Suicidal

[PeteJ]

But is depression still mechanically the same whether it's caused by tinnitus or by a divorce or loss, etc?

Mental Health professionals might argue serotonin levels are too low and SSRIs are one treatment that might address that. But, if there is a physical connection or link to the depression or causing the depression then medication either won't work or will be a temporary help because the main problem is not being addressed. At least, I think this is the case for most people or when tinnitus (volume) is severe.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

PeteJ is entirely correct. With a total absence of any real remedy, the only recourse a psychiatrist has is to zonk you with enough drugs so that you are stupefied into not caring about the condition. Most crises that trigger intense anxiety or depression (abusive treatment on a job, divorce, loneliness, etc.) can at least be partially remedied by external change. Tinnitus resembles a granitic boulder in the consciousness that cannot be budged; such drugs only temporarily induce a counterfeit habituation.

 

[Pulsing Ear]

I'm glad my tinnitus isn't loud enough to ruin my life. I can totally understand how it feels though. My myoclonus was really bad a few weeks ago. That and the tinnitus combined was horrible. Then my heart got stuck in ventricular tachycardia and I had to get defibrillated. So many problems all going on at the same time. I have trouble with esosinophilic esophagitis too, and one night I couldn't swallow anything. Had to throw up. Life can always get worse.

If the tinnitus gets bad enough, has anyone ever had the auditory nerve severed? That would stop it all but you'd be permanently deaf. Hard to imagine wanting to do it or finding a surgeon willing to do the surgery.

 

[ajc]

If the tinnitus gets bad enough, has anyone ever had the auditory nerve severed? That would stop it all but you'd be permanently deaf. Hard to imagine wanting to do it or finding a surgeon willing to do the surgery.

You are wrong. There are studies showing that tinnitus remains in about 50% of cases where the auditory nerve is severed.

Hence tinnitus is a brain condition.

 

[Pulsing Ear]

You are wrong. There are studies showing that tinnitus remains in about 50% of cases where the auditory nerve is severed.

Hence tinnitus is a brain condition.

Really? That makes no sense to me. If that's the case, then in some people the problem lies in the temporal lobe of the brain itself and has little to do with the ear apparatus.

Do you have any links for us to read? I'd really like to see that. Contradicts what I thought.

That also means there have been a good number of doctors willing to do the surgery. Maybe some of the cases involved severing of the nerve because of some other unrelated reason?

 

[ajc]

Really? That makes no sense to me. If that's the case, then in some people the problem lies in the temporal lobe of the brain itself and has little to do with the ear apparatus.

Do you have any links for us to read? I'd really like to see that. Contradicts what I thought.

That also means there have been a good number of doctors willing to do the surgery. Maybe some of the cases involved severing of the nerve because of some other unrelated reason?

Link:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6915835/

After surgical removal of acoustic tumours with excision of the auditory nerve in 414 patients, only 40% reported improvement in their tinnitus. Of 68 patients undergoing translabyrinthine eighth nerve section, 60 (80%) had tinnitus preoperatively. Improvement occurred in 45%, while 55% reported the condition to be the same or worse.

 

[Pulsing Ear]

Link:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6915835/

After surgical removal of acoustic tumours with excision of the auditory nerve in 414 patients, only 40% reported improvement in their tinnitus. Of 68 patients undergoing translabyrinthine eighth nerve section, 60 (80%) had tinnitus preoperatively. Improvement occurred in 45%, while 55% reported the condition to be the same or worse.

Thanks! The article says that the cochlear implant seems to be the way to go. I'd also think that almost all cases of the 8th cranial nerve being severed resulted from surgery for things like tumors. So a majority of patients had no improvement.

I wonder if scientists have any idea how this works. It's as if something in the ear stimulates changes in the brain that are somewhat permanent.

I wonder if there are any cases of people born deaf having tinnitus!? That would be most unfortunate.

 

[Contrast]

I was thinking the forum could get together and do something fun like publish a parody Academic paper that makes all the stereotypical ignorant assumptions that Jastreboff, Hashir, and Leigh promote.

