Suicidal

[Bill Bauer]

If you disable it illegally you will get fined big time the next fire inspection. I'm not sure if one can disable it clandestinely.

It would be worth it.

 

[Zugzug]

I cannot hear the phrase "trust the professionals" without flying into a rage or becoming suicidal. I left every doctor who doubted me during and after my accident a nice message about how much I'm suffering now, and how it's more beneficial to hear patients out instead of accusing them of insanity. Not like it would do much good anyway and I doubt they'll listen, but I'm pretty tired of being stepped on and staying silent.

I am convinced a large percentage of doctors are actual sociopaths. They don't care if their words or maltreatment leave bodies behind. As long as they have their paychecks at the end of the day.

If it makes you feel any better, it is not personal. I've been chronically ill for many years and was dismissed at all times by nearly every doctor. I thought there was something wrong with me. Then I joined a bunch of support groups and saw that it was the norm. I have finally found a doctor that is willing to treat me based on trust. Granted, my disease is really hard to treat so I'm not making massive gains, but I feel believed.

Honestly, I wish more than anything, doctors would at the very least not give bad advice. Like yeah, it really sucks when they look you in the eye and say "I have no idea." It stings hard and I'm sure patients get upset by this as well. But it's nothing compared to putting pride over the safety of a patient.

Relating this to hyperacusis, doctors should not recommend MRIs unless they know, in very precise terms, why. They want to feel like they are doing something, but it's very dangerous.

 

[Contrast]

Buddhists don't believe in the soul and talk about rebirth more than reincarnation, but they also think that most suicides end up with a poor rebirth. However, in Buddhism if there is no soul what is reborn? It's not you any longer, in a way it was not you in the first place, so there's not much to worry about.

Buddhist don't believe in a soul. Eastern concepts view the entire Universe as a super mind. There's no "ghost in the brain that flies away when you die, You just fuse with the Universe's mind and from there it's metaphysics.

 

[Orions Pain]

I cannot hear the phrase "trust the professionals" without flying into a rage or becoming suicidal. I left every doctor who doubted me during and after my accident a nice message about how much I'm suffering now, and how it's more beneficial to hear patients out instead of accusing them of insanity. Not like it would do much good anyway and I doubt they'll listen, but I'm pretty tired of being stepped on and staying silent.

I am convinced a large percentage of doctors are actual sociopaths. They don't care if their words or maltreatment leave bodies behind. As long as they have their paychecks at the end of the day.

Why does no one ever consider that their patient might actually be right? Why is it that when we're sick in whatever way we're wrong by default?

Why is it always "you have anxiety don't read horror stories online"?

 

[Orions Pain]

Honestly, I wish more than anything, doctors would at the very least not give bad advice. Like yeah, it really sucks when they look you in the eye and say "I have no idea." It stings hard and I'm sure patients get upset by this as well. But it's nothing compared to putting pride over the safety of a patient

This!! I saw two ENTs who just gave me pamphlets about tinnitus and sent me on my way. Both told me to try decongestants.

I saw a new primary doctor several months later and during the appointment he kindly told me that unfortunately the medical field just doesn't know much about tinnitus, and he doesn't have any good suggestions and he even said I'm sorry!

I would much rather hear, "I'm sorry we don't have an answer for you" than be sent off for pointless and dangerous tests and spend months and tons of money on allergy meds I didn't even need.

Other support groups are full of people going crazy over their ENT's telling them they refuse to send them for an MRI or other testing so I guess there's also that. Some people don't like hearing that there isn't much that can be done.

Instead of MRIs ENTs should point patients in two directions: upper cervical chiropractors and TMJD specialists. That's what should be ruled out - not a tumor or MS or anything crazy like that without any other symptoms besides tinnitus.

 

[Chinmoku]

Buddhist don't believe in a soul. Eastern concepts view the entire Universe as a super mind. There's no "ghost in the brain that flies away when you die, You just fuse with the Universe's mind and from there it's metaphysics.

