Stock Market Chat

[Ed209]

This is what Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's partner, has labelled "a toxic product", the cryptocurrencies...

I know about this, many others have as well, but ask yourself why?

Warren Buffett is an old school investor who is far more likely to use gold as a safe haven when inflation becomes a risk to cash. He has also previously held banking stocks which connects him to state backed dollars in a big way; a lot of his investments rely upon the performance of FIAT currencies as well. A change to the status quo doesn't benefit him or Berkshire Hathaway in any way.

Fact is, most people were skeptics including myself, but as time moves on you have to follow the money and look at what the institutions and hedge fund managers are doing. A lot of those who were skeptical have come out and openly admitted that they were wrong and that they didn't understand it. I believe Charlie Munger falls into this category. I don't believe he has spoken about it recently, but he if was to, I think his opinion would now be different. Whether he'd openly admit that is another story as pride can get in the way. Even Michael Saylor tweeted that it was junk back in 2013. He now holds $235m in Bitcoin and his Nasdaq listed company holds half a billion. The shareholders had to vote on this decision which means the majority agreed to it.

You should do your own research into cryptos and look at the overwhelming evidence that suggests they aren't going to just disappear any time soon. The fact that S&P will be listing them further demonstrates the movement towards mass adoption.

Here's a video of someone admitting they were wrong, and there are many more like this.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vt4n5xseqoa196f/Video 07-12-2020, 15 01 32.mov?dl=0

VeChain, for example, has massive multinational partners involved including Price Waterhouse Cooper, BMW, Renault, Microsoft, AWS, DHL, Walmart, Louis Vuitton, etc, etc. They have also partnered with researchers at universities including Oxford, Dartmouth and Michigan, and many other industries that includes pharmaceutical companies and hospitals. They will help track the vaccines across the supply chain.

A full list of partners is listed below.

I'm bullish on select crypto's in 2021, but I'm certainly not an oracle so I welcome alternative opinions. However, I'd suggest you all inform yourselves first by doing some proper research into this sector.

 

[Juan]

I know about this, many others have as well, but ask yourself why?

Because you cannot pay at the grocery store with bitcoin hahaha.

 

[Ed209]

Because you cannot pay at the grocery store with bitcoin hahaha.

I pay in cryptos everyday. It's clear you have no idea about this sector. I have a Crypto card backed by Visa which means I can spend any top cryptocurrency anywhere that accepts Visa. That's pretty much anywhere in the world. Next year Paypal are joining in, meaning you will also be able to spend them anywhere that accepts them as well.

People talk and form opinions about cryptocurrencies without having a clue about them. This is common. In the meantime I earn vastly more interest than a bank pays and can spend the cryptos I hold in any shop. I buy my fuel and groceries with my interest.

 

[Ed209]

Because you cannot pay at the grocery store with bitcoin hahaha.

It's actually interesting to note that the average person on the street still believes this. Most don't spend Bitcoin in shops, however, even though anyone can. That's because it's mainly used as a store of value like gold.

Whilst dollars are set for a load of inflation, Bitcoin is fixed. Why do you think institutions are dumping cash there?

What are the fundamental differences between Dollars and Bitcoin? Think about it. They are both intrinsically worthless and are both based on a promise of value. One is backed by the government (centralised), and the other is backed by the people who hold it (decentralised).

 

[Ed209]

One more thing I'd like to add is that we had an excellent opportunity to raise money for the running costs of Tinnitus Talk by downloading and using Brave browser for 30 days. A very easy undertaking that could have earned Tinnitus Talk a cryptocurrency called BAT. The potential was there to make thousands, but only a handful of people joined in which ultimately meant that the idea failed which was a huge shame, in my opinion.

Brave has now withdrawn this promotional offer because they no longer need to offer it as their organic growth is much higher. Many predict that BAT could increase in value by quite a significant margin in the coming years which means that any BAT that Tinnitus Talk may have acquired had the potential to appreciate in value.

 

[Juan]

What are the fundamental differences between Dollars and Bitcoin? Think about it. They are both intrinsically worthless and are both based on a promise of value. One is backed by the government (centralised), and the other is backed by the people who hold it (decentralised).

The difference is that dollars are a reserve currency and the population of countries with weak currencies tend to save in dollars as a safety measure, and bitcoin is just a new invention that cannot be used to buy a loaf of bread, or groceries.

