Spike After Cinema

[Ecip]

These star wars movies are way too damn loud.
Remember, guys, that 30db ear plugs don't actually reduce noise by 30db. The math goes a bit different. If I remember correctly, earplugs with a rating of 32dB actually reduce loudness by 12.5dB.

See this link for examples and an explanation:
www.coopersafety.com/noisereduction.aspx

For example, if you are at a rock concert where the level of noise exposure is 100 dB and you are wearing earplugs with an NRR 33dB, your level of exposure would not be reduced to 67 dB. Instead, to determine the actual amount of decibel deduction applied (when decibels are measured dBA which is the most common), you take the NRR number (in dB), subtract seven, and then divide by two. Given the previous example, your noise reduction equation would look like the following: (33-7)/2 = 13. This means that if you are at a rock concert with a level of noise exposure at 100 dB and you are wearing a hearing protector with an NRR 33 dB, your new level of noise exposure is 87 dB. If you are wearing a product with an NRR of 27 it would deduct 10 decibels (27-7/2=10).

*To maximize noise reduction, hearing protectors must be worn properly.

 

[Blujay]

Looking again at the original poster's concern...

Days ago, he went to a movie he described as "bloody loud," and even though he wore earplugs, he has since had increased tinnitus.

That is a red flag that this person may have reactive tinnitus. Which means that loud sounds--and even sounds that most people consider normal--can cause increases in tinnitus that may or may not become permanent.

When I then saw other posts that amounted to, "It couldn't have been the movie. It's okay to do that again." I felt a duty to jump in. I personally know people with reactive tinnitus, and this poster has a hallmark of the affliction. So to protect him from possible future problems, I said: "I would never make a blanket statement that it's safe to attend the movies, even with earplugs. There are way too many variables, the most important being a viewer's degree of prior hearing damage."

To which Ed209 responded: "I think statements like these are what hold people back and make T so crippling. There is not a shred of evidence that shows the cinema is bad for your ears..."

Well, Ed209, the shred of evidence is in this poster's own words. He went to a "bloody loud" movie, and his tinnitus got worse. And it is still worse, days later. Sometimes you don't need to do a lot of research or look for "expert opinion" to find your evidence.

This is simple common sense: If someone says, "an extremely loud movie increased my tinnitus," it is irresponsible to tell that person, "Go do it again." This holds true no matter what the "experts" say, and no matter what your decibel meter reads at your local theater thousands of miles away.

Regarding your criticism of my opinion: Contrary to the assertion that my words could be "crippling," I don't know anyone who has been held back in life by a concern over movie volume. Concern over that is well-placed. But I do know people who have been literally "crippled" by an accumulation of reactive tinnitus. So I cautioned this person to think and act for himself.

 

[dh42]

I've had Tinnitus for about a year now. I also have some hearing loss (I'm 43, male). 4-5 days per weeks its what I consider fairly low...2-3 days per week it's loud.

I saw Star Wars last Friday without earplugs and I had to plug my ears at times. Big mistake not to bring them, but I have been to this theater before and the volume was never that bad or bothered me - it was obviously boosted for this movie.

On any rate, my Tinnitus has been notably worse since seeing the movie. Loud each day since. Will it likely come back down to the (copeable) levels it was before? It's a bit better today actually.

 

[Telis]

Looking again at the original poster's concern...

Days ago, he went to a movie he described as "bloody loud," and even though he wore earplugs, he has since had increased tinnitus.

That is a red flag that this person may have reactive tinnitus. Which means that loud sounds--and even sounds that most people consider normal--can cause increases in tinnitus that may or may not become permanent.

When I then saw other posts that amounted to, "It couldn't have been the movie. It's okay to do that again." I felt a duty to jump in. I personally know people with reactive tinnitus, and this poster has a hallmark of the affliction. So to protect him from possible future problems, I said: "I would never make a blanket statement that it's safe to attend the movies, even with earplugs. There are way too many variables, the most important being a viewer's degree of prior hearing damage."

To which Ed209 responded: "I think statements like these are what hold people back and make T so crippling. There is not a shred of evidence that shows the cinema is bad for your ears..."

Well, Ed209, the shred of evidence is in this poster's own words. He went to a "bloody loud" movie, and his tinnitus got worse. And it is still worse, days later. Sometimes you don't need to do a lot of research or look for "expert opinion" to find your evidence.

This is simple common sense: If someone says, "an extremely loud movie increased my tinnitus," it is irresponsible to tell that person, "Go do it again." This holds true no matter what the "experts" say, and no matter what your decibel meter reads at your local theater thousands of miles away.