There is in Hinduism. Historically, Buddhism was born partly as a protest against Hinduism and the corrupt chaste system. As Hinduism believes in Atman (soul, although the concept is quite different than in Christianity) the Buddha taught Anatman, i.e. the absence of the Atman or soul. This does not deny personality, awareness or mind but denies the existence of an indestructible ghost/imprint associated with each individual. In Hinduism the soul reincarnates , possibly in animals or other higher life forms, depending on one's karma. In Buddhism the ego illusion is perpetuated similarly with rebirths but there is no soul traveling, so it's hard to see any continuity in this process. In Hinduism the final escape is fusion with Brahma as you were saying. In Buddhism it is Nirvana. Both tend to believe that suicide pushes you (or "you" in the case of Buddhism) way back in a much worse reincarnation / rebirth, pushing you further away from Brahma/Nirvana.

 

[Chinmoku]

If it makes you feel any better, it is not personal. I've been chronically ill for many years and was dismissed at all times by nearly every doctor. I thought there was something wrong with me. Then I joined a bunch of support groups and saw that it was the norm. I have finally found a doctor that is willing to treat me based on trust. Granted, my disease is really hard to treat so I'm not making massive gains, but I feel believed.

Honestly, I wish more than anything, doctors would at the very least not give bad advice. Like yeah, it really sucks when they look you in the eye and say "I have no idea." It stings hard and I'm sure patients get upset by this as well. But it's nothing compared to putting pride over the safety of a patient.

Relating this to hyperacusis, doctors should not recommend MRIs unless they know, in very precise terms, why. They want to feel like they are doing something, but it's very dangerous.

From that point of view I have been lucky and always found very humane ENTs and Neurology/Vestibular doctors, except - interestingly - psychiatrists who just don't get it or don't really care. It's just that no doctor can help me. Hopefully they will be more helpful in a few years with new treatments.

 

[Contrast]

This!! I saw two ENTs who just gave me pamphlets about tinnitus and sent me on my way. Both told me to try decongestants.

is this a joke? Don't they know what you are going through?

 

[Orions Pain]

is this a joke? Don't they know what you are going through?

This was at the beginning, over a year ago before any of my additional symptoms kicked in.

 

[funeralcry]

The ENT that I saw barely even spoke English in the first place never mind being helpful with Tinnitus. I think most of them are in the mindset that it is just a noise and don't consider how it can cause someone to mentally deteriorate. It seems like most people on this site have had bad experiences with them.

 

[TrevorSanders]

is this a joke? Don't they know what you are going through?

Doctors are clueless. When my tinnitus first started, I went to the ER the same day. Told them that I had tinnitus and muffled hearing, and they sent me on my way with a nasal decongestant. Thinking back on it, if they knew what they were doing and prescribed me prednisone, I wouldn't be in this situation.

 

[Shizune]

If it makes you feel any better, it is not personal. I've been chronically ill for many years and was dismissed at all times by nearly every doctor. I thought there was something wrong with me. Then I joined a bunch of support groups and saw that it was the norm. I have finally found a doctor that is willing to treat me based on trust. Granted, my disease is really hard to treat so I'm not making massive gains, but I feel believed.

To be fair it wasn't so much of an "I don't know", it was general rudeness and questioning my sanity, at least from a few. I respect the ones that can admit they don't know but these people just destroyed me from the inside out.

First was one of the ER doctors I saw when I had my accident, who straight up told me "I don't care" when I tried to tell him what chemicals I inhaled. I wasn't dying of COVID-19 so I was just a crazy thorn in his side.

Secondly was a crackpot psychiatrist who accused me of being a lazy hypochondriac because I was bed bound for most of my days after not being able to breathe. Offered me Ritalin of all things and other questionable substances without explaining shit to me.

