'The Noise Got Too Loud, Sorry' — Christopher Neile, 57, Killed Himself Waiting to Go to Dignitas

[Santiago Biagi]

The fact that you have to ask such a question, is an indication that you have no idea what severe sustained tinnitus can do to a person. It is all about understanding!

Michael, first of all, I respect your knowledge and the support you give to others.

That aside, the fact that I don't have or had a severe tinnitus doesn't make me less of a sufferer, I had severe depression all my life and you of all people know how that let's tinnitus affect you deeper.

There's enough doom and gloom in this forum for posting Suicide stories on a SUPPORT SECTION. I talk to many people outside of this site that are dealing with this and the impact this kind of stories have on delicate individuals is huge, just look at the first reply.

If we have to deal with this subject, opening a thread about suicidal thoughts and how to manage and cope is much more rational than just posting a news report of someone taking his life away because of this condition. People should vent, post everything that's going on in their minds or with their body, that's what this section should be in my opinion.

Take care.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Opening a thread about suicidal thoughts and how to manage and cope is much more rational than posting a news report of someone taking his life away becouse of this condition.

Thank you for your kind words. I have had tinnitus for 21 years and I know how debilitating it can be when it is severe. It took me 4 years to habituate to tinnitus for the 2nd time. My tinnitus now fluctuates from: silent, mild, moderate and severe. Fortunately it no longer reaches extreme severe levels that would last for many days. I take clonazepam only when it reaches severe levels and this continues for longer than two or three days.

My reason for posting the additional link about a person that took, his own life was because, someone commented that "some people" like to commit suicide and tinnitus wasn't the reason. Such a comment in my opinion, is absurd insensitive and shows no understanding or empathy towards someone that is clearly in distress.
I have been there and know what tinnitus can do to a person when it reaches severe levels.

All the best
Michael

 

[Bobbie7]

He surely had other factors contributing, but so does the rest of the world that doesn't commit suicide, right?

I understand you mean no disrespect, this is a discussion and I listen (read) carefully to all that is being said.
Of course this person and all others have contributing factors as well when they commit the ultimate act of self-destruction but I am merely suggesting that possibly... this might not have been the main contributing factor even though he stated it. Or...perhaps it was.

After 9 years of being without his wife, he was devastated as the article mentions so obviously this man was grappling with many issues simultaneously. I just wonder what would have happened if his wife were in the picture? Would he have gone and done this or been motivated sufficiently to continue on despite his tinnitus? We can not entirely know what all his issues were.

 

[brownbear]

What are these threads about? Are they helping anyone? Do people want to help each other constructively or not? I'm not saying there aren't valid points here, but is any of it helping YOU. I doubt it.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

this might not have been the main contributing factor even though he stated it. Or...perhaps it was

Read the title of the thread one more time:

'The noise got too loud, sorry.'

What does that tell you? Well, it tells you that the noise got too loud and hence tinnitus was the culprit. Why the need to overthink this?

You seem to be the kind of person - who - if you were a police officer and a crime had been committed, the first thing you would do (without a suspect) would be to head down to the local elderly home, because, more likely than not, those who can barely walk, fit the perfect profile of a criminal who just stole a car... Right?

 

[RicoS]

Unless forum members personally know the individual, I am unclear how posts like this contribute to supporting members who may be struggling with suicidal thoughts. We all are already quite aware of how severe tinnitus can be and the depths of depression and anxiety it can cause.

How is this is helpful for new forum members first struggling with this condition? What support and encouragement does this offer longtime members? It's like posting obituaries on a support forum for cancer.

Editing to add: This is sad and the individual's story and death being reported is tragic. It needs to be told to the general public. But pointing it out to us is a bit like preaching to the choir.

True, but perhaps by reading all your reactions it is also a trigger not to do it because there are more people with T that do not kill them self than there are people with T who do. Also perhaps they will see that killing yourself is just another article in the paper and you are just gone..... There are so many people with T.....some have it very loud but they hope for a cure and endure it as long as they can. Perhaps this guy did not even know about Tinnitus Talk and if he did he perhaps would not kill himself because he see others struggle as well. Which indirectly gives him more strength because he knows he is not the only one.

It sounds hard but for a lot of people it works like this.
1) They have T .... and are crying about it because it feels so bad
2) They read that somebody else also got it.... and feel not so bad anymore because they are not alone
3) They read that somebody else has got it much worse so they think "Pfewww luckily mine can be masked...." and they feel even much better, because they are happy they got it not as bad as the person they read about.

It is not bad...this is how people think sometimes it is a mechanism to deal with you own suffering.