Basically bitcoin is like bad quality money, like restaurants coupons that could only be exchanged on a certain restaurant chain and not in others.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I have shares in Grayscale Bitcoin Trust - GBTC in our trust account - meaning that I can buy and sell, but I can't touch the money just like a retirement account. GBTC trades like a stock and has large volume trading. It's a little down today as gold and silver is higher.

 

[Ed209]

The difference is that dollars are a reserve currency and the population of countries with weak currencies tend to save in dollars as a safety measure, and bitcoin is just a new invention that cannot be used to buy a loaf of bread, or groceries.

Basically, bitcoin is like bad quality money, like restaurants coupons that could only be exchanged on a certain restaurant chain and not in others.

This answer makes no sense whatsoever. Nothing backs the dollar anymore and the same goes for other fiat currencies. The gold standard finished a long time ago. The dollar is printed paper and a promise and that's all. People believe it has a value because the government says it does.

Getting paid for the Buffett name

The Home Capital Group story is an incredible one. In April 2017, a securities regulator accused the Canadian bank of making misleading statements about the quality of its mortgage underwriting, setting off alarm bells for investors and depositors alike.

By June, Home Capital Group was in crisis, as depositors were fleeing the bank. As much as the bank needed liquidity, it also needed credibility -- in a span of just a few short months, 95% of the bank's high-interest savings account deposits left it, according to Fortune.

Buffett's first equity and debt investment were enough to inject confidence into the bank. Almost overnight, its liquidity position improved thanks to Buffett's cachet, and fears over its solvency dissipated. In a testament to how quickly things changed, Home Capital Group relied on Berkshire's credit line for less than one month, repaying it by the end of July 2017. Home Capital shareholders later voted not to allow Berkshire to buy even more of the bank at a discount.

Even though Berkshire would earn only a trivial amount in interest on the loan, it had already exacted a high "fee" in the form of deeply discounted Home Capital Group stock. In roughly one month, Berkshire saw a 53% gain on its Home Capital shares, partly due to the big discount at which it bought the stock and partly due to investors buying up shares on the back of Buffett's investment.

Governments fear cryptocurrencies because they see them as a threat to their centralised control. Venezuela adopted Bitcoin to fight off hyperinflation and it worked:

Crypto-currencies have faced a lot of criticism since Bitcoin first came on the scene 10 years ago. But for one group of people, they're proving very useful.

Venezuela has seen its currency rendered practically valueless after suffering one of the worst periods of hyperinflation since World War Two.

A cup of coffee now costs 2,800 bolivars (21p; 28 cents), up from 0.75 bolivars 12 months ago - an increase of 373,233%, according to Bloomberg data. And that's after a 2018 devaluation that knocked five zeros off the currency.

More than three million Venezuelans have left the country, as essential goods such as toilet paper and medicine have become unaffordable and crime has soared.

If you don't have a good understanding of how currencies work then it's difficult to have a serious conversation about this. There are pros and cons to both.

Right now, cash-rich companies are trading their dollars for Bitcoin to hedge against inflation. Your comparison to a coupon is laughable and again shows your lack of knowledge on it. At the moment it could be argued that the dollar is bad money which is why loads of rich people and companies are currently converting billions of their dollars into Bitcoin. As Michael Saylor put it: "holding large amounts of dollars in today's climate is like watching melting ice cubes."

and bitcoin is just a new invention that cannot be used to buy a loaf of bread, or groceries.

This sentence is incredibly misguided. I've already told you that I can spend Bitcoin anywhere. Why would anyone want to, though? Would you spend gold in a shop on your groceries? That is a like-for-like comparison. Fact is, I can spend Bitcoin and most other top cryptocurrencies anywhere I like right now. It's no different to me spending my country's native pounds - in terms of acceptance - because they are backed by Visa and I can spend them in any shop I want.

If Bitcoin is bad quality money then please define what good quality money is? You do realise that countries around the world are currently printing unprecedented amounts of money? All this quantitative easing devalues our savings and slowly makes the money that's in circulation more and more worthless.

 

[Ed209]

I have shares in Grayscale Bitcoin Trust - GBTC in our trust account - meaning that I can buy and sell, but I can't touch the money just like a retirement account. GBTC trades like a stock and has large volume trading. It's a little down today as gold and silver is higher.

That's a good way to be exposed to Bitcoin without worrying about keys or what wallet to store it in.