Thirdly was a horrible neurologist who from the get-go questioned my hyperacusis as if it were a police interrogation because I phrased something a bit strangely. (Decreased tolerance to sound/increased sensitivity). Was snarky, rude, asked me "If you know so better then why are you here" sided with my crackpot psychiatrist, despite him never knowing my true self before my accident. (That's where her utterance of 'trust the professionals' came in). And then had the audacity to accuse me of "violent behavior" and said she felt "unsafe" after I put my hands on my head in exasperation after being told "it's anxiety". I had never wanted to jump in front of a train after a doctor's appointment until then.

I had another neurologist who was cool, listened to me, but he didn't really believe in H either and attributed it to migraines. I still appreciate his honesty though.

Funny enough, I went to an ENT within days of my incident but it was before my hyperacusis and tinnitus kicked in so it was just for throat stuff. Joined Tinnitus Talk and several hyperacusis outlets and now know better than to waste my time with it. Pulmonologist I saw actually did look in my ears when I mentioned the burning but I mean, what good does looking into the canal even do?

I think there's a big difference between an "I don't know" and being belittled, and it's this kind of stuff that makes people avoid doctors for years and years until it's too late (I'll probably end up in this category to be honest). Having a history of depression or any sort of mental illness and seeking a neurologist's care is like applying to a job with a felony on your record. That comes first and foremost and everything you do or say is gonna be attributed solely to that.

I'm really glad you found someone who listens to you and is at least trying to help treat you though. I think those people are few and far between, so you are extraordinarily lucky. I always thought doctors should be problem solvers first and foremost, but I think my bias from growing up where I did romanticized the view a bit more. Hard smack of reality for sure.

 

[dan]

Clandestinely, I meant.

Alternatively, grab a step latter, a screw gun, and literally smother the thing in foam and cloth and screw it down.

This is an issue that can be solved as opposed to cochlear damage, right?

Take care dan, I admire that you have retained your sense of humor and compassion despite your debilitating tinnitus and hyperacusis. Maybe some suffers have a genetic personality predisposition that leads to this.

In Ontario it's a crime against humanity to tamper with a fire alarm, even in your own dwelling... oh well just trying to help out @PeteJ.

 

[Kriszti]

The ENT that I saw barely even spoke English in the first place never mind being helpful with Tinnitus. I think most of them are in the mindset that it is just a noise and don't consider how it can cause someone to mentally deteriorate. It seems like most people on this site have had bad experiences with them.

There is a thread here where members were asked what we would tell our ENTs to receive better care. And it definitely seems that most of us have bad, even traumatic experience with ENTs and audiologists.

 

[Zugzug]

Having a history of depression or any sort of mental illness and seeking a neurologist's care is like applying to a job with a felony on your record. That comes first and foremost and everything you do or say is gonna be attributed solely to that.

This quote rings so true to me and is such a massive source of frustration. I do, independent of my physical problems, suffer from diagnosed, but clinically mild mental health problems. Of course, at this stage, my hyperacusis has been so severe for so long that I also suffer from major depression.

In the early days I was a fool. I went to the doctor and explained that I was anxious over my health problems, etc. Big fucking mistake. That was their out and 90% of them took it. I now learned to either downplay the depression (which I shouldn't have to) or really, really emphasize that the symptoms are causing the depression.

And to be clear, of course, I am not saying clinically significant depression isn't a really a medical problem. It's just a different medical problem. The equivalent would be someone with clinical depression going to a psychiatrist and them saying that what they really have is leg pain, but they're just not talking about it.

Like no. The insult is not saying I have a mental health problem. The insult is saying I'm too stupid to know my own body. Moreover, these doctors are passive aggressively accusing the patient of being a mental health denier. It's just bad around. Bad for the patient. Bad for depression. Bad, bad bad.

 

[Contrast]

with rebirths but there is no soul traveling, so it's hard to see any continuity in this process.

