume is kept low. The truth is these doctors don't know. Do not be lulled into a false belief because they are medically qualified they know about tinnitus. They are physicians and I believe experts in their field of medicine, but most know very little about tinnitus, particularly noise induced which they have probably never experienced.

I have noise induced tinnitus and have made it my mission to do my own research into the condition and what can make it worse. Corresponding and counselling people affected with it, I have concluded that using any type of headphones after habituation and being exposed to further loud noise, are the two main causes that make it worse.

Some people that have noise induced tinnitus use headphones, earbuds, or headsets without any problems. However, I have said things can suddenly change. Type headphones in the search box at the top of this page and read members posts. If you are looking for concrete surety that using any type headphones at low volume is safe, then I don't believe you will find it.

In my opinion, anyone that has noise induced tinnitus is risking their health using them.

Michael

Thank you Michael. Yes, I typically look for scientific explanations. I don't doubt your advice or your experiences but when things lack a scientific basis, I tend to wonder whether there could be other causes. I am definitely giving up headphones for about 90% of my prior use cases. There are a few that I will take the risk on, including very very low volumes when doing certain activities like exercise where without them, I'd be miserable.

 

[Clerkp]

Me too. This particular thing bothers me, the idea that ANC in an earbud is actually playing a sound too high/low to hear, but at too much of a volume that I can't control.

Personally, I would think that something like that would be illegal and immoral, and if discovered would be all over the news. Plus, I just purchased some Beats Studio buds to be noise cancelling AND because of the posts just above discussing the Apple ecosystem (Beats ANC earbuds will work in letting me know the dB and timing etc...).

Beyond listening to music as my absolute #1 hobby (it's more than a hobby, it's my life), I also can not NOT use earbuds very often as work discussion zoom/teams meetings make it a necessity.

So please help.

I feel your pain. I love gadgets and true wireless headphones were once of my favorite hobbies. As much as the music, I enjoy the tech. I'm not going to use IEMs anymore and possibly not even over ears. I am considering using noise cancelling headphones for a few specific situations - primarily exercise. I could go with IEMs or over ears for this but IEMs will be preferable. I have tried by Bose ANC True Wireless both with no sound and with very low volume. I have not noticed any aggravation of my tinnitus but I am concerned that something could be going on with the ANC that we don't know about. I still have to believe that ANC plus a lower volume is preferable to no ANC and a higher volume. By way of example, I ride a stationary bike with a fan. If I just put the ANC headphones on, everything is MUCH quieter. How can this be a bad thing?

 

[Michael Leigh]

Thank you Michael. Yes, I typically look for scientific explanations. I don't doubt your advice or your experiences but when things lack a scientific basis, I tend to wonder whether there could be other causes. I am definitely giving up headphones for about 90% of my prior use cases. There are a few that I will take the risk on, including very very low volumes when doing certain activities like exercise where without them, I'd be miserable.

Many years ago when I first got tinnitus, I didn't want to believe that is was listening to music through headphones at too high a volume caused it. Eventually I had to be honest with myself that it was my fault. I was using headphones too much and listening to music at too high a volume without realizing it.

All I can say is to be careful when using any type of headphones even at low volume. If the tinnitus spikes or slowly increases without you noticing it at first, it might not reduce to its previous baseline level.

Michael

 

[Clerkp]

Many years ago when I first got tinnitus, I didn't want to believe that is was listening to music through headphones at too high a volume caused it. Eventually I had to be honest with myself that it was my fault. I was using headphones too much and listening to music at too high a volume without realizing it.

All I can say is to be careful when using any type of headphones even at low volume. If the tinnitus spikes or slowly increases without you noticing it at first, it might not reduce to its previous baseline level.

Michael

Thank you. I will. I too have no one to blame but myself for this situation. Stupid teenager going to too many concerts. Over the years I've Cleary not done enough to protect myself. I cannot be sure what has caused this increase - its probably just a combination of not being careful enough generally - and at this point I'm not expecting a reduction to baseline. So from here on out I need to make sure it doesn't get any worse.

 

[GregCA]

This particular thing bothers me, the idea that ANC in an earbud is actually playing a sound too high/low to hear, but at too much of a volume that I can't control.

That's not quite how ANC works though. Here's a good primer (pay attention to the wave labelled "COMBINED" as that's what hits your ear drum):

 

[kingsfan]

Do you have a source? I can certainly represent that with noise canceling headphones on I can listen at much lower volumes so I am skeptical of such claims. Moreover, not providing protection and causing harm are different.

Noise-canceling headphones can help prevent hearing loss, if you use them right

Yea that article states that noise cancellation protects your hearing by allowing you to listen to headphones at a lower volume, but nothing about protection from outside volume levels.