 

[Ed209]

If anyone is wondering how you spend cryptocurrencies, then here's one example, there are many more:

https://swipe.io/cards

The idea that you can't spend the top cryptocurrencies is completely false. The perks on all crypto cards are also far better than any FIAT card I know of. The card I've got is with Crypto and I get airport lounge access, a full rebate for Spotify and Netflix, 3% cashback on all purchases, and 10% interest on my balance.

I'm not shilling any of these so please don't sign up to them. I just think the general public are being left behind a little bit as most people still don't understand how it works. Visa back the transactions and soon PayPal will be doing the same. All signs point towards an explosion in adoption in the coming years. All in my opinion, of course.

 

[patorjk]

I pay in cryptos everyday. It's clear you have no idea about this sector. I have a Crypto card backed by Visa which means I can spend any top cryptocurrency anywhere that accepts Visa. That's pretty much anywhere in the world. Next year Paypal are joining in, meaning you will also be able to spend them anywhere that accepts them as well.

People talk and form opinions about cryptocurrencies without having a clue about them. This is common. In the meantime I earn vastly more interest than a bank pays and can spend the cryptos I hold in any shop. I buy my fuel and groceries with my interest.

The volatility is insane. Bitcoin has more than doubled since the beginning of the year. Why would I want to spend it? It was designed as a currency, but it's become a strange type of investment vehicle. These money systems may also have weaknesses we don't know about and could be prone to hacking [1]. Not to mention they can allow criminals to pull off scams where they can extort money without being tracked [*]. And while there's no regulation now, I don't see that lasting forever (especially since mining can have negative effects on the environment due to the amount of power usage involved). And as new and better cryptocurrencies are developed, what happens to the value of the old ones?

I see value in the problems cryptocurrencies are trying to solve, but they are risky products. I remember back in December 2017, when bitcoin was at $18,000, YouTuber Philip DeFranco was going on about how it was the future and how he'd just bought some. That play went very poorly until just recently - and with all of the volatility, who knows what's next.

[*] Though I've heard this is something that may be fixed in future cryptocurrencies.
[1] https://www.technologyreview.com/20...nhackable-blockchains-are-now-getting-hacked/

 

[linearb]

I just think the general public are being left behind a little bit as most people still don't understand how it works.

Or, like me, have PTSD after mining a bunch of crypto and then selling 15 BTC at $35 a pop when I really needed an alternator, and "come on, $35? This is the peak."

I don't have any regrets, it was still free money and I needed to fix the car, and you can't predict these things. Still, if I had held on to that it turns into a year's salary or something and knocks out most of our mortgage, I haven't looked at prices lately but I know they have been around $10,000.

 

[Ed209]

The volatility is insane. Bitcoin has more than doubled since the beginning of the year. Why would I want to spend it? It was designed as a currency, but it's become a strange type of investment vehicle. These money systems may also have weaknesses we don't know about and could be prone to hacking [1]. Not to mention they can allow criminals to pull off scams where they can extort money without being tracked [*]. And while there's no regulation now, I don't see that lasting forever (especially since mining can have negative effects on the environment due to the amount of power usage involved). And as new and better cryptocurrencies are developed, what happens to the value of the old ones?

It's the volatility that drives the gains, though. If you understand how to time the market you can make a fortune on the ups and downs. However, there's no need to trade. If one ignores the volatility and holds long, the gains are unprecedented.

As is stated in this article, Bitcoin has actually been profitable for the majority of its life and continues to be in an up-cycle. The variability during this up-cycle is generally what scares people as it's not for the feint-hearted.

You ask the right questions, though. The power required to mine Bitcoin is insane, which is certainly a negative, and you're right about not wanting the spend it. I said the same thing. Its main purpose in life is as a store of value. In other words, it's a form of digital gold. The criminal thing is a red herring, in my opinion. You hear this a lot, but this argument completely negates the positives and criminals have used cash in all its variations since the dawn of time. Villains using money is nothing new. It's bound to have some form of regulation in the near future; this has been talked about a lot.

As new and better Cryptos are formed, they will have different applications, from useable forms of cash to smart contracts and beyond. They are not all about money. Some can fix some very real problems that exist in the world. Most, however, will go to zero and become worthless. This is probably true of about 98% of the crypto's that are out there.