From what I understand, certain Eastern concepts are saying we are tiny temporary fragmented sectors of one universal mind.


Quotes like "we are all one" & separation is an illusion, are inspired by this Buddhist concept.

 

[BuzzyBee]

From that point of view I have been lucky and always found very humane ENTs and Neurology/Vestibular doctors, except - interestingly - psychiatrists who just don't get it or don't really care. It's just that no doctor can help me. Hopefully they will be more helpful in a few years with new treatments.

Yes, I think they like treating things that can be fixed and tinnitus just doesn't fall into that category yet. Hopefully that will change. I'm surprised to hear so many bad experiences with ENTs and sorry that some of you were treated so poorly. It's one thing not to be able to help someone, but another to be unkind and uncaring.

 

[ASilverLight]

My ENT didn't listen to any of other symptoms, told me I should be happy about my perfect standard heating test and told me that I "must have been scared by a noise sometime". Less than five minutes in her office. Glad my mum was with me because I don't know what I would've done if it wasn't for her waiting outside the door.

I also got told that neck issues can never cause tinnitus, despite other doctors telling me differently.

She also laughed at me being so severely distressed and dismissed the idea of reactive tinnitus entirely.

Again, I'm happy I was with someone that day. Several months later and I'm still mad.

 

[Chinmoku]

From what I understand, certain Eastern concepts are saying we are tiny temporary fragmented sectors of one universal mind.

Quotes like "we are all one" & separation is an illusion, are inspired by this Buddhist concept.

Yes, Buddhists contemplate interconnectedness off all things, some even use the term "interbeing".

 

[Shizune]

Well with another stroke of misfortune, it now seems I have pain hyperacusis in my left ear. I've been getting worse out of nowhere lately and was hoping it would never come to this. I was trying to ride the hope wave of "at least it's only loudness" for as long as I could. It seems most people eventually transition from loudness to pain, that I have seen. Guess it was only a matter of time.

I have to take a 15 hour drive to my new home in just two weeks. I am terrified of whats to come or the damage I'll sustain from that. If I can live a mostly silent, protected lifestyle and still get setbacks from virtually nothing, then I can't imagine what will happen with constant road noise. I don't want the ceiling getting lower than it already is. It seems like no matter what moves I make, they are the incorrect ones, because my ears and my body just want to do what they want. I don't want to live knowing this can only get worse.

 

[PeteJ]

Well with another stroke of misfortune, it now seems I have pain hyperacusis in my left ear. I've been getting worse out of nowhere lately and was hoping it would never come to this. I was trying to ride the hope wave of "at least it's only loudness" for as long as I could. It seems most people eventually transition from loudness to pain, that I have seen. Guess it was only a matter of time.

I have to take a 15 hour drive to my new home in just two weeks. I am terrified of whats to come or the damage I'll sustain from that. If I can live a mostly silent, protected lifestyle and still get setbacks from virtually nothing, then I can't imagine what will happen with constant road noise. I don't want the ceiling getting lower than it already is. It seems like no matter what moves I make, they are the incorrect ones, because my ears and my body just want to do what they want. I don't want to live knowing this can only get worse.

Buy some industrial ear muffs. Tractor trailers and ambulance sirens are loud even when the windows are closed.

Take the 2 weeks time and find comfortable ear plugs. Pretend it's a work shift at a factory. In ears for 1.5 hours, out for 20 minutes break. Repeat. Have two 30-minute breaks with no plugs. Break up the time so you give your canals a break. If you don't have a problem wearing plugs, some amount of time wearing them will give your ears a break from the road noise.

I don't know what vehicle you drive but many new ones have decent sound proofing.

Just some ideas.

 

[Shizune]

Buy some industrial ear muffs. Tractor trailers and ambulance sirens are loud even when the windows are closed.