Regarding your criticism of my opinion: Contrary to the assertion that my words could be "crippling," I don't know anyone who has been held back in life by a concern over movie volume. Concern over that is well-placed. But I do know people who have been literally "crippled" by an accumulation of reactive tinnitus. So I cautioned this person to think and act for himself.

I wish that I would have had your advise after I damaged my ears. I was told by various "experts" that certain noise levels were not dangerous, this turned out to be detrimental for me.

It's not like I wanted to be cautious, who wants to live life being more careful than the next guy with healthy ears right. This kind of BS advise gave me the green light to enjoy life in the same care free way that I did prior to T. What was safe for a healthy auditory system was safe for me, all good! Too bad that wasn't true for me.

What better way to forget about T than going out for dinner with friends and having a good laugh. I remember coming home after a night out and being in shock, ear pain, H, tinnitus so loud that my hearing felt like it had shut down, every external noise seemed to be distant but painful background sound compared to the ringing in my brain. I would go to bed, my ears would recover slightly, I continued this process for a long time (6 months at least). I was continuously told that "normal" sounds were safe and it was always "anxiety". Well I've never had anxiety issues in my life, all of a sudden after I had damaged my ears, now I was some kind of anxious person. I was almost convinced by these ignorant people that my condition wasn't real. And that all the pain, increased T and H after a slightly noisy event had to be in my imagination some how, and again that I was just anxious.

The statements that ed209 made here kind of make me want to yack, they sound very similar to the advise that I was given. Safe is NOT safe for everyone!!! We all have varying degrees of damage, It's dangerous advise, not everyone is crippled by anxiety related to tinnitus, some people actually have ears that are more susceptible to noise damage. What is cool for one person my not be for the next. Based on my past experiences I can pretty much guarantee that if I went to a noisy theatre with plugs in that my ears would be f//ked. But hey, I'm just another Internet story that causes people to be crippled by anxiety and should be ignored.

My opinion to others here, take it slow, don't let people like me scare, but also, DO NOT let other people tell you what is "safe" listen to your own body, take your time, it's not a race, anxiety can be helped, further damage to the ear can not be in most cases.

 

[Ed209]

Well, Ed209, the shred of evidence is in this poster's own words. He went to a "bloody loud" movie, and his tinnitus got worse. And it is still worse, days later. Sometimes you don't need to do a lot of research or look for "expert opinion" to find your evidence.

@Blujay

I don't think you've actually read a single thing I've written, you simply couldn't have done and this is exactly why people have panic spikes.

First of all his exact quote was: "it's bloody loud and my T has noticeably increased since."

You then turned that into this:

This is simple common sense: If someone says, "an extremely loud movie increased my tinnitus," it is irresponsible to tell that person, "Go do it again." This holds true no matter what the "experts" say, and no matter what your decibel meter reads at your local theater thousands of miles away.

He never said extremely loud and furthermore he specifically stated his iphone gave a reading of 97db, which we know is calibrated high. The actual db was almost certainly in the 80s. The next thing I'll state is that stress is by far the most likely catalyst for a spike, especially if you read half the stuff that gets written online, it can make you scared to do anything.

You shouldn't be saying what you are like it's fact, we are not Drs and you are basically telling the guy that he's probably damaged his ears. The chance of this when he said he was using 20db plugs is scientifically remote. Of all the ENTs and experts I've spoken to, they all told me to carry on as usual, just to use ear plugs when things get loud. I even asked about so called damage whilst wearing ear plugs, and they all unanimously said I've been reading too much online. Unless levels go into the ridiculous - which a cinema won't - you are protected with ear plugs (especially 20db in a cinema).Telling anyone anything else is just wrong, this is just going to make Darbiter (OP) think he has damaged his ears which is not helping the poor guy.

I've had a few panic spikes, the first was after I went to a music festival. I got REALLY worked up but I had 30db plugs deeply inserted. It went after around 2 days. I had another after a party and another after my first return to a band rehearsal. All of which were caused by fear and resulting in stress enduced T. I can say that since I've stopped reading some of the nonsense online these spikes and panic attacks have all but disappeared.

If anyone out there is reading this and you want to go see Star Wars, then go. DO NOT let threads like this stop you. With ear plugs YOU ARE safe. Use your own judgement and common sense. The next thing you'll read will probably be about bone conduction but that is not an issue either. You've got around 40db reduction through bone so air conduction through your ear canal will always be the primary source for noise damage. If things do get that loud you will need proper ear defenders that go over your ears anyway.