You have to travel 30 miles and you see somebody has a car driving these 30 miles ....so you're jealous you only got a bike
You have to travel 30 miles again and you see someone walking these 30 miles ....so you're glad you have a bike

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Amiel = Amber = gotyoubynuts

I think you can add...

• Atlantis (www.tinnitustalk.com/members/atlantis.3723)
• SweetPeach

...to that list of TinnitusTalk profiles.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I think you can add...

• Atlantis (www.tinnitustalk.com/members/atlantis.3723)
• SweetPeach

...to that list of TinnitusTalk profiles.

Do the two of you have any proof/evidence (besides the fact that those users support suicide)? At this forum, people are not banned for revealing that they do not disapprove when someone commits suicide. What would be a reason to create multiple profiles?

 

[jimH]

I think you can add...

• Atlantis (www.tinnitustalk.com/members/atlantis.3723)
• SweetPeach

...to that list of TinnitusTalk profiles.

Gee,...and to think that I once trusted SweetPeach and asked her (or him) for a date! ....

 

[Bobbie7]

Right?

YUP! Right! hmmm..... however did you know what I would do??? You are astute !

 

[attheedgeofscience]

What would be a reason to create multiple profiles?

What would be a reason? That the profile got banned for other reasons... like... highly offensive posts... repeatedly.

 

[grate_biff]

This is a support forum, yes. But it is also a place to spread information about everything from research (most important topic in my view) to stories like this.

I like this forum because it has room for everything and not like the FB forums where it's all about complaining, crying, comforting and so on. I see the need for that as well, but it hardly leads anywhere.

I´m glad that these stories, tragic as they are, are spread around as much as possible because it will promote awareness of how debilitating this condition can be.

I have no problem believing this guy offed himself because of tinnitus. I can also relate, sympathize and understand why.

I actually think it's the other way around. I think people killing themselves over tinnitus and hyperacusis, as the main reason, is much underreported because it's just too hard for unaffected people to grasp the relentless agony, if not specified in a suicide note.

This mentality is at least what I have met both from family/friends and the medical community. Even the ones who are supposed to be knowledgeable with this affliction. "How big a deal can it be?"

Granted, his suicide note was not very ambiguous either, still people don´t believe it.

It´s like the chicken and the egg, with tinnitus and depression/anxiety I guess!

 

[Bill Bauer]

What would be a reason? That the profile got banned for other reasons... like... highly offensive posts... repeatedly.

I didn't realize that many of the users on your list got banned.

 

[Lex]

This shouldn't be here. What's the support aspect of this?

Of course there are severe cases, but most people in this forum that have a mild/moderate tinnitus will panic on seeing this.

Tinnitus can be managed, depression can be treated.

Last time I checked, this is TINNITUS TALK and not MILD/MODERATE TINNITUS TALK. Living in denial won't make the truth go away, that people do kill themselves over this condition.

I'm not talking about moderate T (which I have). I'm talking about severe cases. And I didn't say chronic pain and T are the same. I said that the effects on the brain are the same, like what's said in Ringing Ears and Chronic Pain Share Unexpected Link.

Don't worry, when I commit suicide, I will specifically mention H as the cause and not T so that you'll feel better about yourself for having only moderate T.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I speak from experience having been through the trauma of dealing with severe unrelenting tinnitus and counselling people with the condition. It does not make me unique for there are many people in this forum that understand that tinnitus can be seriously debilitating when it is severe. I was medically retired from my job because of it.

There is a side of tinnitus that some people do not like to hear or talk about and prefer to sweep it under the carpet and I refuse to do that. Unless the cold hard truths are faced about this condition and what it is capable of doing to a person when it is severe, there will be people that want to trivialise it and play it down as nothing and something that can easily be ignored. The result of this, is that some people in the medical field also adopt this opinion, when people in distress with tinnitus seek their help.

Michael

 

[DebInAustralia]

Tinnitus can be managed, depression can be treated.

Tinnitus can be managed??? err....how?

 

[Michael Leigh]

Tinnitus can be managed??? err....how?

Tinnitus can be managed in a variety of ways. With medication such as antidepressants which can lower anxiety caused by it and thus lowering its perception. Counselling with a Hearing Therapist who's trained in the management and treatment of the condition. Helping to dispel and demystify the negative thinking that surrounds tinnitus. This teaches a the patient not to be afraid of it and to have a more positive outlook on life. White noise generators (sound therapy) can be beneficial. Deep relaxation exercises can also help.

The above treatments can all be helpful but like anything, there are limitations to how effective they can be if tinnitus becomes very severe.

Michael

 

[valeri]

That aside, the fact that I don't have or had a severe tinnitus doesn't make me less of a sufferer

YES IT DOES!

