Somatic Tinnitus Causes (TMJ, Neck, etc.): Is There a Way to Tell?

[Greg Sacramento]

@KWC What exercises are you doing? I hope nothing for the jaw and neck at this early stage. Just smoothing of skin very gently alone jawline to ears and under the Adam's apple. I wouldn't be doing jaw or neck exercises when receiving cold laser treatments.

 

[KWC]

@Greg Sacramento Neck exercises given by physical therapist and probably not so gentle of digastric as well as SCM.

Dumb and impatient. Maybe I will listen and learn this time. It's weird like I can almost feel the reverberations through my jaw via the soreness and sound.

Trying to figure out ice or heat.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Trying to figure out ice or heat.

Hard question: Try cool, not cold first. A washcloth - rinse with cool water and apply. Use warm if needed, not too hot. You could try letting not to hot water sit in your mouth for ten seconds and repeat.

 

[KWC]

Has anyone ever heard using a TMJ splint changes your tinnitus sound? Mine has changed since wearing the splints. Not sure if that is good or bad. Splints have helped my TMJ joint pain for sure.

 

[just1morething]

@KWC

DOUGLAS K. TAVENNER, JR., D.D.S.

20 Mountaingate Drive, Frederick, MD 21703-6098 - (301) 662-0100


EXERCISE* – OPENING MOUTH

1) Stay completely off ALL sugar, energy drinks, and soft drinks.

2) Very tight muscles need moist heat applied before starting exercise.

3) Start with mouth closed and teeth together in your normal biting position.

4) Move your lower jaw and teeth straight forward – hold for 3 seconds.

5) Open your mouth as far as you are able – hold for 3 seconds.
When opening, look in a mirror to make adjustments so your lower jaw is going straight opening and closing and not going to the Left or Right (correct as needed to only go straight).

6) Stretch your mouth open a little farther – hold for 1 second.

7) Close your mouth in the forward position – hold for 3 seconds.

8) Slide your jaw back to your normal biting position – rest here 10 seconds.

9) You have just finished 1-cycle of this exercise. Repeat for 6 cycles.


EXERCISE* – HEAD & NECK

SIT IN A CHAIR KEEPING YOUR BACK AS STRAIGHT AS YOUR ARE ABLE.

1) The "YES" directional exercise (forward and backward):

a) Start with your head in your normal forward-looking direction.
b) Bend head forward attempting to touch your chin on your chest.
c) Return to your normal forward-looking direction.
d) Bend head backward looking on ceiling behind you.
e) Return to your normal forward-looking direction.
f) You have just finished 1-cycle of this exercise. Repeat for 6 cycles.

2) The "NO" directional exercise (side to side):

a) Start with your head in your normal forward-looking direction.
b) Turn your chin toward your left shoulder – do not tilt your head.
c) Return to your normal forward-looking direction.
d) Turn your chin toward your right shoulder – do not tilt your head.
e) Return to your normal forward-looking direction.
f) You have just finished 1-cycle of this exercise. Repeat for 6 cycles.

3) The "SLEEPING" directional exercise (laying over left and right):

a) Start with your head in your normal forward-looking direction.
b) Lower your left ear toward your left shoulder – do not raise shoulder.
c) Return to your normal forward-looking direction.
d) Lower your right ear toward your right shoulder – do not raise shoulder.
e) Return to your normal forward-looking direction.
f) You have just finished 1-cycle of this exercise. Repeat for 6 cycles.

*These above proprietary exercises are strictly limited to only those patients Dr. Tavenner has specifically prescribed and instructed to use.

 

[KWC]

@just1morething, thanks.

Are these something you found or were instructed to do?

I have to be careful with exercises.

Saw the ENT today. Still no clue on what lump under ear on jaw line is but gave me a steroid shot there. Guess we will see if there is any benefit.

As noted the tinnitus is different since wearing the splint.

How are you?

@Greg Sacramento, hope you are well as can be.