Noise cancellation may reduce some low frequency sounds but that's about it:

Noise Canceling Hearing Protection – Does It Really Exist?

Noise-Cancelling Headphones/Earbuds versus Hearing Protection Devices (Fact Sheet, PDF)

 

[Clerkp]

Yea that article states that noise cancellation protects your hearing by allowing you to listen to headphones at a lower volume, but nothing about protection from outside volume levels.

Noise cancellation may reduce some low frequency sounds but that's about it:

Noise Canceling Hearing Protection – Does It Really Exist?

Noise-Cancelling Headphones/Earbuds versus Hearing Protection Devices (Fact Sheet, PDF)

Okay but the point still remains. Something is better than nothing and if it allows me to listen at lower volumes that has to be a good thing. Most importantly, does it harm your ears? It does not appear to be the case but I'm a little confused about that.

 

[kingsfan]

Okay but the point still remains. Something is better than nothing and if it allows me to listen at lower volumes that has to be a good thing. Most importantly, does it harm your ears? It does not appear to be the case but I'm a little confused about that.

Yea I think I misinterpreted what you were asking, so I apologize for that.

 

[Clerkp]

Yea I think I misinterpreted what you were asking, so I apologize for that.

Nah - I appreciate the response. I think I am deducing that ANC doesn't "really" lower noise levels but I think it does in fact allow you to listen to music at a lower volume which has some value. As for whether ANC could be harmful to tinnitus, I'm not seeing that. This does throw a wrench in my plans to use ANC in nosier situations however since it doesn't look like it offers any protection.

 

[GregCA]

Okay but the point still remains. Something is better than nothing and if it allows me to listen at lower volumes that has to be a good thing. Most importantly, does it harm your ears? It does not appear to be the case but I'm a little confused about that.

I haven't seen any scientific study that demonstrates harm, but I have come across claims of harmful outcomes from it on this very forum.

I think I am deducing that ANC doesn't "really" lower noise levels but I think it does in fact allow you to listen to music at a lower volume which has some value.

Scientifically speaking, ANC does really lower noise levels. That's because the destructive interference process reduces the amplitude of the sound wave hitting your drum, and therefore, its intensity. It doesn't do as good a job throughout the whole audible spectrum (it's not as good with high frequencies as it is with low frequencies), but it's still a win in terms of sound level reduction.

 

[Flet]

Scientifically speaking, ANC does really lower noise levels. That's because the destructive interference process reduces the amplitude of the sound wave hitting your drum, and therefore, its intensity. It doesn't do as good a job throughout the whole audible spectrum (it's not as good with high frequencies as it is with low frequencies), but it's still a win in terms of sound level reduction.

This gives me some hope. Thanks.

 

[twa]

You can open up the app on your Apple Watch and get a current reading anytime, but the cool thing is it constantly monitor the noise level of your environment and gives you a warning if it gets too loud (like for an instant) or if you are above 80 or 90 or whatever dB level for the amount of time that the CDC says is bad for you. It comes up as a notice with a vibration on your watch. Bright yellow "Loud Environment" notice with a description of how loud for how long. Sometimes I will get the notice in funny places like from swimming or in the shower, but overall it is a really cool safety feature.

I am going to check it out! Thanks for the info. I use my Apple Watch for walking and steps every day.

Best,
twa

 

[kingsfan]

I am going to check it out! Thanks for the info. I use my Apple Watch for walking and steps every day.

Best,
twa

I have the Noise complication on my Apple Watch face so I can check the decibel level of my environment quickly.

 

[nay]

You can open up the app on your Apple Watch and get a current reading anytime, but the cool thing is it constantly monitor the noise level of your environment and gives you a warning if it gets too loud (like for an instant) or if you are above 80 or 90 or whatever dB level for the amount of time that the CDC says is bad for you. It comes up as a notice with a vibration on your watch. Bright yellow "Loud Environment" notice with a description of how loud for how long. Sometimes I will get the notice in funny places like from swimming or in the shower, but overall it is a really cool safety feature.

Mine goes off whenever it's windy outside!

 

[blamingeverything]

Mine goes off whenever it's windy outside!

Yes, I'd never thought about this while cycling before tinnitus but now, I realize it absolutely is too loud in the wind. I googled it once and there was a bit about cyclists commonly having hearing loss.

 

[nogg]

Yes, I'd never thought about this while cycling before tinnitus but now, I realize it absolutely is too loud in the wind. I googled it once and there was a bit about cyclists commonly having hearing loss.

Indeed. After my hyperacusis and tinnitus started, I HAD to wear earplugs when riding a bike I could still hear traffic sounds quite well, so it didn't cause any safety issues. But, as my condition worsened due to other things, I've had to give up bicycle riding altogether.