I see value in the problems cryptocurrencies are trying to solve, but they are risky products. I remember back in December 2017, when bitcoin was at $18,000, YouTuber Philip DeFranco was going on about how it was the future and how he'd just bought some. That play went very poorly until just recently - and with all of the volatility, who knows what's next.

It's the risk that generated all the money I made from my previous investments. Without it, there's no upside, and I tend to gravitate towards very high-risk stocks/assets. Your view on Philip DeFranco's opinion (never heard of him) cannot fully be justified until at least a decade has passed. You cannot judge the outcome of something over such a short window when it comes to investing. That is a traders domain. If Bitcoin goes on to hit $100,000 + then he was right, regardless of if one bought the top in 2017. Bitcoin has actually been in an uptrend for a decade. The drops are irrelevant when viewing the longterm picture.

I understand the criticism, however. I was like many others when it came to Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. I used to think it was all worthless junk. That is until a friend of mine who used to be my investment partner started dabbling in this sector in 2016-17. He has made so much money since then that I could no longer ignore it. He is currently approaching £1,000,000 profit.

Since the crash in March, I extensively researched this market and my opinion changed. There is still a ton of risk associated with it, but that's what I thrive on. Risk + speculation = money. If it ultimately fails - and there's a very real risk of this, I'm not stupid - then I'll happily take the financial hit knowing what the potential rewards were going to be. These type of investments can be potentially life-changing.

 

[Ed209]

I don't have any regrets, it was still free money and I needed to fix the car, and you can't predict these things. Still, if I had held on to that it turns into a year's salary or something and knocks out most of our mortgage, I haven't looked at prices lately but I know they have been around $10,000.

I too have held stocks that could have made me hundreds of thousands more if I'd have waited longer. We cannot think this way, though, as hindsight is 20/20 and a profit is a profit. A friend of mine who is a dentist also had a lot of Bitcoin by today's prices. In 2013, a patient offered to pay him in Bitcoin and he accepted for a laugh. He sold for a modest profit a year or so later. Today it would be worth circa £400,000. It is what it is.

Bitcoin is currently trading in the $18k - $20k range, but I wouldn't rule out a drop to around $14k.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Methods for small caps is to get a pre-market screen news.

Just need some some medical or technology knowledge, but really not much is needed. Need to be logged into trading account and have a buy screen ready for pre-market.

Recent trades, but because of health, I seldom bother to trade.
Bought CRIS pre-market news yesterday under $1.50 - now $7.85
Bought XBIO on alert yesterday @1.25 - now $4.18

On my alert is OCGN at 29 cents - has not moved yet - stock has high volume.
Company has 3 fast track eye disease treatments - partner patents with Mass Eye - Harvard.
There is risk.

 

[Ed209]

On my alert is OCGN at 29 cents - has not moved yet - stock has high volume.
Company has 3 fast track eye disease treatments - partner patents with Mass Eye - Harvard.
There is risk.

Fair play, Greg. As I said, no risk, no (big) reward.

 

[Juan]

This answer makes no sense whatsoever. Nothing backs the dollar anymore and the same goes for other fiat currencies. The gold standard finished a long time ago. The dollar is printed paper and a promise and that's all. People believe it has a value because the government says it does.

Getting paid for the Buffett name

The Home Capital Group story is an incredible one. In April 2017, a securities regulator accused the Canadian bank of making misleading statements about the quality of its mortgage underwriting, setting off alarm bells for investors and depositors alike.

By June, Home Capital Group was in crisis, as depositors were fleeing the bank. As much as the bank needed liquidity, it also needed credibility -- in a span of just a few short months, 95% of the bank's high-interest savings account deposits left it, according to Fortune.

Buffett's first equity and debt investment were enough to inject confidence into the bank. Almost overnight, its liquidity position improved thanks to Buffett's cachet, and fears over its solvency dissipated. In a testament to how quickly things changed, Home Capital Group relied on Berkshire's credit line for less than one month, repaying it by the end of July 2017. Home Capital shareholders later voted not to allow Berkshire to buy even more of the bank at a discount.

Even though Berkshire would earn only a trivial amount in interest on the loan, it had already exacted a high "fee" in the form of deeply discounted Home Capital Group stock. In roughly one month, Berkshire saw a 53% gain on its Home Capital shares, partly due to the big discount at which it bought the stock and partly due to investors buying up shares on the back of Buffett's investment.