Ken

 

[Lilah]

Has anyone ever heard using a TMJ splint changes your tinnitus sound? Mine has changed since wearing the splints. Not sure if that is good or bad. Splints have helped my TMJ joint pain for sure.

I read earlier you had some ear pain. Is the splint helping with the ear pain?

 

[KWC]

I think so. Still some soreness but I think it has improved some.

 

[just1morething]

@just1morething, thanks.

Are these something you found or were instructed to do?

I have to be careful with exercises.

Saw the ENT today. Still no clue on what lump under ear on jaw line is but gave me a steroid shot there. Guess we will see if there is any benefit.

As noted the tinnitus is different since wearing the splint.

How are you?

@Greg Sacramento, hope you are well as can be.

Ken

I was sent an email to stop my noise in left TMJ. I seemed good last night but when I woke up it's now blaring loudly. Sleep shuts it off but I can't sleep all day. I was going to try prolotherapy in left jaw possibly.

 

[KWC]

Am I understanding correctly, that this doctor doesn't think spine alignment affects tinnitus? I went to a NUCCA chiropractor for about 6 months, which had no impact on the tinnitus.

@Lilah I know you did not have any success with chiro.

@Greg Sacramento what are your thoughts on chiro?

@just1morething have you tried chiro?

@Mathew Gould have you tried chiro?

I have seen good feedback on and negative feedback as well.

Ken

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I don't support recommending C spine manipulation on a message board. Tinnitus can have one cause, often not difficult in consideration if someone gives a history, but any cause can lead to other problems not noted in history. Must always consider fusion cell activity. Neck therapy and neck manipulation needs careful consideration with hypertension and with many causes and conditions of pulsatile tinnitus. Outward extension therapy of muscles of neck may be beneficial, but radiological exams are needed first.

____________________________________________________________________

Read about salicylates in this article, as we have also provided studies that say the opposite'
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7349625/

Read this article and there's others that say the opposite' https://www.researchgate.net/public...atosensory_Integration_in_the_Auditory_System

What takes place for many of us:
Aberrant serotonin signaling has previously been implicated with hyperactivity in the DCN related to tinnitus. Tang identified that serotonin does not simply or globally increase activity in the DCN, but rather appears to suppress signaling through the auditory pathway while enhancing transmission through a multisensory pathway. This activation may have positive biological implications, such as integration of multisensory input for response to salient environmental events or negative implications, such as tinnitus and help explain modulation of tinnitus with head movement and changes in jaw position.

 

[KWC]

I don't support recommending C spine manipulation on a message board. Tinnitus can have one cause, often not difficult in consideration if someone gives a history, but any cause can lead to other problems not noted in history. Must always consider fusion cell activity. Neck therapy and neck manipulation needs careful consideration with hypertension and with many causes and conditions of pulsatile tinnitus. Outward extension therapy of muscles of neck may be beneficial, but radiological exams are needed first.

@Greg Sacramento all very good points. Guess will have to ride out splint therapy with back posture exercises and gentle neck exercise's. Was also told that the knot in my neck below my ear can be a inflamed stylomandibular ligament. Never heard of a knot in a ligament before. Guess it is possible. MRI/CT did not show anything on neck and pressing on the knot (thought digastric muscle) does not refer pain to areas I read up on above and behind ear.

Ken

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@KWC I added more under the line in my above post that shows tinnitus can be so complicated. With that c -spine manipulation - the base of the stem cell and head needs careful consideration.

What I know a little about:

Reasons that associate to the jaw and mouth, hypertension and problems that it can cause, including pulsatile tinnitus and how muscle spasms of neck causes problems.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Causes of TMJ. Includes muscle spasms from neck.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...r_Using_CBCT_Imaging_An_Exploratory_Study#pfa