Topics can include that the tonal audiogram being perfect, sociology studies being the holy grail that need more funding, TRT curing hyperacusis, MRI's to detect hearing damage, any unknown disorder is psychosomatic, anti depressants solving everything, and behavioral therapist discussing their new spin-off of CBT.

I swear to God, The only thing that makes me not suicidal is the comedy value of all of this.

 

[Zugzug]

I was thinking the forum could get together and do something fun like publish a parody Academic paper that makes all the stereotypical ignorant assumptions that Jastreboff, Hashir, and Leigh promote

Leigh could be a co-author. His contributions would be copy pasting posts from the forum. Sorry, Leigh, no hard feelings I am kidding.

 

[Kriszti]

Thanks! The article says that the cochlear implant seems to be the way to go. I'd also think that almost all cases of the 8th cranial nerve being severed resulted from surgery for things like tumors. So a majority of patients had no improvement.

I wonder if scientists have any idea how this works. It's as if something in the ear stimulates changes in the brain that are somewhat permanent.

I wonder if there are any cases of people born deaf having tinnitus!? That would be most unfortunate.

Science actually has lots of ideas about how tinnitus is connected to the brain. In the Research News section there are academic papers collected, and members discussing possible future treatment options. Tinnitus Hub has a Tinnitus Talk Podcast and on its YouTube channel there are interviews with researchers ranging from Jastreboff to Susan Shore.

 

[PeteJ]

Really? That makes no sense to me. If that's the case, then in some people the problem lies in the temporal lobe of the brain itself and has little to do with the ear apparatus.

Do you have any links for us to read? I'd really like to see that. Contradicts what I thought.

That also means there have been a good number of doctors willing to do the surgery. Maybe some of the cases involved severing of the nerve because of some other unrelated reason?

I believe I read on here people talking about tinnitus involving hearing loss and higher frequencies. Also, a relationship between the brain and hearing (actually, involving the brain and the ear 'apparatus' as you might call it?). If the inner ear is damaged and nerve cells & the cochlea etc. isn't functioning as it should, I think the idea is the brain 'panics' and 'retries' to process the sound. It continues to fail repeatedly and this is shown in the form of tinnitus? Some experts described it as a system that won't turn off?

This layman's explanation isn't good but I think both the brain and ears (inner ear) is involved.

You can often recognize a relationship on here between hearing loss and tinnitus, whether it's hidden hearing loss or the one measured on an audiogram, there is inner ear damage and the brain trying to deal with it.

I would speculate that severing the auditory nerve won't help because the brain is still trying to 'locate' sound, maybe the higher frequencies, that still aren't there (obviously).

Someone who is born deaf won't have tinnitus because their brain never processed sound so it never 'learned' to 'expect' sound and never 'lost it' to begin with?

Not a good explanation by any means but I wonder if researchers would think any of that is close to being 'right?'

 

[Contrast]

Leigh could be a co-author. His contributions would be copy pasting posts from the forum. Sorry, Leigh, no hard feelings I am kidding.

You don't have to apologize. Apologizing is for cucks. For example, The alter loves to say offensive things about religious and spiritual people. He doesn't care who he offends.

 

[Pulsing Ear]

There seems to be some neural communication both afferent and efferent between the brain and the organs in the ear. I think this explains why people like me also suffer from myoclonus in the middle ear muscles.

 

[Sevv]

I was thinking the forum could get together and do something fun like publish a parody Academic paper that makes all the stereotypical ignorant assumptions that Jastreboff, Hashir, and Leigh promote.

Topics can include that the tonal audiogram being perfect, sociology studies being the holy grail that need more funding, TRT curing hyperacusis, MRI's to detect hearing damage, any unknown disorder is psychosomatic, anti depressants solving everything, and behavioral therapist discussing their new spin-off of CBT.

I swear to God, The only thing that makes me not suicidal is the comedy value of all of this.

I'm thinking more of nasty satirical strips.

Panel 1: Patient to the doctor: "Doctor, I went to a loud concert and now my ears are ringing. It's really depressing me!"
Panel 2: Doctor: "No problem! Let's just quick do this really loud MRI test to rule out other factors."
Panel 3: Shows the patient in panic, holding his hands over his ears that now ring like crazy and holding the expensive bill of the doctor in his hands.