Severe tinnitus will cause severe depression so just because you have severe depression with mild/moderate tinnitus certainly makes you less of a sufferer.

 

[valeri]

@Michael Leigh and @Lex

I really admire your attempts to bring this sort of topic more into perspective but this is like banging your head against brick wall.

The ignorance expressed here by some members is rather disturbing.

What to think of somebody who thinks that those who commit suicide either don't have enough to live for or just simply belong to a group that LIKES to kill themselves (WOW)!

Evil words like that are enough to tip anyone over the edge.

I personally know of many TT members who are suffering really really badly (myself included) but stopped coming or posting here because their suffering is met with such ignorant and dismissive attitude!

Severe cases are better off being swept under the carpet.

Ignorance is blissful!

 

[Fabrikat]

Or, it's not beyond the realm of possibility, that this poor man, being an English speaker, found his way to TT. He may have been a lurker or quite possibly, even a regular participant. He may have come looking for information or support, perhaps read the tales of suicide posted from time to time.

After a while, he would have also absorbed the sense of despair dripping from the words of those that condoned and justified such actions, looked into the future and saw only darkness.

Perhaps TT did indeed serve as a support site that it was intended to be and supported Mr Christopher Neile. All the way to the grave.

 

[vermillion]

Another groundhog day in TT...

 

[Santiago Biagi]

I'd just like to add to my previous post that it wasn't intended to dismiss any severe case, if anyone interpreted that. Rather than stating that this serious issue should be handled more carefully in the view of thousand of new guests every day.

Then again, it's a free forum.

 

[vermillion]

This mentality is at least what I have met both from family/friends and the medical community. Even the ones who are supposed to be knowledgeable with this affliction. "How big a deal can it be?"

This mentality will never ever ever change and this is because tinnitus is an INVISIBLE disease. There are no deterioration symptoms on our appearance. We just look normal. Awareness in general public is pretty challenging. Then again you and me how unaware might be for other rare diseases. It is what it is.

 

[Bill Bauer]

All the way to the grave.

All the way to silence.

 

[Michelle Gyder]

I completely agree. My tinnitus is almost to the point of debilitating. It's a form of torture. I wish I had a MILD form. And yes I can totally understand why someone would commit suicide. I'll never understand why more serious research isn't being done on this.

 

[valeri]

Or, it's not beyond the realm of possibility, that this poor man, being an English speaker, found his way to TT. He may have been a lurker or quite possibly, even a regular participant. He may have come looking for information or support, perhaps read the tales of suicide posted from time to time.

After a while, he would have also absorbed the sense of despair dripping from the words of those that condoned and justified such actions, looked into the future and saw only darkness.

Perhaps TT did indeed serve as a support site that it was intended to be and supported Mr Christopher Neile. All the way to the grave.

Or maybe he was met with ignorant and dismissive words blaming him for not being willing to get better, telling him he needs to control his emotions or that millions live happily after.

Maybe he was told it really isn't a big deal, it's all in his mind, he needs to get over it.

Maybe he was told because "I" did it (and I "know" because I can only hear my tinnitus in bed) he can do it too (every tinnitus is the same).

Maybe he was told he's too negative and stories like his are not welcomed because they will scare others...

Maybe he felt misunderstood and unsupported where he came to look for understanding, support, a kind word....

Maybe he was put down by telling him he's selfish he wants to end it all, maybe he was told it's his depression and not tinnitus.....

Maybe he found himself completely lost in a maze of people who don't have tinnitus and don't understand and those who have it yet still don't understand!

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Michael Leigh and @Lex

I really admire your attempts to bring this sort of topic more into perspective but this is like banging your head against brick wall.

The ignorance expressed here by some members is rather disturbing.

What to think of somebody who thinks that those who commit suicide either don't have enough to live for or just simply belong to a group that LIKES to kill themselves (WOW)!

Evil words like that are enough to tip anyone over the edge.

I personally know of many TT members who are suffering really really badly (myself included) but stopped coming or posting here because their suffering is met with such ignorant and dismissive attitude!

Severe cases are better off being swept under the carpet.

Ignorance is blissful!

@valeri

Thank you for your kind words.

I disagree with your comments but respect your point of views. There are over 20,000 members at Tinnitus Talk, something that the Administrators should be proud of and is an indication they are doing something right.

This world would be a sad place if everyone agreed on every single topic and that's the reason I'm replying to your post. There is nothing like conflict to get people talking. It is the reason television soaps, movies and books always have some sort of conflict or trauma otherwise they would not be interesting. Usually everything works out in the end and the viewer or reader hopefully feels they have been entertained.