Petrotympanic fissure provides direct
contact between the auricular cavity and the middle ear.
Often divided into petrotympanic or petrosquamous, the
petrotympanic fissure may be used by infectious pathogens
for a bidirectional transmission [38]. Moreover, the dis-
placement of anatomical structures in the temporoman-
dibular joint can cause a variety of symptoms associated with
otological dysfunctions. One of the multiple theories
attempting to explain the association between otological
symptoms and TMD assumes that TMD results are either
from excessive mechanical pressure on the discomalleolar
ligament or from direct strain on the auriculotemporal nerve
[39, 40]. It is also believed that the increased muscle tension
of the jaw observed in patients with TMJ might result in a
significant increase of the pressure on the temporoman-
dibular joints and, thus, overloaded the surrounding tissues
and muscles [38]. Although in our sample, all subjects had
arthritis, the presence of increased muscle tension cannot be
excluded. Muscle tension as a response to psychosocial
stressors occurs in all patients with TMJ.
Interestingly, many reports indicate that TMD patients
complain more often of tinnitus than of jaw problems
[41]. e structures within the petrotympanic fissure (e.g.,
an anterior tympanic branch of the internal maxillary
artery) could likely undergo mechanical stimulation due
to the changes in the tension of maxillary muscles [34].
at, in turn, could lead to changes in cochlear micro-
circulation, such as hypoxia or even ischemia, and both of
them are known to significantly affect the cochlear
function [42, 43] by inducing degenerative processes,
which in some patients could be responsible for the
generation of tinnitus [44].

 

[KWC]

Thanks @Greg Sacramento. Not sure if it was the cold laser or the steroid shot ENT gave me in knot area of neck but having a really really hard day. TMJ area hurts and tinnitus increase is very reactive to any jaw movements.

 

[KWC]

I was sent an email to stop my noise in left TMJ. I seemed good last night but when I woke up it's now blaring loudly. Sleep shuts it off but I can't sleep all day. I was going to try prolotherapy in left jaw possibly.

When you say you seemed good, did you mean your tinnitus was better? I understand about sleep. With meds I can get to sleep but the reprieve is short lived when I wake up.

 

[KWC]

TMJ steroid injection may be needed with inflammation - swelling and pain. Should be done by an oral maxillofacial surgeon.

@Greg Sacramento I am thinking I am going to pursue this next... are you aware of any success with TMJ steroid shots helping with tinnitus? My pain has gotten better but I understand the inflammation could take a long time to get better with just splint therapy.

@just1morething didn't you say you got a couple of days relief from steroid shots?

If my TMJ doctor will not do then I will have to pursue getting it done elsewhere.

Thanks,
Ken

 

[just1morething]

When you say you seemed good, did you mean your tinnitus was better? I understand about sleep. With meds I can get to sleep but the reprieve is short lived when I wake up.

Yeah, but I'm not consistently good. I'm not sure what to do? I may try prolotherapy to my jaw this week just because I suffer too much. It seems my neck is messed up as well. I was approved for a neck revision surgery this November.

You should try a pain management Dr. on trying a TMJ injection. You might have to tell a "white lie" that you have pain to get it done. My relief never lasted very long though. It seemed to really open up my Eustachian tubes.

Going to a chiro might not be a bad idea once in a while to loosen up your neck.

 

[KWC]

Yeah, but I'm not consistently good. I'm not sure what to do? I may try prolotherapy to my jaw this week just because I suffer too much. It seems my neck is messed up as well. I was approved for a neck revision surgery this November.

You should try a pain management Dr. on trying a TMJ injection. You might have to tell a "white lie" that you have pain to get it done. My relief never lasted very long though. It seemed to really open up my Eustachian tubes.

Going to a chiro might not be a bad idea once in a while to loosen up your neck.

@just1morething thanks. Let me know how the prolotherapy goes. I need to try something. The hope is it will help the tinnitus and the pain. Mine is more of a dull pain but that coupled with the tinnitus is driving me nuts.

 

[just1morething]

@just1morething thanks. Let me know how the prolotherapy goes. I need to try something. The hope is it will help the tinnitus and the pain. Mine is more of a dull pain but that coupled with the tinnitus is driving me nuts.

@KWC, I will update after seeing prolotherapy Dr. this Thursday. I have kinda static noise right now. Tinnitus definitely drives a person nuts. Hopefully some kind of therapy or injections will relieve your noise.