Another one:

Row 1: Title "How doctors should counsel tinnitus patients"
Panel 1: Patient to the doctor: "Doctor, I have really loud ringing in my ears. It's driving me crazy. I can't sleep, I can't think of anything else."
Panel 2: Doctor: "Don't worry. Statistics show that in most cases it goes down or even goes away completely. If it doesn't, there's still a very good chance you get so used to it that it feels normal and you'll have your life back, even if the first months are going to be tough. And if all doesn't help, research has come a long way!
Panel 3: Patient: "Thank you doctor! That really helped me to calm down. I'm much more optimistic now!"

Row 2: Title "The reality"
Panel 1: Patient to the doctor: "Doctor, I have really loud ringing in my ears. It's driving me crazy. I can't sleep, I can't think of anything else."
Panel 2: Doctor: "Just learn to live with it. I can't help you. Here's your bill."
Panel 3: Patient commits suicide.

Man my own satire is nastier and tougher to swallow than anything I've read before.

 

[FGG]

I believe I read on here people talking about tinnitus involving hearing loss and higher frequencies. Also, a relationship between the brain and hearing (actually, involving the brain and the ear 'apparatus' as you might call it?). If the inner ear is damaged and nerve cells & the cochlea etc. isn't functioning as it should, I think the idea is the brain 'panics' and 'retries' to process the sound. It continues to fail repeatedly and this is shown in the form of tinnitus? Some experts described it as a system that won't turn off?

This layman's explanation isn't good but I think both the brain and ears (inner ear) is involved.

You can often recognize a relationship on here between hearing loss and tinnitus, whether it's hidden hearing loss or the one measured on an audiogram, there is inner ear damage and the brain trying to deal with it.

I would speculate that severing the auditory nerve won't help because the brain is still trying to 'locate' sound, maybe the higher frequencies, that still aren't there (obviously).

Someone who is born deaf won't have tinnitus because their brain never processed sound so it never 'learned' to 'expect' sound and never 'lost it' to begin with?

Not a good explanation by any means but I wonder if researchers would think any of that is close to being 'right?'

This is a pretty good basic explanation of it.

I would add to think of it like Phantom Limb (tinnitus is "phantom cochlea"), @Pulsing Ear. If you were born without limbs your brain wouldn't be used to having them.

People have had their whole cochleas removed (i.e. from cancer) still have tinnitus. You can't fix phantom limb syndrome with more amputation, either.

On the other hand, when there are treatable causes of auditory interferences, the tinnitus subsides. And I suspect when the optogenetic (versus crude electric based ones which only hit frequencies at intervals) cochlear implants come out, they would be even better for tinnitus. Regenerative drugs will probably beat those to market, though as those are about 5 years out.

 

[TrevorSanders]

Row 2: Title "The reality"
Panel 1: Patient to the doctor: "Doctor, I have really loud ringing in my ears. It's driving me crazy. I can't sleep, I can't think of anything else."
Panel 2: Doctor: "Just learn to live with it. I can't help you. Here's your bill."
Panel 3: Patient commits suicide.

Sums up my experience so far. Suicide tbd.

 

[Bartoli]

And I suspect when the optogenetic (versus crude electric based ones which only hit frequencies at intervals) cochlear implants come out, they would be even better for tinnitus. Regenerative drugs will probably beat those to market, though as those are about 5 years out.

Can you ELI5 how the optogenetic CIs work? Would they work in tandem with the residual hearing?

 

[__nico__]

Every day forward I just want to kill myself more.

 

[FGG]

Can you ELI5 how the optogenetic CIs work? Would they work in tandem with the residual hearing?

This explains it better than I ever could:

Towards the optical cochlear implant: optogenetic approaches for hearing restoration

I'm not sure if they will (at least initially) make them have customizable ranges to exclude normal areas. It might not be an initial feature at least.

 

[Snake]

I hate my life.

 

[Pulsing Ear]

Every day forward I just want to kill myself more.