 

[Ed209]

What better way to forget about T than going out for dinner with friends and having a good laugh. I remember coming home after a night out and being in shock, ear pain, H, tinnitus so loud that my hearing felt like it had shut down, every external noise seemed to be distant but painful background sound compared to the ringing in my brain.

Telis, I feel for you we all know that feeling and it's vile. Did you wear ear plugs that night? Whenever I go out I take ear plugs and use them as soon as a certain noise threshold is reached.

 

[Telis]

Telis, I feel for you we all know that feeling and it's vile. Did you wear ear plugs that night? Whenever I go out I take ear plugs and use them as soon as a certain noise threshold is reached.

I was basically told by the "experts" that unless I was going to a concert, going to a club, or using power tools my ears should be fine and should not protect them. At onset my T was maybe medium to very low at times with mild H, could still hear it loud and clear most times though but not all that bad, not like now.

I lost a ton of hearing in those first 6-12 months and made things a lot worse by throwing caution to the wind and listening to experts. They always told me what I wanted to hear so was soooo easy to take that advise and go enjoy and ignore the other side, ignorance was bliss until things got worse. Wish I would have come here first instead of listening to the advise given by my doctors.

I was telling the experts "look my ears are fucked and in pain after sound and getting way worse". It was always the same the damn thing, oh no it's just anxiety. So yeah, it was cool for me, permission to keep doing what I felt like doing instead of being careful and listening to my body, all big regets.

My tinnitus was induced by physical damage to the ear through barotrauma and then ototoxic meds, definitely not noise induced, loud noise never bothered me until my ears became damaged/compromised, I was told that I had damage but normal noise will be just fine and that I should follow the same safety protocol as anyone else, this is absolutely not true in my case. I should have stayed home and been more careful. Sure the nights were fun, but a lifetime of punishment is definitely not worth it.

 

[geg1992]

Normal cinema is surely fine, I go quite often and wear my 33db hearos ear plugs. Never had a problem. My T got worse after Star Wars and is still worse but j think it's because I have a cold lurking around and i just happened to notice the increase after the film.

However IMAX is a different story, I avoid those films at all costs, even people without T complain it hurts their ears from being so loud

 

[IreneW]

In 2003 I went to the cinema with my son it was an Action movie which was very loud. My ears were ringing I just thought it would go away but the next day I woke up and were still ringing. Long story short after many dr appts, test etc I was diagnosed with high frequency hearing loss. I overcame that after about 1 year but recently 10-2015 had SSHL in the same ear which the T is now MUCH ouder than the first time, so loud I can hear over he shower. I didn't have that before.

 

[Jay9/13]

I use to have more issues with my T after loud concerts Kenny Wayne / Jackyl but it would clear up after a couple of days.
Now I wear ear protection all of the time when exposed to loud music/noise, it does make a difference..an ounce of protection..

 

[Sailboardman]

Basically, the entertainment industry is going out of it's way, to destroy everyone's hearing. Well done guys! However, once you've killed off all our hearing, how will you make all your money? Deaf people, don't tend to go to movies, buy stereo equipment, TV's, Cell phones, CD's, DVD's, 2000 watt, car audio systems..........etc.

Of course, "closed captioning" would become wildly popular and solve some of the issues?

 

[Zimichael]

By far the biggest problem with T is overthinking and stressing about everything that's out there. In other words living in fear of it getting worse. You will NEVER move on if it owns you is all I'm saying.

If anyone out there is reading this and you want to go see Star Wars, then go. DO NOT let threads like this stop you. With ear plugs YOU ARE safe. Use your own judgement and common sense. The next thing you'll read will probably be about bone conduction but that is not an issue either. You've got around 40db reduction through bone so air conduction through your ear canal will always be the primary source for noise damage. If things do get that loud you will need proper ear defenders that go over your ears anyway.

Ed... I was not going to add more to this thread, but I guess sometimes I just "feel the pain" so much I can't help it.