Take the 2 weeks time and find comfortable ear plugs. Pretend it's a work shift at a factory. In ears for 1.5 hours, out for 20 minutes break. Repeat. Have two 30-minute breaks with no plugs. Break up the time so you give your canals a break. If you don't have a problem wearing plugs, some amount of time wearing them will give your ears a break from the road noise.

I don't know what vehicle you drive but many new ones have decent sound proofing.

Just some ideas.

I wear muffs and plugs pretty much 24/7 as is. They've begun to wear and tear so I'm going to get some new ones. I had no issue with road noise before, although I haven't driven much since my hyperacusis worsened. Who knows now.

I have gotten contradictory advice about driving with protection. Some say occlusion and bone conduction occurs due to vibration from the road into the car, only grabbing muffs if you go by a motorcycle or other loud vehicle. Others say the road is too loud and risky so double protection should be used. What is your opinion on this, or occlusion/conduction in general?

I think taking breaks like you said may be good. I'm pretty scared that regardless I'm just going to set in the damage since it's such a long drive, but I got no choice. Rather live somewhere quiet than this overly-populated hellhole.

 

[PeteJ]

I wear muffs and plugs pretty much 24/7 as is. They've begun to wear and tear so I'm going to get some new ones. I had no issue with road noise before, although I haven't driven much since my hyperacusis worsened. Who knows now.

I have gotten contradictory advice about driving with protection. Some say occlusion and bone conduction occurs due to vibration from the road into the car, only grabbing muffs if you go by a motorcycle or other loud vehicle. Others say the road is too loud and risky so double protection should be used. What is your opinion on this, or occlusion/conduction in general?

I think taking breaks like you said may be good. I'm pretty scared that regardless I'm just going to set in the damage since it's such a long drive, but I got no choice. Rather live somewhere quiet than this overly-populated hellhole.

You didn't say what vehicle you will be driving?

You said you haven't driven much. I doubt your tinnitus would worsen. Maybe a spike but if you wear hearing protection for part of the trip, you will probably be fine. I am only speculating and trying to use common sense in my assessment. Everyone is different but I find it difficult to believe someone will worsen tinnitus or hyperacusis from one day of driving.

I don't think 'double protection' will help and I think it's overkill. Your ears and/or ear canals might get sore if you do that over a long trip.

If you have a loud vehicle with a loud muffler, for e.g., then I will think differently or if you have a car lower to the road which can mean more road noise (going in the cabin).

I think a few breaks from wearing hearing protection and even pulling over to a truck stop or to a park might be good, a few times over the 15 hrs might help.

I would be more concerned about vehicles with sirens or loud trucks that drive near you. I got significant ear pain from a truck driver using the air brakes. I was outside though. But, a truck driver slamming on their air brakes beside you in traffic will probably be pretty loud even if you have the windows closed.

 

[Tanni]

It I could press a button and end it all now I would.

That's exactly how I used to describe my situation to Doctors when I was suicidal. That exact wording.

The worst thing about any chronic, invisible illness/disability is that patients are continuously gaslighted and blamed for their own illness. I've lost count of how many times I was told by multiple Doctors that I was causing my symptoms by being anxious about them (?!?).

Even if your issues are psychosomatic (around 60% of all queries at the GP surgery are, apparently, so it's not as if this is an issue that a small number of 'defective' people have - it's a huge, global problem that is very poorly understood), that doesn't mean that it's made up, in your head, or caused by you. The symptoms you are experiencing are real.

I think we need to be firm and consistent when explaining symptoms to a Doctor. Don't let them dismiss you, or tell you that you need to just 'stop worrying'. They need to either try to help us, or tell us honestly that they can't.