Governments fear cryptocurrencies because they see them as a threat to their centralised control. Venezuela adopted Bitcoin to fight off hyperinflation and it worked:

Crypto-currencies have faced a lot of criticism since Bitcoin first came on the scene 10 years ago. But for one group of people, they're proving very useful.

Venezuela has seen its currency rendered practically valueless after suffering one of the worst periods of hyperinflation since World War Two.

A cup of coffee now costs 2,800 bolivars (21p; 28 cents), up from 0.75 bolivars 12 months ago - an increase of 373,233%, according to Bloomberg data. And that's after a 2018 devaluation that knocked five zeros off the currency.

More than three million Venezuelans have left the country, as essential goods such as toilet paper and medicine have become unaffordable and crime has soared.

If you don't have a good understanding of how currencies work then it's difficult to have a serious conversation about this. There are pros and cons to both.

Right now, cash-rich companies are trading their dollars for Bitcoin to hedge against inflation. Your comparison to a coupon is laughable and again shows your lack of knowledge on it. At the moment it could be argued that the dollar is bad money which is why loads of rich people and companies are currently converting billions of their dollars into Bitcoin. As Michael Saylor put it: "holding large amounts of dollars in today's climate is like watching melting ice cubes."

This sentence is incredibly misguided. I've already told you that I can spend Bitcoin anywhere. Why would anyone want to, though? Would you spend gold in a shop on your groceries? That is a like-for-like comparison. Fact is, I can spend Bitcoin and most other top cryptocurrencies anywhere I like right now. It's no different to me spending my country's native pounds - in terms of acceptance - because they are backed by Visa and I can spend them in any shop I want.

If Bitcoin is bad quality money then please define what good quality money is? You do realise that countries around the world are currently printing unprecedented amounts of money? All this quantitative easing devalues our savings and slowly makes the money that's in circulation more and more worthless.

The main problem with bitcoin is just that you cannot use it to pay for anything. Simple as that. Why would I want bitcoins instead of euros or dollars? It is just ridiculous!

 

[Ed209]

The main problem with bitcoin is just that you cannot use it to pay for anything. Simple as that. Why would I want bitcoins instead of euros or dollars? It is just ridiculous!

You're obviously on a windup at this point, so I'll admit, you fooled me the first time.

For the benefit of everyone else who may be interested: dollars are inflationary, meaning they are losing value, especially if you hold a lot in a savings account. At times like these, people traditionally stock up on gold or other assets. Think of Bitcoit as digital gold for a new financial era. The supply is fixed.

 

[Juan]

At times like these, people traditionally stock up on gold or other assets. Think of Bitcoit as digital gold for a new financial era. The supply is fixed.

Why would I want to store something that is worth nothing like bitcoin? Why would I want to store bitcoin if I cannot pay for goods and services for it? Those are pretty simple questions. What's the use of bitcoin if it is supposed to be a means of payment with which you cannot pay?

 

[Ed209]

Why would I want to store something that is worth nothing like bitcoin? Why would I want to store bitcoin if I cannot pay for goods and services for it? Those are pretty simple questions. What's the use of bitcoin if it is supposed to be a means of payment with which you cannot pay?

What is the intrinsic value of precious metals like gold or any fiat currency in the world? Fiat currencies are belief systems that are backed by nothing of any worth. The intrinsic value they carry is worth no more than the paper they are printed on. Central banks have complete control of the supply.

If you are actually being serious and not trolling then what more can I say. This is the third time you've said you can't spend it and because of this your arguments carry no weight at all. I literally thought you were joking, but maybe you're not

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Ed209,

Today: GLSI - Greenwich Life Sciences
$129.93 per share - UP $124.73 per share
+++2398.64%

It was $5 yesterday and traded for a good part of today at $25 - then ZOOM to $130.00 dollars.

 

[Juan]

What is the intrinsic value of precious metals like gold or any fiat currency in the world? Fiat currencies are belief systems that are backed by nothing of any worth. The intrinsic value they carry is worth no more than the paper they are printed on. Central banks have complete control of the supply.

If you are actually being serious and not trolling then what more can I say. This is the third time you've said you can't spend it and because of this your arguments carry no weight at all. I literally thought you were joking, but maybe you're not

The intrinsic value is that you can go shop for groceries with dollars or euros.

I will ask for like the fourth time: can you pay at the grocery store with bitcoin today? What can you buy with bitcoin today? Bitcoin is not accepted anywhere as a means of payment.