You are correct in much of what you say, but man you are flat out wrong about some of this stuff for some people!!! Not everyone knows they have what I call "normal T" that will not become "reactive" later. I sure didn't and I had T for 26 years before I found that out...then "forgot about it", and found out again 26 years later, then 6 years after that, and then 3 years after that!
And contrary to 'general convention' I did not even darn well know I was getting damaged in 2012, and two months ago!!! No clue. It was not very loud sound, but exposure time! Former in a meeting for about 3 and half hours; latter recently on a 3 hour speaker-phone call to a TT member in distress...and I was 10 feet or more away from the darn thing at normal, slightly projected speech volume! (I now have a dB meter but did not then - that got me to get one! So next time intend to measure what's going on).
Now movies are often 2 hours long or more, and the overall volume changes are all over the place, with peaks or sustained loud battles. or whatever a lot, lot louder than my darn speaker-phone on my desk with me sitting on the floor with by back leaned up against my bed ten or more feet away!

Telis got totally trashed by following the "conventional advice" re sound exposure while he was still "new and ignorant" (excuse me @Telis ). I was not at all ignorant but totally side-swiped, and thus after 2012 in particular, extremely crushed psychologically. Talk about "cruel" after all I had been through to "get back" to some semblance of "life"!!! Ughhhhhh. Plus I am, or have been, in contact privately with numerous others in the same 'more extreme' condition, and like me mostly, do not bother to post on the forum any more as get sick of being so "different" and considered "alarmists", etc., etc., etc. - I guess I have thicker skin.

Look, I realize what you are saying and indeed folks with T should go out and live their lives sensibly in relation to sound. *[Less so with H...and like I've said dozens of times, I think a LOT of people who get their first T hit - especially acoustic trauma - get "tag-along" H, even if for a few hours, days, or a week, etc.]. However, I do not consider movies "sensible" in my town - and clearly there are huge differences in theaters all over the world or same city. When the floors shake in the entry hallway.....Ummmmmmmmm, even with plugs in (and recall that 32 db plugs do not give 32 db actual reduction)...I have to wonder?!

If you have followed me at all over the years here at TT you will know I am the opposite of a scare-mongerer or "emotionalist woo woo". I just try and state clear experiential facts - my experience, and those of others I know or have encountered. And yes, in the end it is up to each individual to judge for themselves...BUT I do believe that a little dose of fear or worry at the beginning for newbies, is not that bad of a thing (and damn hard not to have anyway!). Not overboard, but if it adds some caution until they find out just what the hell is going on and what kind of T they have going...I would say that Telis' words can save a potential lifetime of suffering and limitation.

I should have stayed home and been more careful

Geeez, for a short while, at least..."Better safe than sorry" seems very wise to me.

Best, Zimichael

P.S. *Read my Profile/Info tab for ultra brief details on 'history' if you are in the dark on this - though I have not updated recently.

 

[Darbiter]

I'm new to all this, so could you explain how being someone with H makes you more susceptible to hearing damage than having T without H

 

[Zimichael]

@Darbiter ... Ummmmmmmmmmm, well it's kind of obvious really, as if you have H. or SRT (sound-reactive- tinnitus), sounds above a certain level, or for an "x" amount of time start to "hurt", or damage you more, etc., etc.
This can get tricky to explain as there is a lot of confusion about it all - plus discerning H. from SRT is still a semi- mystery to me after much time trying to figure it out. And the "hurt" aspect is as variable as hell too!

However, it may be wise to 'get informed' and spend an little while now, to maybe save a big while later. These links, etc. below may help:

How did your hyperacusis start? Has it gotten better?
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/how-did-your-hyperacusis-start-has-it-gotten-better.6761/
~ POST # 27 (Extract):
The "pain" from the hyperacusis is......well it's a tough thing to describe isn't it?! It's not like my gut pain. Or putting a machete swipe into my leg, etc. It's a deep, weird, nerve, penetration, assault, zing, zap, shock, kind of thing. It's not exactly "pain" in a normal sense. If I get zapped badly I get sort of semi-knocked out and disoriented for a brief period. Shock maybe??? Definitely an immediate "verbal exclamation" associated..."Arrrrghhhhhhh-Owwwww!!!!!" or something more akin to sailor vocabulary.
I say this as I have seen explanations/definitions where Hyperacusis means one has "ear pain"...but never been able to determine if that is like 'all the time'??? Or if just when around sound in general??? Or when get zapped???
I do not have "ear pain" all the time, or around normal speech level sound, etc., etc.

Tinnitus vs. Tinnitus + Hyperacusis: Some Basic Differences.
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-vs-tinnitus-hyperacusis-some-basic-differences.5110/
Lots of discussion on details and differences...

Posts #16 and #19 in:
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/is-winding-up-reactive-tinnitus-hypercusis.5242/#post-53511
Some references to SRT v. Hyperacusis, etc.

Best, Zimichael