 

[Contrast]

I have no faith in the medical system, and I wonder to myself: WHAT THE HELL GOES ON INSIDE ACADEMIC CIRCLES? WHY ARE DOCTORS SO STEREOTYPICAL?! We are dealing with a system of arm chair rulers that don't care about science. Like seriously, not many scientific papers are published on the bullshit that suffering patients go through. I have seen some papers that mention doctors mislabelling diseases as psychogenic, but for the most part this stuff doesn't make it's way to Academic papers. Despite us hearing it all the time on the support groups. Common controversies include being told "it's all in your head" psychosomatic diagnosis, and psychiatric drug recommendation for physical health problems, or taking a year or more to get a diagnosis. The whole dismissal of chronic disease patients is something that appears extremely common, yet in the medical academic world, everyone is silent on it. No one wants to say anything, or put your grants at risk.

Don't they know what the hell goes on? It's like they are isolated from the reality of the sufferer's lives, all while doing their arm chair policy making.

 

[weab00]

There's no way I'll be eternally punished in whatever way for killing myself to get relief from this misery right? Chronic pain really has a way of making you feel like life is a game. Horrific pain, no answers from the medical community. Not only "no answers" but the general reaction is "you're lying that's not possible". No sympathy from anyone, no relief, just constant torture. If I have to stare at the same 4 walls for one more day while dealing with this screeching and burning I might just drive off of a bridge. Stupid survival instinct

You'll probably just cease to exist, so no more suffering but no more potential for joy. Hell from suicide was just a concept invented by the Catholic church during the dark ages to stop people from killing themselves for a direct ticket to heaven, everything is fear mongering. I'mma just hold out for the medicine, praying to hell it cures noxacusis.

My existence is also meaningless right now. Sick of people assuming we're making it up for some reason, as if this is the reality we want.

 

[twa]

Yes but it's not as easy as it sounds. Oral steroids have very little penetrance even at high doses and IT steroids apparently have a polarity issue that make them highly variable in effectiveness (Otonomy is working on this with their Otividex drug in phase 3 for Meniere's).

Some people have improvement with anti-inflammatory diets and supplements but I think for a lot of us here we need more than that. Antioxidants and an anti-inflammatory diet are definitely worth a try.

Especially acutely, I would try steroids too. Beyond that we are looking at drugs that haven't been released yet.

Both the Hough Ear Institute Pill and Ebselen (Sound Pharmaceuticals' drug) are technically available if you have the money (the latter is much cheaper than the former) to pay a research lab to make it and are willing to be a guinea pig.

I started the Autoimmune Protocol/AIP (Autoimmune Paleo for inflammation) diet when I was diagnosed 9 weeks ago. I've had slight improvements in inflammation in my ears. I was waking up every morning with fullness and muffled feeling, which has improved. The tinnitus is the same level. I will keep going and report back at 3 months.

 

[funeralcry]

I think it would be better if all tinnitus was objective, so that everyone around a person could hear the tones too. Then other people would stop saying it is an mental problem. I think the best way to describe this condition is an portal to hell, people are sucked in deeper and deeper depending on the severity. People with mild in just a split second can easily be dragged deeper down. I just think people need to experience it to understand it, which is why it isn't taken seriously.

 

[Contrast]

You'll probably just cease to exist, so no more suffering but no more potential for joy. Hell from suicide was just a concept invented by the Catholic church during the dark ages to stop people from killing themselves for a direct ticket to heaven, everything is fear mongering. I'mma just hold out for the medicine, praying to hell it cures noxacusis.

My existence is also meaningless right now. Sick of people assuming we're making it up for some reason, as if this is the reality we want.

Hellish realms of extremely long duration came from Eastern religions, including Buddhist cosmology. But it wasn't until Christianity showed up that a truly eternal hell came into existence. Christianity rejects a cyclic universe, so in Buddhism under the worst circumstances (from living an extremely violent life, or series of lives) you can end up in hell until the heat death of the Universe, but eventually the Universe resets and you are out. Not exactly that comforting, lol. Once again it's much harder to end up in hell in Eastern Religions then Christianity. Most Christians and some Muslim sects believe an eternal hell awaits simply not for believing. Finally, if the nature of the Universe is mind-like, as opposed to being mechanical and material. Their could be grains of truth to these ancient claims, because if the Universe is a cosmic mind (as opposed to being dead matter), there can be cosmic mental realms of pleasure, pain and everything in between.