 

[ajc]

I will ask for like the fourth time: can you pay at the grocery store with bitcoin today? What can you buy with bitcoin today? Bitcoin is not accepted anywhere as a means of payment.

Few shops accept bitcoin but not many accept gold or silver either.

How dimwitted are you? Maybe you should bow out from this thread before you make yourself more of a fool.

 

[Juan]

Few shops accept bitcoin but not many accept gold or silver either.

How dimwitted are you? Maybe you should bow out from this thread before you make yourself more of a fool.

Well, I think the fools are those who pay real money for an electronic register that says "you own a bitcoin". You actually own nothing, because bitcoins argue to be "money" but cannot be used to pay for anything. It is just a bubble, like the Tulip Bulb bubble that happened in Holland a long time ago. It just makes no sense.

Gold or silver at least can be used to make jewellery. It is a raw material. You cannot be serious comparing gold to bitcoin!

 

[Ed209]

The intrinsic value is that you can go shop for groceries with dollars or euros.

I will ask for like the fourth time: can you pay at the grocery store with bitcoin today? What can you buy with bitcoin today? Bitcoin is not accepted anywhere as a means of payment.

Have you honestly not read any of my responses? I can spend Bitcoin in any shop or business today, right now, and have been able to do this from the first day I bought into the cryptos I hold. For me, it's as easy to spend as my country's native pounds. There is no difference other than it's not in cash form, but I don't really spend cash anyway.

You can exchange Bitcoin for any other currency in the same way you can on Forex. If it was Monopoly money, nobody in their right minds would exchange it for "real" money. Especially when buying millions/billions.

All modern-day currencies are a facade. Bitcoin is no different. It's just a digital facade without the central banks controlling it.

Value is purely derived from what is perceived to be a currency's worth. There isn't an intrinsic value to any of them.

 

[Ed209]

@Ed209,

Today: GLSI - Greenwich Life Sciences
$129.93 per share - UP $124.73 per share
+++2398.64%

It was $5 yesterday and traded for a good part of today at $25 - then ZOOM to $130.00 dollars.

Those are my kind of trades

I used to specialise in small-cap startups that would regularly multibag me profit. I particularly targeted exploratory mining and oil stocks, biotech's, finance oriented stocks, and many others. My portfolio was quite diverse and I did well out of it. As soon as I bought a house and became a "family man" with responsibilities, I stopped, as my wife is risk averse and prefers to know exactly what's going on with our money. COVID-19 changed all that. I told my wife I can make us money if she let me run free again

Bitcoin will always divide opinion; I get that. There are certainly no guarantees and the whole thing could collapse, that is a real possibility, but a vastly diminishing one as more time goes by. It's quite evident that a lot of people don't really understand it or how it works. Blockchains in general will become an important part of the fabric of society and they will change the landscape of various industries. Everything is pointing in this direction. The term blockchain will become a common well known word in the coming years as mass adoption takes place.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Ed209 I miss the tops on CRIS and XBIO. Only had 200 shares each anyways.

Then I started messing around with Grayscale Bitcoin Trust - GBTC for 5 dollar profits which wasn't a good day to be doing that. Most brokerages charge a fee of 6.50 for in and out for GBTC, so I have to clear that when only trading 200 shares.

When I do trade now, it's mostly day trading. Sometimes, I'll trade 100 shares of a popular higher price stock, but nothing over 300 dollars a share. My abdominal aortic aneurysm is enlarging with pain, then with all my mouth conditions, I need to keep stress controlled. So trading only 200 shares of a low price stock is for fun. I can't spend the money anyways. Will leave some to Tinnitus Talk.

 

[Juan]

Have you honestly not read any of my responses? I can spend Bitcoin in any shop or business today, right now, and have been able to do this from the first day I bought into the cryptos I hold. For me, it's as easy to spend as my country's native pounds. There is no difference other than it's not in cash form, but I don't really spend cash anyway.

You can exchange Bitcoin for any other currency in the same way you can on Forex. If it was Monopoly money, nobody in their right minds would exchange it for "real" money. Especially when buying millions/billions.

All modern-day currencies are a facade. Bitcoin is no different. It's just a digital facade without the central banks controlling it.

Value is purely derived from what is perceived to be a currency's worth. There isn't an intrinsic value to any of them.