Do you feel like the whole COVID-19 situation has made it worse? I'm going to guess you have been dealing with your ear problems for more than 1 year.

Have things gotten worse since the lockdown?

 

[__nico__]

Do you feel like the whole COVID-19 situation has made it worse? I'm going to guess you have been dealing with your ear problems for more than 1 year.

Have things gotten worse since the lockdown?

I've had tinnitus for years but today marks 1 month since I've lost music due to hyperacusis.

Honestly if I'm not better by February I'm seriously offing myself.

 

[Shizune]

We haven't lost any of the members in this thread to suicide have we? It scares me to read how some on here describe how they might actually be considering it. Do the members on here have a phone number or way to contact others for help? When I was in college I was good friends with a girl that had tried suicide several times but was unsuccessful. She later volunteered for a suicide hotline where people could call for help. It would be really nice if there was one for people suffering from tinnitus and thinking about suicide.

I attempted on Christmas but chickened out lol.

There are some crisis counseling websites that use chat windows instead of using a phone, which could help. But I think suicide hotlines personally are a joke. As with most therapy. It's all the same methods. Repeating back what's wrong with you, saying "that must make you feel pretty darn lousy, huh?"

I guess for some, talking about things can make them feel better. But when you just talk about it constantly and realize talking is the only thing you can do, you can't help but get a bit jaded when there's no solution.

And, as was mentioned in this thread before, god forbid you mention you're sad or anxious in any way involving this. People will stick to that like glue.

I've had tinnitus for years but today marks 1 month since I've lost music due to hyperacusis.

Honestly if I'm not better by February I'm seriously offing myself.

It sucks. But don't throw in the towel just yet. Let's see what results come for the next few months in terms of drugs in the pipeline. Plus you're still very early on and there's no way to know things won't even out.

 

[Pulsing Ear]

I've had tinnitus for years but today marks 1 month since I've lost music due to hyperacusis.

Honestly if I'm not better by February I'm seriously offing myself.

Man that would be hard on me too. I'm an audiophile with a nice set of Martin Logan electrostats.

I attempted on Christmas but chickened out lol.

There are some crisis counseling websites that use chat windows instead of using a phone, which could help. But I think suicide hotlines personally are a joke. As with most therapy. It's all the same methods. Repeating back what's wrong with you, saying "that must make you feel pretty darn lousy, huh?"

I guess for some, talking about things can make them feel better. But when you just talk about it constantly and realize talking is the only thing you can do, you can't help but get a bit jaded when there's no solution.

And, as was mentioned in this thread before, god forbid you mention you're sad or anxious in any way involving this. People will stick to that like glue.

It sucks. But don't throw in the towel just yet. Let's see what results come for the next few months in terms of drugs in the pipeline. Plus you're still very early on and there's no way to know things won't even out.

Reminds me of people like Robin Williams that had Lewy Body Dementia. He had a lot of psychological problems prior too. He reached the breaking point.

 

[Kriszti]

@__nico__

Nico, I read your profile post. I don't want to be a hypocrite because I do get suicidal as well and I don't know what you can take. I just would like to say that member dpdx had horrible hyperacusis and his got a whole lot of better after a while. Many people with hyperacusis and distortions do get better. I know that you've been struggling for way longer with tinnitus than distortions and hyperacusis, but maybe give yourself more time than the end of the month, especially that you say that you were 95% distortion free at the end of the year. If it happened once, it could happen again and permanently. If you can, please hold on.

 

[EDDTEKK]

Dignitas might assist you, if you can show them the history of your issues and how bad your life / condition is.

If there is no more realistic therapy which can stabilize you and reduce the symptoms they might help.

You have to suffer very badly and explain with a clear mind that you don't want to live like this anymore. This is your right and allowed in Germany.

There is a point where it's not anymore humane.

I have talked to Dignitas as well as to the DGHS organization (in fact they cooperate).
It takes 3-4 months after your request with all the documentation and green light.
It costs 5000€ in DGHS.
In Switzerland there is Lifecircle organization. This costs 10.000€.

I will check what I do next. You can apply and never ask for the step but it will give at least a good feeling for your "exit strategy".