 

[Chinmoku]

Hellish realms of extremely long duration came from Eastern religions, including Buddhist cosmology. But it wasn't until Christianity showed up that a truly eternal hell came into existence. Christianity rejects a cyclic universe, so in Buddhism under the worst circumstances (from living an extremely violent life, or series of lives) you can end up in hell until the heat death of the Universe, but eventually the Universe resets and you are out. Not exactly that comforting, lol. Once again it's much harder to end up in hell in Eastern Religions then Christianity. Most Christians and some Muslim sects believe an eternal hell awaits simply not for believing. Finally, if the nature of the Universe is mind-like, as opposed to being mechanical and material. Their could be grains of truth to these ancient claims, because if the Universe is a cosmic mind (as opposed to being dead matter), there can be cosmic mental realms of pleasure, pain and everything in between.

In the bible there are so many notions of hell, but as I wrote in my long post above about Apocatastasis, the eternal hell is a creation of the later church, made fixed and fully confirmed by St Augustine. However, St Augustine did not know Greek and his understanding of the bible was not on par with some of the fathers who had a rather different view of Hell earlier, like Origen or Gregory, who thought hell was temporary.

Look at the old testament. The only "hell" there is "Sheol" (translated in Greek with Hades), and scripture defines Sheol as:
- where people "make their bed" (Job 17:13)
- a place of peace (1 Kings 2:6)
- there is no knowledge or device or sound in Sheol (Ecc 9)
- God is in Sheol (Psalm 139:8)
- the people in Sheol are dead (Ecc 9)
- people can be redeemed from Sheol (Hosea 13:14,Psalm 49:15)
- Sheol will be destroyed (Hosea 13:14)
- Sheol will have NO victory (1 Cor 15:55 - speaking of hades which is Greek for Sheol).
(from the discussion here).

So Sheol is not a place of eternal torment. Jesus talked about hell as Gehenna, that was a trash dump outside Jerusalem. There are parts where it looks like Gehenna might be eternal and parts where it is not, so it's not clear. There is also Tartarus, which is mentioned only once, but it seems to be reserved to rebel angels and not humans.

Direct evidence for eternal punishment in a lake of fire in the bible is not that strong. There are other options that are as strong: total annihilation of wicked souls, so end of existence and no more suffering, or total restoration of God's realm with Hell being emptied after everyone has served a corrective period (longer or shorter depending on the curriculum) and everyone being saved eventually (Apocatastasis): "And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began". Without total final restoration, God's creation fails, and Origen's theology was against this. St Augustine was instead ok with the lake of fire and actually went much further, with a theory of predestination where God has decided at time 0 whether you go to hell or not and there is nothing you can do about it. That is totally at odds with so many Christian values that I'm surprised he was not criticized more widely for it, while poor Origen was made heretic. Problem with the Bible is that the interpretation is based on the theology one has in the head when reading it. The bible alone does not define a full theology, indeed we have Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Mormons, all understanding the text differently.

Similar problems affect biblical interpretation of suicide. It's not condemned explicitly in the bible. Again, condemnation came much later from St. Augustine.

Buddhists say that if you commit suicide you are very likely to end up reborn in one of the hellish realms Contrast was talking about. Not a good perspective, but as there is no soul in Buddhism this does not worry me too much, it would be the illusion of the ego-self that transfers into a new aggregate in a hellish realm but it wouldn't be the same person, there would be no memory, so...

More realistically, who knows what happens outside spacetime if anything? Who knows if consciousness can escape spacetime and all these Bible/Buddhist descriptions are attempts at allegory to describe something that is not possible to express in human language. This is a mysterian position but given the hard problem of consciousness perhaps it's not so wrong.