 

[KWC]

@KWC, I will update after seeing prolotherapy Dr. this Thursday. I have kinda static noise right now. Tinnitus definitely drives a person nuts. Hopefully some kind of therapy or injections will relieve your noise.

@just1morething thanks, you too. I had shot in neck today and am doing a steroid pack treatment.

 

[KWC]

@just1morething hope your shots have helped.

@Greg Sacramento are you aware of downsides to TMJ splints? At 3 months I am questioning the approach. I would say some TMJ joint pain is better but no change in tinnitus.

I was confident I would see some improvement.

Going to pursue seeing an oral surgeon.

 

[just1morething]

@just1morething hope your shots have helped.

@Greg Sacramento are you aware of downsides to TMJ splints? At 3 months I am questioning the approach. I would say some TMJ joint pain is better but no change in tinnitus.

I was confident I would see some improvement.

Going to pursue seeing an oral surgeon.

I just had 1 left jaw prolotherapy injection on Thursday. It really hurts, much more than steroid injections. He wants to do 3 injections spaced about 2-3 weeks apart. Inconclusive at this point. I did get my Clonazepam filled today. Using that plus Gabapentin helps quite a bit. Thought I needed a phone consult but psychiatrist filled it anyway so that was nice.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

are you aware of downsides to TMJ splints? At 3 months I am questioning the approach. I would say some TMJ joint pain is better but no change in tinnitus.

Possible splint interference. To judge, I need to see your MRI scan of this: C5-6 degenerative disc disease. I really need to see a scan of your lower C spine.

 

[just1morething]

Possible splint interference. To judge, I need to see your MRI scan of this: C5-6 degenerative disc disease. I really need to see a scan of your lower C spine.

I was told upper cervical was more likely to cause tinnitus, especially C1-C3. Caring Medical does prolotherapy that high in cervical under live x-ray guidance. They seem awfully expensive though. I talked to them the other day. Person I talked to said they got tinnitus relief from cervical prolotherapy injections. They said there was nerve compression that prolotherapy helped.

 

[KWC]

@Greg Sacramento, I have not had spine MRI done. CT scan of neck done as noted.

BONES: C5-6 degenerative disc disease.

I guess I can request an image copy of the CT.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@KWC MRI and /or CT imaging of neck and jaw, and cone beam scans of jaw/mouth, plus an audiogram makes it very possible to detect cause(s) of somatic physical tinnitus.

Your tinnitus could relate to what is discussed in post #104 above, including arthritis, compacted wisdom teeth or bacterial infection. Or your tinnitus relates to I last posted in thread --- Searching for the Root Cause of my Tinnitus Which started After Putting Pinky in My Ear Canal --- Reason why: C5-6 degenerative disc disease - arthritis.

 

[Mathew Gould]

@KWC MRI and /or CT imaging of neck and jaw, and cone beam scans of jaw/mouth, plus an audiogram makes it very possible to detect cause(s) of somatic physical tinnitus.

Your tinnitus could relate to what is discussed in post #104 above, including arthritis, compacted wisdom teeth or bacterial infection. Or your tinnitus relates to I last posted in thread --- Searching for the Root Cause of my Tinnitus Which started After Putting Pinky in My Ear Canal --- Reason why: C5-6 degenerative disc disease - arthritis.

If a problem is detected in an MRI or CT, is it always possible to treat tinnitus and eliminate it?? Also there is 1 TMJ massage therapist in my city, could she help??

 

[KWC]

@Greg Sacramento thx. Attached is my last two audiograms. Going to request my neck CT imaging. I think my TMJ doctor wants to charge for imaging. As noted tinnitus is in right ear. Wisdom teeth were removed years ago.

At my age of 52 degeneration is normal.

 

[just1morething]

@just1morething hope your shots have helped.

Seems like they made my noise worse. If prolotherapy creates inflammation and steroids reduce inflammation I can see how it made things worse. Noise is brutal now in left ear.