However, all the organizations want to see your health history and you should not suffer from physical / mental issue only. Then they might not assist you.

 

[katri]

Hey, I'm dealing with loud hissing which is giving me quite a bit of grief. I've had a long stretch where my ears have been good but my little cousin hasn't learned how to use his indoor voice yet.

I had really just about a good week. There were times where I had increases but I could cope. He frequently slams doors and yells. He's leaving on a plane now. This spike is bending me out of shape even though it's only been like 40 minutes since I woke up. I've also been extremely stressed so that's a contributing factor. It's just this loud hissing came before my tinnitus was really severe before and I don't know what to do.

Any words of encouragement at all would be nice and help me push through a bit.

 

[Ed209]

Hey, I'm dealing with loud hissing which is giving me quite a bit of grief. I've had a long stretch where my ears have been good but my little cousin hasn't learned how to use his indoor voice yet.

I had really just about a good week. There were times where I had increases but I could cope. He frequently slams doors and yells. He's leaving on a plane now. This spike is bending me out of shape even though it's only been like 40 minutes since I woke up. I've also been extremely stressed so that's a contributing factor. It's just this loud hissing came before my tinnitus was really severe before and I don't know what to do.

Any words of encouragement at all would be nice and help me push through a bit.

I would say this was to be expected as you've been so stressed out about the good days that you were having. There will always be that psychological trigger, where something will happen that concerns you, and then it's really easy for your tinnitus to ramp right up. I've lived through this over and over and over again. I feel I could write a book on it.

First of all, don't worry about your ears, they will not have been damaged. The spike will go, but you will likely go through hell worrying about it, as I have many many many many times as well. I would say that this is a common theme amongst all the members here.

Nowadays, I respond significantly better to these triggers because my emotional response is much more proportionate and controlled. Whereas I might have freaked out about an incident for days and weeks (making my tinnitus worse as a consequence), now I mentally move on in short order.

My advice to you is to calm down, watch a movie you enjoy or something, and try to relax. Don't beat yourself up. A certain amount of time will pass and you will forget all about this incident, until the next time, and then one day you'll realise that it has happened so many times that you don't even remember most of them. In other words, what can seem like a humongous deal now will be utterly irrelevant in the near future because you'll be worrying about something else instead. I've already been down this path.

The caveat here, of course, is that some people have severe hyperacusis, and that is different.

Your number one priority has to be to get your anxiety under control.

 

[fred galespi]

Hey, I'm dealing with loud hissing which is giving me quite a bit of grief. I've had a long stretch where my ears have been good but my little cousin hasn't learned how to use his indoor voice yet.

I had really just about a good week. There were times where I had increases but I could cope. He frequently slams doors and yells. He's leaving on a plane now. This spike is bending me out of shape even though it's only been like 40 minutes since I woke up. I've also been extremely stressed so that's a contributing factor. It's just this loud hissing came before my tinnitus was really severe before and I don't know what to do.

Any words of encouragement at all would be nice and help me push through a bit.

Hey, I'm dealing with loud hissing which is giving me quite a bit of grief. I've had a long stretch where my ears have been good but my little cousin hasn't learned how to use his indoor voice yet.

I had really just about a good week. There were times where I had increases but I could cope. He frequently slams doors and yells. He's leaving on a plane now. This spike is bending me out of shape even though it's only been like 40 minutes since I woke up. I've also been extremely stressed so that's a contributing factor. It's just this loud hissing came before my tinnitus was really severe before and I don't know what to do.

Any words of encouragement at all would be nice and help me push through a bit.

The other day when someone mentioned tinnitus, and then came the comments: wish you would shut up, thanks for reminding me, my buddies were in the marines, etc, etc. that was all the help I needed to move on to another subject. If you are the type of person that gets fixated on your hissing then it might be better to try getting it off your mind... do something that you like to do or even something you don't... just to change the focus of your mind. I like a sound generator that has rain sound... I also have that damn hissing and at times it does drive me crazy. But what usually happens is that after a bad day or a couple of bad days I know that I will have some good days ahead.

 

[Shizune]

Where do we draw the line?