The value of a currency lies in the trust of people on it and also on the monetary policy of the country "backing" it, in the case of the Eurozone, it is the European Union through the European Central Bank.

In my personal case, I like knowing who is backing a currency, so I trust my euros, which I also use as a means of payment. If I had to buy another currency to diversify "risk" it would be obviously the US dollar. I would not speculate on the Hungarian forint or the Turkish lira just to trade currencies and try to find a benefit on the exchange rate, because for me a currency is basically a means of payment, so the most simple way of dealing with this is owning euros or dollars, which are among the most traded currencies (therefore are very liquid).

So we are looking at:

- Countries and institutions backing a currency
- Trust of people
- Liquidity
- Means of payment

So for me it does not make any sense to own bitcoin because it does not fulfill any of those points on my list better than the euro or the US dollar.

 

[Ed209]

The value of a currency lies in the trust of people on it and also on the monetary policy of the country "backing" it, in the case of the Eurozone, it is the European Union through the European Central Bank.

In my personal case, I like knowing who is backing a currency, so I trust my euros, which I also use as a means of payment. If I had to buy another currency to diversify "risk" it would be obviously the US dollar. I would not speculate on the Hungarian forint or the Turkish lira just to trade currencies and try to find a benefit on the exchange rate, because for me a currency is basically a means of payment, so the most simple way of dealing with this is owning euros or dollars, which are among the most traded currencies (therefore are very liquid).

In my opinion, the Euro was a mistake. It has demonstrated that you cannot just band together a whole heap of independent economies and expect them to work well together as a single currency. Some countries are doing better than others, so they ultimately have to prop up the nations that aren't as well run and who carry larger debts. Italy, for example, is a ticking time bomb. It's a nation that allowed its banking sector to run riot with all kinds of toxic assets and their debts are unsustainable. This has led to bailouts all over the bloc, but the underlying debts are so bad in some countries that it's like putting a plaster over a huge gaping wound. It's a failed project that has continued to be propped up, with possibly Germany taking the brunt of it. The biggest financial rescue of a bankrupt country in history was Greece, and it was saved to prop up the Euro. This keeps happening. How long will it be until it finally collapses under its own weight? Especially now that the coronavirus has run rampant across the continent.

This video is old but gold, so please watch it. The situation they are discussing has become even worse over time and it hilariously demonstrates the absurdity of it all.



I'm not here to tell you how to think and act, though. If you believe in the strength of the Euro then that's absolutely fine. We all see things differently.

I'm also not trying to shill Bitcoin to you. I was just attempting to point out your inaccuracies regarding it, as from my experience, the general public is woefully uninformed.

 

[Juan]

In my opinion, the Euro was a mistake. It has demonstrated that you cannot just band together a whole heap of independent economies and expect them to work well together as a single currency. Some countries are doing better than others, so they ultimately have to prop up the nations that aren't as well run and who carry larger debts. Italy, for example, is a ticking time bomb. It's a nation that allowed its banking sector to run riot with all kinds of toxic assets and their debts are unsustainable. This has led to bailouts all over the bloc, but the underlying debts are so bad in some countries that it's like putting a plaster over a huge gaping wound. It's a failed project that has continued to be propped up, with possibly Germany taking the brunt of it. The biggest financial rescue of a bankrupt country in history was Greece, and it was saved to prop up the Euro. This keeps happening. How long will it be until it finally collapses under its own weight? Especially now that the coronavirus has run rampant across the continent.

This video is old but gold, so please watch it. The situation they are discussing has become even worse over time and it hilariously demonstrates the absurdity of it all.



I'm not here to tell you how to think and act, though. If you believe in the strength of the Euro then that's absolutely fine. We all see things differently.

I'm also not trying to shill Bitcoin to you. I was just attempting to point out your inaccuracies regarding it, as from my experience, the general public is woefully uninformed.

I don't think the monetary policies of the ECB and the Federal Reserve differ much. In both economic areas (EU and US) banks took excessive risks and had to be bailed out.

I think the main risk nowadays lies in complex derivative products and also on the high valuation of the tech companies, valuations that could plummet if they are forced to split up due to antitrust issues or if governments start enforcing their tax laws to make tech companies pay all the money they owe in taxes, which is for the moment being covered up by the rest of the taxpayers.

The taxpayers are paying more taxes because the Silicon Valley billionaires do not pay their taxes.