This is not always the case in real life particularly when discussing a condition like tinnitus because it is not fiction. Although it is common and most people habituate to it and carry on to lead a fulfilling life. It comes in many forms and intensities and no two people experience it the same. In my opinion, when it is severe and this level of intensity is sustained it can be very debilitating and is comparable to any acute medical condition because of what it can do to a person's mental health. In this state it can make them do something to cause their demise that they wouldn't normally contemplate if they were not so distressed.

One can choose to bury their head in the sand and sweep certain truths under the carpet if they want to and that's entirely their choice. However, as long as I'm able to, I will continue to debate tinnitus and write about it in the best way that I think possible. This includes treatments, coping methods and bringing more awareness of what this condition is like to live with, as long as the powers at tinnitus talk allow me.

I wish you well.
Michael

 

[vermillion]

Or maybe he was met with ignorant and dismissive words blaming him for not being willing to get better, telling him he needs to control his emotions or that millions live happily after.

Maybe he was told it really isn't a big deal, it's all in his mind, he needs to get over it.

Maybe he was told because "I" did it (and I "know" because I can only hear my tinnitus in bed) he can do it too (every tinnitus is the same).

Maybe he felt misunderstood and unsupported where he came to look for understanding, support, a kind word....

Maybe he was put down by telling him he's selfish he wants to end it all, maybe he was told it's his depression and not tinnitus.....

Maybe he found himself completely lost in a maze of people who don't have tinnitus and don't understand and those who have it yet still don't understand!

My oh my.
Thank you so much.
My mother, my doctor, my psychologist and good friends of mine have told me these. They think that I don't do something to improve. It hurts a lot. Really. Thank you for mentioning these points in a such clear manner. I can relate with you 100%. Today my head screams. I don't know what I listen to anymore. High pitch tones, old modem sounds, deep wine glass sound, a simaltenous never ending cacophony. On top of that, ear thumping and hearing distortions that cannot be masked. It all started from a slight ringing. I try really hard but as more as I try to stay active, close to the things that I love, it gets more intrusive. I am sad. I am not stressed anymore. I am getting tired and I don't know how this hellish journey will end. I need help but I start to accept that there's no help for my case.

 

[valeri]

@valeri

Thank you for your kind words valeri,

I disagree with your comments but respect your point of views. There are over 20,000 members at Tinnitus Talk, something that the Administrators should be proud of and is an indication they are doing something right. Other tinnitus forums I visit aren't so large and yet, they have their own unique style and appeal to many.

This world would be a sad place if everyone agreed on every single topic and that's the reason I'm replying to your post. There is nothing like conflict to get people talking. It is the reason television soaps, movies and books always have some sort of conflict or trauma otherwise they would not be interesting. Usually everything works out in the end and the viewer or reader hopefully feels they have been entertained.

This is not always the case in real life particularly when discussing a condition like tinnitus because it is not fiction. Although it is common and most people habituate to it and carry on to lead a fulfilling life. It comes in many forms and intensities and no two people experience it the same. In my opinion, when it is severe and this level of intensity is sustained it can be very debilitating and is comparable to any acute medical condition because of what it can do to a person's state of mind. In this state it can make them do something to cause their demise that they wouldn't normally contemplate if they were not in such a distressed state.

One can choose to bury their head in the sand and sweep certain truths under the carpet if they want to and that's entirely their choice. However, as long as I'm able to, I will continue to debate tinnitus and write about it in the best way that I think possible. This includes treatments, coping methods and bringing more awareness of what this condition is like to live with, as long as the powers at tinnitus talk allow me.

I wish you well.
Michael

Michael, I'm not asking anyone to agree with me or am I forcing my opinion upon others.

All I ever wanted is for members here to be more open minded, understanding and compassionate.

No tinnitus is the same so those with mild tinnitus should spare a thought for those suffering rather than jump down their throats every time it's not a success story.

Personally I'm deeply affected by human suffering of all sorts but when it comes to tinnitus and a story like this it feels like a loss of a dear friend, it feels very close to home.
It saddens me!

Another life lost to this horrible condition yet all tinnitus forum can do is turn it into a project of nitpicking on other possible causes to his death when he clearly stated: it got too loud!

Shame I say and I don't care who agrees or not!

 

[Michael Leigh]

Michael, I'm not asking anyone to agree with me or am I forcing my opinion upon others.

Shame I say and I don't care who agrees or not!

@valeri

I am fully aware that you are not asking me or anyone else to agree with you. You are voicing an opinion and there's nothing wrong with that. I and others are doing the same.

All the best
Michael